Patriots re-hired Dante Scarnecchia as OL coach
- Thread starter soxhop411
- Start date
A little surprised. I know they got lit up by Denver but they looked pretty good for what they had for most of the year. Especially with so many line combos.
Tough life following in Dante's footsteps. This move doesn't surprise me all that much, except for the fact that the Pats rarely seem to make these types of fall guy moves after poor performances.
I assume that means Bill was dissatisfied with him all season, because we've had units fail before but I don't recall any position coach being canned a day after said failure.
Agreed. My sense was that he made things work pretty well, given the shifting personnel. At least until yesterday.
Seemed like everyone was very concerned about him and the line early on, but then things stabilized.
Seemed like everyone was very concerned about him and the line early on, but then things stabilized.
I mean I know this might seem reactionary, and he lost his best offensive lineman back in week 5, but this unit sucked ass for a lot of the year. They had a ton of players in there that did not perform up to standard.
Of course, this is just going to bring on a bunch of criticism of Bill the GM, saying that it's his fault for sticking Googe with Cannon and Kline and Fleming. I can't imagine this decision wasn't a good amount of time coming, though.
Of course, this is just going to bring on a bunch of criticism of Bill the GM, saying that it's his fault for sticking Googe with Cannon and Kline and Fleming. I can't imagine this decision wasn't a good amount of time coming, though.
It had to be either him or Tessio (I watched the Godfather chronological epic film this weekend). So, in this case, Clemenza got whacked.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/celebrating-what-is.11062/page-2#post-1482024
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/celebrating-what-is.11062/page-2#post-1482024
I was just! coming here to post blaming Dante Scarnecchia.
Dante why did you leave us in our time of need?!?!
Dante why did you leave us in our time of need?!?!
Wow. I just spent the last half hour on the rowing machine wondering how well he had actually done. Was last year's good performance just a carry over from Dante? But he was featured in the "Do Your Job" show, so I figured BB must trust him at some level. And Andrews and Mason certainly showed a lot of positives for two rookies.
Yeah, the line was really bad all year. Early on Brady had to make a lot of things happen with his feet, which isn't ideal. They never seemed to get a powerful run game going -- Yes they lost Blount, but in the past they could stick any RB back there and he'd be fine so long as he didn't fumble. As for the personnel, maybe he didn't have much to work with, but you have to imagine he advised BB on drafting and signing them too.
Maybe Belichick follows Jeff Howe:
Jeff Howe @jeffphowe 10m10 minutes ago
I just tracked 25 hits on Tom Brady. Twenty. Five.
Jeff Howe @jeffphowe 10m10 minutes ago
I just tracked 25 hits on Tom Brady. Twenty. Five.
So, when the producers of the Do Your Job show asked Bill for permission to interview his coaches, do you think he could have said yes, everyone but DeGuglielmo?
It also doesn't seem like some of the relatively young depth guys that the team had to rely on (Cannon, Fleming, maybe even Stork being examples) have been trending up in terms of their development.
Mike Garafolo @MikeGarafolo 16s16 seconds ago
Mike Garafolo Retweeted Ian Rapoport
He was telling friends for a few weeks he feared he might be out of a job. This wasn't a one-day deal.
Mike Garafolo Retweeted Ian Rapoport
He was telling friends for a few weeks he feared he might be out of a job. This wasn't a one-day deal.
I mean I get Solder went out but you still have drafted players at all 5 spots, and then Cannon. Maybe it's a personnel issue more than a coaching issue, but you don't have a 1st round draft pick this year, and its going to be difficult to find real quality talent in free agency. It clearly wasn't acceptable to run this back next year with the same personnel and coaching and just hope it gets better with one of the sports single most valuable assets standing back there ready to die.
.
Yeah - after that posted that I realized it was stupid. But it did cross my mind. Oxygen deprivation from the exercise I hope.
After yesterday, this wasn't shocking. The line graded out as a straight F when a C-, maybe even a D+, would have put them in the Super Bowl. Injuries and all, some of it has to be on the coaching. I didn't see the youngsters improving down the stretch.
Googs did a pretty good job last year. He was lauded for the O-line protecting Brady against Seattle. The lack of talent due to inexperience and injury was apparent and yet he gets fired. I'm not sure anyone else could have done better with the group he worked with coming into yesterday. Now yesterday changed things(obviously) for Bill, but let's not sit here and pretend he had a stellar unit and they underperformed.
MMQB, the day after the KC game
COACH OF THE WEEK
Dave DeGugliemo, offensive line coach, New England. For a month or more, the biggest question around the Patriots was the New England offensive line, which DeGuglielmo and offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels have juggled for two months. New England used six left tackles in the regular season, for instance. And Saturday, the New England offensive line kept Brady incredibly clean against a very good pass rush, a defense that held foes to 11.6 points per game over its 11-game winning streak. New England’s line allowed zero sacks with two quarterback knockdowns on 48 Brady pass drops (42 passes, six scrambles). How great must DeGuglielmo feel? Consider this: born in Cambridge, went to college at Boston University, coached at BU, Boston College and UConn before entering the NFL ranks—and imagine the pressure taking the reins from one of offensive-line all-timers, the retired Dante Scarnecchia? All in all, a good night and a very good two seasons for DeGuglielmo.
