There have been some opinions, + and -, about Sandoval. Can you add some words to your conclusion?TomRicardo said:Please no Sandoval.
That is just a disaster waiting to happen at third.
If Sandoval were to be injured he'd have unlimited potential off the field as the spokesperson for "Giant Glass."TomRicardo said:Please no Sandoval.
That is just a disaster waiting to happen at third.
MakMan44 said:Isn't Hanley's injury history worse than Pablo's though?
And maybe a mod could split out the Panda talk?
He looks like he's at 285 nowTomRicardo said:
I would rather Hanley than handing Sandoval a contract and seeing him get to 285 again.
Fair point.TomRicardo said:
I would rather Hanley than handing Sandoval a contract and seeing him get to 285 again.
It all depends where he is in his weight cycle. Lately, he's crept back toward the heavier end. He's listed at 245 by both ESPN and BREF. He's rumored to have played at 280, although, who knows, has anybody gotten him on a scale and made it public when he's been that high? Over his career, April through September/October, just from watching him throughout the season, he's probably averaged somewhere in the middle, say 260. That is too heavy for a guy 5'11" (generous) and he's not an excellent defender unless he's at the lower end. You just cannot trust this guy to keep the lard off. He also goes through some pretty bad spells at the plate, .176/.265/.308 for all of April this year. And, he's having pretty close to as bad a September.ehaz said:Personally I'd love Panda here, despite his fat ass he's an excellent defender - unlike other players with weight problems he's pretty agile over there.
On the other hand, Headley seems like the type of signing this FO would make. He's 4th in the MLB in line drive % despite his fairly crappy line this year. His approach has always been pretty good as well.
Isn't this a choice between Hanley on a multi-year deal or Panda on possibly a one- or two-year deal? The latter is a declining 2-win player with a weight problem (and at age 28 some significant bounce-back potential) -- meaning teams can and should shy away from him, but a make-good one-year deal would be a way to right his ship (or not). If the Sox can do a single year for Sandoval, I bet they'd jump at that.TomRicardo said:
I would rather Hanley than handing Sandoval a contract and seeing him get to 285 again.
chrisfont9 said:Isn't this a choice between Hanley on a multi-year deal or Panda on possibly a one- or two-year deal? The latter is a declining 2-win player with a weight problem (and at age 28 some significant bounce-back potential) -- meaning teams can and should shy away from him, but a make-good one-year deal would be a way to right his ship (or not). If the Sox can do a single year for Sandoval, I bet they'd jump at that.
chrisfont9 said:Isn't this a choice between Hanley on a multi-year deal or Panda on possibly a one- or two-year deal? The latter is a declining 2-win player with a weight problem (and at age 28 some significant bounce-back potential) -- meaning teams can and should shy away from him, but a make-good one-year deal would be a way to right his ship (or not). If the Sox can do a single year for Sandoval, I bet they'd jump at that.
chrisfont9 said:Isn't this a choice between Hanley on a multi-year deal or Panda on possibly a one- or two-year deal? The latter is a declining 2-win player with a weight problem (and at age 28 some significant bounce-back potential) -- meaning teams can and should shy away from him, but a make-good one-year deal would be a way to right his ship (or not). If the Sox can do a single year for Sandoval, I bet they'd jump at that.
Sandoval has the 11th highest WAR for 3b this year. He plays in one of the biggest pitcher's parks in baseball with an incredibly deep RF. There's no way this guy signs a 1-year deal. His line vs. Rs this year: .314 / .362 / .461. Panda is fun to watch and a good baseball player, he's not John Belushi out there.chrisfont9 said:Isn't this a choice between Hanley on a multi-year deal or Panda on possibly a one- or two-year deal? The latter is a declining 2-win player with a weight problem (and at age 28 some significant bounce-back potential) -- meaning teams can and should shy away from him, but a make-good one-year deal would be a way to right his ship (or not). If the Sox can do a single year for Sandoval, I bet they'd jump at that.
You've got an extra GL in there.HomeRunBaker said:If Sandoval were to be injured he'd have unlimited potential off the field as the spokesperson for "Giant Glass."
chrisfont9 said:Isn't this a choice between Hanley on a multi-year deal or Panda on possibly a one- or two-year deal? The latter is a declining 2-win player with a weight problem (and at age 28 some significant bounce-back potential) -- meaning teams can and should shy away from him, but a make-good one-year deal would be a way to right his ship (or not). If the Sox can do a single year for Sandoval, I bet they'd jump at that.
He does, and last night at that weight he made a pretty rangy play at third. Obviously anecdotal, but while watching I was pretty surprised. This isn't an argument for or against, but he looked pretty agile for a fat guy.Dahabenzapple2 said:He looks like he's at 285 now
ScubaSteveAvery said:Sandoval's main advantages are athleticism and hand-eye coordination. Both allow him to excel on defense despite his weight, and post really high contact % numbers. In some ways, he's like Pedroia without the plate discipline. Sandoval isn't afraid to use the opposite field when batting left-handed, which could be a bonus given the LF wall. But just like Pedroia I have some concerns. The first is that once he loses that hand-eye coordination, he probably turns into a really bad hitter because he hasn't learned to have good plate discipline. His plate coverage is awesome, but if he can longer connect when he swings outside the zone (43.9 career O-swing!!) the he's going to strike out like WMB. I've already a little concerned that this is happening to Pedroia. He had LASIK in the 2011 off-season so maybe this concern is overblown, but players that rely on truly gifted hand-eye coordination run the risk of washing out once that goes away.
Second, the weight may erode his athleticism as he ages. Unlike Pedroia who is in good shape, this (hopefully) won't be an issue. But if Sandoval struggles defensively because his body starts to break down then that is an issue. I will say that so far, his injury history is mainly for hamate bone injuries so his weight hasn't caused much of an issue so far. But these are two unknowns that heighten the risk of a long-term contract for me.
