On The Clock at #3. Time To Go on Record.

[Pxer]

Let your preference be known.

This has been a tough draft to gauge, but it's been a lot of fun tracking the players after Ingram and Simmons.

You've got (alphabetically):

Bender - has a lot of tools you like in a stretch big, but hasn't played a ton of big-time minutes, nor have we had the chance to scrutinize his play like many of the college players.

Brown - might be a little superfluous on this Cs roster, but he's got a nice ceiling if he can refine his shot/distribution.

Chriss - oodles of potential, but there's a TON of projetability you have to account for in taking him.

Dunn - seems like he will be a very solid NBA player that has a polished game that might induce a bidding war.

Hield - ready-made shooter that should be a gamer from the opening tip of the 16-17 season; lower ceiling.

Murray - can score and projects well as a shooter yet has major defensive question marks that limit his upside.

Other - I can't see anyone else even being in consideration for the top 3, but there are almost always players that end up surprising us.

The poll closes in 3 days. I guess we can use this for bragging rights some day.

 

[Pxer]

I was #TeamBender from the outset, but got pulled into really wanting a shooter/scorer (Murray). I think I've finally settled on Brown at this point, though. He could be a true star, and will probably be a plus-rebounder and -defender at the NBA level.

I like his athleticism, and if he can improve his ability from long-range and can improve his handle, he has a chance to be the best player in this draft.

 

[Devizier]

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/your-preferred-celtic-target-at-3.14027/page-11#post-1748560

 

[Pxer]

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/your-preferred-celtic-target-at-3.14027/page-11#post-1748560

I did forget there was a poll included earlier. I think things have changed enough over the last several weeks, we're due for another heat check.

I like the fact that the results are public on this one.

If this is too redundant, so be it -- I have draft fever this week.

 

[DJnVa]

EDIT: Figured it out.

 

[amfox1]

Bender. Swing for the fences (assuming there's no trade to be made, which would still be my preference). Based on the limited info we have, Bender looks like he has the highest ceiling in the draft after Simmons/Ingram.

 

[Koufax]

What amfox1 said.

 

[Sprowl]

I did forget there was a poll included earlier. I think things have changed enough over the last several weeks, we're due for another heat check.

I like the fact that the results are public on this one.

If this is too redundant, so be it -- I have draft fever this week.

I've come down with draft fever too. I'm still on TeamBender, as the player with the highest ceiling. Also, the rumor dropping suggests that Okafor could be had by a package not including #3. Either that means that Ainge has another deal lined up in exchange for #3 (Phoenix wants Dunn as much as Philadelphia, no?), or he has seen something he really likes in one of the next echelon (Bender, Brown, Chriss, Hield, Murray).

Bender, Olynyk and Crowder spotting up around the arc while Tiny and DJ attack the lane could give fits to traditionally constructed teams.

 

[BigSoxFan]

 

[RG33]

I stand by the somewhat biased fact that Ainge is going to take Kris Dunn. He is the guy that we have probably heard the least about from the "experts" involving the Celtics and #3 which makes sense since Ainge has seen him play a ton of times due to the locale of his college games, and to me, he just seems like an Ainge payer. Elite D, good work ethic, has gotten better, NBA quickness, etc. I think he is the BPA at #3 and think the Celtics take him if they make a pick there, regardless of current roster construction.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Bender, I think he has the best combination of upside/floor of the available players, and I think he's the kind of player who should work with just about any other combination of players. He just seems like a really great fit for what the Celtics would like to do on both sides of the ball. I'd consider Brown, Chriss and maybe Dunn after that.

 

[MillarTime]

I stand by the somewhat biased fact that Ainge is going to take Kris Dunn. He is the guy that we have probably heard the least about from the "experts" involving the Celtics and #3 which makes sense since Ainge has seen him play a ton of times due to the locale of his college games, and to me, he just seems like an Ainge payer. Elite D, good work ethic, has gotten better, NBA quickness, etc. I think he is the BPA at #3 and think the Celtics take him if they make a pick there, regardless of current roster construction.

I actually am thinking the exact same thing.

 

[DJnVa]

I stand by the somewhat biased fact that Ainge is going to take Kris Dunn. He is the guy that we have probably heard the least about from the "experts" involving the Celtics and #3 which makes sense since Ainge has seen him play a ton of times due to the locale of his college games,.

So, Ainge was actually at a bunch of PC games this season? How many would make a difference versus the the fact that every single game these college guys play is available to Ainge to review?

 

[Kliq]

I like Chriss for the same reasons people like Bender. Swing for the fences and nab that potential. Chriss is an aggressive athlete that plays with some swagger and has so much potential at different facets of the game. As a defender he can guard multiple positions and be destructive in the passing lanes and protecting the rim. He has the perfect combination of range and agility to handle the pick and roll on switches, a must-have for any good big man. On offense he relies a lot on his athleticism, but his stroke looks good even if he hasn't totally refined it. Maybe not the best player available right away but I think he has the potential to be the best player in the draft.

 

[bowiac]

Bender.

He has the highest realistic ceiling available, and probably the best expected value. Floor doesn't matter, since the floor for everyone available at #3 this year is washing out of the league. I could live with Dunn or Murray.

Taking Chriss or Brown would make me despondent.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

So, Ainge was actually at a bunch of PC games this season? How many would make a difference versus the the fact that every single game these college guys play is available to Ainge to review?

