Patriots WRs

[Zedia]

So with JuJu gone, and the Aiyuk dream dead, the WR room looks like this:

Kendrick Bourne
Pop Douglas
Ja'Lynn Polk
Javon Baker

KJ Osborn
Jalen Reagor
Tyquan Thornton
Kayshon Boutte
Kawaan Baker
David Wallis
JaQuae Jackson

I'm assuming the top 4 are locks and the rest are fighting for two spots? Pop, Reagor, and Marcus Jones are listed as PRs, but I'm wondering if Pop will be relieved of those duties to save him for WR. Does that give Reagor a leg up? Wallis got a lot of play in the first preseason game and had a couple decent returns.

Please educate me.

 

[cshea]

Bourne will open the season on PUP.

I think Thornton, Osborn and Reagor are next up, with Boutte pushing.

 

[mcpickl]

So with JuJu gone, and the Aiyuk dream dead, the WR room looks like this:

Kendrick Bourne
Pop Douglas
Ja'Lynn Polk
Javon Baker

KJ Osborn
Jalen Reagor
Tyquan Thornton
Kayshon Boutte
Kawaan Baker
David Wallis
JaQuae Jackson

I'm assuming the top 4 are locks and the rest are fighting for two spots? Pop, Reagor, and Marcus Jones are listed as PRs, but I'm wondering if Pop will be relieved of those duties to save him for WR. Does that give Reagor a leg up? Wallis got a lot of play in the first preseason game and had a couple decent returns.

Please educate me.

If Osborn isn't a lock, he's about as close as you can get to being one.

I'd say Reagor/Thornton/Boutte are fighting for one spot, maybe two at best if they leave themselves short elsewhere.

I'd give Reagor the inside track just following the money. Wolf guaranteed him 450K this offseason. The other two guys have no guaranteed money left.

 

[Jungleland]

Bourne is still on PUP, right? I imagine it’s two spots for Reagor/Thornton/Boutte to make the initial 53 if they like what they have there and KB is still a month + away, 1 spot if he’ll be back by week 2-3. Feels like Reagor is closer to a lock than the other two to me. I lean Boutte, it just seems more likely there’s potential still to uncover there while Thornton feels more like what you see is what you get.

 

[chilidawg]

Feels like there's potential for this to be a good group.

 

[P'tucket rhymes with...]

If Osborn isn't a lock, he's about as close as you can get to being one.

I'd say Reagor/Thornton/Boutte are fighting for one spot, maybe two at best if they leave themselves short elsewhere.

I'd give Reagor the inside track just following the money. Wolf guaranteed him 450K this offseason. The other two guys have no guaranteed money left.

I'm inclined to agree with Reagor sticking, but if Wolf makes the decision based on 450K with the team's cap situation, he should be fired into the sun.

 

[jmcc5400]

Smooth!

Edit: Regrettably, that was in reference to a 6-4-3 the Sox just turned, not the Pats’ receiving corps.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

If Osborn isn't a lock, he's about as close as you can get to being one.

I'd say Reagor/Thornton/Boutte are fighting for one spot, maybe two at best if they leave themselves short elsewhere.

I'd give Reagor the inside track just following the money. Wolf guaranteed him 450K this offseason. The other two guys have no guaranteed money left.

They just ate a bunch of dead money to dump Juju. Don’t think 450K will be an issue for a team with tons of cap space.

Reagor seems like he might have an inside track due to his return and ST abilities. Osborn is JAG with bad hands and Thornton/Boutte haven’t shown much yet. Maybe they go the upside play with one of Thornton/Boutte over the special teams usefulness of Reagor. They’re all pretty similarly bad as actual receivers in terms of what they’ve shown in the NFL to date

 

[Saints Rest]

Anyone past the top 4 would be easy to keep on PS.

 

[chilidawg]

Lazar with film review on the WR"s:

Rookie WRs Ja'Lynn Polk (20 routes, three catches, 14 yards) and Javon Baker (22 routes, two catches, 11 yards) ran a combined 42 routes on Thursday night. As one would expect in their preseason debuts, the film was so-so. There's refinement needed in their route running, where they struggled to get defenders off their leverage and get corners to commit upfield to open underneath pathways. They need to push vertically with more haste to get defenders opened up and be more efficient at the top of the route. The game will slow down for them eventually. They'll get better from here.