ScubaSteveAvery said:Sandoval's main advantages are athleticism and hand-eye coordination. Both allow him to excel on defense despite his weight, and post really high contact % numbers. In some ways, he's like Pedroia without the plate discipline. Sandoval isn't afraid to use the opposite field when batting left-handed, which could be a bonus given the LF wall. But just like Pedroia I have some concerns. The first is that once he loses that hand-eye coordination, he probably turns into a really bad hitter because he hasn't learned to have good plate discipline. His plate coverage is awesome, but if he can longer connect when he swings outside the zone (43.9 career O-swing!!) the he's going to strike out like WMB. I've already a little concerned that this is happening to Pedroia. He had LASIK in the 2011 off-season so maybe this concern is overblown, but players that rely on truly gifted hand-eye coordination run the risk of washing out once that goes away.
Second, the weight may erode his athleticism as he ages. Unlike Pedroia who is in good shape, this (hopefully) won't be an issue. But if Sandoval struggles defensively because his body starts to break down then that is an issue. I will say that so far, his injury history is mainly for hamate bone injuries so his weight hasn't caused much of an issue so far. But these are two unknowns that heighten the risk of a long-term contract for me.
Well - which do you prefer - a guy who can actually hit (regardless of how he manages to get those hits ) vs. a guy who can't hit ?I am assuming you are missing the "no" in front of "longer connect..." and I think this is the major concern I have, fat jokes aside. It is also why I would predict a hand-wringing thread the likes of which this board hasn't seen since we had Carl Crawford to kick around. Simply put, Sandoval swings at a lot of pitches, be out of the zone or in it (57.2% per fangraphs). Contrast that with Headley who has an career O-swing of 26.8% and swings at a mere 44.2% of the pitches he sees.
Boston fans haven't really had a FA like Sandoval before - at least the aforementioned Crawford swung at strikes. A typical Panda AB sees him swing at balls, strikes and even perceived slights. As SSA points out, once he loses his hand-eye and his athleticism you are left with a fat guy with zero plate discipline. He may not see those skills erode over the next three years. However this is a guy who is heading into his first real payday and can't keep in shape. What do you think he will do when he is all nice and settled with a brand new multi-million dollar contract?
DennyDoyle'sBoil said:Someone needs to explain to me why Panda is attractive if Headley isn't. Coming off his big year, Headley is supposedly slumping, but he's a 4.0 fWAR player and was a 3.6 fWAR player last year during his supposedly terrible year. Unlike Sandoval, we now have at least a little evidence that Headley can transition to the AL -- 207 PAs in New York and he's around his career average.
Away from Petco, he's hitting .285/.359/.440. Sandoval, rather bizarrely hits better in San Francisco than anywhere else. Both are switch hitters, and Headley has much flatter platoon splits.
Sandoval is a better hitter, for sure, and the fact that Headley took a dip under .700 OPS this year before being traded is worrying, but there are a few yellow flags with Sandoval too. Plus, Headley always guy brings his glove. He's had 184 chances since moving to the Yankees (138 at 3B and 46 at 1B) with only 2 errors.
So, a guy with a 7+ win year on his resume in the not too distant future, who seems to be able to put up 3.5 to 4 wins fairly comfortably even when he's perceived as slumping, who has found success in the league and division, and we're gaga over Panda? Just don't get it. If the team is going to be looking at paying an FA eight figures a year to play 3B, I'm not sure why it would do anything other but go with the straightforward choice.
Edit: Whoops. This belongs in the future at 3d thread, not the Panda thread. Sorry, I got them confused.
Won't Arod's impending return at least give the MFY pause?I'm just assuming that Headley re-ups with the Yankees. He's played about as good as they could have hoped for since acquiring him and thus I don't see why they would let him go.
jscola85 said:
I'm just assuming that Headley re-ups with the Yankees. He's played about as good as they could have hoped for since acquiring him and thus I don't see why they would let him go.
ScubaSteveAvery said:Sandoval's main advantages are athleticism and hand-eye coordination. Both allow him to excel on defense despite his weight, and post really high contact % numbers. In some ways, he's like Pedroia without the plate discipline. Sandoval isn't afraid to use the opposite field when batting left-handed, which could be a bonus given the LF wall. But I have some concerns with degradation of his skills over time. The first is that once he loses that hand-eye coordination, he is going to turn into a really bad hitter because he hasn't learned to have good plate discipline. His plate coverage is awesome, but if he can no longer connect when he swings outside the zone (43.9 career O-swing!!) the he's going to strike out like WMB (I'm already a little concerned that this is happening to Pedroia). Sandoval had LASIK in the 2011 off-season so maybe this concern is overblown, but players that rely on truly gifted hand-eye coordination run the risk of washing out once that goes away.
Second, the weight may erode his athleticism as he ages. This hopefully won't be an issue with Pedroia since Pedroia stays in great shape. But if Sandoval struggles defensively because his body starts to break down because of the fat then that is an issue on a long-term contract. This basically happened with CC Sabathia (knee issues) and its a legitimate concern for a guy who is pushing 285. I will say that so far, Sandoval's injury history is mainly for hamate bone injuries, so his weight hasn't caused much of an issue so far. However, even the weight issue can theoretically impact his hand-eye coordination due to injuries and aging. These two unknowns heighten the risk of a long term contact for Sandoval and should be taken into consideration when discussing the potential acquisition.
Edit: added "no" in front of "longer connect..."
This post is a grammatical mess, I tried to clean it up some.
DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
I assume you're expecting A-Rod to move to short? I guess that's possible, but wonder if he can really still play the position. Everything I've seen suggests that they are going to try to replace Jeter with a short stop, not move A-Rod.