Patriots waived WR Kenbrell Thompkins

JohnnyK

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All sources I can find mention a 24h waiver period, so he should have already passed through, right?
For some reason there is nothing in the NFL rulebook about waivers.
 

soxfan121

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JohnnyK said:
All sources I can find mention a 24h waiver period, so he should have already passed through, right?
For some reason there is nothing in the NFL rulebook about waivers.
 
For some reason, Sunday doesn't count. Which I admit is weird, but all the media guys in my feed concur with my 121-brother-from-another-mother.
 

richgedman'sghost

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j44thor said:
 
Nice trolling.  Deion Branch career high is 78 rec for 998 yards.  Surely you aren't that obtuse.
You jump into threads and make alot of statements without doing any research.  It really is not that hard to back up some of your assertions with facts. For example, take a look at what mullysavage accomplished a few posts below yours for inspiration.  Or are you only into the hotsportstakes?   
 

mulluysavage

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soxfan121 said:
 
Excellent work, mulluysavage. Perhaps include TE's and re-calculate the percentages? Watson, Graham, Gronk & Hernandez would change the %'s pretty dramatically, I think.
 
I agree it would probably change the % dramatically. I'm specifically focusing on WRs, because I'm interested in what looks to me like a popular narrative: "the Pat's aren't good at developing WRs" - specifically WRs, not TEs. This is a view I find seductive.
 
Perhaps this narrative is flawed, simply because the Pats have had top-ranked passing offenses regardless of this and, it's because of 1) their use TEs as receivers, and 2) Good FA pickups (Moss, Welker, et. al.)
 
Edit: wording of first point.
 

DavidTai

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JohnnyK said:
Come to think about it, it kinda makes sense as the claiming team cannot open up the necessary roster spot on gameday.
 
Although... how does this affect teams playing on Monday Night?
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Please start new thread on WR history. Also some comments are close to derailing a decent topic. Don't make me close this thread twice in two days.
 

DJnVa

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lexrageorge said:
When discussing David Givens, keep in mind that his career ended 5 games after he left the Patriots due to a very serious knee injury that was basically horrible luck. During his time with the Pats, he looked as if he was on his way to a decent career.
 
Yeah, I really liked Givens.
 

 
 

TomTerrific

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I found this quote from Cincinnati Enquirer football beat writer Paul Daugherty amusing:
 
"I listened to WEEI on the two-hour drive from Providence, Boston's all-sports station. The two hosts talked the ENTIRE TIME about the Patriots releasing former UC wideout Kenbrell Thompkins. That's two more hours than anyone ever talked about him here."
 

DJnVa

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soxfan121 said:
 
No, you said every team had drafted a Givens in the 7th round...and then provided a list of 3rd-7th round picks. That doesn't "prove your case".
 
You could have admitted your initial claim turned out - once you researched it - to not be true but you've instead shifted the goal posts to 3rd-7th round AND made another unsupported assertion about something that can, if researched, be proven.
 
All I'm asking is that you back up your theories with evidence. It's been a basic requirement at SoSH for years, whether here, the main board, RMPS...everywhere. When you make an assertion, you need to show your work. 
 
For the record, only 6 players drafted in the 7th or 8th round since 2002 have more catches than Givens: Colston, Kevin Walter, Steve Johnson, Crayton, Edelman, Curry.
 
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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DrewDawg said:
 
For the record, only 6 players drafted in the 7th or 8th round since 2002 have more catches than Givens: Colston, Kevin Walter, Steve Johnson, Crayton, Edelman, Curry.
 
 
Good stuff.
 
soxfan121 said:
 
Excellent work, mulluysavage. Perhaps include TE's and re-calculate the percentages? Watson, Graham, Gronk & Hernandez would change the %'s pretty dramatically, I think.
 
Out of curiosity, I looked into this question over the 2002-2013 time frame. To keep things simple, I only looked at total receiving yards as a general measure of "production." All yard #s are courtesy of pro-football-reference.com, player source from memory of from wikipedia (I must have looked Sammy Aiken on WIkipedia at least 5 times, and I still can't remember now if he was a trade or FA). I didn't split out players that Belichick drafted from those he inherited, but just looked at how each player joined the team.
 
Graphs help, so here are my findings (apologies if my google drive links are crap)
 
WR production: draft vs. trade vs. free agent (link):
No surprise, tons of production via trade from Moss & Welker, good draft production recently (Dobson/Thompkins) and during the glory years (Branch/Givens/Brown). Various depth signing veterans round out the WR corps each year, providing 0% to 25% of total yardage.
 
