Patriots Training Camp 2022

BaseballJones

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On a good note, I've seen a lot of positives about Marcus Jones who could really be a ballhawk even without elite speed and tools

View: https://twitter.com/kdthompson5/status/1559915859467976706
Marcus Jones' 40 time is listed at 4.38, which is elite speed.

On a different note, trying to guess this team's 53-man roster is IMPOSSIBLE. This was my guess at it using this tool. I had some incredibly difficult cuts, like Hoyer (who I'd cut easily but who I think BB is hesitant to cut), JJ Taylor, K. Harris, Hines, Wilkerson, Ray, Perkins, Mitchell, and Hafford. They're going to have to figure out who in the world they can manage to sneak onto the PS because they're going to end up cutting some pretty good players.

QB (2) M.Jones, B.Zappe
RB (4) D.Harris, R.Stevenson, P.Strong, T.Montgomery
WR (7) J.Meyers, D.Parker, K.Bourne, T.Thornton, N.Agholor, T.Nixon, M.Slater
TE (3) H.Henry, J.Smith, D.Asiasi
C (2) D.Andrews, J.Ferentz
G (3) M.Onwenu, C.Strange, Y.Durant
T (4) I.Wynn, T.Brown, Y.Cajuste, J.Herron
DE (1) D.Wise
DT (5) L.Guy, C.Barmore, C.Davis, D.Godchaux, S.Roberts
ILB(4) J.Bentley, C.McGrone, M.Wilson, R.McMillan
OLB(3) M.Judon, A.Jennings, J.Uche
CB (7) J.Mills, Jo.Jones, Ja.Jones, M.Bryant, J.Bethel, S.Wade, M.Jones
SS (3) K.Dugger, A.Phillips, J.Bledsoe
FS (2) D.McCourty, J.Peppers
ST (3) N.Folk, J.Bailey, J.Cardona

Total players: 53
 

Jungleland

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The knock on Marcus is height - he's listed at 5'8", which seems to be NFL for not quite 5'8" haha.

Lot of chatter on the patriots.com feed about Bourne having a bad summer - feels early to me to worry, but feels like it's getting to the point of being something to keep an eye on.

Hope Wilkerson is OK, he deserves a roster spot somewhere.
 

Gash Prex

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Sorry I got my CB "Jones" mixed up - I was thinking about Jack Jones who doesn't have elite speed.

Now we just need Tebucky Jones to show up and we can corner the market on CB with Jones.
 

Gash Prex

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The knock on Marcus is height - he's listed at 5'8", which seems to be NFL for not quite 5'8" haha.

Lot of chatter on the patriots.com feed about Bourne having a bad summer - feels early to me to worry, but feels like it's getting to the point of being something to keep an eye on.

Hope Wilkerson is OK, he deserves a roster spot somewhere.
I think you are right to keep an eye on Bourne - though given his production last year and chemistry with Mac its hard to see him getting cut.

View: https://twitter.com/MarkDanielsPJ/status/1559918901823168512
 

Jungleland

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Marcus Jones' 40 time is listed at 4.38, which is elite speed.

On a different note, trying to guess this team's 53-man roster is IMPOSSIBLE. This was my guess at it using this tool. I had some incredibly difficult cuts, like Hoyer (who I'd cut easily but who I think BB is hesitant to cut), JJ Taylor, K. Harris, Hines, Wilkerson, Ray, Perkins, Mitchell, and Hafford. They're going to have to figure out who in the world they can manage to sneak onto the PS because they're going to end up cutting some pretty good players.

QB (2) M.Jones, B.Zappe
RB (4) D.Harris, R.Stevenson, P.Strong, T.Montgomery
WR (7) J.Meyers, D.Parker, K.Bourne, T.Thornton, N.Agholor, T.Nixon, M.Slater
TE (3) H.Henry, J.Smith, D.Asiasi
C (2) D.Andrews, J.Ferentz
G (3) M.Onwenu, C.Strange, Y.Durant
T (4) I.Wynn, T.Brown, Y.Cajuste, J.Herron
DE (1) D.Wise
DT (5) L.Guy, C.Barmore, C.Davis, D.Godchaux, S.Roberts
ILB(4) J.Bentley, C.McGrone, M.Wilson, R.McMillan
OLB(3) M.Judon, A.Jennings, J.Uche
CB (7) J.Mills, Jo.Jones, Ja.Jones, M.Bryant, J.Bethel, S.Wade, M.Jones
SS (3) K.Dugger, A.Phillips, J.Bledsoe
FS (2) D.McCourty, J.Peppers
ST (3) N.Folk, J.Bailey, J.Cardona

