Ongoing COVID-19 Impact

johnmd20

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Pro sports leagues, and many other industries, can and do regulate the public speech of their employees all the time. The "free" part means that if one doesn't like those regulations, one is free to find another line of work. And @johnmd20 is spot on the money. There is a simple, safe, highly effective way to end this pandemic. It is exhausting to read about and listen to half-wits like Cole Beasley manufacture bullshit reasons not to play their part, do the responsible thing, and get vaccinated.
The solution is right here! America is SO lucky to have the option to actually vaccinate everyone. Many countries do not have this option.

But Cole listens to Mikey on Facebook. He's done his "research" because Mikey's got some good ideas.
 

cornwalls@6

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Apr 23, 2010
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The solution is right here! America is SO lucky to have the option to actually vaccinate everyone. Many countries do not have this option.

But Cole listens to Mikey on Facebook. He's done his "research" because Mikey's got some good ideas.
It really is the epitome of Curt Schilling syndrome: dumb guys, who think they're smart, and have a following of other dumb guys, who also think they're smart.
 

RetractableRoof

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What if Cole Beasley has already had covid-19 and by advice of his Dr isn't getting vaccinated? Does he have a right to decline then, or are all of you that are demonizing him don't care in that hypothetical? Because according to one of the top world specialists in vaccine safety (a pro-vaccine advocate) anyone who has natural immunity (due to having already had covid-19) does not need to be vaccinated - they are already part of the 'herd immunity effort'. Just curious.
 

GeorgeCostanza

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What if Cole Beasley has already had covid-19 and by advice of his Dr isn't getting vaccinated? Does he have a right to decline then, or are all of you that are demonizing him don't care in that hypothetical? Because according to one of the top world specialists in vaccine safety (a pro-vaccine advocate) anyone who has natural immunity (due to having already had covid-19) does not need to be vaccinated - they are already part of the 'herd immunity effort'. Just curious.
He should find a new doctor.
 

cornwalls@6

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What if Cole Beasley has already had covid-19 and by advice of his Dr isn't getting vaccinated? Does he have a right to decline then, or are all of you that are demonizing him don't care in that hypothetical? Because according to one of the top world specialists in vaccine safety (a pro-vaccine advocate) anyone who has natural immunity (due to having already had covid-19) does not need to be vaccinated - they are already part of the 'herd immunity effort'. Just curious.
Nice straw man. Go back and read his tweet. He is disparaging the vaccine, and by extension, not very subtly, trying to influence other players not to get it.
 

Kliq

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It really is the epitome of Curt Schilling syndrome: dumb guys, who think they're smart, and have a following of other dumb guys, who also think they're smart.
I believe this is called "The Joe Rogan."
 

RetractableRoof

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Nice straw man. Go back and read his tweet. He is disparaging the vaccine, and by extension, not very subtly, trying to influence other players not to get it.
Fine, then player X... Question still stands. Player X who is has not making a public stance, but quietly declining the vaccine. Let's say he's your neighbor, so you know privately he's not getting it because his Dr. advised against it. He still get the pitchfork brigade?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Fine, then player X... Question still stands. Player X who is has not making a public stance, but quietly declining the vaccine. Let's say he's your neighbor, so you know privately he's not getting it because his Dr. advised against it. He still get the pitchfork brigade?
If there's a legitimate medical reason for not getting the vaccine, that's one thing. I'm sure the NFL or any other organization can work around legitimate medical reasons for why an individual can't (not won't, CAN'T) get the vaccine. That's not what Beasley is doing. Hence the "pitchfork brigade".
 

cornwalls@6

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Fine, then player X... Question still stands. Player X who is has not making a public stance, but quietly declining the vaccine. Let's say he's your neighbor, so you know privately he's not getting it because his Dr. advised against it. He still get the pitchfork brigade?
Why are you fixated on hypotheticals about outlier cases of players who might have had COVID? It is in the best interest of the league, and it is the responsible thing to do for the overwhelming majority of personnel to get vaccinated. The league and the NFLPA are correctly agreeing on a policy that strongly encourages it.
 

johnmd20

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An entire strawman army has been built in this thread. It is impressive.

But what if the guy once had whooping cough and his doctor is half Italian and because of that he likes to eat spaghetti and sometimes that makes him a little tired due to all of the gluten so he doesn't give his patients good advice and then Cole doesn't get the vaccine because of the spaghetti. WHAT ABOUT THAT?
 