Of course, WR's aren't the only targets of Brady's passes. Let's see how many of the total team passing yards are coming from WRs versus TEs and RBs.
 
Production: WR vs. TE. vs. RB (link):
Again, this seems plausible. WRs are responsible for the bulk of the team receiving yards, with Gronk & Hernandez leading to a spike in TE yards in 2010. That little spike in 2006 was Ben Watson's best year. RBs fill out the remaining yards with 10%-20% each year. (Having looked through the data, I had forgotten just how many of these yards Kevin Faulk was responsible for during this period)
 
Finally, let's ignore position and look at where the production is coming from. Is Bill drafting good talent, is he trading for it, or buying it on the free market?
 
Total Production: draft vs. trade vs. free agent (link):
Lots of mercenaries in 2002, with drafted players (largely Branch, Givens, Brown, Faulk and Watson) providing the bulk of production in 2003-2007. Moss and Welker blow things up in 2007; Gronk, Hernandez and Edleman show a return to drafted talent in 2010; and nearly all production comes from the draft in 2013 following the loss of Welker.
 

mulluysavage

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Ed Hillel said:
My heart is racing, any news???
We are still waiting to hear back from Ken as to whether he is signing on to sosh to be his official fan club. Stay tuned...
 

soxhop411

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“@AlbertBreer: Kenbrell Thompkins claimed off waivers by the Raiders, per source.”
 

Ed Hillel

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It's actually not even funny. Guy turns his life around and ends up with the Raiders.
 
Point Belichick, in his endless quest to ruin lives.
 
Dec 10, 2012
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DrewDawg said:
 
For the record, only 6 players drafted in the 7th or 8th round since 2002 have more catches than Givens: Colston, Kevin Walter, Steve Johnson, Crayton, Edelman, Curry.
 
There have been zero draft choices of any kind, at any position, with any success, in the 8th round, since 2002.
 

mulluysavage

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Dan to Theo to Ben said:
There have been zero draft choices of any kind, at any position, with any success, in the 8th round, since 2002.
Let's rename UDFA "8th round."
 

DJnVa

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Dan to Theo to Ben said:
There have been zero draft choices of any kind, at any position, with any success, in the 8th round, since 2002.
 
True dat. I originally had a longer time frame where the 8th round was included.
 
 

kenneycb

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TomTerrific said:
I found this quote from Cincinnati Enquirer football beat writer Paul Daugherty amusing:
 
"I listened to WEEI on the two-hour drive from Providence, Boston's all-sports station. The two hosts talked the ENTIRE TIME about the Patriots releasing former UC wideout Kenbrell Thompkins. That's two more hours than anyone ever talked about him here."
How the hell did it take him 2 hours from Providence?
 

dcmissle

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mpx42 said:
Every WR who has come in here the last 15 years was presented with the opportunity of a lifetime. Precious few took advantage of it. I feel badly for none of these guys.
 

Stitch01

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KT came in as a barely recruited UDFA and has turned it into at least a two year career in the league.  That's not nothing.
 

soxfan121

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Stitch01 said:
KT came in as a barely recruited UDFA and has turned it into at least a two year career in the league.  That's not nothing.
 
He'll probably do well in Oakland. Their WR are banged up and old friend Andre Holmes can help him acclimate. 
 

caesarbear

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So Thompkins had a very good game. I know there's a lot of Tymes fans but Thompkins can run more than one route and had earned some measure of rapport with Brady. Seems like he would have been great insurance for LaFell.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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caesarbear said:
So Thompkins had a very good game. I know there's a lot of Tymes fans but Thompkins can run more than one route and had earned some measure of rapport with Brady. Seems like he would have been great insurance for LaFell.
 
He has caught 14 passes on 34 targets for 207 yards and 0 TDs with Oakland.  Maybe we can look past one game before we start deciding this was a significant mistake.  And if LaFell goes down youre definitely going to see Amendola before you would see Thompkins.
 

caesarbear

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He's also got Derek Carr throwing to him. Not saying that we missed out on a future probowler, just that finding receivers Brady clicks with is not so easy.
 

lexrageorge

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caesarbear said:
He's also got Derek Carr throwing to him. Not saying that we missed out on a future probowler, just that finding receivers Brady clicks with is not so easy.
Another myth that's too easily accepted because the media says so.  
 