Total players: 53
Most notably compared to Cox and Bedard, you don't have the special teams specialists or Hoyer, you have an extra WR, and you have both Wade and Bryant making it whereas they had only one of the two. I think Hoyer is harder to do what they did last year with given the cap (and Zappe is incredibly not ready it appears), so it seems likely he'll make it. I like the idea of trying to get Kevin Harris to the practice squad. Is Asiasi eligible? I wonder if he wouldn't be a good guy to try to stash for a week or two until injuries allow some more flexibility. (The big question of Henry's health aside.)
 

BaseballJones

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Most notably compared to Cox and Bedard, you don't have the special teams specialists or Hoyer, you have an extra WR, and you have both Wade and Bryant making it whereas they had only one of the two. I think Hoyer is harder to do what they did last year with given the cap (and Zappe is incredibly not ready it appears), so it seems likely he'll make it. I like the idea of trying to get Kevin Harris to the practice squad. Is Asiasi eligible? I wonder if he wouldn't be a good guy to try to stash for a week or two until injuries allow some more flexibility. (The big question of Henry's health aside.)
Well, I have Bethel and Slater, their two best ST players who are basically just ST specialists.

I'd love it if they can keep Kevin Harris somehow. Asiasi? Not sure, but I like the TE from Michigan St (Sokol) and hope he makes the PS.
 

Shelterdog

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Well, I have Bethel and Slater, their two best ST players who are basically just ST specialists.

I'd love it if they can keep Kevin Harris somehow. Asiasi? Not sure, but I like the TE from Michigan St (Sokol) and hope he makes the PS.
They will almost certainly have four coverage specialists not two, like they always do and like almost every team always does in the current NFL
 

Super Nomario

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They will almost certainly have four coverage specialists not two, like they always do and like almost every team always does in the current NFL
Yeah I would expect Cody Davis to make the squad again, and the beat writers seem to think Brenden Schooler is getting the Brandon King treatment. I could see them trying to waive Schooler in the initial cutdowns and then add him before game 1 though.
 

Shelterdog

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Yeah I would expect Cody Davis to make the squad again, and the beat writers seem to think Brenden Schooler is getting the Brandon King treatment. I could see them trying to waive Schooler in the initial cutdowns and then add him before game 1 though.
I heard Jalen Elliot is also getting some good looks and has played coverage units in the past, another person to consider.

Not sure what machinations they use to get to the final 53 and don't understand the practice squad rules any more but come game day some combo of four of Daivs, School, King, Bethel, Slater, and perhaps even a ST stud who gets cut by another franchise will be out there.

EDIT: Am I hallucinating or did someone say DeMarcus Mitchell was getting some special teams attentions? He's particularly big for a core four ST guy so not sure that makes sense.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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RE: Hoyer - I can see him taking the Bolden route of “cut but don’t leave town” to allow someone else to make the initial 53 then get IR’d— I believe they went that route with him last year as well (with the F&M types up in arms “they are only going into the season with 1 QB!! BB has lost it !!”)
 

Jungleland

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Of your list, Nixon seems worth a spot but only if there's a trade, and I think Wade, Bryant, and Mitchell are fighting for 1 spot where you have 2 of them. 3 Tight ends maybe not a lock to start the season. I think if 53 was today, they'd be crossing their fingers that all of Nixon, Wilkerson, and Wade go unclaimed. The beat projections also left Bledsoe off, which I found surprising with how positive of a camp he's having.
 

GB5

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I think it’s a very long shot that Hoyer gets cut. I don’t think Hoyer can be a credible starting QB in the NFL if an injury occurs. However Zappee is nowhere even close to being considered an option in a real NFL game. Last year the backup QB with Hoyer was Stidham, who at least appeared to have some NFL qualities. Additionally it wouldn’t surprise me if Mac leans on Hoyer frequently as the de facto Offensive Coordinator.
 

BaseballJones

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Well I hope the Zappe makes it to the PS then, because I think the kid has some talent, and I don't want NE to carry 3 QBs, not with all the other good players they'll already have tough decisions with.
 

