Patriots fans, Yankees fans, and always being greedy for more

[moonshotmanny]

I was ecstatic over the Pats first win. Still remember my son calling me from MA (I was in NY), that he was standing outside crying like a baby because the Pats won the SuperBowl. Then the Sox won the WS not long after. I was happy, and could have been happy, with just those wins. Then the Pats kept winning, and then the Red Sox kept winning. Yeah, I love the winning!

At this point, every time the Pats make it to the SuperBowl, I want them to win. I am not all that upset if they get bounced out before then. Hate when they lose the SB, but like others have said, I was happy for Eagles fans last year. Especially since Eagles were a likable team and there was a great story in Foles. I used to like the Giants until they beat the Pats twice, now I root for them to lose. Which is kind of strange as I don't feel the same way about the Mets for '86, and that loss was hard to take.

I really don't hate other teams, but there are teams I don't like the Pats to lose to. Steelers, Colts, Jets and Ravens. Of course, don't like the Sox losing to the Yankees! Now that the Pats are going to the SuperBowl again, as a Pats fan I am of course happy, but feel kind of sad for KC and would have loved to watch Mahomes going against the Rams.

 

[DourDoerr]

The greed is there. I want more. But I also recognize the clock is running on Brady and BB. So yeah, I want to win now again and again before time runs out.

Last night, I went to play basketball here in Berkeley with some guys that I've been playing with for 15 years or so. I'm the only Patriots fan. As I walk into the gym the game suddenly stops, everyone turns and gives me a standing O. Naturally the arms shoot up like Rocky and I'm blowing kisses left and right and everybody's laughing.

I don't rub it in when we win, I acknowledge when we're outplayed, I provide facts on Spygate and Deflategate only when prompted and I share my enthusiasm for great play. At this point - even if there isn't a shared rooting interest - there's a shared understanding of what the Pats are doing and why it's special. That gesture in return last night will stay with me a long time. Oh, and I hate Peyton Manning.

 

[snowmanny]

One thing that is notable is how not a single mention of measuring the balls or air pressure or procedures or etc etc has been mentioned since it was so big a deal that they had to take four games away from the GOAT.. It's like they're embarrassed to bring it up again other than to say something about cheating. That there's no other evidence of air pressures taken at any other games ever is proof enough to me that it was all bs.

If the psi of the NE balls was 12.5 in the locker room Sunday then they were under 10.0 on the field in that cold.

http://physics.bu.edu/~schmaltz/deflate.html

 

[Conigliaro's Potential]

Just for the record, when the Patriots won their first Super Bowl in 2002, that was one of my greatest experiences as a sports fan - I'd grown very fond of the Boston teams from my 5-6 years living in and around the city, and I was almost as happy when the Patriots upset the Rams as I might have been if the Falcons had won. (It helped that Mike Martz was so easy to dislike.) And I was equally ecstatic for the Sox in 2004, after being heartbroken for them in 2003. Now, though...I don't actively dislike the Patriots, and I've certainly taken their side re: Deflategate and a lot of the other nonsense issues in the past - and I was always on Team Brady in the Tom vs. Peyton debate - but let's just say I found myself really, really wanting the Chiefs to win on Sunday, and I'll almost certainly be rooting for the Rams in the Super Bowl.

I think in my ideal world, every team would win the Super Bowl once every 32 years: not in a preordained way, such that fans felt like they were taking turns, but it would just happen that way. Everyone would feel hope, ecstasy and desolation in equal quantities, and nobody would feel superior (or inferior) to anyone else just because they are a sports fan. To paraphrase an old Emo Philips joke, why be prejudiced against anyone because of their race or nationality or creed or sporting affiliation...when there are so many real reasons to hate others?

