Passan reporting Lester/Gomes to the A's for Cespedes

[DJnVa]

 
This is where I'm at as well. I don't see how he fits in the "plan."

 
Maybe because we don't have the plan. The FO does.

 

[EdRalphRomero]

Is an elite arm really wasted in Fenway's LF? There is less ground to cover (meaning range is wasted) and the throws are certainly shorter. However, we have all seen wallballs turned into singles or outs frequently. Does the frequency of that opportunity equate to the decreased need to make long throws to the plate?

 

[pedroia'sboys]

 
I think you're wrong to suggest that the Front Office is an island and somehow doesn't consult with other business areas of Baseball. There's no way that someone from Marketing isn't in on some of this, at least some of the time. Baseball is a biz like anything else and if the Market Basket clusterpuff doesn't tell you that customers pay attention and matter, then I am not sure what to tell you.

In September when they're mathematically eliminated Cespedes is going to fill fenway. Only thing that matters to fans is WINNING

 

[Fred in Lynn]

Dining with Billy Beane must be an uncomfortable prospect for Ben and Theo. The man never stops staring at their food.

I envision him trying to convince them that they're really not hungry, they don't need the food and they'd benefit from letting him take it off their hands for these single-serve condiments laying around his dish, ala the infamous Omar conversations.

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

When the Red Sox secret handshake deal with Lester is revealed, it'll make Bill Belichick Spygate look like a parking ticket.

 

[bankshot1]

Saturday is "Cespedes T-shirt Day" in Oakland.

Lucky kids in Nicaragua

 

[joe dokes]

  I imagine the FO is in go-for-it mode next year and Cespedes is going to be awesome.  I'm getting more and more excited as I think about.

 
When has this FO *not* been in go-for-it-mode?
 
There are no guarantees, no mater what "mode" there is.  Sometimes it works, sometime it doesn't and you make moves.  Not to pick on this post, but "going for it" is not part of some zero-sum game.

 

[P'tucket rhymes with...]

 
Given the fact that he's just been traded to a much better hitter's park, I would suspect his agent will tell him to wait because his numbers will look better after next year.

Yup.  Sox might well find themselves in the same position next year as they were with Lester this year.  So 4/72 would essentially be the new 4/70.

 

[rodderick]

Holt
Vic/Betts
Pedey
Ortiz
Napoli
Cespedes
Middlebrooks
Bogaerts
Vaz
JBJ

That's a hell of a lineup

 
Yup, they should score a lot more runs with a 10 men lineup.

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

Has Yoenis every played RF?  His arm would sure play well there.
 
I loved the trade when I thought we could offer him arb.  Just having 2015 feels a little light.  No knock on Cespedes' talent and projectability vs. some rookie though.

Not in the majors
 
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cespeyo01.shtml
 
He doesn't impress me with enough dexterity and fielding to play the RF in Fenway. He'll be just fine playing the Monster and turning doubles into singles.

 

[BornToRun]

Barring some sort of flip, which I do not expect, this is the front office saying that this is a bump in the road and not a downturn/rebuild situation. They are keeping Uehara. Lackey may not be moved. Heck, maybe they resign Miller -- though he's probably gone. They have invested in the short term.
 
IMO what this means is that Lester will be signed this offseason. Either that or another investment in the SP market, but Lester makes the most sense since they are familiar with his medical history and the like. No surprises.
 
The elite prospect rumors also bear this out. Sure they would take an elite prospect or two and figure out the 2015 team later, but that was never on the table. So they took this alternative.

I know it isn't likely to happen and I'm trying not to get my hopes up but I feel really good about our chances of getting Jon back in FA.

 

[P'tucket rhymes with...]

I envision him trying to convince them that they're really not hungry, they don't need the food and they'd benefit from letting him take it off their hands for these single-serve condiments laying around his dish, ala the infamous Omar conversations.

...and then he takes a few bites and flips what's left for a couple fistfuls of single-serve condiments.

 

[Fred in Lynn]

 
That's a 10-man lineup (and where's Nava?)

That's what makes it so awesome.

 

[Drek717]

 
No idea at this point. I'm just lukewarm on Cespedes as a player, I guess. Particularly with only 1 more year of control.

This is not accurate to my understanding at least.
 
Cespedes only has 3 years of service time at the end of 2014.  He's signed through 2015.  He'll be arb. eligible for 2016 and 2017.  If the Sox want to extend him they'll have plenty of leverage this off-season.
 
Cespedes is a fantastic fit in Fenway.  He isn't capable of really playing CF in anything but an emergency, but he has been a positive LF in Oakland for the last two years, that is a big outfield to range over.  I could definitely see him capable of handling Fenway's RF, and if instead he plays LF his arm will make turning for two on a sharp wall ball real questionable.
 