Harry Hooper

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Well I hope the Zappe makes it to the PS then, because I think the kid has some talent, and I don't want NE to carry 3 QBs, not with all the other good players they'll already have tough decisions with.
Given every team has had a contingent of QBs working in their respective camps now, it would seem that the only thing stopping Zappe from getting to the PS at season's start would be a team that was absolutely itching to draft him but got intercepted by the Pats on draft day.
 

Kliq

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Super Nomario

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Well I hope the Zappe makes it to the PS then, because I think the kid has some talent, and I don't want NE to carry 3 QBs, not with all the other good players they'll already have tough decisions with.
I'd be shocked if they cut Zappe. They've never cut a 4th rounder before his first camp. I think you are (as many of us do this time of year) overrating a lot of the competition for the back of the roster and overestimating the likelihood guys get claimed off waivers.
 

dcdrew10

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It looks like one one guy, Kenny Robinson, was involved in both incidents with Wilkerson, including standing over him after he was hurt and Rhule was not pleased.

Rhule was then asked if Robinson could be cut as a result of the last two days. He reiterated that he didn’t see what sparked things on Wednesday before saying the team would be discussing that topic.

‘Two days now that practice was affected by a guy. We’ll have to talk about it,” Rhule said.
 

Shelterdog

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I'd be shocked if they cut Zappe. They've never cut a 4th rounder before his first camp. I think you are (as many of us do this time of year) overrating a lot of the competition for the back of the roster and overestimating the likelihood guys get claimed off waivers.
To take two examples, every team a Nixon and a Harris (young late round or udfa receivers and backs who have flashed a little); you could lose them if someone is trying to upgrade the back of their roster but you probably don’t
 

Ale Xander

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Can someone fill me in on the benefits of a joint practice, at least when you play same team in a few days and at least when roster sizes are this big? It seems the cons way overweigh the pros?
 

Shelterdog

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Can someone fill me in on the benefits of a joint practice, at least when you play same team in a few days and at least when roster sizes are this big? It seems the cons way overweigh the pros?
They don’t care about the game in a few days but they do care about putting their teams in actual competitive situations the parameters of which they can control. So they can agree to whatever to generate the best training situations (eg when our first team oline is up can you run a lot of exotic blitzes; can you really attack the edge with the run against our first team s because we’re working at that; can you run a lot of 12 personnel
 

Gash Prex

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Can someone fill me in on the benefits of a joint practice, at least when you play same team in a few days and at least when roster sizes are this big? It seems the cons way overweigh the pros?
Bill answered this question directly just a few days ago:

Asked a follow-up question about if he thinks joint practices can have as big of an impact as preseason games, Belichick had a strong response.

“In some respects you get a lot more out of them,” he replied.

“We can set up a lot more situations that aren’t going to come up in preseason games with the players who are most likely going to be playing them,” said Belichick. “That will be a good place to start. Certainly in a preseason game you don’t get individual one-on-ones or two-on-twos, or those kind of individual match-ups that show up in a practice session. There are a lot of differences between practices and games. We could be here all day talking about that.”
https://www.boston.com/sports/morning-sports-update/2022/08/16/bill-belichick-joint-practice-value-preseason-games-patriots-panthers/

Another example was from Devin McCourty who indicated its good to get a look at different offenses because you can start to "cheat" when you've been practicing against the same looks all training camp.

View: https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1559946355015139330
 

joe dokes

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Would the lawsuit payoff be worth having a pro football player try to break a fan's neck for yelling "you guys fighting are the stupidest fucking morons on Earth."
 

Ferm Sheller

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At first, there was talk the Wilkerson injury was non-contact, but it seems maybe it wasn't.

View: https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1559916271931740160

Well, now this article says that "...Robinson hit Wilkerson with a violent block that left Wilkerson motionless on the ground."

If true, that seems like maybe it's a concussion and not something typical of a non-contact injury, like a ligament injury.

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2022/08/17/patriots-panthers-fights-cancel-practice/?p1=hp_primary
 

Over Guapo Grande

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Well, now this article says that "...Robinson hit Wilkerson with a violent block that left Wilkerson motionless on the ground."

If true, that seems like maybe it's a concussion and not something typical of a non-contact injury, like a ligament injury.

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2022/08/17/patriots-panthers-fights-cancel-practice/?p1=hp_primary
That was my read- Slater said ir was a big/clean hit, but Robinson flexed over the obviously knocked out k Wilk.
 