 

[Al Zarilla]

Just for the record, when the Patriots won their first Super Bowl in 2002, that was one of my greatest experiences as a sports fan - I'd grown very fond of the Boston teams from my 5-6 years living in and around the city, and I was almost as happy when the Patriots upset the Rams as I might have been if the Falcons had won. (It helped that Mike Martz was so easy to dislike.) And I was equally ecstatic for the Sox in 2004, after being heartbroken for them in 2003. Now, though...I don't actively dislike the Patriots, and I've certainly taken their side re: Deflategate and a lot of the other nonsense issues in the past - and I was always on Team Brady in the Tom vs. Peyton debate - but let's just say I found myself really, really wanting the Chiefs to win on Sunday, and I'll almost certainly be rooting for the Rams in the Super Bowl.

I think in my ideal world, every team would win the Super Bowl once every 32 years: not in a preordained way, such that fans felt like they were taking turns, but it would just happen that way. Everyone would feel hope, ecstasy and desolation in equal quantities, and nobody would feel superior (or inferior) to anyone else just because they are a sports fan. To paraphrase an old Emo Philips joke, why be prejudiced against anyone because of their race or nationality or creed or sporting affiliation...when there are so many real reasons to hate others?

The Rams won XXXIV. They’re good.

 

[DJnVa]

The Rams won XXXIV. They’re good.

Read story today about how St. Louis fans HATE this Super Bowl--the team that left them against the team that beat them.

 

[jaytftwofive]

I'll hate the Steelers regardless of what the Pats do. It goes back to the 70's. I'm convinced they pioneered the use of steroids, were dirty as fuck, benefited from the Rooney's place in the NFL hierarchy and created just as many bandwagon fans, if not more, than the Cowboys or Packers.

Come on? In the 70's you hated the Steelers more then the Raiders??? Ben Drieth, Sugar Bear Hamilton -Stabler call? Jack Tatum-Darryl Stingley??? The 85 playoff game when Matt Millen swung his helmet at Sullivan's son after the Pats playoff win?? And over the Dolphins where we didn't win a game for 16 years??? I dislike the Steelers now because of their fans and Big Ben but back in the 70's they were new and easy to root for. Especially over the Raiders and Fins. I find it hard to believe you hated them over Raiders and Fins back in the 70's.

 

[jaytftwofive]

To me the no 1 hate or disdain I have is Lakers 1A, Yanks 1B. Habs 2. In football there are the Ravens and Dolphins and Cowboys and Colts and Steelers. Can't hate the Jets, they've been so bad lately. But it doesn't compare to the history of the hate of those other three teams I put one , two and three. Any of you baby boomers and younger agree????? And as far as the worst chamber of horrors for Boston fans. Absolutely the old Forum in Montreal.

 

[jaytftwofive]

And the question I have to this poster is.....Would you rather be loveable losers??? Or win and be hated??? Come on!!!

 

[Bergs]

Come on? In the 70's you hated the Steelers more then the Raiders??? Ben Drieth, Sugar Bear Hamilton -Stabler call? Jack Tatum-Darryl Stingley??? The 85 playoff game when Matt Millen swung his helmet at Sullivan's son after the Pats playoff win?? And over the Dolphins where we didn't win a game for 16 years??? I dislike the Steelers now because of their fans and Big Ben but back in the 70's they were new and easy to root for. Especially over the Raiders and Fins. I find it hard to believe you hated them over Raiders and Fins back in the 70's.

I'm glad you're still with us.

 

[jaytftwofive]

As a 51 year-old "long-suffering" Sox-Pats-Warriors fan, if circa 2001 you had offered me ONE GUARANTEED TITLE among my three sad-sack teams over the next 18 years, I would have taken that deal without further questions. (Full disclosure: I'm slightly less amped about football than the other two sports, but still would have happily taken one Pats title).

12 championships later (and counting?), there's a fair measure of "slight embarrassment and not a big deal if they lose." At the same time, with the Pats and Warriors in particular (the Sox don't get nearly the same level of national antipathy), it's hard not to occasionally want to return some of the hate. Hi there, Max Kellerman.

Mike
Wilbon was way worse then Kellerman yesterday. Did you see PTI?? He said Saints and Pats didn't deserve to be in because of bad ref calls. At least Kellerman said Pats deserve to be in....Brady basher that he is. Wilbon looked like he was ready to kill Kornheiser when he praised Brady and Pats for the victory.