WR Kayshon Boutte ran some nice routes in this one, even away from the ball. He has a knack for working off the vertical stem on comebacks, stop routes, and slants. His best route was the comebacker, where he got some separation on a 16-yard reception. Boutte is doing whatever he can to make an impression on the coaching staff.

WR Tyquan Thornton's release on his lone target was sudden/bursty. Thanks to his quickness off the line, he reached top speed without much resistance. That was a legit go route.

https://www.patriots.com/news/after-further-review-breaking-down-drake-maye-and-joe-milton-s-preseason-debuts

 

[chilidawg]

Lazar has a 6 man WR unit with Bourne on PUP. Reagor and Thornton make it, Boutte not quite.

Despite all the conversations about the wide receiver corps, this group is solidifying itself already. The first four names on this list are roster locks, with Osborn coming alive in the second week of camp as a reliable base receiver in a run-heavy operation. He can block, played in an adjacent system in Minnesota, and has some size and speed to win downfield. The Pats also prioritize speed on the outside with Reagor and Thornton.
Although he's had his moments in camp, Boutte's skill set is too redundant to Polk, Baker, Osborn, and Bourne once he's healthy. Reagor and Thornton will compete all season for playing time in the 'speed X' role. AVP needs at least one receiver who can clear out space by bringing a vertical stretch element, and those two are the Patriots best options right now. If Bourne comes off the PUP list earlier than expected, the coaching staff must decide between Reagor and Thornton. For now, expect all seven receivers to be under team control until Bourne forces their hand.

https://www.patriots.com/news/lazar-s-53-man-roster-projection-2-0-predicting-the-patriots-initial-roster-following-the-preseason-opener

 

[mcpickl]

I'm inclined to agree with Reagor sticking, but if Wolf makes the decision based on 450K with the team's cap situation, he should be fired into the sun.

I'm not saying he'd make the decision based on 450K.

I'm saying he showed his belief in Reagor by signing and guaranteeing him 450K, while he inherited both Thornton and Boutte(at least as the top decision maker) and they have zero dollars coming their way.

 

[Saints Rest]

Not much size in that WR room. Thornton is the tallest at 6'-2". Not exactly the Smurfs of old, what with Baker and Polk both coming in at 6'-1" but it's not a great array of RZ targets.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Feels like there's potential for this to be a good group.

Only if one of the rookies turns into a stud. There is simply no substitute in today's NFL for not having a stud #1 receiver. We can keep hoping and doing the dance that these guys might figure it out, but until they do, I refuse to hold my breath. It's getting tiresome watching teams with good receivers dump their warm bodies, and the Pats pick them up. Bourne from SF, Parker from Miami, JuJu from KC, Reagor from Philly then Minnesota, Osborne from Minnesota, and on and on. Maybe Miami or San Diego can send us another tight end that never learned how to block along the way.

I'm not getting too excited one way or the other for this season. I firmly believe this is a season where Brissett does the good soldier routine, gets his head kicked in over and over again while they develop Drake Maye away from the games and we end up with a top 3-5 pick in next years' draft and that's when the team spends it's way out of this mess. Just hoping Wolfe/Mayo have it in them when the purse strings get loose, and they can bring in a full squad of their own talent.

 

[Saints Rest]

I feel like stud WRs hatch in the NFL pretty fully-formed -- even Edelman was a monster in his first game when Welker went down with an ACL.

I know the NYG fanbase and writers are already singing Nabers' praises. The fact that neither Polk nor Baker is getting anyone fired up yet, makes me fear that they don't have WR1 potential.

Maybe joint practices this week will show us something.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

I feel like stud WRs hatch in the NFL pretty fully-formed -- even Edelman was a monster in his first game when Welker went down with an ACL.

I know the NYG fanbase and writers are already singing Nabers' praises. The fact that neither Polk nor Baker is getting anyone fired up yet, makes me fear that they don't have WR1 potential.

Maybe joint practices this week will show us something.

Edelman caught 69 balls total in his first 4 years and wasn’t even a priority re-signing when his rookie contract expired. He was hardly “hatched fully formed” although your overall point is pretty accurate.

Generally, elite WR’s show you something early on. It’s the second and third tier guys who sometimes blossom a bit later (like Wes Welker)

It’s unlikely, given Baker and Polk aren’t really turning heads in an “obviously elite” kind of way, that either of them will turn into a high end 1 but that was always a long shot based on their college resumes. But they could still end up productive starters.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Edelman caught 69 balls total in his first 4 years and wasn’t even a priority re-signing when his rookie contract expired. He was hardly “hatched fully formed” although your overall point is pretty accurate.