Ferm Sheller

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How could there be "Differing views in media tent if it was a result of a hit, or non-contact", as Reiss says above, if Wilkerson was knocked out due to a "violent block"?
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I was hoping the offensive struggles in practice are because the defense is stout as shit. Now that they're rolling against Carolina, I'm just going to assume that was a fair assumption.
 

dynomite

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I attended training camp again! The mute button on some conference calls came in super handy today. I showed up after the big skirmish so I missed that.

A few notes, again recognizing I wouldn’t trust me to scout a high school game:

- From when I was there the teams were on one field, alternating between offenses running 2 minute drills.

- Patricia (as reported and as I saw yesterday) once again looked to be holding the playcall sheet when Mac was at QB.

- Belichick stood behind the plays almost alongside the refs and watched everything, sometimes talking to Patricia as the teams would swap who was on the field. Heard him yelling things indistinctly at Mac a few times after plays. Reminded me of the tone in that clip from Training Camp in 2000 (?) when he says "I can't stand it. Run it again, Brady. Huddle up and run it again."

- Marcus Jones and Miles Bryant got burned on corner TD routes while I was watching.

- Offense didn't look as crisp today as it did yesterday -- on one of the 2 minute drills the Panthers stopped the Pats at the 35 and they only advanced the ball to give the Pats more situational practice. Mac threw the ball away in the middle of the field for what would have been grounding.

- DeVante Parker made a lovely adjustment on a TD catch.

- Agholor somehow caught a TD in the end zone despite having 3 Panthers around him. It was a NonononoYES kind of play. Mac threaded a needle on the back of the end zone throw.

- Zappe -- to my eyes -- didn’t look good. A few passes batted down at the line, some bad misses downfield, threw a pick, etc.

- Tre Nixon was running with the 2/3s and got wide open on a downfield route… and I looked back to see Zappe scrambling and dumping it off to the RB. Still, he made whoever was covering him look slow.

Edit - Forgot Ty Montgomery made a nice cut at the goal line to get open for what the official (if I’m remembering right) ruled a 2 Pt conversion catch.
 
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Shelterdog

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I was hoping the offensive struggles in practice are because the defense is stout as shit. Now that they're rolling against Carolina, I'm just going to assume that was a fair assumption.
My fingers are crossed for this. In particular hearing the lines struggles I’m hoping that Barmore is turning into a monster and Judon is playing like he did the first half of last season
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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My fingers are crossed for this. In particular hearing the lines struggles I’m hoping that Barmore is turning into a monster and Judon is playing like he did the first half of last season
Re: Barmore, that was my hope also. Hearing that he was so disruptive, you'd have to think it played into the offensive line woes. Hearing he's also doing it against Carolina has to make you feel good about him. He was the most talented lineman in the draft, and slipped because of IQ concerns. As if some of the best players in league history weren't dumb as rocks.

Still, it doesn't sound like the offensive line is having much success in the running game against Carolina, and its puzzling to me. I'd have to assume it has something to do with the scheme changes this season, because the line is undoubtedly talented.

LT, Trent Brown - When healthy, all-pro caliber
LG, Cole Stange - 1st rounder, glowing pre-camp reviews
C, David Andrews - Solid, borderline pro-bowler
RG, Mike Onwenu - Pro-Bowl caliber season one, regression last season
RT, Isaiah Wynn - Great 2 seasons ago, regressed last season. Moving to RT. should hopefully boost him back to an above average tackle.

I do think that, in the long run, the Patriots transition to zone run-blocking could be a good one. I wonder though - both from the article I linked as well as others cited throughout camp, the Patriots continue to use both zone and gap during practice and games. While it may be a simple case of trying to determine which scheme works best for the line, I wouldn't be shocked if they opt to run a good amount of zone to the outside (especially left), while leveraging more gap when running inside (especially right). This allows them to lean on their strength for the outside runs - double teaming the edges, then leaving the monsters (Brown/Wynn) to solo their man while Strange/Andrews/Onwenu(gulp) move up field - as well as their strength on inside runs where Strange and (in particular) Onwenu can get gap control while the rest of the group can wash down the line.

It may be too much to ask for linemen to try and play two schemes throughout a game - not to mention the mental games the coaches will need to play in order to keep opposing teams guessing - but if they do end up going dual scheme, it could be one of BB's ultimate long game moves. The line would struggle early in the season, but it could really pay dividends when the weather turns cold and the team can lean into their strength on the line.
 