RetractableRoof

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Why are you fixated on hypotheticals about outlier cases of players who might have had COVID? It is in the best interest of the league, and it is the responsible thing to do for the overwhelming majority of personnel to get vaccinated. The league and the NFLPA are correctly agreeing on a policy that strongly encourages it.
I'm not fixated, I'm trying to understand. I haven't followed Beasley so I didn't realize he was "anti-vaxx", thought he was just pissed off about the degree of the protocol differences for those who aren't on the vaccinated side of the ledger. There's a lot of vitriol against him, and when I posted about one specific line item in the covid protocol list for the players, I got lumped into the "sick of this shit" rant.

My personal interest is just that - for me it's not a hypothetical. I've had covid, and my Dr. has advised me not to get the vaccine. And I get the same vitriol directed at me - I'm trying to figure out where it is coming from. In an athletes case, they have a ton to lose in the case of an adverse reaction (maybe increasingly so because of any of the pharma garbage they are dumping into their bodies as mockingly mentioned above). Who knows what Toradol does to the body in combination with the vaccine (that certainly wasn't part of any study)? There's a whole lot of non-Dr's in the pitchfork brigade that don't know shit about the safety of the vaccine (other than the CDC/Pharma/MSM claims that they are safe). In the animal trials vaccinated animals that were exposed to covid-19 [post vaccination] died. They cancelled the animal trials prior to completion. [Anyone wanting to contradict this statement, show me proof that these vaccines went through published successful animal trials.] So anyone who is saying this thing is safe, is either profiting from it (including Pharma and the CDC) or doesn't have any real knowledge to base it on. At best, the logic is "we did this thing over there, which is mostly similar, so it SHOULD be safe as well". Like it or not, vaccinating the global population IS the field trial. So in my case, I don't need the vaccine... but I can certainly understand the stance of someone who is not comfortable with the long term safety of the vaccine. Back to Beasley's case, sure he might be putting X, Y, and Z in his body (which he is being mocked for above), but in general players know what those things are doing to their body and what risks they are taking - but they don't know what happens if the two are mixed - or even the vaccine in isolation. If he doesn't feel comfortable putting the unknown of the vaccine in his body, I'm not comfortable faulting him for that.

Finally, to the bolded... the differences in that chart for the vaccinated/non-vaccinated is not "strongly encouraging it", it's way past that - it is right up to the point of coercion if not past it. There are extenuating circumstances dealing with the totality of the league safety, but there is also the illusion of safety - after all what is the point of getting the vaccine if it doesn't make you safe from covid-19? The fact is, this vaccine is EUA and by international law must be administered with informed consent and absent mandate/force/coercion. Telling people it is safe (when that cannot be reasonably proven) would seem to muddy the "informed consent" water. The pitchfork brigade and employer policies that are seemingly punitive in nature (no actual increase in workplace safety) could be viewed as coercion. Since I'm not a lawyer my opinion there is probably not worth the time it took me to type it - but there it is.

@johnmd20 Mock all you want - the hypothetical is relevant to me, because though I'm not an athlete, it is my actual circumstance. My fault for not knowing Beasley was persona non-grata and using him for my hypothetical. You guys are busting out the condemnation, and applying it awfully broadly. You are clearly comfortable with that - but that doesn't mean that a reasonable question trying to understand how far your animus extended was out of bounds. In the end your mocking of basic attempts at discussion is an example of what is wrong in this situation. You aren't a world renowned leader in this field (are you, it is SoSH after all?), and yet you mock questions/hypotheticals that use information from such sources to frame a discussion point.

[Aside: If the pitchfork brigade wants to head in Beasley's direction because he's taken a public anti-vaxx stance, that's their right - but so is his right to advocate against it. In the end, we won't know who is right for about 7-10 years].

Personal note: My parents, my 2 oldest children, and most of my immediate/extended family is vaccinated.
 
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Dahabenzapple2

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Jun 20, 2011
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I'm not fixated, I'm trying to understand. I haven't followed Beasley so I didn't realize he was "anti-vaxx", thought he was just pissed off about the degree of the protocol differences for those who aren't on the vaccinated side of the ledger. There's a lot of vitriol against him, and when I posted about one specific line item in the covid protocol list for the players, I got lumped into the "sick of this shit" rant.