Silverdude2167

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caesarbear said:
He's also got Derek Carr throwing to him. Not saying that we missed out on a future probowler, just that finding receivers Brady clicks with is not so easy.
Did Brady even click with him? He did not get a ton of targets this year.
 

caesarbear

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lexrageorge said:
Another myth that's too easily accepted because the media says so.  
Said as a shorthand for receivers working out with the Patriots. I'm not talking about a Felgerism. Put it this way, outside of Edelman, Thompkins was the most successful rookie pick-up since Givens and Branch. And it's not like Edelman was Brady's binky to start with. Thompkins was a chance to mold a dependable receiver that would have cost much less than Amendola.
 

Stitch01

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Dobson was better than Thompkins last year.
 
Id probably rather have Thompkins starting than Tyms if LaFell got hurt tomorrow, but they'd play Amendola first, Dobson was still available when they made the Thompkins move, and Tyms brings something as a fifth option that Thompkins doesn't with his deep threat ability.
 
Thompkins is not quite replacement level, but he is pretty fungible, Im not going to worry about losing him in a roster crunch and the depth at WR was fine when the move was made.
 

mt8thsw9th

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caesarbear said:
Thompkins was a chance to mold a dependable receiver that would have cost much less than Amendola.
 
No, he wouldn't have cost less because you have to factor in the dead money from cutting Amendola. And factor in they would've needed to make a roster move this week to get a punt returner. And cutting Amendola means they got rid of a receiver that could actually play special teams for someone that could not. Just a bad idea all around.
 
Thompkins was the definition of fungible that went on to have a decent game for another team. What does it have to do with anything?
 

amarshal2

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caesarbear said:
, Thompkins was the most successful rookie pick-up since Givens and Branch.
He had fewer receptions and yards than Dobson last year in more snaps (pretty sure on last bit). At the very least you need to recognize Dobson here as equal or greater.

Edit: beaten to it.

To add to the "Tyms provides something different" they've also had him playing gunner on ST.
 

caesarbear

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Next year would be the first to allow cutting Amendola and saving a little cap space. With Dobson's broken foot screw-up leaving him as a question mark and nothing from Boyce, just seems like Thompkins would have been a safe and cheap option is all.
 

Ed Hillel

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caesarbear said:
Next year would be the first to allow cutting Amendola and saving a little cap space. With Dobson's broken foot screw-up leaving him as a question mark and nothing from Boyce, just seems like Thompkins would have been a safe and cheap option is all.
 
Amendola isn't worth cutting for 1.6 million in savings, particularly since the Pats aren't up against it as far as the cap is concerned.
 

changer591

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I love the 2 months of total silence regarding KT, and then after a single decent game, suddenly he was the best rookie WR since Branch and Givens.  
 

caesarbear

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Jan 28, 2007
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Ed Hillel said:
 
Amendola isn't worth cutting for 1.6 million in savings, particularly since the Pats aren't up against it as far as the cap is concerned.

 
 
No but they might be if they want Revis and McCourty and a Brady bonus.
 
 

changer591 said:
I love the 2 months of total silence regarding KT, and then after a single decent game, suddenly he was the best rookie WR since Branch and Givens.  

 
I guess I'll go back to being silent then.
 

kenneycb

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caesarbear said:
Said as a shorthand for receivers working out with the Patriots. I'm not talking about a Felgerism. Put it this way, outside of Edelman, Thompkins was the most successful rookie pick-up since Givens and Branch. And it's not like Edelman was Brady's binky to start with. Thompkins was a chance to mold a dependable receiver that would have cost much less than Amendola.
But that's not a Brady issue. Which of the drafted WRs have gone on to do much of anything in the league? Probably Tate who is more of a KR than a WR.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Ed Hillel said:
Amendola isn't worth cutting for 1.6 million in savings, particularly since the Pats aren't up against it as far as the cap is concerned.
 
Another reason why Amendola most likely will stick around -- Edelman is walking a fairly similar path to Welker's, including the nicks, bruises, and now concussions. Can't think of a better backup to the BurgerTyme than Amendola.
 

Pxer

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Stitch01 said:
I think there's a decent chance he's a post June 1st cut
I'd be surprised if this DIDN'T happen.
 
It would also be nice to hit on a 1st-round WR next year. 8)
 

Stitch01

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I thought it was a lock until I looked at the numbers again, there's an argument to just keep him as Edelman insurance for '15 and then cut him in '16 given the massive questions around Dobson.  If he's cut you have Edelman/LaFell and whole bunch of questions at WR going into the season.  Amendola hasn't worked out as expected, and (IMO) the dropoff from Edelman was noticeable Sunday, but he knows the offense and can step in and be serviceable.  Savings are more material next year if he's a post June 1st cut, although that obviously keeps some dead money on the 16 cap.
 
Will be pretty shocked if the Pats use a first rounder on a WR.