Shelterdog

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Re: Barmore, that was my hope also. Hearing that he was so disruptive, you'd have to think it played into the offensive line woes. Hearing he's also doing it against Carolina has to make you feel good about him. He was the most talented lineman in the draft, and slipped because of IQ concerns. As if some of the best players in league history weren't dumb as rocks.

Still, it doesn't sound like the offensive line is having much success in the running game against Carolina, and its puzzling to me. I'd have to assume it has something to do with the scheme changes this season, because the line is undoubtedly talented.

LT, Trent Brown - When healthy, all-pro caliber
LG, Cole Stange - 1st rounder, glowing pre-camp reviews
C, David Andrews - Solid, borderline pro-bowler
RG, Mike Onwenu - Pro-Bowl caliber season one, regression last season
RT, Isaiah Wynn - Great 2 seasons ago, regressed last season. Moving to RT. should hopefully boost him back to an above average tackle.

I do think that, in the long run, the Patriots transition to zone run-blocking could be a good one. I wonder though - both from the article I linked as well as others cited throughout camp, the Patriots continue to use both zone and gap during practice and games. While it may be a simple case of trying to determine which scheme works best for the line, I wouldn't be shocked if they opt to run a good amount of zone to the outside (especially left), while leveraging more gap when running inside (especially right). This allows them to lean on their strength for the outside runs - double teaming the edges, then leaving the monsters (Brown/Wynn) to solo their man while Strange/Andrews/Onwenu(gulp) move up field - as well as their strength on inside runs where Strange and (in particular) Onwenu can get gap control while the rest of the group can wash down the line.

It may be too much to ask for linemen to try and play two schemes throughout a game - not to mention the mental games the coaches will need to play in order to keep opposing teams guessing - but if they do end up going dual scheme, it could be one of BB's ultimate long game moves. The line would struggle early in the season, but it could really pay dividends when the weather turns cold and the team can lean into their strength on the line.
I think some of the preseason struggles involve Andrews missing a lot of time early and Wynn losing a lot recently so that's part of it, but I'm not sure. I'm slightly worried about the coaching (a divided Particia and Yates?) and owenwu/brown are odd fits for predominantly zone blocking scheme.
 

Saints Rest

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Re: Barmore, that was my hope also. Hearing that he was so disruptive, you'd have to think it played into the offensive line woes. Hearing he's also doing it against Carolina has to make you feel good about him. He was the most talented lineman in the draft, and slipped because of IQ concerns. As if some of the best players in league history weren't dumb as rocks.

Still, it doesn't sound like the offensive line is having much success in the running game against Carolina, and its puzzling to me. I'd have to assume it has something to do with the scheme changes this season, because the line is undoubtedly talented.

LT, Trent Brown - When healthy, all-pro caliber
LG, Cole Stange - 1st rounder, glowing pre-camp reviews
C, David Andrews - Solid, borderline pro-bowler
RG, Mike Onwenu - Pro-Bowl caliber season one, regression last season
RT, Isaiah Wynn - Great 2 seasons ago, regressed last season. Moving to RT. should hopefully boost him back to an above average tackle.

I do think that, in the long run, the Patriots transition to zone run-blocking could be a good one. I wonder though - both from the article I linked as well as others cited throughout camp, the Patriots continue to use both zone and gap during practice and games. While it may be a simple case of trying to determine which scheme works best for the line, I wouldn't be shocked if they opt to run a good amount of zone to the outside (especially left), while leveraging more gap when running inside (especially right). This allows them to lean on their strength for the outside runs - double teaming the edges, then leaving the monsters (Brown/Wynn) to solo their man while Strange/Andrews/Onwenu(gulp) move up field - as well as their strength on inside runs where Strange and (in particular) Onwenu can get gap control while the rest of the group can wash down the line.

It may be too much to ask for linemen to try and play two schemes throughout a game - not to mention the mental games the coaches will need to play in order to keep opposing teams guessing - but if they do end up going dual scheme, it could be one of BB's ultimate long game moves. The line would struggle early in the season, but it could really pay dividends when the weather turns cold and the team can lean into their strength on the line.
The other way to look at it is this:
LT, Trent Brown - Back to playing LT after 2 seasons on right side.
LG, Cole Stange - 1st rounder, getting used to everything
C, David Andrews - Solid, borderline pro-bowler, but with new guys on both sides
RG, Mike Onwenu - trying another new interior line position which didn't work out so well on left side.
RT, Isaiah Wynn - playing RT for first time in his life.