*edit*Nevermind, apparently the A's deal has a clause where he can't be offered arbitration after next season.

 

[JimD]

Hopefully Papi can snag another ticket to Jamaica for Cespedes.

 

[Brianish]

This is not accurate to my understanding at least.
 
Cespedes only has 3 years of service time at the end of 2014.  He's signed through 2015.  He'll be arb. eligible for 2016 and 2017.  If the Sox want to extend him they'll have plenty of leverage this off-season.
 
Cespedes is a fantastic fit in Fenway.  He isn't capable of really playing CF in anything but an emergency, but he has been a positive LF in Oakland for the last two years, that is a big outfield to range over.  I could definitely see him capable of handling Fenway's RF, and if instead he plays LF his arm will make turning for two on a sharp wall ball real questionable.

 
There's a clause in his contract that releases him if he doesn't have a new contract next October. 

 

[Fred in Lynn]

I know it isn't likely to happen and I'm trying not to get my hopes up but I feel really good about our chances of getting Jon back in FA.

She's gone. Daddy tried to bore you with a sermon.

 

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

That's a 10-man lineup (and where's Nava?)

Yup, they should score a lot more runs with a 10 men lineup.

Woops. I don't know who to take out... Holt I guess?

 

[Tim Salmon]

Holt
Vic/Betts
Pedey
Ortiz
Napoli
Cespedes
Middlebrooks
Bogaerts
Vaz
JBJ

That's a hell of a lineup

 
I like your glass-half-full approach, because I see:
 
1. Due for regression
2. DL/Adjusting to league
3. Likely to improve, but not to previous levels
4. Stet
5. Stet
6. Low OBP
7. Wishful thinking
8. Nowhere to go but up
9. No complaints
10. Expectations so low, I'd settle for a .680 OPS
 
Other than modest hope for Pedroia and Bogaerts, I can't get excited for 2015 based on the lineup you posted.

 

[Harry Hooper]

Ben made the best deal he could, but I can't do cartwheels over this trip back to the future. Trading a top pitcher for a putative bopper is a formula repeatedly tried and found lacking by the Red Sox since Fenway was built.
 
Lester for the new Rob Deer is indeed meh. Hopefully Cespedes is the exception and puts up a 2015 akin to Esasky's one year in Boston.

 

[bosockboy]

Lester is going to utterly dominate in that stadium.

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

 
That's a 10-man lineup (and where's Nava?)

Holt's playing rover and Nava's your 4th OF and PH.

 

[joe dokes]

This move, considering Cespedes's contract, suggests that the Sox might be more willing to invest in a bat than an arm *right now*, which might be a reflection of where they think their system is at....*they* think that they have several just-about-major league pitchers, while they have little RH power.

 

[Stan Papi Was Framed]

Hopefully Papi can snag another ticket to Jamaica for Cespedes.

I think this satisfies Ortiz's reasonable desire for a big bat in the lineup

 

[rembrat]

Cespedes to LF is a weapon.  Keeping all wall balls to singles, stopping all potential sac flys to LF and keeping runners on 2nd from scoring on singles to LF.
 
RH power bat batting 6th helps lengthen the line up.
 
If Fenway enhances his stat line over the last 2 months, consider extending him this off-season

 
The wall takes care of keeping wall balls to singles unless they are towering shots or placed in LF-CF then even Cespedes' arm won't be a factor. 
 
I'm sorta of not feeling the trade but I like what yecul has been proposing. If Lester does return in the offseason, I can view this trade in a far more positive light but until then... meh.

 

[BornToRun]

 
I think you're wrong to suggest that the Front Office is an island and somehow doesn't consult with other business areas of Baseball. There's no way that someone from Marketing isn't in on some of this, at least some of the time. Baseball is a biz like anything else and if the Market Basket clusterpuff doesn't tell you that customers pay attention and matter, then I am not sure what to tell you.

My point is that if they really cared about what the fans thought, they probably would've extended Lester by now instead of flipping him to Oakland. I think it's pretty clear that these guys care more about building a winning team than making moves to placate the fanbase. Just my take, my apologies if I expressed it a little bluntly.

 

[catomatic]

I envision him trying to convince them that they're really not hungry, they don't need the food and they'd benefit from letting him take it off their hands for these single-serve condiments laying around his dish, ala the infamous Omar conversations.

Yes. This metaphor could be extended—clumsily and with much delight—for days.    

