Patriots Strategery

[BuellMiller]

I was going to post this in the gameball thread, but figured this could be worth a new thread (feel free to move if not). Just wanted to share some thoughts, reactions, and questions about some of the gameplan.
1. Playaction: I didn't watch much of the preseason, so I'm not sure if this was much of a change, or if it's generally not something Van Pelt wants to do or that Brissett likes to do, but did they run playaction once against the Bengals? Seemed kind of strange given the emphasis on the run, but maybe they wanted to make sure when they wanted to pass that Brissett could have eyes up-field without having to look to the RB for a second? Especially with Trey Hendrickson going up against Chuks and then Lowe.
2. Kickoffs: Are they going to be kicking it out of the endzone predominantly. Can't imagine they want to keep letting the other team get the ball at the 30 instead of trying to pin them inside the 20.
3. Trying to draw the other team offside: I know these work about 1 in a million times, but I was glad to see it, in cases where there's really nothing to lose. Could be anecdotal, but I remember a few times the last few year that there were those kind of situations where BB would just send in the special teams, or just let the clock wind down to the 2 minute warning, instead of at least trying to see if the defense would flinch.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I didn't see any playaction either, but that may have been by design as Brissett isn't a gunslinger.

The actual gameplan didn't seem significantly different to me yesterday than it's been over the past couple of years: pound the ball with the run, try to dominate time of possession, keep the score low all around. The difference to my eye was better turnover luck than they've had recently, AND vastly better QB play. Stevenson was also much more lively than he was last year as well.

I don't see a sea change of tactics under Mayo compared to BB. He might be less conservative than BB got in his last couple of years, but he's not going to install Air Coryell or anything crazy.

 

[cshea]

I think they ran a few play action passes, but not many. One of the problems with PA is the plays take a little longer to develop so you need the protection to hold up a bit longer than a traditional drop back pass. They may not be comfortable with the OL yet to feature a heavy dose of PA.

The kickoffs…we’ll see what the data looks like as the sample size builds. In the preseason the average starting field position on returns was like the 28.5, so teams are basically willing to concede a yard a half to avoid the possibility of allowing a long return.

 

[Curt S Loew]

2. Kickoffs: Are they going to be kicking it out of the endzone predominantly. Can't imagine they want to keep letting the other team get the ball at the 30 instead of trying to pin them inside the 20.

This is league wide. Not just The Pats. The new rule hasn't resulted in the major decline as intended so far:

In the first 15 games of the 2024 season, 63.5 percent of kickoffs have gone for touchbacks. That’s a decline in touchbacks from last year, when 73.0 percent of kickoffs were touchbacks.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/through-15-games-with-new-rule-63-5-percent-of-kickoffs-have-been-touchbacks

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

I didn't see any playaction either, but that may have been by design as Brissett isn't a gunslinger.

The actual gameplan didn't seem significantly different to me yesterday than it's been over the past couple of years: pound the ball with the run, try to dominate time of possession, keep the score low all around. The difference to my eye was better turnover luck than they've had recently, AND vastly better QB play. Stevenson was also much more lively than he was last year as well.

I don't see a sea change of tactics under Mayo compared to BB. He might be less conservative than BB got in his last couple of years, but he's not going to install Air Coryell or anything crazy.

I mean, we're two years removed from having a career defensive coach taking over as offensive coordinator and running an absolute joke of a system - aesthetically I think the results were more than simple competence versus utter incompetence . I'm sure the people that pour over the All-22 footage will find significant differences. A few things that come to mind are a lack of screens, zero sideline fades that they would run to Parker, using slants to move the chains. They also so rarely had the lead in recent seasons were they could pound the rock and make key third downs versus panic mode Mac trying to make too much happen. So in a game flow context yesterday was night and day with recent years.