So, yes, I agree that there's a lot of talent there, but there's a lot of "new" there, in various forms. My sense is that we might see continued growing pains through all of PS and into the first few weeks of the year which may be detrimental to the success of the offense and to Mac Jones' personal health with MIA, PIT and BAL those first 3 weeks.
 

Harry Hooper

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Wynn hasn't even been practicing for days for some undisclosed reason.
 

Gash Prex

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The Pats are now on their 3rd (or 4th) OL coach since Scar retired. The consistency for so many years with Scar allowed them to plug and play pretty easily.

They have moved 2 pieces on the line (Brown/Wynn swap), and replaced 1 starter (Strange for Mason) on the line. The line struggled the first few games last year.

Add in a new scheme and I think you have recipe for struggles for the first couple of games again this year.
 

Super Nomario

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Still, it doesn't sound like the offensive line is having much success in the running game against Carolina, and its puzzling to me. I'd have to assume it has something to do with the scheme changes this season, because the line is undoubtedly talented.

LT, Trent Brown - When healthy, all-pro caliber
LG, Cole Stange - 1st rounder, glowing pre-camp reviews
C, David Andrews - Solid, borderline pro-bowler
RG, Mike Onwenu - Pro-Bowl caliber season one, regression last season
RT, Isaiah Wynn - Great 2 seasons ago, regressed last season. Moving to RT. should hopefully boost him back to an above average tackle.
The line is certainly better than most in the NFL, but I think you're overrating it. Brown is more of a borderline Pro Bowler - he's made one in six seasons as a starter and has never sniffed All-Pro. Andrews is a good solid player but has never made a Pro Bowl. Strange and Onwenu are young players with ups and downs. Wynn has been fine but not special (when he's been on the field). There's no major weak link, which is the most important thing and makes it better than most.

I do think that, in the long run, the Patriots transition to zone run-blocking could be a good one. I wonder though - both from the article I linked as well as others cited throughout camp, the Patriots continue to use both zone and gap during practice and games.
Yeah, I think the idea that they're shifting to more of a Shanahan / McVay scheme is way overblown and they're likely to (as they always do) run a mix of both. Maybe there will be more zone than in the past, but they love them some gap / power.

It may be too much to ask for linemen to try and play two schemes throughout a game - not to mention the mental games the coaches will need to play in order to keep opposing teams guessing - but if they do end up going dual scheme, it could be one of BB's ultimate long game moves. The line would struggle early in the season, but it could really pay dividends when the weather turns cold and the team can lean into their strength on the line.
This is what they've done historically - they're a gameplan team and week to week you'll see different approaches to attack different defensive strengths and weaknesses. Scarnecchia talked recently about how outside zone is something they've run and run well through the years.
 

brendan f

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Marcus Jones' 40 time is listed at 4.38, which is elite speed.

On a different note, trying to guess this team's 53-man roster is IMPOSSIBLE. This was my guess at it using this tool. I had some incredibly difficult cuts, like Hoyer (who I'd cut easily but who I think BB is hesitant to cut), JJ Taylor, K. Harris, Hines, Wilkerson, Ray, Perkins, Mitchell, and Hafford. They're going to have to figure out who in the world they can manage to sneak onto the PS because they're going to end up cutting some pretty good players.

QB (2) M.Jones, B.Zappe
RB (4) D.Harris, R.Stevenson, P.Strong, T.Montgomery
WR (7) J.Meyers, D.Parker, K.Bourne, T.Thornton, N.Agholor, T.Nixon, M.Slater
TE (3) H.Henry, J.Smith, D.Asiasi
C (2) D.Andrews, J.Ferentz
G (3) M.Onwenu, C.Strange, Y.Durant
T (4) I.Wynn, T.Brown, Y.Cajuste, J.Herron
DE (1) D.Wise
DT (5) L.Guy, C.Barmore, C.Davis, D.Godchaux, S.Roberts
ILB(4) J.Bentley, C.McGrone, M.Wilson, R.McMillan
OLB(3) M.Judon, A.Jennings, J.Uche
CB (7) J.Mills, Jo.Jones, Ja.Jones, M.Bryant, J.Bethel, S.Wade, M.Jones
SS (3) K.Dugger, A.Phillips, J.Bledsoe
FS (2) D.McCourty, J.Peppers
ST (3) N.Folk, J.Bailey, J.Cardona