My personal interest is just that - for me it's not a hypothetical. I've had covid, and my Dr. has advised me not to get the vaccine. And I get the same vitriol directed at me - I'm trying to figure out where it is coming from. In an athletes case, they have a ton to lose in the case of an adverse reaction (maybe increasingly so because of any of the pharma garbage they are dumping into their bodies as mockingly mentioned above). Who knows what Toradol does to the body in combination with the vaccine (that certainly wasn't part of any study)? There's a whole lot of non-Dr's in the pitchfork brigade that don't know shit about the safety of the vaccine (other than the CDC/Pharma/MSM claims that they are safe). In the animal trials vaccinated animals that were exposed to covid-19 [post vaccination] died. They cancelled the animal trials prior to completion. [Anyone wanting to contradict this statement, show me proof that these vaccines went through published successful animal trials.] So anyone who is saying this thing is safe, is either profiting from it (including Pharma and the CDC) or doesn't have any real knowledge to base it on. At best, the logic is "we did this thing over there, which is mostly similar, so it SHOULD be safe as well". Like it or not, vaccinating the global population IS the field trial. So in my case, I don't need the vaccine... but I can certainly understand the stance of someone who is not comfortable with the long term safety of the vaccine. Back to Beasley's case, sure he might be putting X, Y, and Z in his body (which he is being mocked for above), but in general players know what those things are doing to their body and what risks they are taking - but they don't know what happens if the two are mixed - or even the vaccine in isolation. If he doesn't feel comfortable putting the unknown of the vaccine in his body, I'm not comfortable faulting him for that.

Finally, to the bolded... the differences in that chart for the vaccinated/non-vaccinated is not "strongly encouraging it", it's way past that - it is right up to the point of coercion if not past it. There are extenuating circumstances dealing with the totality of the league safety, but there is also the illusion of safety - after all what is the point of getting the vaccine if it doesn't make you safe from covid-19? The fact is, this vaccine is EUA and by international law must be administered with informed consent and absent mandate/force/coercion. Telling people it is safe (when that cannot be reasonably proven) would seem to muddy the "informed consent" water. The pitchfork brigade and employer policies that are seemingly punitive in nature (no actual increase in workplace safety) could be viewed as coercion. Since I'm not a lawyer my opinion there is probably not worth the time it took me to type it - but there it is.

@johnmd20 Mock all you want - the hypothetical is relevant to me, because though I'm not an athlete, it is my actual circumstance. My fault for not knowing Beasley was persona non-grata and using him for my hypothetical. You guys are busting out the condemnation, and applying it awfully broadly. You are clearly comfortable with that - but that doesn't mean that a reasonable question trying to understand how far your animus extended was out of bounds. In the end your mocking of basic attempts at discussion is an example of what is wrong in this situation. You aren't a world renowned leader in this field (are you, it is SoSH after all?), and yet you mock questions/hypotheticals that use information from such sources to frame a discussion point.

[Aside: If the pitchfork brigade wants to head in Beasley's direction because he's taken a public anti-vaxx stance, that's their right - but so is his right to advocate against it. In the end, we won't know who is right for about 7-10 years].

Personal note: My parents, my 2 oldest children, and most of my immediately/extended family is vaccinated.
The idea that we won’t know who is right for another 7-10 years is absolute bullshit. Nonsense. If that’s the case you must be very upset that your 2 oldest children put their future health in jeopardy.
 

54thMA

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He should find a new doctor.
A good friend of mine who's 56 and does not drink or smoke and works out 6 days a week got COVID back in February of this year and was in the hospital for 14 days or so and nearly died.

As a matter of fact, if his wife was not a former nurse and was able to read his oxygen level and see it was below 90 and thus rush him to the hospital, he probably would have died.

His personal doctor strongly advised him to get vaccinated, so he did.

He's slowly getting back to 100% but is still not there yet, he's really not sure if he will ever get there, which is heartbreaking truth be told.

The amount of misinformation about this virus continues to be a problem for people.
 

54thMA

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The idea that we won’t know who is right for another 7-10 years is absolute bullshit. Nonsense. If that’s the case you must be very upset that your 2 oldest children put their future health in jeopardy.
My 58 year old cousin who had bladder cancer and has a history of heart disease in his family refuses to get the vaccine, but his two daughters and his wife got it, he maintains one of the reasons he is refusing is the reports of heart issues.

So I asked him "So you allowed your two daughters to get it but you are not due to heart issues being reported; so it's ok for them but not ok for you?"

His reply "they are free to decide if they want it or not, not my call."

This from a guy who has enough ammo stockpiled to start WWIII, doesn't trust the government and said masks do nothing to prevent the spread of the virus.

I give up.
 

RIFan

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What if Cole Beasley has already had covid-19 and by advice of his Dr isn't getting vaccinated? Does he have a right to decline then, or are all of you that are demonizing him don't care in that hypothetical? Because according to one of the top world specialists in vaccine safety (a pro-vaccine advocate) anyone who has natural immunity (due to having already had covid-19) does not need to be vaccinated - they are already part of the 'herd immunity effort'. Just curious.
Is it too hard to actually reference who this top world specialist is along with their actual work? Otherwise, your statement is meaningless. I know this isn't the main board, but standards of referencing a source should still apply.

Also, my father had Covid and was quite ill. His doctor couldn't emphasize enough to get the vaccine as soon as possible after he had recovered. The full knowledge base and understanding on whether or not people who had Covid and their ability to carry and infect others is still not complete due to various variants.
 

