Patriots trade for DeVante Parker
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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Few, if any Patriots fans had unrealistic expectations from 2001 through 2019, the team competed at an extremely high level and we as fans reaped the rewards of that.
6 Super Bowl wins, 9 appearances and 13 AFCG's, that's roughly 1 trip to the Super Bowl every 2 years during that span, our expectations were met.
Over and over and over.
We weren't wishing in one hand, hoping in another, yammering "THIS is the year!!, it's gonna happen, I can feel it!!", going to the playoffs three times, losing all three games by a combined 77-24 score, but kept expecting better.
Over and over and over.
Big difference between being a Patriots fan and Dolphins fan.
Did you never read the gamethreads? The defense allowed points and the offense punted sometimes. It was clear that BB had lost control of the team.
Couldn’t agree more. Parker could blossom here, sure. I hope he does. But he’s had only one really promising season, two years ago, and his injury history isn’t AWFUL, but it ain’t great. This trade doesn’t remotely “sew things up” enough, IMO, to NOT draft a very high-end young receiver. Land a potential #1 receiver in this WR DEEP draft, and now we’re slightly sorta maybe kinda talkin’.
(Get a VERY GOOD cornerback first, though, please.)
Yes, this. More 11 please, and Parker will help with that.
For the knock upthread on a lack of YAC, a guy who can more regularly get separation is exactly what this offense needs. I don't care if he trips over the line to gain after he catches it.
And that’s why you’ll never be on a Mike McDaniel team!
I like this move as well. I understand that people want a #1 but those guys are ridiculously expensive right now in terms of contract and trade compensation. I think people also need to consider what the playbook is going to look like in year two for Mac. My sense is that there are going to be more shots and fewer check downs, which means Agohlor is likely to get more balls thrown his way as well.
Lol. “Few Patriot fans had unrealistic expectations while having the combination of one of the greatest coaches of all time paired with one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time.”
Right. Must have just been your managed expectations and level headed evaluations of the teams all these years.
I want to like Meyers more than I actually do. He dropped some wide open passes last year, including at least one deep ball. Considering his other skills, such at they are, he cannot be dropping balls. I still do like him, but he just isn't an every down player.
Here's a question - can Agholor play in the slot? I seem to recall Philly using him there in the Super Bowl that shall not be remembered, although maybe I am misremembering. It might not be his ideal role but can he do it better than Meyers?
Parker has averaged 900-something yards per 17 games the last two years; he just hasn't stayed healthy. 2019 was probably his high-water mark, but he can still be productive when he's on the field.
If you're a fan of a team you don't stop being a fan just because they haven't been successful for a while. You continue to feel hope and optimism. That's not hard to understand for longtime Pats and/or Red Sox fans, is it? Does "wait 'til next year!" sound familiar? I don't get the mockery of Dolphans.
I think it’s more their tendency towards being mired in their past glories, and their delusions about their status now. I have a longtime friend who is a Dolphin fan, and he still has an attitude like it’s 1990, and the Phins are a blue blood franchise, and the Patriots are a second class, joke of a team. In utter and complete denial about how New England has left them in the dust bin of league history. I find a lot of them I encounter to be that way, as evidenced by the pathetic joy they still get every year when the last undefeated team loses. I just laugh at my buddy at this point.
I was replying to his comment about having unrealistic expectations is part of being a fan.
For a Dolphins fan, without unrealistic expectations, you have nothing.
Well it started with "Parker sucks. You guys can have him", which naturally resulted in "wtf does a Dolphins fan know about winning football?".
Not our best moments all around. Time to spin the topic wheel.
Honestly some posts here remind me of the tone and attitude of my NYY fan friends at UConn in ‘02/‘03
Especially when the Patriots are in the exact same position as they are (clearly below the top teams in the conference and hoping to compete with similarly talented rosters that have done more than they have to improve in the off-season while hoping their QB takes the next step).
I think the problem here is we have a history with a Dolphin poster (sodenj5) who has consistently trolled Patriots fans on this message board. Go take a look at some of the dolphin - pats game threads over the last decade. It is constant. Are some posts maybe a little over the line in this thread? Sure but I understand from a certain perspective. You reap what you sow
Yes, we've become what we hate. The "That's a W for Miami" post that started this off was eye roll worthy, because the exact pick has not been disclosed since it is a 2023 pick, and Parker has not even been introduced to the media as a member of the Pats, let alone played a single snap, but we could all do with being a little less triggered.