 

[lexrageorge]

There will be times when it will make sense to attempt to kick the ball to the 10 yard line. But that's not always an easy kick to make, and putting the ball on the 30 is better than putting it on the 40 if the kick goes out of bounds.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

I mean, we're two years removed from having a career defensive coach taking over as offensive coordinator and running an absolute joke of a system - aesthetically I think the results were more than simple competence versus utter incompetence . I'm sure the people that pour over the All-22 footage will find significant differences. A few things that come to mind are a lack of screens, zero sideline fades that they would run to Parker, using slants to move the chains. They also so rarely had the lead in recent seasons were they could pound the rock and make key third downs versus panic mode Mac trying to make too much happen. So in a game flow context yesterday was night and day with recent years.

The low number of WR screens is what stood out to me compared to past years. Sometimes it felt like Mac And Zappe were throwing every other pass behind the LOS.

 

[IdiotKicker]

This is league wide. Not just The Pats. The new rule hasn't resulted in the major decline as intended so far:

In the first 15 games of the 2024 season, 63.5 percent of kickoffs have gone for touchbacks. That’s a decline in touchbacks from last year, when 73.0 percent of kickoffs were touchbacks.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/through-15-games-with-new-rule-63-5-percent-of-kickoffs-have-been-touchbacks

I feel like the easy solution on this is to back kickers up another 5 yards so they can't reach the end zone without sacrificing hang time more meaningfully. If that doesn't work, do another 5 yards.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I mean, we're two years removed from having a career defensive coach taking over as offensive coordinator and running an absolute joke of a system - aesthetically I think the results were more than simple competence versus utter incompetence . I'm sure the people that pour over the All-22 footage will find significant differences. A few things that come to mind are a lack of screens, zero sideline fades that they would run to Parker, using slants to move the chains. They also so rarely had the lead in recent seasons were they could pound the rock and make key third downs versus panic mode Mac trying to make too much happen. So in a game flow context yesterday was night and day with recent years.

I was just noting the larger overall approach; Mayo himself said they wanted to pound the rock this year, which is more or less what they hoped to do last year as well.

The lack of WR screens may well be because Stevenson was running the ball very well; they used to use screens to substitute for running plays in the past. With all the positive runs yesterday, I would guess the need for screens would be somewhat lessened.

IMO By far the most significant difference between yesterday and last year was the QB play, but we'll get into the weeds again if I go down that route.

 

[Jimbodandy]

The low number of WR screens is what stood out to me compared to past years. Sometimes it felt like Mac And Zappe were throwing every other pass behind the LOS.

This is a great catch. I think that this regime is thinking a little more downhill, trying to avoid negative plays. TE/RB screens and TE/RB checkdowns to combat odd man rushes work better than those WR screens unless you have, like, awesome WRs.

 

[Van Everyman]

I’m not sure we should be remotely surprised that what we saw yesterday bore a strong resemblance to what they tried to do the last two years. If you want to rip the tracks out of the ground, you don’t promote two guys from within. It was the execution that was completely different.

Despite moving on from Bill and Mac and the poor results the last two seasons, it’s clear that ownership felt the system and culture Bill built were strong and what was needed was less a complete overhaul than a new voice at the top and a new guy under center.

Time will tell as to whether they were right – and whether (as they’ve tried to do the last few years) you can still win in today’s NFL without top talent on the outside and a lot of middle-class lunchpail guys spread across the roster. Based on this one game, it seems you can win at least a few games. But the jury is still out on whether you can be really competitive in the league with that approach.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

In regards to pounding the rock they were using lineman at TE yesterday, whereas late career, post-Gronk BB seemed to deemphasize blocking TEs.

 

[lexrageorge]

I’m not sure we should be remotely surprised that what we saw yesterday bore a strong resemblance to what they tried to do the last two years. If you want to rip the tracks out of the ground, you don’t promote two guys from within. It was the execution that was completely different.

Despite moving on from Bill and Mac and the poor results the last two seasons, it’s clear that ownership felt the system and culture Bill built were strong and what was needed was less a complete overhaul than a new voice at the top and a new guy under center.

Time will tell as to whether they were right – and whether (as they’ve tried to do the last few years) you can still win in today’s NFL without top talent on the outside and a lot of middle-class lunchpail guys spread across the roster. Based on this one game, it seems you can win at least a few games. But the jury is still out on whether you can be really competitive in the league with that approach.