RetractableRoof

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The idea that we won’t know who is right for another 7-10 years is absolute bullshit. Nonsense. If that’s the case you must be very upset that your 2 oldest children put their future health in jeopardy.
Really, tell me if this vaccine actually causes X long term side affect in Y% of the population, how long it will take to prove it statistically according to current scientific/medical standards?

I made no statement about my families future health being in jeopardy. I've made no anti-vaxx statement at all. So um, your post can go fuck itself (separating the post from the poster).

BTW, with the exception to covid-19 all my vaccinations are up to date :) Not an anti-vaxxer here.

Is it too hard to actually reference who this top world specialist is along with their actual work? Otherwise, your statement is meaningless. I know this isn't the main board, but standards of referencing a source should still apply.

Also, my father had Covid and was quite ill. His doctor couldn't emphasize enough to get the vaccine as soon as possible after he had recovered. The full knowledge base and understanding on whether or not people who had Covid and their ability to carry and infect others is still not complete due to various variants.
So I was trying to walk the line of context within football, and a pure V&N covid conversation. Not intentionally withholding the info.

[Edit]
Re: the bolded, The MSM and Pharma are already telling us that they are working on covid-19 vaccine boosters targeting the various variants you reference. So if the vaccine/pharma folks don't think the original covid-19 vaccine effectiveness carries over to the variants - then the natural immunity herd isn't in any better or worse position (excepting where we know the body is highly adaptable there's a chance).
[/Edit]

Martin KullDorff [CV]
Former Member of CDC COVID-19 Vaccine Safety Working Group (removed from the group for publicly advocating for NOT pausing covid-19 vaccine distribution to the elderly when some safety concerns were being raised - they didn't like that he conducted interviews in opposition to the working group). He is decidedly pro-vaccine, and has been cited in publications in his field over 25K times.

Kulldorf.jpg
 
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RetractableRoof

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A good friend of mine who's 56 and does not drink or smoke and works out 6 days a week got COVID back in February of this year and was in the hospital for 14 days or so and nearly died.

As a matter of fact, if his wife was not a former nurse and was able to read his oxygen level and see it was below 90 and thus rush him to the hospital, he probably would have died.

His personal doctor strongly advised him to get vaccinated, so he did.

He's slowly getting back to 100% but is still not there yet, he's really not sure if he will ever get there, which is heartbreaking truth be told.

The amount of misinformation about this virus continues to be a problem for people.
54, don't smoke or drink, work out as often as I can make the time (not ever enough). Some other medical history I won't discuss. Got covid, was sick for 3 days... fatigued for another 5-6 days... lost sense of taste for a couple of weeks. I take Vitamin C, Zinc, and D3 supplements (recommended by my Dr 4-5 years ago while attempting to keep my immune system strong). Given that context, perhaps my Dr. is the right choice for me. Either way, one anecdote doesn't validate nor invalidate a competent Dr. who knows ones personal medical history.

I'm glad your friend is recovering.
 

RetractableRoof

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This. You really should see another doctor.
No offense here, but his advice (with complete knowledge of my medical history) coincides with the thoughts of one of the top 5 vaccine experts (a pro-covid-19 vaccine person) in the world. With what medical basis (starting with little knowledge of my personal medical history) do you make your recommendation that I should seek a second opinion? I don't know your profession, so I'm not making any assumptions.
 

54thMA

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54, don't smoke or drink, work out as often as I can make the time (not ever enough). Some other medical history I won't discuss. Got covid, was sick for 3 days... fatigued for another 5-6 days... lost sense of taste for a couple of weeks. I take Vitamin C, Zinc, and D3 supplements (recommended by my Dr 4-5 years ago while attempting to keep my immune system strong). Given that context, perhaps my Dr. is the right choice for me. Either way, one anecdote doesn't validate nor invalidate a competent Dr. who knows ones personal medical history.

I'm glad your friend is recovering.
Do you have any lingering issues or are you feeling back to 100%?

I sincerely hope so; my friends doctor is mystified as to how he got so sick; his older brother got COVID, had no real symptoms or issues, he smokes and drinks like they are going to shoot him at dawn and is somewhat overweight.

The randomness of this virus is frightening; again, all the best.
 

RetractableRoof

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What about the other 4?
I'm betting he's actually number 1 and is being humble? (If you were being funny, I ignore the rest.)