Generally, elite WR’s show you something early on. It’s the second and third tier guys who sometimes blossom a bit later (like Wes Welker)

It’s unlikely, given Baker and Polk aren’t really turning heads in an “obviously elite” kind of way, that either of them will turn into a high end 1 but that was always a long shot based on their college resumes. But they could still end up productive starters.

Edelman is the opposite of all this, so I agree. He flashed in a game when no one knew who he was going to be and had a great game. He had like 800 yards in his first 4 years combined. He's the model for a guy who grinds and earns a spot.

 

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

I feel like stud WRs hatch in the NFL pretty fully-formed -- even Edelman was a monster in his first game when Welker went down with an ACL.

I know the NYG fanbase and writers are already singing Nabers' praises. The fact that neither Polk nor Baker is getting anyone fired up yet, makes me fear that they don't have WR1 potential.

Maybe joint practices this week will show us something.

The whole camp has been a lot of talk of these two making plays all over the field. Polk already looks like a "throw it in my area and I'll come down with it " type of receiver while Baker has a little more flash. Maybe I'm in the minority but both of these guys have me fired up.

 

[ShaneTrot]

It's wild to think about what you can get out of a rookie WR. Puka Nacua came out of nowhere last year but first-rounder Quentin Johnston was considered a disappointment after only catching 38 balls (more than Harry ever caught in a season). Last year was considered a below-average WR class, the second-rounders were reasonably productive:
Mingo, Carolina 43 receptions
Reed, GB 64 receptions
Rice, KC 79 receptions
Mims, Denver, 22 receptions
Obviously, the situation has a lot to do with WR production. I wouldn't expect Rice to catch 79 balls from Jones/Zappe in the 2023 Pats offense.

 

[Cellar-Door]

[\

It's wild to think about what you can get out of a rookie WR. Puka Nacua came out of nowhere last year but first-rounder Quentin Johnston was considered a disappointment after only catching 38 balls (more than Harry ever caught in a season). Last year was considered a below-average WR class, the second-rounders were reasonably productive:
Mingo, Carolina 43 receptions
Reed, GB 64 receptions
Rice, KC 79 receptions
Mims, Denver, 22 receptions
Obviously, the situation has a lot to do with WR production. I wouldn't expect Rice to catch 79 balls from Jones/Zappe in the 2023 Pats offense.

Receptions is generally a crappy way to measure rookie WRs because it doesn't tell you about target competition or efficiency either. QJ was horrendous but he was the only skill player on their roster who was healthy for all 17 games and they forced him into snaps. He basically had the same type of performance as rookie N'Keal Harry, he just played 10 more games on a team willing to give him a ton of snaps because they stunk, where the Patriots were a playoff team who went out and added a WR to replace him.

 

[Justthetippett]

Edelman caught 69 balls total in his first 4 years and wasn’t even a priority re-signing when his rookie contract expired. He was hardly “hatched fully formed” although your overall point is pretty accurate.

Generally, elite WR’s show you something early on. It’s the second and third tier guys who sometimes blossom a bit later (like Wes Welker)

It’s unlikely, given Baker and Polk aren’t really turning heads in an “obviously elite” kind of way, that either of them will turn into a high end 1 but that was always a long shot based on their college resumes. But they could still end up productive starters.

If either ends up as a high end 2 that's a success. The opportunity they have is to develop great chemistry with Maye so that each gets the most out of each other. Not so unlike someone like Branch, who gained the trust of Brady, developed a great rapport and was better in NE than he was elsewhere. For a true high end 1 they'll almost certainly have to go after one of the very top guys in the draft.

 

[Cellar-Door]

After 2 games.... Thornton is making this roster, they're running him with the 1s, he looks better, and..... Javon Baker looks like he has no idea what he's doing in terms of routes, he's falling down, he has had a couple where it sure looks like he ran the wrong route.

 

[P'tucket rhymes with...]

After 2 games.... Thornton is making this roster, they're running him with the 1s, he looks better, and..... Javon Baker looks like he has no idea what he's doing in terms of routes, he's falling down, he has had a couple where it sure looks like he ran the wrong route.

What say SoSH on the odds of getting Baker through to the practice squad? Seems like he's shown a little too much to get there, although they're going to have to let someone else on the bubble go if they keep him on the 53.

 

[DJnVa]

I think there's about a 0% chance Baker doesn't make the roster. They're trying to rebuild the offense, and they're not going to give up on him after one camp without seeing what he can do when the games count.