 

[SoxFanInCali]

Read story today about how St. Louis fans HATE this Super Bowl--the team that left them against the team that beat them.

As a lifelong LA to St. Louis back to LA Rams fan who was at Super Bowl XXXIV, the one thing that made me cringe during the celebration was Georgia Frontiere saying that the win proved they made the right choice moving to St. Louis. I am SO glad that I no longer have to explain why I root for a team from that city.

This one is cool because not only is it a chance to get the Pats back for XXXVI, but it's the first time the LA Rams have been in the Super Bowl since I watched Vince Ferragamo come up short against the Steel Curtain in XIV when I was 8.

 

[jaytftwofive]

I'm glad you're still with us.

I go back to the Holovak and Clive Rush years. Watching AFL highlights of Babe Parilli on Saturday mornings.

 

[Preacher]

I have no doubt that the NFL took measurements and REALLY didn't like what they saw.

Yeah, what happened to that year of data where they measured balls before the game and at halftime? They did a year long study and didn't release any results. That's odd.

 

[sheamonu]

I confess - I try to find a way to actively dislike every team we play (hate is too strong a word, but, to be honest, "actively dislike" is probably too mild). With some it's easy - the Jets for example. But once the game's over I can let go. The Rams aren't too difficult to find a hook. First they're from LA, which is home to the Lakers and birthed the greatest chant in Boston sport's history ("Yankees suck" is unimaginative, but "Beat LA" - especially when it was directed towards the 76er's, is historic). Their former home tried to steal the Pats from us, then stole the Rams, and then didn't even keep the freaking team. What's that all about? Finally, they are coached by some kid just out of junior high. Seriously, his biggest concern is that he might get a massive zit just before the Super Bowl. How can they even pretend to challenge us. The nerve.

 

[trotsplits]

Come on? In the 70's you hated the Steelers more then the Raiders??? Ben Drieth, Sugar Bear Hamilton -Stabler call? Jack Tatum-Darryl Stingley??? The 85 playoff game when Matt Millen swung his helmet at Sullivan's son after the Pats playoff win?? And over the Dolphins where we didn't win a game for 16 years??? I dislike the Steelers now because of their fans and Big Ben but back in the 70's they were new and easy to root for. Especially over the Raiders and Fins. I find it hard to believe you hated them over Raiders and Fins back in the 70's.

I hear you. But as a Michigan alum, I only hopped on the Pats when Brady KO'd the Greatest Show.

 

[reggiecleveland]

Sadly the disrespect shown the Pats gets me emotionally invested in them winning.

The era of media we are in means B and B do not get the reverence or even respect they deserve. Walsh and Montana were treated like gods for half the success in an era without a salary cap. Even in the Laker Celtic rivalry talking heads didn't disparage Bird or Magic. Fools like Arsenio Hall were shut down, by Magic himself, when it did happen. The Spygate , deflategate stuff has stuck like so many other urban myths (Al Gore said he invented the internet, Mitt Romney was an extreme right winger, vaccines cause autism) that I just want the Pats to win on more time to shut people up.

 

[djbayko]

Yeah, what happened to that year of data where they measured balls before the game and at halftime? They did a year long study and didn't release any results. That's odd.

Wasn’t it really a change in the rules? Sure, they might have treated it as a year long study behind closed doors, but the stated purpose was added security and integrity of the game stuff. Did they ever change the rules back? Because if not, the random ball testing should still be going on, right? Or did they just silently drop it because everyone knows the rule change was for near-term optics only?

 

[The Big Red Kahuna]

Football: I definitely hate so many other teams it’s hard for me to settle on which I hate the most. Steelers, Jets, Ravens, Colts, Broncos, Dolphins, Redskins.

One of these things is not like the others...

 

[RG33]

I actually want to care less. I’m 43, happily married, have two great daughters, and all the winning with Boston teams. . . . . And yet, every game/season is still so fucking important in my life. I am not sure if it is a blessing or a curse. I lean towards the former.