I don't think the team's leadership (Wolf, Mayo, Krafts) is under any illusion they can win the Super Bowl (or even win a playoff game) playing this style of football in this era. Just that for this roster, starting out with a conservative game plan that relied upon their defensive playmakers and running game made a lot of sense. Bank the first win, and take it from there.

Ultimately, this is going to be a bridge year, and everyone knows it. Only so much a team can overhaul a roster in a single offseason, especially with the marquee free agents choosing different destinations for various reasons. They'll have an offseason where they can get some upper end WR talent via the draft.

 

[Justthetippett]

On kickoffs, if they really wanted more returns, they would make touchbacks more penal and place then at the 40 (at least for kicks that go out of the back of the end zone). But they don't really want to make all kickoffs a live play.

 

[DJnVa]

On kickoffs, if they really wanted more returns, they would make touchbacks more penal and place then at the 40 (at least for kicks that go out of the back of the end zone). But they don't really want to make all kickoffs a live play.

There's word that the NFL can change the rule in-season if they decide they aren't seeing enough returns and move the touchback to the 40. One commentator said they think they'll wait until next season though, if the results aren't where they want them. Returns are up a bit though, so we'll see.

 

[Saints Rest]

In regards to pounding the rock they were using lineman at TE yesterday, whereas late career, post-Gronk BB seemed to deemphasize blocking TEs.

I call that the Indy run attack. IIRC they did that both games against Indy in the year where the second game was the infamous Deflategate genesis.

 

[joe dokes]

This is league wide. Not just The Pats. The new rule hasn't resulted in the major decline as intended so far:

In the first 15 games of the 2024 season, 63.5 percent of kickoffs have gone for touchbacks. That’s a decline in touchbacks from last year, when 73.0 percent of kickoffs were touchbacks.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/through-15-games-with-new-rule-63-5-percent-of-kickoffs-have-been-touchbacks

NFL coaches are a conservative lot. I think strategy will change as they get more comfortable with the kicks in the reality of the regular season. But to start with, I'm not really surprised that they mostly took the safe route in week 1. It's one thing to understand the rule and think strategically in the abstract (which I'm sure they all have done). But the rule has necessitated different types of players/skills on the kickoff teams, so coaches might still be in the intelligence-gathering phase of things.

 

[DJnVa]

NFL coaches are a conservative lot. I think strategy will change as they get more comfortable with the kicks in the reality of the regular season. But to start with, I'm not really surprised that they mostly took the safe route in week 1. It's one thing to understand the rule and think strategically in the abstract (which I'm sure they all have done). But the rule has necessitated different types of players/skills on the kickoff teams, so coaches might still be in the intelligence-gathering phase of things.

I saw one game yesterday that was basically hitting line drive style kicks into the area--if it skips through for a touchback, fine, but maybe the hard to field kick is mishandled and the ball is bouncing around.

 

[Kliq]

Getting off to a good start, the Pats were never put in a position to get very aggressive, so we have no idea how much of a part of that strategy that is going to be offense. Can this team execute better throwing the ball 30+ times a game? We don't know yet, because that wasn't a necessary thing yesterday because they were never chasing the game.

Brissett's experience being able to handle pressure and go through reads correctly, as well as better mobility, was very noticeable from the Mac/Zappe combo. I also think NOT running out the corpses of Juju and Devante Parker will upgrade the passing game because you have guys that might be able to get open on a quick slant instead of guys that couldn't get any seperation.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

I saw one game yesterday that was basically hitting line drive style kicks into the area--if it skips through for a touchback, fine, but maybe the hard to field kick is mishandled and the ball is bouncing around.

If you land short of the landing zone the ball gets spotted at the 40, so there's an inherent risk to line driving it.

 

[TomRicardo]

I’m not sure we should be remotely surprised that what we saw yesterday bore a strong resemblance to what they tried to do the last two years. If you want to rip the tracks out of the ground, you don’t promote two guys from within. It was the execution that was completely different.

Despite moving on from Bill and Mac and the poor results the last two seasons, it’s clear that ownership felt the system and culture Bill built were strong and what was needed was less a complete overhaul than a new voice at the top and a new guy under center.