Seriously though, this board is "science/data" all the way. I'm saying MY Dr. for MY personal medical history (and given his prior foresight in fortifying my immune system) is recommending a course of action that is consistent with one of the most knowledgeable Drs in his field (who has a CV that is 30+ pages long full of a life time study of the data) and people are saying I need a new Dr? OK, name the 4 and show me where they have specifically said ALL persons (including with natural immunity and ANY prior medical history) should be vaccinated and I'll give it some thought.
 

kenneycb

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You said he was a top 5 vaccine expert. I don’t know who the other 4 are so not sure why it’s my burden to fetch the info. Given the general consensus, I would assume they fall into the get vaxxed side. The above reads as confirmation bias where you’re looking for someone that shares the opinion of you / your doctor despite the vast majority having dissenting views. The burden quite frankly should be on you given it’s your body. Your thinking and rationale is poor. That is all.
 

RetractableRoof

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Do you have any lingering issues or are you feeling back to 100%?

I sincerely hope so; my friends doctor is mystified as to how he got so sick; his older brother got COVID, had no real symptoms or issues, he smokes and drinks like they are going to shoot him at dawn and is somewhat overweight.

The randomness of this virus is frightening; again, all the best.
Good question, the 5-6 days of fatigue was the most lingering thing for me (my SO and daughter had a 2-3 week fight, plus follow-up fatigue and loss of taste for the SO). I haven't since then tried to really ramp up my cardio, or do long runs, so I can't say conclusively that there wasn't healing that took place over a longer period of time. I'd say that my normal activities and workouts didn't/don't feel limited in a noticeable way. I'm carrying a couple of extra pounds that need more attention (don't think I'm alone there) - but that's inadequate activity, not covid.

With respect to your friend and his brother - by most logic there is no reason Jim Fixx should have died of a heart attack at 52 after a lifetime of exercise and running/cardio in particular. So who can really explain the difference in covid experience between these two brothers??? Anecdotally I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that nicotine use in the lungs might have had some affect in protecting/helping/coating the lungs from covid-19 or cytokine storm attacks. I wouldn't be able to find it and I can't say it was a conclusive paper... just something that caught my eye (and I dismissed it because I don't smoke). Strange things...

I think that is exactly where I fall on this, there is an awful lot of randomness in it, which generates an awful lot of uneasiness and frankly fear. The best I can personally do is keep my immune system strong (I've always struggled with good sleep) and be prudent, and listen to people I can trust - and I'll still likely make mistakes, right? The randomness/unknown is why I can't condemn folks that feel strongly opposed to the vaccine... it has to be their choice. I know others don't feel that way, and I'm honestly uncomfortable with that - but that conversation certainly doesn't belong in the NFL version of the covid thread.

Thank you... and it should go without saying, but all the best to you as well.
 

RetractableRoof

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You said he was a top 5 vaccine expert. I don’t know who the other 4 are so not sure why it’s my burden to fetch the info. Given the general consensus, I would assume they fall into the get vaxxed side. The above reads as confirmation bias where you’re looking for someone that shares the opinion of you / your doctor despite the vast majority having dissenting views. The burden quite frankly should be on you given it’s your body. Your thinking and rationale is poor. That is all.
lol, ok. He's one of the top 5... his thinking contradicts yours (I assume) but my rationale is poor? I'm comfortable with my choices - it's others here telling me to get a second medical opinion. It was the conversation with my Dr that made me aware of Dr. KullDorff - who I then researched. If my Dr was informing his medical practice based on his knowledge of Dr. Kuldorff does that mean he was relying on an expert in his field or is that confirmation bias as well.

Guys, I was just explaining that my hypothetical was based on my personal experience - and without knowing anything about my medical history the non-medical experts on SoSH are telling me to find a new Dr. and that one of the top vaccine experts in the world who was working with the CDC on covid vaccine safety matters is not a good source of information, but merely confirmation bias. Maybe telling me to ignore my personal Drs advice is bias on the part of others???

Let's consider this part of the conversation done - when I need advice about selecting a new Dr I'll be sure to check the NFL covid thread for recommendations.
 

dcdrew10

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I am going to put a few disclaimers out front:
  1. I am a contractor at NIH and was one at FDA during the last year (I am a web project manager, not a doctor, though I am a former public health researcher).
  2. I have previously worked on a meta-analysis of vaccine safety across a plethora of vaccines.
  3. I have family and close friends who are directly involved with the development, testing, and approval of the vaccines.
  4. My two youngest kids are part of a trial for efficacy and safety of the Pfizer vaccine for 2-11 year olds.
I am clearly in the pro-vaccine camp.

All of that being said, from a scientific standpoint it is hard to argue with the league and NFLPA's agreed upon rules. Yes, we do not know the long-term effects of the vaccine, but we do know the long and short-term effects of COVID (like death) and the immediate danger to the country as a whole is COVID. Not just the health of people, but the health of the economy and the health of our communities. Not everyone dies from COVID, but if we have to keep shutting things down for extended periods of time it will cause irreparable damage to the country.