COACH OF THE WEEK
Dave DeGugliemo, offensive line coach, New England. For a month or more, the biggest question around the Patriots was the New England offensive line, which DeGuglielmo and offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels have juggled for two months. New England used six left tackles in the regular season, for instance. And Saturday, the New England offensive line kept Brady incredibly clean against a very good pass rush, a defense that held foes to 11.6 points per game over its 11-game winning streak. New England’s line allowed zero sacks with two quarterback knockdowns on 48 Brady pass drops (42 passes, six scrambles). How great must DeGuglielmo feel? Consider this: born in Cambridge, went to college at Boston University, coached at BU, Boston College and UConn before entering the NFL ranks—and imagine the pressure taking the reins from one of offensive-line all-timers, the retired Dante Scarnecchia? All in all, a good night and a very good two seasons for DeGuglielmo.
I am shocked by this - I mean, during his run in N.E. this guy won a Super Bowl 50% of the time! What the hell does he have to - just kidding, please hire Trickett (or anyone else). I appreciate whatever he brought to the table, but Goodge's OL, even last year, wasn't great. Brady deserves better than that, especially as the sunset looms.
Just shows that outsiders, no matter how thorough or well-intentioned, really have no clue. Love the decisiveness and the admission that the status quo is not okay.
The worst run blocking unit in the NFL to my eye paired with the very poor pass blocking performances scattered throughout the year. I liked DeGuglielmo's personality in the SB49 features but from reading the tea leaves I'm glad. Gives me hope that BB thinks they may have the talent in the right hands.
When you think back to last year, Brady got pummeled against the Ravens too, and despite Bennett being the focus of the OL game plan in the Super Bowl, they couldn't block him either. They also couldn't really run last year in the playoffs aside from Indy.
Agreed. I saw no improvement from anyone on the unit---Stork, if anything, backslid this year (acknowledging injuries) and the only rookie who kind of-sort of showed something was Mason.
The unit was horrendous the last third of the year + little sign of development = unemployment
I've no idea about the nuts and bolts of O-line construction, BUT this O-line had about a gazillion iterations, due to injuries etc. with guys playing new positions. And the recent additions have been mostly mid-round draft picks. Compared to the #1s and 2s investment in the D-line/ front 7, is it surprising that the O-line was the one weak link?
This smells like the org needed a fall-guy for yesterday's shit-show.
This smells like the org needed a fall-guy for yesterday's shit-show.
Just curious---can you think of other examples of this Patriots management team feeling the need to have a fall guy for anything, ever?
Except that's not the MO of this team, ever. AND this team has excelled (or at least competed) armed with above average OL despite having a lot of mid round picks playing plenty of minutes. Meanwhile, theres a history and a present of some high picks used to build the line:
Solder (1st), Volmer (2nd), Matt Light (2nd), Mankins (1st)
Good call, though, Goodge's mom.
Solder (1st), Volmer (2nd), Matt Light (2nd), Mankins (1st)
Good call, though, Goodge's mom.
If anyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, it's BB. He's way too experienced and secure in his position to make someone a scapegoat. I'm sure his reasons go well beyond yesterday's game and fully recognize the various challenges and injuries the line has endured this season. I'm guessing this has as much to do with process as results.
Nope. This organizational move is unusual, and out of the norm. But so was the poster boy getting rag dolled on TV for 3 hours, But given the reasons I mentioned and challenges that Gugs faced, I'm just speculating about organizational behavior and the the almost universal need to CYA.
I think it is more likely that Googs hit on Belichick's girlfriend (or on Belichick himself!) and that is why he was fired than I do that Belichick felt the need to CYA about yesterday's loss.
But I guess I don't know either way...
But I guess I don't know either way...
I agree 100%. The only thing I find concerning is that they seem to struggle bringing in veteran coaches from outside the organization. Dom Capers is another example. Belichick seems to like to build from within and when he deviates from that, the guys tend not to last very long.
The first name that jumped out at me for a replacement is Brian Ferentz, the OL coach at Iowa. He was an assistant with the Pats from 2008-11 and has been working with his dad Kirk, an OL coach under Belichick in Cleveland and a legendary groomer of offensive linemen. Not sure he wants to jump to the NFL, but if he's thinking about it, seems like an obvious fit.
BB has no need to cover his ass. He's the greatest coach of his generation and has won a Superbowl in the past 12 months. The idea that this is a CYA measure is ludicrous. There is zero precedent for BB scapegoating coordinators. If anything, he has been extremely patient.
Whether its fair or not is almost impossible to gauge from the outside. It may be philosophical differences, a poor cultural fit, perceived or actual insubordination, or a host of other things. If Gugs really was telling people he was concerned about his job several weeks ago, that is a pretty strong indication that he was not fired because of one terrible game.
Whether its fair or not is almost impossible to gauge from the outside. It may be philosophical differences, a poor cultural fit, perceived or actual insubordination, or a host of other things. If Gugs really was telling people he was concerned about his job several weeks ago, that is a pretty strong indication that he was not fired because of one terrible game.
They did. Could have been true.
Anyway I don't think Deguglielmo was a fall guy. I think BB thinks even an awful OL ought to be able to keep QB from getting hit 25 times.
Or, this was TB12 giving DeGuglielmo the David Blatt treatment.
Pees himself has said that. Obviously, there could be more to it, but it's hardly an example of a scapegoat as he wasn't even visibly fired---taking away any benefit of having a scapegoat.
For SN, not sure that Capers is a failure---he left on his own after a year to be DC in Green Bay. Why do you think he didn't get what they each thought they'd get out of the 'marriage?' I agree he didn't have any visible impact, but I'm also not certain what was expected there as he wasn't DC. There was a lot of speculation this was a one-year gig for him all along. Am I missing something there?
I'd like to circle back to the notion expressed above that the Patriots might believe a different coach could get a better result from the same group of players. We know that Vollmer and Solder, when healthy, are "good enough." So, are we certain that the interior lineman and (as important, as we just saw) the reserves across the line really have the ability to improve?