 

[snowmanny]

As I think about it more, I think Pats fans deserve a huge amount of sympathy from the rest of the country. In a twelve year span (2006-2017) we suffered three devastating Super Bowl losses, all basically by one play, and four AFCCG losses, and two of those also were basically by one play as well. Can any other fan base point to that many so-close heartbreaking losses in big games over such a short period of time? Hopefully the suffering ends in February.

 

[j44thor]

A lot of selfish people in this thread.
No one thinking of the kids. Specifically the thousands of babies born in MA since Oct 29th 2018 that don't know what it is like to see a championship in their lifetime.

 

[uk_sox_fan]

My parents are European so I developed as a sports fan a bit later than most kids - as an 8-year old rooting for the '77 Sox. '78 broke my heart and '86 was soul-crushing, but I'd discovered the Celtics when Bird arrived and that kept me in tune to what routing for greatness could be like.

Grogan, Hannah, Tippett, Fred Marion, Stanley Morgan and Irving 'Oil Can' Fryar (with the occasional glimpses shown by Tony Eason) made the 85 season truly special. Squishing the Fish in Miami was a perfect ending to the season - shame they didn't have a Super Bowl in those days (at least as far as I remember). I do remember the flush feeling of seeing the Sox, Pats and Celtics at the top of their respective sports in 86 and thinking how lucky we Bostonians were... (how naiive of me!)

But the disappointments that came afterwards followed me as I went off to college and discovered another almost-great-but-not-quite-good-enough-to-win-the-big-game franchise - Duke basketball. Just as Sox- and Pats-haters today can't conceive of the time when the Sox were always good but never good enough and the Pats were mostly mediocre with an occasional peak of 'pretty good', Duke was always in the Final Four, but never strong enough to break through and win it all. My junior year I travelled to Denver only to see them massacred 103-73 by the unstoppable Runnin' Rebels in the Championship game. When we made it back to the Final Four for the 4th time in my 4 years at school and were slotted to play 34-0 UNLV in the Semis I went again despite 'knowing' we had as much chance of winning that game as the Pats had had of winning Super Bowl XX (ok, ok I do admit remembering that particular debacle...)

But my point of bringing up my experience at Duke is that as I drunkenly celebrated the upset by screaming 'We beat the Russians!' from the middle of some downtown Indianapolis fountain, I had no idea how quickly my team would transform from the lovable losers of 8 Final Four appearances without a championship to the most-hated dynasty in college basketball. The exact same thing would happen with the Patriots and with the Red Sox as the nation outside of non-Connecticut New England declared themselves sick of our beloved teams' success (the Sox for infiltrating their home stadiums with louder fans than they themselves could muster and the Pats for any reason they could manufacture).

So at least in my experience, the story is the same 3 times over. If you have a passionate fan base who sticks with their team through decades of heartbreak and gets rewarded with success beyond their wildest imagination, it will be hated by every other fan base out there. I'm happy to embrace the hate just as my Yankee fan friends have embraced my own. I respect others their own passion for successful franchises as long as they didn't pick their team because of the winning (e.g. Liverpool is far enough removed from their glory years that I don't mind my daughter joining her boyfriend in supporting them even though I know supporting Fulham as I do is the ethically superior thing to do).

 

[Spacemans Bong]

It still amazes me that this franchise has done this. My father, who instilled in me a crypto-and-non-crypto Boston sports fandom through summer trips back to New England every year from when I was 6 until I graduated high school, instilled in me a greater respect and love for the Boston Bruins - and he is the traitorous Montreal Canadiens fan and hence why I'm one - than the Patriots. The Pats were just....there. I remember him driving to RI one day and swinging past Foxboro so we could see the old stadium, and it was like an overgrown public high school stadium. Weirdly, and I've seen enough posts on this forum to know a lot of you will agree, they were the sad-sack old Pats even after Kraft bought the team. Maybe it's how Parcells departed, how Bledsoe always ran like someone had grafted someone else's too-small legs onto him, how Pete Carroll clapped like a doofus, but even that AFC title in 1996 didn't shake that.