 

[Zedia]

Even if he was terrible (I don’t think he’s been terrible from reports) there’s no way a 4th rounder is going to the PS.

 

[Cellar-Door]

What say SoSH on the odds of getting Baker through to the practice squad? Seems like he's shown a little too much to get there, although they're going to have to let someone else on the bubble go if they keep him on the 53.

Baker is making the roster, it's just his not being ready (not that surprising) means they need a deep threat more, which give Thornton a big edge on Boutte. That's the guy I think they try to sneak to the PS.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

It is very rare for a 4th rounder to not make the roster (league wide not just in New England)

Baker will make it this year regardless of how bad he might be.

 

[chilidawg]

It is very rare for a 4th rounder to not make the roster (league wide not just in New England)

Baker will make it this year regardless of how bad he might be.

I'm not sure where this idea that he's been bad is coming from. From accounts I've read he's certainly shown flashes, maybe lacking some consistency. Not far off from where you'd expect a low floor/high ceiling 4th round pick to be.

 

[Garshaparra]

I'm not sure where this idea that he's been bad is coming from. From accounts I've read he's certainly shown flashes, maybe lacking some consistency. Not far off from where you'd expect a low floor/high ceiling 4th round pick to be.

In the preseason games, Baker's been getting tough targets, and missing them. 3 of 8, only catching short ones. He's been in the right place consistently though, just gotta come down with some.

 

[DJnVa]

Yeah, whatever the line is that crosses from SSS to an issue, he’s nowhere near it.

 

[Cellar-Door]

In the preseason games, Baker's been getting tough targets, and missing them. 3 of 8, only catching short ones. He's been in the right place consistently though, just gotta come down with some.

he definitely has not been in the right place consistently. Nothing that concerning given he's a raw rookie, but he's falling on his breaks, he ran like 20 yards out of bounds on a go route, there was one (pass went to Polk) where he pretty clearly ran the wrong route (Maye checked, so my guess is he missed the check or didn't check to the same play as everyone else). He looks pretty raw out there. He had a couple decent ones, also the nice deep ball he didn't catch was a good route, but he missed the timing, slowed down when he looked back at the QB instead of up for the ball. Little things, but important.

Overall, lot of rookie mistakes, he's shown some potential though, just not looking like a guy who will be getting many snaps right away.

 

[The Mort Report]

he definitely has not been in the right place consistently. Nothing that concerning given he's a raw rookie, but he's falling on his breaks, he ran like 20 yards out of bounds on a go route, there was one (pass went to Polk) where he pretty clearly ran the wrong route (Maye checked, so my guess is he missed the check or didn't check to the same play as everyone else). He looks pretty raw out there. He had a couple decent ones, also the nice deep ball he didn't catch was a good route, but he missed the timing, slowed down when he looked back at the QB instead of up for the ball. Little things, but important.

Overall, lot of rookie mistakes, he's shown some potential though, just not looking like a guy who will be getting many snaps right away.

Yeah it's weird that people seem to forget that these guys, outside of the elite and some outliers, struggle with the jump in competition. It's a normal progression, and it's just camp, it's going to get harder. It's normal to take time to adjust, they have to change how they practice. They'd out-athlete everyone until now. What makes most draft picks successful is realizing they need to put in the work, not to try to brute force physical ability.

I like Baker's moxie, and he seems to be realizing he can't overpower everyone anymore, and hopefully he takes that to put in the mental work due to his chip on the shoulder attitude

 

[GB5]

Bourne will go on IR to start the year. Baker is safe. If he is not dressing in the 4 games or so that Bourne is out, then when he returns, Baker will get phony IR’ed and it will be a red shirt season,

 

[NextBigThing8184]

Bourne will go on IR to start the year. Baker is safe. If he is not dressing in the 4 games or so that Bourne is out, then when he returns, Baker will get phony IR’ed and it will be a red shirt season,

Every year people toss around the idea of “Foxboro flu” and it’s never a thing.

The worst thing you can do for a rookie who needs development is to put him on IR where he isn’t going to actually get chances to develop.

A team which isn’t going anywhere which has plenty of holes on its roster should have no issue keeping their 4th round pick around without resorting to faking injuries

 

[Cellar-Door]

https://www.patriots.com/news/a-position-by-position-rundown-of-the-patriots-roster-at-the-conclusion-of-training-camp

Lazar says Thornton is definitely making the roster and highly likely to be the starting X (Taylor Kyles says he's starting, and other beat writers think the same).