Time will tell as to whether they were right – and whether (as they’ve tried to do the last few years) you can still win in today’s NFL without top talent on the outside and a lot of middle-class lunchpail guys spread across the roster. Based on this one game, it seems you can win at least a few games. But the jury is still out on whether you can be really competitive in the league with that approach.

I think you are off here. I don't think what we saw yesterday was in line with what we saw last year. Yesterday was a disciplined squad executing at a high level. There is a clear lack of talent especially on offense (I would argue the defense is not devoid of top talent, they good). The problem with Bill is the team was no longer executing like they did yesterday. They had a QB go backwards from his rookie year, you had WRs degrade, and the special teams was a mess.

Creating a culture of execution and accountability is what worked for the Patriots for years. I think Bill had just lost the theme. That said this team is not a contender however they can certainly start building the foundation of that

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

If you land short of the landing zone the ball gets spotted at the 40, so there's an inherent risk to line driving it.

Not even landing short. If I understood what Jay Feeley was saying yesterday at the end of the AZ/BUF broadcast, hitting a line down the middle runs the risk of a member of the return team sticking a hand up and batting the ball - leading to the ball being spotted at the 40.

 

[lexrageorge]

Not even landing short. If I understood what Jay Feeley was saying yesterday at the end of the AZ/BUF broadcast, hitting a line down the middle runs the risk of a member of the return team sticking a hand up and batting the ball - leading to the ball being spotted at the 40.

I believe that would be a penalty on the return team.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

I believe that would be a penalty on the return team.

I was several Heineken 0's in by that point, so it is possible that I heard wrong. I will go back and listen in a bit. (It is also possible that I heard correctly, and Feeley was speaking out of his....shoe)

 

[snowmanny]

I call that the Indy run attack. IIRC they did that both games against Indy in the year where the second game was the infamous Deflategate genesis.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I was several Heineken 0's in by that point, so it is possible that I heard wrong. I will go back and listen in a bit. (It is also possible that I heard correctly, and Feeley was speaking out of his....shoe)

So based on the rule....
https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-rulebook/#rule6

It would appear that so long as you did not leave your feet or move you could bat down a kick, which would result in it touching a player before the required zone which would spot it at the 40.

 

[Phil Plantier]

I was surprised by the punt with 3:15 to play, Pats had 4th and 2 from the 50. Mayo trusted his defense, but I think Belichick (and many other head coaches) would have gone for it there.

Antonio Pierce punted down 6 on 4th and 1 from the Chargers 43 with 7:15 to go and the Chargers went down and scored. Announcers were killing him for the decision. Would we be doing the same if the Bengals won 17-16?

 

[NickEsasky]

A win is a win and the team definitely looked competent so I'm pleased. The defense played an awesome game and White being a wrecking ball helps mitigate the loss of Judon and Barmore. Brissett definitely looked good enough. He made the plays he needed to. Using his legs to convert 3rd downs was refreshing to see. I just don't want it to be lost that he was one great Hunter Henry pass break up away from a backbreaking red zone INT that would have cost us 3 points and given CIN a ton of momentum. So while we can all say "Wow look, competent QB play = wins" we weren't far away from a potential disaster due to QB play.

 

[Jimbodandy]

I was surprised by the punt with 3:15 to play, Pats had 4th and 2 from the 50. Mayo trusted his defense, but I think Belichick (and many other head coaches) would have gone for it there.

Antonio Pierce punted down 6 on 4th and 1 from the Chargers 43 with 7:15 to go and the Chargers went down and scored. Announcers were killing him for the decision. Would we be doing the same if the Bengals won 17-16?

Given our defense yesterday, it was the right call. That doesn't mean that people wouldn't kill Mayo for it, had things gone differently. But even with the offense running the ball well, I feel like the odds of us stopping the Bengals from going the length of the field and getting in the end zone were higher than converting on 4th and 2 from the 50.