Then 2001 happened. And I've been rewatching the Snow Game this past week - it is truly unbelievable to think that I was a junior in high school when this happened and he's still the quarterback - and it brings back just how remarkable it all was. This wasn't just the first Boston sports title in 15 years (which is a really long time for a city with four sports teams - only Philly had a longer drought), it was the red-headed stepchild of Boston sports stepping out into the limelight.

When I was a kid, most of my father's family rooted for the 49ers, as if they were grasping that tenuous link to get out of having to root for the Patriots. Now it's the opposite.

The sad part is you'll never see this again. The good part is that this run will get you through anything. Other than the Harbaugh interregnum, the 49ers haven't been contenders or close to it for 20 years now. But after every shitty loss, I'll fire up some Joe Montana comeback or Steve Young miracle and I'm 8 years old sitting on my couch with my dad again. It works with the 80s Celtics (who I barely have any memories of - mostly their retirements and of the Garden closing) too. It even works with the 1993 Canadiens, not that you care.

 

[BaseballJones]

Mike
Wilbon was way worse then Kellerman yesterday. Did you see PTI?? He said Saints and Pats didn't deserve to be in because of bad ref calls. At least Kellerman said Pats deserve to be in....Brady basher that he is. Wilbon looked like he was ready to kill Kornheiser when he praised Brady and Pats for the victory.

What was Wilbon's "reasoning" that the Pats didn't deserve to be in the Super Bowl? It's not like the Pats won on a gift call. They got very lucky that Ford lined up offsides, but, well, he did. It was a no-brainer call. And the roughing call? Well, just like a play later Brady threw the INT off Jules' hands and the Chiefs ended up with BETTER field position than they would have otherwise (and they scored on that possession).

So what was Wilbon talking about?

 

[TheoShmeo]

I’m 55 and my first vivid sports memories begin in around 1970. As a result, I experienced a lot of losing and near misses with the Pats (and Sox) until this century.

My kids, on the other hand, have seen almost only good times. But even they experienced one of the bigger gut punch losses — the Tyree game — along the way, together with a few other doozies.

I’m still quite greedy. I want them to win every game, and within every game, every drive and every play. I know that’s impossible but at the same time I’m wired to root for victory and don’t know any middle ground.

I’m generally a bad loser. I am not graceful in defeat and never feel good for opposing teams who beat my team or their fans. It’s admirable that some are capable of this but that’s not me.

At the same time, there are degrees. I harbored no hate for the BlackHaws or their fans after that hideous game 6 and had the Pats lost to the Chargers or Chiefs, I wold have been similarly not in the heavy hate mode. Contrast that to losses to the Giants and Eagles, when the hate was strong and frankly still is. Fuck them all.

Does that make me like a Yankees fan? Maybe. In some ways. Then again, I’m not sure fans across the board are truly all that different. We all want to win and of course there are vast differences among fans in each fan group, as the replies in this thread make clear.

I do think that, in general, Yankees fans seem a bit more entitled that I think Pats fans generally are. But who knows if that’s actually true or if my biases make me want to think that.

 

[DJnVa]

. And the roughing call? Well, just like a play later Brady threw the INT off Jules' hands and the Chiefs ended up with BETTER field position than they would have otherwise (and they scored on that possession).

So what was Wilbon talking about?

Eh?

The roughing the passer call changed what would have been a 3rd and 7 into a 1st and 10 and the Pats scored on the drive to make it 24-21.

You're confusing it with the overturn on the muffed punt, where Brady threw an INT a play later.

 

[am_dial]

You're not making that up. There were very few home games shown on TV in the 80s, right up until Kraft bought the team and the sellout streak started in '94. I grew up in Foxboro. Lots of fathers in my neighborhood had season tickets but rarely took us kids because the place was such a wretched hive of scum and villainy. Home games were almost never on TV. My buddies and I would play football in someone's yard on Sundays while we listened to the Pats on the radio.

Maybe I'm making this up -- since I do remember how rarely home games were shown on TV then due to the blackout rules -- but didn't the Boston news channels often film their own footage, taken at field level, to use for highlights of these non-televised games? I'm thinking this was c. 1985, 1986.