Beasley is allowed to choose what he does and does not put into his body. It's not like they're even taking away his opportunity to play in the NFL. If he chooses not to get vaccinated he is going to be held to a more strict standard of health monitoring because he could potentially spread a deadly disease to someone else on his team.Tough shit. He's already held to a higher standard than most workplaces. He gets drug tested several times a year and the NFL definitely tells him what he can and cannot put into his body; look at the list of banned medications and dietary supplements. He's got $4.7 million reasons to not put himself before the agreed upon rules that are better for the league/country as a whole. He can bitch about freedom, but his freedom to choose whether or not to get vaccinated doesn't supersede everyone else in the organization's right to not get a deadly virus, just like my freedom to be drunk ends when I get behind the wheel of a car, because drunk drivers are a thread to the safety of everyone else on the roads. Beasley throws out a red herring like the 98% comment (which makes no sense; how does his less than 2% chance to make the NFL compare with less than 2% chance of getting COVID after being vaccinated?). He's a fucking football player, not a medical professional or biologist. He's implying like he can't play football if he doesn't get a vaccine and that implication is intentionally misleading. He can play without a vaccine, he is just subject to more strict screening rules. So fuck his whining.
 

54thMA

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Good question, the 5-6 days of fatigue was the most lingering thing for me (my SO and daughter had a 2-3 week fight, plus follow-up fatigue and loss of taste for the SO). I haven't since then tried to really ramp up my cardio, or do long runs, so I can't say conclusively that there wasn't healing that took place over a longer period of time. I'd say that my normal activities and workouts didn't/don't feel limited in a noticeable way. I'm carrying a couple of extra pounds that need more attention (don't think I'm alone there) - but that's inadequate activity, not covid.

With respect to your friend and his brother - by most logic there is no reason Jim Fixx should have died of a heart attack at 52 after a lifetime of exercise and running/cardio in particular. So who can really explain the difference in covid experience between these two brothers??? Anecdotally I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that nicotine use in the lungs might have had some affect in protecting/helping/coating the lungs from covid-19 or cytokine storm attacks. I wouldn't be able to find it and I can't say it was a conclusive paper... just something that caught my eye (and I dismissed it because I don't smoke). Strange things...

I think that is exactly where I fall on this, there is an awful lot of randomness in it, which generates an awful lot of uneasiness and frankly fear. The best I can personally do is keep my immune system strong (I've always struggled with good sleep) and be prudent, and listen to people I can trust - and I'll still likely make mistakes, right? The randomness/unknown is why I can't condemn folks that feel strongly opposed to the vaccine... it has to be their choice. I know others don't feel that way, and I'm honestly uncomfortable with that - but that conversation certainly doesn't belong in the NFL version of the covid thread.

Thank you... and it should go without saying, but all the best to you as well.
Thanks for the reply and your candor.

If your doctor is telling you you don't need the vaccine and if you are comfortable with that, then that's your choice and your decision, you've had COVID and he feels you don't need the vaccine.

This scenario and those who have a valid medical reason for not getting it; I'm fine with that.

What I am not fine with is people like my cousin who have been dead set against the vaccine since day one, but now he's hiding behind "I have concerns over its safety" nonsense.

He's full of shit and has been anti vaccine/anti mask/anti social distancing for an airborne virus all along.

Then there are those like a customer of mine from Waldoboro ME who's been fully vaccinated, as has his wife, yet he still wears a mask everywhere he goes, refuses to go to a restaurant, movie theater or any other sort of indoor gathering, drowns himself in hand sanitizer, strips down to his drawers upon returning home, takes a shower, puts on gloves, eye protection and a mask to retrieve his clothes from the mud room and then puts them in the washing machine.

He's going to die from stress before COVID.
 

RetractableRoof

tolerates intolerance
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2003
3,670
Quincy, MA
Thanks for the reply and your candor.

If your doctor is telling you you don't need the vaccine and if you are comfortable with that, then that's your choice and your decision, you've had COVID and he feels you don't need the vaccine.

This scenario and those who have a valid medical reason for not getting it; I'm fine with that.

What I am not fine with is people like my cousin who have been dead set against the vaccine since day one, but now he's hiding behind "I have concerns over its safety" nonsense.

He's full of shit and has been anti vaccine/anti mask/anti social distancing for an airborne virus all along.

Then there are those like a customer of mine from Waldoboro ME who's been fully vaccinated, as has his wife, yet he still wears a mask everywhere he goes, refuses to go to a restaurant, movie theater or any other sort of indoor gathering, drowns himself in hand sanitizer, strips down to his drawers upon returning home, takes a shower, puts on gloves, eye protection and a mask to retrieve his clothes from the mud room and then puts them in the washing machine.

