Only God Can Judge Judge

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Is there an athlete today who isn’t one wrong step from injury?
We just went over this in the main thread but there's definitely players that do end up injuring themselves more than others. Earlier season injuries tend to continue to creep up in other ways- it's more related to pitching... but a hip injury, leg and knee injuries, especially for position players CAN continue to plague them. I also don't think it's that crazy to suggest that big dudes like Judge likely would re-injure themselves at positions that require a lot of going from a stand-still to a full sprint less than a guy built like Mookie Betts.
 

Murderer's Crow

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We just went over this in the main thread but there's definitely players that do end up injuring themselves more than others. Earlier season injuries tend to continue to creep up in other ways- it's more related to pitching... but a hip injury, leg and knee injuries, especially for position players CAN continue to plague them. I also don't think it's that crazy to suggest that big dudes like Judge likely would re-injure themselves at positions that require a lot of going from a stand-still to a full sprint less than a guy built like Mookie Betts.
If I look around the league and , I have a hard time seeing a pattern attributed to who gets hurt and how often. If there was one, those players would hardly get signed. Judge hasn't really had any serious injuries and the real injury prone big guy you're looking for is Stanton. That dude has such an insanely violent swing that he can't stay on the field for more than 3 weeks anymore.
 

terrynever

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We just went over this in the main thread but there's definitely players that do end up injuring themselves more than others. Earlier season injuries tend to continue to creep up in other ways- it's more related to pitching... but a hip injury, leg and knee injuries, especially for position players CAN continue to plague them. I also don't think it's that crazy to suggest that big dudes like Judge likely would re-injure themselves at positions that require a lot of going from a stand-still to a full sprint less than a guy built like Mookie Betts.
I agree with you on big athletes being brittle. Someone should tell Cashman.

Your Judge being gimpy suggestion gives me an opening to mention that Mickey Mantle averaged 145 games per 154-game season through his age 29 campaign (if you don’t count 1951, rookie year, when he got shipped to the minors for six weeks.) And they said he was injury prone! Mike Trout is injury prone.
 

VORP Speed

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I agree with you on big athletes being brittle. Someone should tell Cashman.

Your Judge being gimpy suggestion gives me an opening to mention that Mickey Mantle averaged 145 games per 154-game season through his age 29 campaign (if you don’t count 1951, rookie year, when he got shipped to the minors for six weeks.) And they said he was injury prone! Mike Trout is injury prone.
Drainage pipe-prone. Kinda crazy that he may have played almost his entire career with a torn ACL.
 

terrynever

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Drainage pipe-prone. Kinda crazy that he may have played almost his entire career with a torn ACL.
Mick could play well while in pain. In those days, you played through many injuries.

Judge tries to play through pain. Stanton heads to Tampa when he’s hurt.

That is an incredible story about Mick’s undiagnosed ACL. Team doctors were in cahoots with management for a long time. Maybe still.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I agree with you on big athletes being brittle. Someone should tell Cashman.

Your Judge being gimpy suggestion gives me an opening to mention that Mickey Mantle averaged 145 games per 154-game season through his age 29 campaign (if you don’t count 1951, rookie year, when he got shipped to the minors for six weeks.) And they said he was injury prone! Mike Trout is injury prone.
I’m pretty sure Cashman knew there was an elevated injury risk with Judge but figured he’s likely to DH and/or play 1B at some point to reduce injury risk. Resigning Judge wasn’t the same as any old FA either. The guy was the best player out there and the not just the face of the MFY’s but of MLB recently along with Trout and Ohtani.
Im not claiming to be smarter than Cashman or any other GM.
If you read what I’ve said…. It’s pretty clear that I just said he’s a higher injury risk and likely will continue to be going forward. And more so than smaller athletes. It’s not like I think Im blowing anyone’s F’in minds here but apparently maybe I am?!?!
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Any thoughts on Judge peeking into his own dugout immediately before 5 straight pitches, only to jack one for a homerun? His excuse made absolutely no sense.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Just watched the Jomboy clip. Wouldn't the visitors dugout be behind him?
The visitors’ dugout in Toronto is on the first base side of the field.

I’m not really sure what rule he/they are purported to have broken here, though. Even if they were relaying pitch calls to him, so what? You’d have to establish the means by which they obtained the calls were prohibited.
 

jon abbey

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I honestly can't believe I even have to explain this but there are so many reasons that this is as stupid a 'controversy' as I've ever seen.

1) You can't steal signs illegally anymore, it's fucking Pitchcom. If the catcher or first baseman or whatever are moving early, that's on them (I don't think this really happened).

2) The terrible reliever threw five sliders in a row, the one Judge homered on was dead center of the zone. It was as bad a pitch as you will ever see.

3) Boone got tossed a pitch or two earlier after a horrendous strike call, nowhere near the zone.

4) Judge was named captain this past winter, and since then, he has really taken the job seriously. His story that guys were still yelling at the ump in the middle of his AB and he wanted to see who so he could yell at them later makes complete sense to me, especially since he was asked right after the game.