 

[BaseballJones]

Eh?

The roughing the passer call changed what would have been a 3rd and 7 into a 1st and 10 and the Pats scored on the drive to make it 24-21.

You're confusing it with the overturn on the muffed punt, where Brady threw an INT a play later.

Indeed I am. Good catch. On the roughing, there was clear DPI on the DB covering Edelman, and no flag. So instead of a 15-yard personal foul it should have been like a 15-yard DPI.

 

[Royal Reader]

So I voted "Hate the rivals" stuff.

I hate Pats haters in their capacity as Pats haters, but don't hate the teams they root for specifically, because it's not like affiliation to any specific non-rival team causes Pats hate. The biggest haters I know are Giants, Bears, and Cardinals fans. How the fuck can anyone work up the energy to hate the Arizona Cardinals? I will always and forever utterly despise the New York Jets, just from the years of hearing their fans saying stuff like "Screw the score, just injure Brady" "Play Smear the Queer with their Quarterback" "Brady is a fag who takes it up the ass in his Ugg boots". Go die in a fire. I'd probably hate the Bills in the same way if I noticed they existed.

I'm pretty zen about the regular season. All I ever wanted in sports post-2007 was to see B&B get one more to secure their place in the pantheon. When they were 28-3 down (sorry to bring this up CP but y'know) it felt like they just weren't the better team and that was something I could live with in light of all they've given me. Then obviously the incredible comeback was a beautiful moment because of how unexpected it was, even in light of what they'd done before. Then came Philly and I didn't even mind the loss. Obviously it'd have been great if they won, but it's not like that loss tarnishes Brady's legacy when he threw for 500 yards. They got kinda unlucky on a couple of close but defensible ump calls, and Doug Pederson showed sufficient boldness that you don't begrudge the Eagles their win, especially given it was their first SB championship. Certainly not one of those "WHERE THE FUCK WAS BUTLER!!!!!" guys.

I could have lived with losing normally to the Chiefs, but the way that game actually went, it was clear they were in a great position to win it, but the combination of the picks and the fourth-and-one and giving up a FG with 39 seconds on the clock meant that had they lost, it'd have felt like an epic squander/gut punch, so I was every bit as nervous by the end as I had been during the Seahawks SB.

I guess the TL/DR version now is "They don't always have to be the best team, but it still hurts like hell if they blow it in a gut punch manner."

 

[Beale13]

What was Wilbon's "reasoning" that the Pats didn't deserve to be in the Super Bowl? It's not like the Pats won on a gift call. They got very lucky that Ford lined up offsides, but, well, he did. It was a no-brainer call. And the roughing call? Well, just like a play later Brady threw the INT off Jules' hands and the Chiefs ended up with BETTER field position than they would have otherwise (and they scored on that possession).

So what was Wilbon talking about?

He first listed the muffed punt, the pass interference, and the Dee Ford offsides. He eventually conceded that the offsides was the right call, never mentioned the muffed punt again (probably because it can't contribute to any arguments about the Patriots not earning the victory even if you believe it shouldn't have been overturned), and obsessed over the roughing the passer call. His argument basically boiled down to the idea that the Patriots shouldn't be in the Super Bowl because of a roughing the passer call on a 2nd and 7 that gave them 15 yards and a first down with 7 minutes to go in the game.

I've always liked Wilbon even though he has some bad blind spots (it's painful listening to him talk about analytics in general and the win/loss pitching statistic specifically), but his argument here was his absolute low point. It was petulant and irrational to the point that I was actually embarrassed for him. It seemed like Kornheiser was as well, or at the very least was really taken aback. I've seen all the haters and anti-Patriots arguments, but this one was just strange.

 

[Royal Reader]

He first listed the muffed punt, the pass interference, and the Dee Ford offsides. He eventually conceded that the offsides was the right call, never mentioned the muffed punt again (probably because it can't contribute to any arguments about the Patriots not earning the victory even if you believe it shouldn't have been overturned), and obsessed over the roughing the passer call. His argument basically boiled down to the idea that the Patriots shouldn't be in the Super Bowl because of a roughing the passer call on a 2nd and 7 that gave them 15 yards and a first down with 7 minutes to go in the game.