 

[FredCDobbs]

You know who's REALLY interested in Giancarlo Stanton?  The Marlins!  I'd say they almost HAVE to pay him, given the hideous rep they have in Miami after the great stadium rip-off.  Just give him the Trout deal + $1, stop the fans from hating your guts, and watch the revenue-sharing, national TV, and increased attendance (No place to go but up!) money roll in.  Given the rest of the payroll they can easily afford him.  Easy call, really.

 

[genivive]

Ben made the best deal he could, but I can't do cartwheels over this trip back to the future. Trading a top pitcher for a putative bopper is a formula repeatedly tried and found lacking by the Red Sox since Fenway was built.
 
Lester for the new Rob Deer is indeed meh. Hopefully Cespedes is the exception and puts up a 2015 akin to Esasky's one year in Boston.

The Red Sox traded 2 MONTHS of Lester

 

[Puffy]

Ben made the best deal he could, but I can't do cartwheels over this trip back to the future. Trading a top pitcher for a putative bopper is a formula repeatedly tried and found lacking by the Red Sox since Fenway was built.
 
Lester for the new Rob Deer is indeed meh. Hopefully Cespedes is the exception and puts up a 2015 akin to Esasky's one year in Boston.

 
I guess it replaces the 2-man LF Gomes/Nava platoon (2.9 WAR in 2013) with a 1-year bridge to 2016 at 2.5 - 3.0 WAR, with some upside potential in Fenway.

 

[BornToRun]

Is an elite arm really wasted in Fenway's LF? There is less ground to cover (meaning range is wasted) and the throws are certainly shorter. However, we have all seen wallballs turned into singles or outs frequently. Does the frequency of that opportunity equate to the decreased need to make long throws to the plate?

Not only that but I can't see too many runners on 3rd taking a chance on that arm with less than 2 down on a fly to left.

 

[AlNipper49]

 

[OnWisc]

A ton of people have now made this suggestion that Cespedes could be flipped as part of a package for Stanton.  Can someone please explain to me why super-cheap Miami would want to this offseason or next deadline take back a guy making 10.5 million who will be a FA after 2015 and in line for a 6-year/120M type contract?  Total shot in the dark on the estimate, but it just makes no sense.  They would much rather get prospects or guys under control for a lot longer than 1 year if they do trade Stanton, who is under control until 2017.

Sox would probably extend Cespedes and then pick up some of that salary as part of the deal for Stanton. Would be a big cash outlay considering the size of the Stanton extension, but could make the argument that it would be defrayed by the savings on the prospects they didn't have to include in the deal (due to Cespedes) becoming cost controlled guys on the active roster.

Don't really think this is step 1 in a Stanton process however.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

 
The wall takes care of keeping wall balls to singles unless they are towering shots or placed in LF-CF then even Cespedes' arm won't be a factor.

 
Are you serious? You haven't noticed how many close plays there are at second base on Wall balls in a given season? And how much difference a LF who plays the caroms well and has a quick release and an accurate arm can make on those plays?

 

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

I like your glass-half-full approach, because I see:
 
1. Due for regression
2. DL/Adjusting to league
3. Likely to improve, but not to previous levels
4. Stet
5. Stet
6. Low OBP
7. Wishful thinking
8. Nowhere to go but up
9. No complaints
10. Expectations so low, I'd settle for a .680 OPS
 
Other than modest hope for Pedroia and Bogaerts, I can't get excited for 2015 based on the lineup you posted.

The worst case scenario won't happen every year. Pedey, X, the entire OF, 3B, and C should all see at the very least slight offensive improvement.

 

[Toe Nash]

 
Are you serious? You haven't noticed how many close plays there are at second base on Wall balls in a given season? And how much difference a LF who plays the caroms well and has a quick release and an accurate arm can make on those plays?

Do we know he plays the caroms well?

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

Nava would now seem to be the odd man out. Does Ben now trade him to a contender looking for a fourth outfielder who can handle righties? 
 
But maybe they don't trust Vic to stay healthy, which I wouldn't blame them for.

 

[ivanvamp]

I'm sorta of not feeling the trade but I like what yecul has been proposing. If Lester does return in the offseason, I can view this trade in a far more positive light but until then... meh.

If Lester comes back then this trade is a bona fide no brainer incredible deal. That's a huge if, of course.

 

[tims4wins]

 
Are you serious? You haven't noticed how many close plays there are at second base on Wall balls in a given season? And how much difference a LF who plays the caroms well and has a quick release and an accurate arm can make on those plays?

 
Seriously, Manny had like a dozen assists one year. Manny!