 

[BaseballJones]

The Pats' defense played great last year without essentially having either Judon or Gonzalez for the entire year (they missed 13 weeks each). So honestly, missing Judon isn't that huge of a deal. Missing Barmore is a bigger deal, and in game 1 they held up nicely.

 

[Curt S Loew]

I was surprised by the punt with 3:15 to play, Pats had 4th and 2 from the 50. Mayo trusted his defense, but I think Belichick (and many other head coaches) would have gone for it there.

Antonio Pierce punted down 6 on 4th and 1 from the Chargers 43 with 7:15 to go and the Chargers went down and scored. Announcers were killing him for the decision. Would we be doing the same if the Bengals won 17-16?

Big difference. Raiders were down 6 and at the opponent 43.

 

[Saints Rest]

View attachment 88296

I would have called it the Jonas Gray attack, but I couldn't remember his name. The football version of the One Hit Wonder.

 

[Curt S Loew]

I would have called it the Jonas Gray attack, but I couldn't remember his name. The football version of the One Hit Wonder.

That performance got him booked as the Grand Marshall of the Cape Cod St. Patrick's Day Parade. He was a long afterthought by the time the parade happened.

That parade is kinda famous for stuff like that. A long list of celebrity has beens. It's kind of funny.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

That performance got him booked as the Grand Marshall of the Cape Cod St. Patrick's Day Parade. He was a long afterthought by the time the parade happened.

That parade is kinda famous for stuff like that. A long list of celebrity has beens. It's kind of funny.

I am guessing that he wasn't alarmed too much by that.

 

[Salva135]

I think you are off here. I don't think what we saw yesterday was in line with what we saw last year. Yesterday was a disciplined squad executing at a high level. There is a clear lack of talent especially on offense (I would argue the defense is not devoid of top talent, they good). The problem with Bill is the team was no longer executing like they did yesterday. They had a QB go backwards from his rookie year, you had WRs degrade, and the special teams was a mess.

Creating a culture of execution and accountability is what worked for the Patriots for years. I think Bill had just lost the theme. That said this team is not a contender however they can certainly start building the foundation of that

This is a tough post to swallow, but I agree. Last year wasn't just about a bad QB - that team, and the one before it, was undisciplined and straight up outcoached on a weekly basis. It was as if they weren't even trying. This team came in and tried to win that game. I haven't seen that in a long time.

 

[joe dokes]

A win is a win and the team definitely looked competent so I'm pleased. The defense played an awesome game and White being a wrecking ball helps mitigate the loss of Judon and Barmore. Brissett definitely looked good enough. He made the plays he needed to. Using his legs to convert 3rd downs was refreshing to see. I just don't want it to be lost that he was one great Hunter Henry pass break up away from a backbreaking red zone INT that would have cost us 3 points and given CIN a ton of momentum. So while we can all say "Wow look, competent QB play = wins" we weren't far away from a potential disaster due to QB play.

There are probably a bunch of plays in every game that decide the outcome. While this is close to "if Jacoby Brissett wasn't Jacoby Brissett" territory......if the throws that ball another yard, Henry makes the TD catch in the corner. He also rushed 7 times. A less competent QB might have turned that into 5 rushes and 2 INTs.

This team is probably not going to score a lot of points, so I'm guessing they'll be "one bad play from losing" in nearly every win they get.

 

[Bowhemian]

I am guessing that he wasn't alarmed too much by that.

This is terrific message boarding

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

There are probably a bunch of plays in every game that decide the outcome. While this is close to "if Jacoby Brissett wasn't Jacoby Brissett" territory......if the throws that ball another yard, Henry makes the TD catch in the corner. He also rushed 7 times. A less competent QB might have turned that into 5 rushes and 2 INTs.

This team is probably not going to score a lot of points, so I'm guessing they'll be "one bad play from losing" in nearly every win they get.

Yeah, 10 of 15 games in week 1 so far were one score games. That’s just the way it is in the modern NFL.

 

[BusRaker]

Well hopefully JM/AVP will be up change up the game plans or Seattle will be feasting in the box next weekend. We need to be a new team each week in a league that watches so much film. The over/under of 40.5 is a bit high (I don't see either team scoring 20) but it is still a very winnable game. Seattle held Denver RB's to 64 yards on 20 attempts so I think we're going to need Hunter / Hooper to step up in our blue-collar offense.