I've always liked Wilbon even though he has some bad blind spots (it's painful listening to him talk about analytics in general and the win/loss pitching statistic specifically), but his argument here was his absolute low point. It was petulant and irrational to the point that I was actually embarrassed for him. It seemed like Kornheiser was as well, or at the very least was really taken aback. I've seen all the haters and anti-Patriots arguments, but this one was just strange.

Friends who are as neutral as anyone can be on the Pats came away thinking "Every marginal call" went the Patriots way.

 

[Dan Murfman]

I listened to him on Tony’s podcast that was recorded in the morning and he railed on the roughing the passer and said it happened on 3 and 7 and they would have punted on a drive they scored a TD. After he was gone someone said it was actually 2nd down. Tony tried to correct him on PTI but he was so worked up I don’t even think he heard him.

 

[BaseballJones]

He first listed the muffed punt, the pass interference, and the Dee Ford offsides. He eventually conceded that the offsides was the right call, never mentioned the muffed punt again (probably because it can't contribute to any arguments about the Patriots not earning the victory even if you believe it shouldn't have been overturned), and obsessed over the roughing the passer call. His argument basically boiled down to the idea that the Patriots shouldn't be in the Super Bowl because of a roughing the passer call on a 2nd and 7 that gave them 15 yards and a first down with 7 minutes to go in the game.

I've always liked Wilbon even though he has some bad blind spots (it's painful listening to him talk about analytics in general and the win/loss pitching statistic specifically), but his argument here was his absolute low point. It was petulant and irrational to the point that I was actually embarrassed for him. It seemed like Kornheiser was as well, or at the very least was really taken aback. I've seen all the haters and anti-Patriots arguments, but this one was just strange.

Well that's just freaking idiotic of him. The muffed punt (1) was the CORRECT call. When every angle was shown, it was clear that it was really *close*, but the ball never, not once, actually touched Edelman. And (2) it was irrelevant. Like 2 plays later Brady threw the tipped pick and KC went on to score. As the announcers were saying, "Ball don't lie." (except that it quite often does) The point being that the Patriots getting the ball - the correct call - sure, that was a "break" in that Edelman was lucky it didn't hit him, but...well...it DIDN'T hit him. And that it had no effect on the outcome of the game.

The Dee Ford offside...honestly how can anyone complain about that. He was like two full feet offside. Not even close. Sure, the Patriots caught a break in that Ford was an idiot, but so what? Players make mistakes all the time, and often times, mistakes that cost their team the game. Ford had one of those mistakes. How can anyone be upset at the refs or the Patriots about that?

Literally, the only other play to talk about is the roughing penalty. And yes, it was a major call, no doubt. But when you look at the WHOLE play, Julian Edelman is getting MUGGED as he crosses the middle and the refs, staring right at it, don't throw the flag. So while the roughing should NOT have been called (though if you re-watch it, it's clear that the defender's arm *does* graze the face mask on the way down...so...technically it was correct), DPI *should* have been called.

Every other play went against the Patriots:

- Two passes that were tipped ended up in KC defenders' hands (though one got overturned).
- Mahomes fumbled late in the first half and even though there were two Patriots right there, a KC player recovered. That would have been additional points for the Pats.
- Dorsett's touchdown...he got mugged and no call. Didn't impact the play because he caught it, but still...should have been called.
- JC Jackson's DPI down the right sideline...maybe technically correct but my god what a soft, weak-ass call. Especially considering...
- Berry hanging on to Gronk the WHOLE WAY, as Romo and Nantz pointed out on the replay, that Berry was literally hanging onto him the entire route. No call.
- The pick play. Dorsett being called for it just a couple of yards downfield. Ok fine, technically correct even though it was soft...but even more egregious when you consider....
- The PICK PLAY. The one where KC set a pick 4 yards downfield, a total clearing out of a defender, that led to a huge gain that led to a KC touchdown. No flag. Even though they had called NE on it earlier.