 

[AlNipper49]

With the tremendous talent in the upper minors (albeit a little thin in the outfield) this makes a lot of sense in that it gives the team a consistent makeup.  The alternate would basically be a bunch of rookie types and Pedroia/Ortiz/Vic.
 
I like, it's thinking outside of the box a little bit.
 
Also good on Oakland for doing what they can do to deliver a winning team.  This took balls from their end as well.

 

[catomatic]

Sox would probably extend Cespedes and then pick up some of that salary as part of the deal for Stanton. Would be a big cash outlay considering the size of the Stanton extension, but could make the argument that it would be defrayed by the savings on the prospects they didn't have to include in the deal (due to Cespedes) becoming cost controlled guys on the active roster.

Don't really think this is step 1 in a Stanton process however.

It could very conceivably be the epilogue to the Stanton process—they sounded Miami out thoroughly on his availability and are now convinced they will never get the crack at him they wanted. So here's Stanton-Lite.

 

[rembrat]

 
Are you serious? You haven't noticed how many close plays there are at second base on Wall balls in a given season? And how much difference a LF who plays the caroms well and has a quick release and an accurate arm can make on those plays?

 
Well, does Cespdes play caroms well or does he have a power arm that can make up for his fielding gaffes? That remains to be seen. And we should stop projecting 40HRs because he will absolutely be pitched to differently once he gets to Fenway.

 

[P'tucket rhymes with...]

 
The wall takes care of keeping wall balls to singles unless they are towering shots or placed in LF-CF then even Cespedes' arm won't be a factor. 
 
I'm sorta of not feeling the trade but I like what yecul has been proposing. If Lester does return in the offseason, I can view this trade in a far more positive light but until then... meh.

Of course, you're the only one around here referring to it as the Gomes trade.

 

[Paul M]

Falls short of the "king's ransom" that was bandied about of late. I think they needed a RH OF with power and Cespedes was probably the best one, and I think Oakland can distort a guy's offense though I realize Cespedes' issues are discipline and not exactly the park. But, hitting in the middle of the line-up and with some guys on base, I could see 25-30 HRs. And maybe he can be closer to his first season which makes this actually pretty strong.
 
I guess they have 2015 to evaluate him in full and see if he's worth the new deal. Too bad he can't play RF but he's not fast enough, imo.
 
Oakland-Dodgers World Series will be a lot of fun.

 

[rembrat]

Of course, you're the only one around here referring to it as the Gomes trade.

 
Find me the post where I did this. I'll wait but if this is a joke post then cool.

 

[shepard50]

 
Seriously, Manny had like a dozen assists one year. Manny!

 
In fact, held the majors one year in outfield assists. And the monster led the league in outfielder assists that same year.

 

[Super Nomario]

I lived in the Bay Area for a couple years and Cespedes is one of my favorite players to watch. Is he going to swing at a curveball in the dirt and miss by 2 feet, or crank a 450-foot home run? The famous throw from earlier this year is a classic Cespedes play - a comically bad error followed by a brilliant throw.
 
Everyone's seen this, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeTeDni6CrE
 
I wish they didn't have to trade Lester but I like the return, for aesthetic reasons at least.

 

[Tim Salmon]

The Red Sox traded 2 MONTHS of Lester

 
Right, but it's: (a) two months of Lester, in what was widely (and perhaps incorrectly) portrayed as a massive seller's market, for a team that is looking for the ultimate prize in 2014; for (b) one year of Cespedes - a low-OBP, high-power guy with a cannon arm - who could be flashing his stuff for a team vying for fourth place in the division.  If I hadn't read for two days that between six and eight teams were in on the talks, I could have tempered expectations when, instead of taking talks down to the wire and pulling a top prospect or two, the Red Sox swapped a two-month rental for a one-year rental.
 
Obviously, the Red Sox will make other moves between now and then, but it's easy to be disappointed without the benefit of seeing all the pieces on the chessboard.

 

[P'tucket rhymes with...]

 
Find me the post where I did this. I'll wait but if this is a joke post then cool.

Eees joke.

 

[SLC Sox]

 
When has this FO *not* been in go-for-it-mode?
 
There are no guarantees, no mater what "mode" there is.  Sometimes it works, sometime it doesn't and you make moves.  Not to pick on this post, but "going for it" is not part of some zero-sum game.

 
Sure, but you don't think they make different decisions based on how close they think they are to being actual contenders?  If they look at next year and see too many young players and not enough elite talent maybe they trade Lester for top prospects (if such a trade were offered).  But if they look at next year and see the right blend of youth and experience and think they are contenders, then they go with the established guy in the trade.  I'm guessing, of course, but I think trading for Cespedes is evidence that they will be buyers over the winter.