I'm interested to see what happens with the extra 5th round 2022 pick in the deal. You know BB is going to be involved in soem sort of trade during the draft and having an extra pick could lead to either an extra pick or used as an to move up in the in another round. If there is a round that I am okay with BB rolling the dice, his history has pulled some pretty good picks in the 4th and 5th round - Koppen, Asante Samuel, Gostkowski, Slater, Marcus Canon, James White, Shaq Mason, Tre Flowers, Malcolm Mitchell, Rhamondre Stevenson, etc. The roster needs a little little magic in the lower rounds. I would not mind seeing some young blood infused on the o-line or on ST.
As a Red Sox/Dolphins fan, I can confirm this.
I started to type responses a few times yesterday, but thought better of it and deleted. The Yankees fan comparison would have been part of any of those posts. I grew up in a CT town that had a NY/Sox split, and the Pats portion of this site often reminds me of those New York fans.
It’s always been striking to me, because it seems like a complete lack of self-awareness…I think someone else already mentioned the proverbial, “becoming the thing you hate”. Though as I’m typing, I wonder if it’s an age thing, I’m sure there’s many here that didn’t grow up in the 90’s teased and tortured by Yankees fans (and sure many go back further than that).
And now that I feel like I’ve somewhat said my piece, as to not be completely ot…
I was happy having Parker as a 4th receiver, as his strengths differ from the top 3 wideouts. That said, I also didn’t mind them trading Parker if the team viewed his role as redundant with Gesicki and if they could find a trade that made sense…I’m not sure trading him to a division rival made complete sense.
As somebody who doesn't engage too much in this back and forth, I would say this probably has more to do with @sodenj5's trolling than much else. You seem like a great poster, @rymflaherty, from what I've seen. Who knows? Maybe 20 years from now both teams won't have won a playoff game in decades and we can debate which team sucks out loud more.
My posts yesterday were 100% directed at the best thing the Miami Dolphins have produced in the last 25 years, which is a world class Dolphins troll on a Boston focused web site.
That said, while I might have engaged in some hyperbole, my analysis of Miami's success on the football field is 100% accurate. It is not hyperbole to say they haven't produced a great player on offense in 20 years.(which really is breathtaking) It is not hyperbole to say they rarely make the playoffs and they literally never win playoff games on the off chance that they do.
The team hasn't won a playoff game since Bill Clinton was the President of the United States.
Indeed, standards are important. I respect standards. We must abide by the standards of decorum and kindness in all situations.
Trying to bring this thread back to on the field discussion, how do we feel about Parker's fit in the Patriot offense, both in terms of schemes (which may be a bit challenging in the absence of knowing what the new offensive play-caller might bring to the table) and in terms of personnel.
Do we think that Parker's addition might mean a trade out of one of the incumbents? Will his addition change the likelihood of seeing a WR drafted sooner than the 7th round?
Do we think that Parker's addition might mean a trade out of one of the incumbents? Will his addition change the likelihood of seeing a WR drafted sooner than the 7th round?
Conventional wisdom seems to be that he'd be the X and replace Agholor in a lot of circumstances but I'm less certain--I could see him playing with Agholor in two wide receiver sets and displacing Meyers, and I don't think it's hard to imagine him being part of a three wide receiver group with Agholor and Meyers.
I assume they'd ditch Harry for a soda pop or three but I don't think the receiving core is robust enough or Parker reliable enough to displace Agholor or Meyers.
That is an uncharitable view. But I respect your opinion and will move on.
The good news is that by the time Miami wins their next playoff game, we'll probably all have been deceased for years.(and they will be playing games in the Rockies because the coasts are under water) So I think we're in good standing.
Warning: the outcome of this game sucked
View: https://twitter.com/tomecurran/status/1510653839627722754
View: https://twitter.com/tomecurran/status/1510653839627722754
Curran also says that the guy Parker is most likely replacing here is Harry: https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/analyzing-devante-parkers-field-and-financial-fit-patriots
TBH, Curran says that Parker is replacing the role they envisioned (but never really got) for Harry. In reality, its more like he's replacing Meyers as the Swiss-Army knife WR1. It seems to me that in Parker, Meyers, and Bourne, they now have 3 guys who can line up anywhere and run any route, with Agholor pretty much always being the deep threat guy.