5) If NY was cheating somehow (in an away game, mind you), why was it only in an AB in a 6-0 game against a scrub reliever? Why was it just Judge, no one else, no other ABs, none of Judge's earlier ABs?

I'm sure there's more but that is enough, damn.
 

jon abbey

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Just watched the Jomboy clip. Wouldn't the visitors dugout be behind him?
By 'the Jomboy clip', do you just mean the Toronto broadcast clip that he posted? Did Jomboy do one of his clips about this yet? I don't see it on his Twitter feed.
 

jon abbey

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Judge's full explanation, for the record, from The Athletic article:

========================================

When Judge was first asked about what he might have been looking at, he seemed to not know what the reporter was talking about.

“For when?” Judge said.

After the slugger was asked again, he laughed a little to himself. He said that his Yankees teammates were still yelling at plate umpire Clint Vondrak, who had ejected manager Aaron Boone during Judge’s at-bat. Judge said he simply wanted them to shut up so that could hit in peace, and that he was looking at the dugout to see which mouths were still running.

“It was kind of a lot of chirping from our dugout,” he said, according to a clip posted to Twitter by the YES Network, “which I really didn’t like in a situation where it’s a 6-nothing game and I know Boonie got tossed. I was trying to save Boonie by calling a timeout, like, ‘Hey, hold up here. Let me work here.’ I was kind of trying to see who was chirping in the dugout. It’s 6-nothing. Boonie got tossed, let’s go to work now.”
 

Ed Hillel

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His reason, not excuse, made complete sense.
Nah, he’s lying about that part. You don’t glance at the dugout to see whose yelling every pitch only after the catcher has set up. He didn’t look in or say anything at all between pitches. I think what Olney and a few others have is the most likely: The Yankees had some tell on Jackson tipping pitches, and they were signaling. If there’s no technology, it’s not cheating, though it might earn you a fastball under the chin.
 

Murderer's Crow

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That is ridiculous. If you watch that full inning and pay attention to who Judge is as a player, and really listen to his response I think you'd feel differently. His reason was exactly on point and he even went as far as to throw his manager under the bus a bit by saying Boone should have "let him work" too.

A week ago this thread was about how Judge is injury prone and not going to age well. Now it's about him "cheating" or "stealing signs legally"....can we do a little better?
 

jon abbey

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Nah, he’s lying about that part. You don’t glance at the dugout to see whose yelling every pitch only after the catcher has set up. He didn’t look in or say anything at all between pitches. I think what Olney and a few others have is the most likely: The Yankees had some tell on Jackson tipping pitches, and they were signaling. If there’s no technology, it’s not cheating, though it might earn you a fastball under the chin.
Absolutely ridiculous, with all due respect.
 

jon abbey

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Also I hope I have enough of a track record here for people to know that I am not reflexively defensive about Judge or any other players or teams I root for, but this whole thing just makes no sense. I fully get why the Toronto announcers questioned it live, but after Judge's explanation, it's really a non-topic IMO.
 

Marciano490

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It’d be pretty odd if the gigantic man coming off a historic offensive season decided to obviously cheat in front of hundreds of thousands of viewers in a meaningless May 6-0 game against a scrub reliever.
 

jtn46

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I buy the excuse, because yeah, it's pitchcom. I'd need to see if other Yankees were doing it to be suspicious that I guess the Yankees were hearing the Jays pitchcom somehow.
 

Ed Hillel

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Absolutely ridiculous, with all due respect.
You actually believe he was glancing over to ID which of his teammates were complaining to the ump, but only after the catcher set up every pitch? No glances or look over during any other time of the AB? All due respect, I would say most non-Yankees fans don't buy that.

But just for that one AB in a 6-0 game, not before or after? Come on.
How many ABs was he facing Jackson? I agree with the belief I've seen a number of othrs suggest, which is that Jackson was tipping pitches and Yankees were relaying signals. Which, btw, isn't illegal. So I don't know why people are so defensive about it.
 

jon abbey

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Also I think the part that non-Yankee fans are missing a bit in this situation is that I really can't emphasize enough how hands on Judge has tried to be as captain, I've literally never seen anything like it in MLB. I can't point to specific examples but since the start of spring training, it's been quite clear that he considers himself almost a part of management now in addition to a player, and he does everything he can in that role.

Maybe I notice it more than others because 1) Judge is my favorite player (maybe ever) and 2) I was co-captain of my NCAA title fencing team in college junior and senior seasons, and I did something similar, to the point where the coach of the #2 team in the country (Penn State) told me and my coach after we beat them that I was the team MVP, even though I had just lost 2 of 3 and there were a lot of better fencers than me on the team.
 

jon abbey

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You actually believe he was glancing over to ID which of his teammates were complaining to the ump, but only after the catcher set up every pitch? No glances or look over during any other time of the AB? All due respect, I would say most non-Yankees fans don't buy that.
I still have only seen him do it once on replay, that's why I asked if there was an actual Jomboy recap of the situation.

But yeah, absolutely. The dude is trying to hit and his idiot teammates won't stop yelling at the ump. You're acting like it was a well-thought out plan by him when I think it was just a gut reaction. Last year, he probably would have stepped out in that situation, but you can't do that this year.
 