I mean, come ON. All they can point to, honestly, is the one bad roughing penalty, but even on THAT play, the refs let KC get away with egregious DPI so it shouldn't have mattered. Even Romo was pointing out that KC was holding Pats' receivers all game long, and that they were planning on the refs just not calling much. He literally said that during the broadcast. It was that obvious.

The real question is: Why am I getting so riled up over this? haha

 

[koufax32]

And now that kid in Kentucky has me squarely back in the “screw every last one of ‘em and rub every win in their faces” camp.
I’m such a small person.

 

[Bellhorn]

My sports fandom has not changed in the slightest as a result of the Patriots' success, and nor should it. Sports championships are not a homogeneous good. Every season is its own unique entity, and if you ever get to the point that you are "not really worrying" whether or not your team wins, to quote the OP, then it is probably time to find another hobby.

I'll grant that there is a special angst that comes with never having experienced a single championship, so there is a special element to the first one that is never recaptured by any of the others. Kind of like losing your virginity (at least that's what I hear, amirite).

 

[j-man]

i have mixed emoits its fun to root aga NE my team has allready won 3 SB and can stand to most any fanbase other than ne and maybe DAL

but the funny thing i am gonna miss u guys being the team to beat every year in the mid 9os i loved rooted aga dallas i can not tye ceterin letters on my keyboard idk why

but credit to mt kraft and bill b for crarte this us aga everyone vibe

as a yankees fan i love the other teams not like them i did not like the yanks the first 18 years of my life but 9 11 jeter and mo changed that

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

I actually swing between #2 and 4 depending on the day and mood: this particular window is eventually closing so I am greedy for as much winning as we can get now. That said, even after Belichick and Brady leave I have confidence that the Krafts will put together a competent product every year. We will still get to the playoffs on a semi-regular basis and challenge for a Super Bowl once every 5-10 years like what would classify as "successful" for any other franchise.

I sometimes find myself lashing out at "the haters", but then realize 20 years ago I was once a more frothing Yankee hater than now. With hindsight and our own Patriots dynasty, I realize my Yankee hate and jealousy over their rings was displaced (although individual arguments like Jeter being overrated and Paul O'Neill being a big baby are still valid to consider) and should have focused on the Red Sox ownership/management shortcomings through my youth in the '80s and '90s. Then in my mind I can be at ease over the Patriot hate, as the fans doing so know not where to point their anger toward.

 

[bsj]

I hate fans of any team that cling to manufactured bull shit like Deflategate. Fans of any team, including our biggest rivals, who just hate us because we always win, I can deal with. I'd feel the same way.

 

[Ale Xander]

I'm mostly liking not going to the game tomorrow because I expect, if Brady hangs around 3-4 more years, they;ll be playing in the SB 2 of the next 3 years, and I'll go to that one, in a "better" locale. So I guess the OP is On Point.

 

[lars10]

I want the Brady and Pats to have as many Super Bowls as any other team ever.

Especially since listening to Mike Francesa's 'reasoning' that Montana is better because he's never lost in the Super Bowl... Every time I just want one person to call him and ask what his record was in Championship games.. I think if they hadn't got back last year I'd be ok for someone else to have been there this year.. but now I would like the Pats to win again just so the last SB they were in was a win.

I'd also like just one of the wins to have been decisive... and this seems like it has the best chance, but it felt like that last year too...so who knows.

 

[streeter88]

Wait what? I hope this isn't the last Super Bowl that Brady is in. He's playing until he's 45 right? I hope that means at least 1 more...

 

[snowmanny]

Wait what? I hope this isn't the last Super Bowl that Brady is in. He's playing until he's 45 right? I hope that means at least 1 more...

Well that seems very "greedy," rooting for your team every year....

 

[lars10]

Wait what? I hope this isn't the last Super Bowl that Brady is in. He's playing until he's 45 right? I hope that means at least 1 more...

I meant that since they lost to philly now the last SB they were in was a loss.. if they win today the last one will be a win.. I guess it would be better to say the most recent. I’d def like them, BB and Brady to be in more.. as a Pats fan this doesn’t get old at all.