He's going to die from stress before COVID.
Agreed: your customer will deal with stress before covid. Poor guy. We have a whole generation of kids (especially the younger ones) who've been programmed to act/think like this customer of yours - I'm saddened to think of the impact of it all. They'll be alive (but were they really in danger statistically to begin with?), but with some serious mental things to work through.

People who respect that this was a decision based on information from my Dr. aren't my issue. Being honest, my annoyance is geared to the people who inform me "doesn't matter what your Dr said, you have an obligation to get vaccinated" or like in this thread "you need a new doctor". I mean, I can't imagine hearing a person was being treated for HPV and demanding that they get the HPV vaccine (clearly a bad analogy, but it's the best I've got) so that my teenage kid would be safer.

I'm not going to touch your cousin's approach... I'm not defending him (or Beasley either, lol).
 

54thMA

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2012
8,302
Westwood MA
Agreed: your customer will deal with stress before covid. Poor guy. We have a whole generation of kids (especially the younger ones) who've been programmed to act/think like this customer of yours - I'm saddened to think of the impact of it all. They'll be alive (but were they really in danger statistically to begin with?), but with some serious mental things to work through.

People who respect that this was a decision based on information from my Dr. aren't my issue. Being honest, my annoyance is geared to the people who inform me "doesn't matter what your Dr said, you have an obligation to get vaccinated" or like in this thread "you need a new doctor". I mean, I can't imagine hearing a person was being treated for HPV and demanding that they get the HPV vaccine (clearly a bad analogy, but it's the best I've got) so that my teenage kid would be safer.

I'm not going to touch your cousin's approach... I'm not defending him (or Beasley either, lol).
COVID has taught me a number of life lessons to say the least; going through a worldwide pandemic should teach me life lessons.

I have a real world example of two extremes regarding COVID; my customer on one end of the spectrum, my cousin on the other.

My customer told me "I'm not going anywhere near crowds or to any indoor functions/gatherings until the number of new cases and deaths in the country hit zero for six months strait"...................................

I relayed this to my primary physician a short time ago; his reply "And how old is this person?".............I told him 70..................his reply "Yeah; he'll be dead before that happens"...........

Getting vaccinated should give everyone a sense of security; while on the one hand you don't to be reckless, on the other hand you need to live your life.

Thanks for the well wishes and again, I'm also wishing you the best.
 

kenneycb

Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play
SoSH Member
Dec 2, 2006
14,119
Tuukka's refugee camp
lol, ok. He's one of the top 5... his thinking contradicts yours (I assume) but my rationale is poor? I'm comfortable with my choices - it's others here telling me to get a second medical opinion. It was the conversation with my Dr that made me aware of Dr. KullDorff - who I then researched. If my Dr was informing his medical practice based on his knowledge of Dr. Kuldorff does that mean he was relying on an expert in his field or is that confirmation bias as well.

Guys, I was just explaining that my hypothetical was based on my personal experience - and without knowing anything about my medical history the non-medical experts on SoSH are telling me to find a new Dr. and that one of the top vaccine experts in the world who was working with the CDC on covid vaccine safety matters is not a good source of information, but merely confirmation bias. Maybe telling me to ignore my personal Drs advice is bias on the part of others???

Let's consider this part of the conversation done - when I need advice about selecting a new Dr I'll be sure to check the NFL covid thread for recommendations.
No your rationale is still poor because you are taking two people as proof points without taking into account the other information to the contrary. Why is this expert and your doctor more valid than other doctors and other experts? You haven’t said why outside of an appeal to authority with a made up vaccine expert ranking system. 1 of 5 agrees with your opinion. So again, what about the other 4?
 

gammoseditor

also had a stroke
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2005
3,428
Somerville, MA
The problem with Beasley is he is an extremely stupid person. “I may die of COVID, but I’d rather die actually living.” That statement has no basis in reality. Getting the vaccine doesn’t prevent you from doing anything.
 

genoasalami

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 4, 2006
2,186
The "we don't know the long term effects of taking the vaccine" argument is pretty weak. If you are going to have a side effect, it's gonna show up in the first two months, and for most people the only side effects occur in the first few days after taking the vaccine. There is not a vaccine in existence that produced unwanted side effect years down the road. They just don't work that way. That includes mRNA vaccines which have been studied for decades.
 

EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
Staff member
Dope
Apr 9, 2007
13,596
Washington
People believe what they want to believe and it isn't that hard to find a few credentialed people here and there who are willing to play the skeptic.