 

[Curt S Loew]

I am guessing that he wasn't alarmed too much by that.

Yeah. He didn't get alarmed very often. It's really too bad he couldn't catch on with the Chargers. It may have helped him.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Well hopefully JM/AVP will be up change up the game plans or Seattle will be feasting in the box next weekend. We need to be a new team each week in a league that watches so much film. The over/under of 40.5 is a bit high (I don't see either team scoring 20) but it is still a very winnable game. Seattle held Denver RB's to 64 yards on 20 attempts so I think we're going to need Hunter / Hooper to step up in our blue-collar offense.

I'm sure that they'll change up the game plan somewhat. They threw it 40% of the time and ran it 60% of the time. They won't get away with that most weeks, let alone every week. AVP is a smart guy. What they need to figure out is how to protect a QB when dropping back 35 times. Strategery indeed.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

Yeah. He didn't get alarmed very often. It's really too bad he couldn't catch on with the Chargers. It may have helped him.

As a UDFA, he wasn't plugged in to all of the available resources.

 

[joe dokes]

I'm sure that they'll change up the game plan somewhat. They threw it 40% of the time and ran it 60% of the time. They won't get away with that most weeks, let alone every week. AVP is a smart guy. What they need to figure out is how to protect a QB when dropping back 35 times. Strategery indeed.

That's what I expect. There were posters here pointing out the Bengals' sub-par running D all week, so it's no surprise that that was the Pats' first line of attack.

 

[mwonow]

As a UDFA, he wasn't plugged in to all of the available resources.

It's tough when your career dongles by a thread.

 

[brendan f]

Playaction: I didn't watch much of the preseason, so I'm not sure if this was much of a change, or if it's generally not something Van Pelt wants to do or that Brissett likes to do, but did they run playaction once against the Bengals?

Van Pelt is big on running the ball and creating yardage off of play action, so i think you'll absolutely see more of it soon. It's an open question as to why they didn't use it more in this game but it's an essential part of his system.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Van Pelt is big on running the ball and creating yardage off of play action, so i think you'll absolutely see more of it soon. It's an open question as to why they didn't use it more in this game but it's an essential part of his system.

Simple answer imo is that they didn't need it. Owning time of possession and jamming the ball repeatedly is fun shit.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

I will go back and review the DBR footage, but I think there were a number of "soft" play fakes- I don't know if that is a football term or not. But Brissett didn't necessarily drop straight back on a pass, but also didn't stick his hand into the RB's stomach. So his drop back was "he could be handing off?" -- and from all my years playing side yard football after a big turkey dinner, I can tell you that half-step is all you need sometimes.

 

[jbupstate]

Awesome to win yesterday and such an enjoyable start of the season.

But I think scoring first and/or having a lead is huge for this team. It allows them to pound the ball and run clock. We still do not have a stout group of offensive linemen or a group of play makers at wide receiver.

Playing a clean game with fewer penalties also does not put the offense behind the chains. This gives JB the opportunity to manage the game and not have to do too much.

I think if the Pats get down two scores or get a penalty on first down (1 and 20) the more
screens we will see to go along with jitters for the OLine pass blocking. Next opponent will plan to take RS out of the game… who will step up on offense?

Captain Obvious for sure.

What a nice, unexpected win on the road against a quality opponent. confidence is a great thing for a team and a win next week might really have players feeling this can happen.

 

[Dahabenzapple2]

I was surprised by the punt with 3:15 to play, Pats had 4th and 2 from the 50. Mayo trusted his defense, but I think Belichick (and many other head coaches) would have gone for it there.

Antonio Pierce punted down 6 on 4th and 1 from the Chargers 43 with 7:15 to go and the Chargers went down and scored. Announcers were killing him for the decision. Would we be doing the same if the Bengals won 17-16?

This was the stupidest decision I’ve seen in a very long time

 

[rodderick]

No way Bill goes for it there.