Total players: 53
It's impossible but also fun! A few thoughts...
* It's hard to see Ferentz making the initial cut. He's only made it one time in his career. I think they can safely cut him with the understanding he'll find his way back (he always does).
* I see them going with two tight ends initially. There's just too much talent on other parts of the roster and a decent chance Asiasi (et al.) clears waivers.
* Hoyer has a semi-real contract, so I think he's safe. It also seems clear Zappe isn't ready (though he seems relatively safe to make it as an inactive).
*Even with the IR designations at CB, there are still probably too many. Wade might end up being a tough cut.
* Just a guess, but Schooler looks like a potential special teams ace; I think he makes the team (maybe over Davis).
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts way less than 18% useful shit
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2010
14,425
The line is certainly better than most in the NFL, but I think you're overrating it. Brown is more of a borderline Pro Bowler - he's made one in six seasons as a starter and has never sniffed All-Pro. Andrews is a good solid player but has never made a Pro Bowl. Strange and Onwenu are young players with ups and downs. Wynn has been fine but not special (when he's been on the field). There's no major weak link, which is the most important thing and makes it better than most.


Sure. There might be some red, white, and blue glasses on right now. I know it was a large caveat to add, but when healthy with the Patriots, Brown performed at an extremely high level. He was clearly struggling with lower body issues last season, and maybe thats just who he is. I used the phrase "all-pro caliber" because thats what his level of play really was when he was here and healthy. He was excellent. But being voted "all-pro" - especially at offensive line - involves a sustained reputation or an obscenely productive season that stands out. Like, last years team:

Trent Williams: 2x all-pro, 9x pro bowler
Joel Bitonio: 4x all-pro
Jason Kelce: 4x all-pro
Zach Martin: 7x all-pro
Tristan Wirfs: The Tom Brady special; Only allowed one sack his rookie season, and two sacks his sophomore campaign. Highest efficiency in the league last season, 4th in hurries while outsnapping first through third by 200-500 snaps. Reputation will officially precede him.
Reshawn Slater - Rookie. 13th overall pick reputation. Was a very good tackle, but probably voted in based on draft position and being Herbert's LT.
Quenton Nelson: 4x all-pro
Corey Linsley: 2x all-pro. Aaron Rodgers center, gets the Jeff Saturday treatment.
Wyatt Teller: 2x all-pro
Lane Johnson: 2x all-pro

So, out of 10 linemen, 8 are multi-time all-pros. The other two are the young guys tabbed to be the multi-time all-pros. And, while you cite Brown only making 1 pro-bowl, that doesnt really exclude him from other All-pro players. Linsley and Teller have both only made 1 pro-bowl despite being named all-pro twice. Wirfs has made 1 pro-bowl and 1 all-pro team. The all-pro label, while meaning more than pro-bowl, still relies a lot on reputation.

When healthy, I'd put Browns performance at or above tackles on that list except Trent Williams and maybe Wirfs.

And while Andrews hasn't made a pro-bowl roster, he did finish 2nd in the 2016 fan voting...so...thats something. A solid starter in the NFL - fringe top 10 kind of guy - feels like a "solid, borderline pro-bowler".

I definitely overstated the guard situation a bit. Onwenu has obviously been a monster in the running game, but hes probably been below average in the passing game. Like you said, hes going to need some consistency. There is a path for Strange to perform consistently, though. Marpet, Scherff, Zach Martin, Bitonio, Nelson, Trey Smith...they all performed very well and were consistent guards in their rookie season. Basically, 1 rookie guard per season has the ability to perform to that level out of the gate. As a first rounder, Strange is as likely as anyone.

As for Wynn, I'd argue if he actually got a full season of games in 2020, he would have had a decent shot at a pro-bowl. According to PFF, he was a top 10 tackle based on raw stats in 2020. If you dig into his game logs, his efficiency was consistently 96+ for all of the games he started at tackle. Of the 3 sacks and 16 hurries he gave up on the season, 2 sacks and 5 of the hurries came in one game against Denver. Shaq Mason was injured and Wynn had to fill in at guard while he was also dealing with a calf injury.

Either way, yes, I may be overselling the line a bit. But very few teams have the potential upside at offensive line that the Patriots do. If they actually reach that ceiling is the question, I guess.
 
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