Has Reagor beating out Boutte for the final roster spot due to ST value

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

I was at a restaurant / bar last night which was playing some espn fantasy marathon … an endless scroll of rankings at each position which was fairly depressing as a Patriots fan. We did have the #48 WR (Pop), and I believe, the #18 RB in Rham. FWIW (not much).

 

[mikcou]

https://www.patriots.com/news/a-position-by-position-rundown-of-the-patriots-roster-at-the-conclusion-of-training-camp

Lazar says Thornton is definitely making the roster and highly likely to be the starting X (Taylor Kyles says he's starting, and other beat writers think the same).

Has Reagor beating out Boutte for the final roster spot due to ST value

Seemed pretty clear over the past couple of weeks that Thornton was a clear make. For Boutte, seems like its really a question of which developmental guy (or perhaps two) out of him, Hasty, and Bell they want to keep, which presumably is whoever is least likely to make it to the practice squad as it seems hard for any of them to get any sort of meaningful playing time.

I know the Pats have historically been 5-6 WRs on the roster, but they also often carried 8 or 9 RB/FB/TEs. That could conceivably be 5 or 6 this year.

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

Jahan Dotson (and a 5th) traded by Commanders to Eagles for a 3rd and 7ths.

Not that he was surrounded by the 2007 Pats, but Dotson was pretty shitty last year. No way no how would I have given up a Pats 3rd or even 4th for Dotson.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

I hope some journalist with the All-22 takes a look at Ja'Lynn Polk's snaps and routes this week and writes a piece about it. He only had one target and one catch on 35 snaps. But I'd love to know more about things like how many of his snaps were actually passing plays, what types of routes they had him running, whether he struggled to get open or was just mainly used as a decoy or 3rd option, etc.

I'm not reading much good or bad into any of it. But I'd like to understand better how the team is trying to integrate him into the offense. 35 snaps (only a couple less than Osborn, Douglas, and Thornton) at least suggests some level of confidence from the coaching staff.

 

[DJnVa]

I hope some journalist with the All-22 takes a look at Ja'Lynn Polk's snaps and routes this week and writes a piece about it. He only had one target and one catch on 35 snaps. But I'd love to know more about things like how many of his snaps were actually passing plays, what types of routes they had him running, whether he struggled to get open or was just mainly used as a decoy or 3rd option, etc.

I'm not reading much good or bad into any of it. But I'd like to understand better how the team is trying to integrate him into the offense. 35 snaps (only a couple less than Osborn, Douglas, and Thornton) at least suggests some level of confidence from the coaching staff.

I'm 99% sure Lazar will do something like this.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

I'm 99% sure Lazar will do something like this.

I hope so. He was the guy I was thinking of most.

 

[Jimbodandy]

I hope some journalist with the All-22 takes a look at Ja'Lynn Polk's snaps and routes this week and writes a piece about it. He only had one target and one catch on 35 snaps. But I'd love to know more about things like how many of his snaps were actually passing plays, what types of routes they had him running, whether he struggled to get open or was just mainly used as a decoy or 3rd option, etc.

I'm not reading much good or bad into any of it. But I'd like to understand better how the team is trying to integrate him into the offense. 35 snaps (only a couple less than Osborn, Douglas, and Thornton) at least suggests some level of confidence from the coaching staff.

I wasn't watching him closely enough downfield to see what he was doing, nor we were really passing that much anyway. But I didn't catch him blocking with a very nasty demeanor a few times. I think that he was an asset to the run game yesterday.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

I wasn't watching him closely enough downfield to see what he was doing, nor we were really passing that much anyway. But I didn't catch him blocking with a very nasty demeanor a few times. I think that he was an asset to the run game yesterday.

Yup, good call. I think I remember Mayo talking about his blocking as an asset during preseason too. I wouldn't be surprised if the coaching staff wants him on the field in a lot of running situations.

 

[Saints Rest]

Polk had a really good block on the Rham's first 14 yd run, completely took the DB out of the play allowing Rham to gain the edge.

 

[DJnVa]

I hope so. He was the guy I was thinking of most.

He tweeted today about looking at the defensive film, so I imagine that might be first.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

Lazar on our question

#Patriots WR Ja'Lynn Polk was open often on this film. He should've gotten the ball more. Good news is that it's on tape now, so Jacoby and the coaching staff will look for him more next week.

View: https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1833231208492503347