Yeah that makes some sense.
It's not unprecedented for an NFL player to make a jump in their fourth year but it's pretty rare (Henry Ellard went from good to great in like his sixth year). Unless Harry has just fundamentally changed his game its hard to see him sticking around at his current salary.
At his current salary? It is hard for me to see him sticking around the league at any salary. Do folks think he will get a second contract from someone?
He's not good but he's a reasonable option for a 4-6th receiver for most teams especially if they think that maybe has some upside and the Pats just blew it with him by making him overthink things-if the Pats trade him for a bag of donuts or cut him I think he sticks around the league for another year or two on near minimum contracts.
maybe? Lots of teams take flyers on former high picks that didn't pan out, some team will give him a look either as a #4 WR and ST guy, or consider shifting him to a move TE type role.
This is a really good value for NE. Next years 3 is worth a 4th rounder but when you add in their 2022 5th it’s paying the price of a low 4 or high 5 for 2 years of Parker on a reasonable deal. They needed his skill set. I had joked on the slack about if you could only combine Harry’s size and blocking with Agholors speed you’d have a nice X. N’Keal Agholor or Nelson Harry. Well it turns out my portmanteau was a little off: it’s DeVante Parker.
How does Jonuu fit into this offense when the team has a variety of RB and WR to choose from at this point?
Either he plays more H-Back (and the offense adapts to having one of those in the formation more often without a traditional FB on the roster) or I don't think his role is significant. He didn't show the ability to produce as a traditional in-line TE and I don't think he's athletic and explosive enough to warrant a resonable number of plays drawn up specifically to get him in space. Looks like a gadget player to me.
You’re probably right, which would be a huge disappointment given the financial commitment of $31M guaranteed. We’re basically stuck with Jonnu for 2 more seasons so just have to hope they can figure something out to make him more productive.
Reiss on Jonnu
5. Jonnu's offseason: One of the most significant things to come out of the NFL's annual meeting from a Patriots perspective was learning that tight end Jonnu Smith plans to spend the offseason as part of the team's voluntary offseason program. Smith didn't do that last season, in part due to the birth of his daughter and COVID-19 considerations. Some around the team believed it wasn't a coincidence that fellow tight end Hunter Henry -- who had spent the majority of last offseason in town working with Jones & Co. -- had a more productive first season in New England than Smith. Henry, by the way, was back in town last week.
https://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4825104/lb-nakobe-dean-is-todd-mcshays-favorite-fit-for-new-england-patriots
I think there's every reason to beleive that Jonu Smith can be a useful second tight end and provide some extra value as a half back. He's done it before.
There is no particular reason to think he can be a 15 million a year player--that was only going to work if NE was somehow getting him to perform way abouve what he's historically done and that simply ain't happening.
Yeah, to the tune of okay blocking and 40 catches for 400 yards. That's not really what they paid for and the fact that it's the kind of production we're now hoping to get says a lot.
We're in violent agreement. If he becomes a 40 catch/400 yard/plays 60 percent of the snaps guy, that's useful but it's not a 15 million a year player.
At this point, I’d probably gladly sign up for that. E5’s info may tell some of the story but otherwise, I’d love to know what they thought they were getting. In any event, much of this contract is simply a sunk cost barring something crazy happening. If he could replicate 2020 where he gets 450 yards and a decent amount of TDs, we’d probably take it.
I'm not sure exactly how much you can chalk Jonnu's disappointing 2021 season to him being a bust. The team pretty much reinvented its entire offense on the fly, captained by a rookie. It's hard for every new guy to play to their potential under that scenario -- esp. when you throw in the factors Reiss mentions impacting him. Maybe we should eventually adjust our expectations for Jonnu -- but I would like to see at least a few games with him in our system with a full offseason, no newborns and no COVID weirdness before we declare him the FA version of N'Keal Harry.
This year will tell the story but I find it hard to believe he’ll see a ton of volume given the current personnel but I guess we’ll see. If anything, just being a red zone target like he was in 2020 would be valuable enough. The H-back stuff will be what I’ll be watching this summer.
The real problem is not so much Jonnu's production as that Hunter Henry is also not a traditional in-line TE. In the run-heavy games, Henry was often coming off the field for Jonnu. If Jonnu is playing H back, Henry is the Y. Can he do that? There are a lot of moving pieces with the skill players.