That the current vaccines have changed the course of the pandemic and saved hundreds of thousands of lives in the US is incontrovertible. The more people get vaccines, the better protected are those who physically can't and the better the overall community is protected is also fact. I understand that lots of people are hesitant about the vaccines, but I think anyone who is physically able to get one, but doesn't, is a coward who is willing to watch others take an extremely small risk to protect their community and get society back on a path to normalcy while doing nothing.
 

cornwalls@6

Less observant than others
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
3,238
from the wilds of western ma
People believe what they want to believe and it isn't that hard to find a few credentialed people here and there who are willing to play the skeptic.

That the current vaccines have changed the course of the pandemic and saved hundreds of thousands of lives in the US is incontrovertible. The more people get vaccines, the better protected are those who physically can't and the better the overall community is protected is also fact. I understand that lots of people are hesitant about the vaccines, but I think anyone who is physically able to get one, but doesn't, is a coward who is willing to watch others take an extremely small risk to protect their community and get society back on a path to normalcy while doing nothing.
A risk so low, that many of them take it regularly with other prescription meds and vaccines. Yet somehow, inexplicably, the one that is actually working, borderline miraculously well, to stop a devastating pandemic in it's tracks, is a bridge too far.
 

cornwalls@6

Less observant than others
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
3,238
from the wilds of western ma
Bringing this back to the NFL, I can't imagine too many borderline/low on the depth chart/special teamers will refuse to get it. Though teams likely can't openly, and directly release a player for not getting it, I can imagine that being used, quietly, as a tie-breaker when deciding whether to keep a guy like that on the roster. Going forward, seems like top tier players, in their prime, with significant cap implications, might be the only ones who can comfortably hold out.
 

Caspir

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
6,001
No offense here, but his advice (with complete knowledge of my medical history) coincides with the thoughts of one of the top 5 vaccine experts (a pro-covid-19 vaccine person) in the world. With what medical basis (starting with little knowledge of my personal medical history) do you make your recommendation that I should seek a second opinion? I don't know your profession, so I'm not making any assumptions.
Where are the vaccine expert rankings published and what are their criteria? Very interested to learn more about that process.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
27,864
Here
View: https://twitter.com/albertbreer/status/1405560942608461830?s=21

Sources: Two teams have crossed the much-talked about 85% threshold for player vaccinations (fully vaccinated or in the process). Those two are the Dolphins and Saints. Nothing's agreed upon yet, but NFL and NFLPA have discussed relaxed protocols for teams over that threshold.


Has anyone heard anything regarding the vaccination rate of the Patriots players? I have found this article where BB is quoted as saying that their information campaign is great, but no numbers.
Not a direct answer, but this was cool :)

View: https://twitter.com/wbzsports/status/1405522273407225856?s=10
 

54thMA

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2012
8,302
Westwood MA
The "we don't know the long term effects of taking the vaccine" argument is pretty weak. If you are going to have a side effect, it's gonna show up in the first two months, and for most people the only side effects occur in the first few days after taking the vaccine. There is not a vaccine in existence that produced unwanted side effect years down the road. They just don't work that way. That includes mRNA vaccines which have been studied for decades.
Thanks for posting this; people I've spoken with in the medical field concur with this, ie, vaccines don't produce side effects "down the road"..............any issues occur shortly after getting it.

I tried explaining this to my cousin when he was dead set against getting it from jump, but now he's choosing the heart issue side effect as his hill to die on; like I said, I give up with him.

I'd hate for him or anyone else to contract COVID and either die from it or have long term issues with it, both scenarios being totally preventable by getting a simple vaccination.

Apparently doing for the greater good is not in his wheelhouse either.

Sorry to take this thread off topic, but these are important points that need to be brought up.
 
Jun 9, 2010
545
Upstate NY
Not to derail the thread, but I'm a Bills fan. I'm 40 years old, and have waited for the better part of 20 years for my team to be relevant again, let alone have a legitimate shot at a Super Bowl. If this is derailed because dumbass Beasley doesn't play, or Allen refuses to get vaccinated and ends up with Covid, I may go off the deep end.
 

Jimbodandy

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
5,723
around the way
.

Fine, then player X... Question still stands. Player X who is has not making a public stance, but quietly declining the vaccine. Let's say he's your neighbor, so you know privately he's not getting it because his Dr. advised against it. He still get the pitchfork brigade?
Pitchfork brigade? Who's coming after his job? He has to wear a mask and follow different rules. His choice.

Sure some of also think that he's an ill-informed shithead, but not sure what's pitchforky about that.
 

Ale Xander

Lacks black ink
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
40,793
Not to derail the thread, but I'm a Bills fan. I'm 40 years old, and have waited for the better part of 20 years for my team to be relevant again, let alone have a legitimate shot at a Super Bowl. If this is derailed because dumbass Beasley doesn't play, or Allen refuses to get vaccinated and ends up with Covid, I may go off the deep end.
I wouldn't worry. Nobody circles the wagons like the Buffalo Bills.