Ed Hillel

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I still have only seen him do it once on replay, that's why I asked if there was an actual Jomboy recap of the situation.

But yeah, absolutely. The dude is trying to hit and his idiot teammates won't stop yelling at the ump. You're acting like it was a well-thought out plan by him when I think it was just a gut reaction. Last year, he probably would have stepped out in that situation, but you can't do that this year.
I don't think it's some massive cheating scheme, I just think the guy was tipping pitches and they were signaling each other. The solution is for Jackson to stop tipping his pitches.
 

jon abbey

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How many ABs was he facing Jackson? I agree with the belief I've seen a number of othrs suggest, which is that Jackson was tipping pitches and Yankees were relaying signals. Which, btw, isn't illegal. So I don't know why people are so defensive about it.
Jackson faced four batters, two before Judge and one after, why was Judge the only one of the four doing this then?
 

jon abbey

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The tipping pitches thing is hilarious, Jackson threw six pitches to Judge, all of them were sliders between 83-85 MPH. Gee, I wonder what pitch will be next?
 

Yaz4Ever

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I honestly can't believe I even have to explain this but there are so many reasons that this is as stupid a 'controversy' as I've ever seen.

1) You can't steal signs illegally anymore, it's fucking Pitchcom. If the catcher or first baseman or whatever are moving early, that's on them (I don't think this really happened).

2) The terrible reliever threw five sliders in a row, the one Judge homered on was dead center of the zone. It was as bad a pitch as you will ever see.

3) Boone got tossed a pitch or two earlier after a horrendous strike call, nowhere near the zone.

4) Judge was named captain this past winter, and since then, he has really taken the job seriously. His story that guys were still yelling at the ump in the middle of his AB and he wanted to see who so he could yell at them later makes complete sense to me, especially since he was asked right after the game.

5) If NY was cheating somehow (in an away game, mind you), why was it only in an AB in a 6-0 game against a scrub reliever? Why was it just Judge, no one else, no other ABs, none of Judge's earlier ABs?

I'm sure there's more but that is enough, damn.
I really don’t want to think he was cheating. I’m not sure I guy his “I wanted to know who was chirping” thing, but I’d give him the benefit of the doubt. The pitch he hit for a home run would’ve been in orbit whether he knew what was coming or not.

Also I hope I have enough of a track record here for people to know that I am not reflexively defensive about Judge or any other players or teams I root for, but this whole thing just makes no sense. I fully get why the Toronto announcers questioned it live, but after Judge's explanation, it's really a non-topic IMO.
I don’t think anyone thinks you’re being a homer here.
 

Ed Hillel

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The Blue Jays announcers saw him looking into the dugout BEFORE Boone was ejected…”three pitches ago,” which was the first or second pitch of the AB, depending if they were counting that 1-2 pitch. Boone was ejected the third pitch of the AB:
View: https://twitter.com/jomboymedia/status/1658286104062095360?s=46&t=11SXTvIYT-tl8b6e7iEUVQ

Edit - I guess he’s saying he was trying to save Boone and tried to call timeout. Did he actually try to call timeout at any point? I didn’t see it, but maybe he did. I’m assuming they were having ump issues all game if Boone chose to get ejected in that situation.
 
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jon abbey

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Yeah, the dugout seemed to be chirping the whole inning, managers don’t get thrown out after one bad call, it’s always a cumulative thing.
 

EvilEmpire

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Edit: ^ what abbey said.

Because dissatisfaction with the ump was building all game and players were chirping about it. And of course it was going on before Boone was ejected. Boone didn't just decide out of nowhere to confront the ump. Stuff happened leading up that.
 

Ed Hillel

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Again, the strangest part to me is just the timing of the glances. He’s really only looking after the catcher sets up, and it doesn’t make sense they’d only be chirping at those points in the AB. The most logical time to look over at the dugout or to say something would be right after the pitches.

Either way, it’s not much of anything.
 

jon abbey

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Again, the strangest part to me is just the timing of the glances. He’s really only looking after the catcher sets up, and it doesn’t make sense they’d only be chirping at those points in the AB. The most logical time to look over at the dugout or to say something would be right after the pitches.
I don't think he was going to yell at them from the field, that's not his style.
 

Zedia

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Did my brilliant Simpsons' "shifty-eyed dog" gif get deleted? Man, someone is sensitive.

That 100% is not the look of somebody doing something not nefarious.
 

Marciano490

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These are split second glances right before a pitch, no? Maybe Judge has insane vision and reflexes (well, obviously), but wouldn’t any sign stealing that could be pick up that quickly also have to be so obvious and blatant it’d be sniffed out by the Jays? The announcers kept talking about it - they didn’t have a camera on the Yankees dugout?
 

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I don’t know if he was glancing to see which teammates were chirping so he could scold them later. I don’t know if he was looking to his teammates for a clue as to where the catcher was setting up.

I do know this should be a non-story rather than a headline on ESPN.com this morning.
 

jon abbey

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At least this all makes a mid-May series more fun going forward, tonight should be interesting.