Yes, Ainge was at a minimum of 3 home games that I know of in Providence and at least one road game I believe was (I believe) at Marquette to see both Dunn and Ellenson. I don't place much weight on the travel thing.....a one-hour drive to Providence or a two-hour flight to see another prospect isn't going to matter unless you feel Ainge is lazy at his job.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I see a completely different player in Bender than most of you guys do. I don't understand where the high ceiling comes from as he seems to be a certain rotation player without the fluidity in his game to be on the level of Porzingis. To me he is the polar opposite of swinging for the fences.....if I'm taking Bender (which I'm certainly not at 3) I'm doing so with the expectation that he is the safe pick.

 

[tims4wins]

I see a completely different player in Bender than most of you guys do. I don't understand where the high ceiling comes from as he seems to be a certain rotation player without the fluidity in his game to be on the level of Porzingis. To me he is the polar opposite of swinging for the fences.....if I'm taking Bender (which I'm certainly not at 3) I'm doing so with the expectation that he is the safe pick.

This is where I am too - isn't Chriss the biggest swing for the fences guy?

 

[Cellar-Door]

This is where I am too - isn't Chriss the biggest swing for the fences guy?

Chriss is definitely the biggest swing for the fences guy.

I'm probably one of the highest on Bender here. I agree with both of you that his floor is high, but i also think his ceiling is pretty high.

His ceiling to me is that he could potentially give you almost all of what Draymond gives you, except he's 7'1" and could end up a better 3 pt. shooter than Green.

Now, he probably won't reach his ceiling, most players don't, but I think his best case scenario is a guy who can defend all 3 front court positions well, hold his own on switches, pass extremely well for a big man, stretch the floor and make 3s, attack the occasional closeout and scrap on the boards. I don't see him as an offensive focal point ISO type scorer but more a good 2nd/3rd option and facilitator.

 

[RG33]

So, Ainge was actually at a bunch of PC games this season? How many would make a difference versus the the fact that every single game these college guys play is available to Ainge to review?

Yes. On a relative basis, Ainge saw much more of Dunn than the other guys. And probably knows a lot more local folks who know Dunn etc. Is it really that much of a reach or you just feeling frisky today?

 

[snowmanny]

I'll pick and guess Murray. Too much scoring potential to pass up.

 

[DJnVa]

Yes. On a relative basis, Ainge saw much more of Dunn than the other guys. And probably knows a lot more local folks who know Dunn etc. Is it really that much of a reach or you just feeling frisky today?

Not at all.

I'm thinking that Ainge has probably seen every game that the top college guys on his list have played. I'm not trying to be frisky, but I just don't know if seeing Brown 30+ times on tape and Dunn 30+ times on tape plus 5 or 6 in person really moves the needle. These guys aren't some under the radar Euro that there's no tape on and those in person games mean much more.

Sorry if that came across differently than I intended.

 

[Jeff Van GULLY]

Draft Dunn and trade Bradley or Smart with other pieces for a front court upgrade.

 

[RG33]

Not at all.

I'm thinking that Ainge has probably seen every game that the top college guys on his list have played. I'm not trying to be frisky, but I just don't know if seeing Brown 30+ times on tape and Dunn 30+ times on tape plus 5 or 6 in person really moves the needle. These guys aren't some under the radar Euro that there's no tape on and those in person games mean much more.

Sorry if that came across differently than I intended.

I get that they have film on all these guys, but I'm just saying Ainge probably saw Dunn play 4-5 times live, probably talked to a lot more folks that had direct involvement with him, etc. Either way, I was just pointing out that I don't think it is strange that we haven't heard much about the Celtics working him out or liking him or whatever, Ainge probably already has his book on him. I think they take him. Being a PC alum, I'm completely biased and irrational about this.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Not at all.

I'm thinking that Ainge has probably seen every game that the top college guys on his list have played. I'm not trying to be frisky, but I just don't know if seeing Brown 30+ times on tape and Dunn 30+ times on tape plus 5 or 6 in person really moves the needle. These guys aren't some under the radar Euro that there's no tape on and those in person games mean much more.

Sorry if that came across differently than I intended.

There was a similar discussion in one of these draft threads - I don't remember which and I didn't make the argument, so I'll prob mess it up - and the argument was made that seeing a player live you get to see more off the ball movement, his body language, how he acts in the huddle or with teammates, speak in a more relaxed setting to those that know him, etc, and that there is a tangible advantage to be gained as opposed to just watching film.

There's logically something there, it's just a matter of how much.

 

[mauf]

The C's are unusually good for a team with the 3rd overall pick. That doesn't mean they should draft based on short-term need, but it probably does mean they should take the BPA who can earn meaningful minutes on a 45-win team, which might not be the same guy as the BPA for a terrible team that can give developmental minutes to a guy who really isn't ready for prime time. That's Bender, imo -- he might have the highest ceiling, but he's not going to develop with his ass stapled to the bench in Boston; let him go someplace like Phoenix where he can play 25 minutes a night. Same goes for Chriss, though I think he's more of a trade-down target than a viable option at #3.

I think I'd go for Murray and gamble on his ability to develop into a decent defender.

 

[DJnVa]

All I know is that when they announce the pick, half this board will be satisfied and half will be pissed.

 

[nighthob]

I'm going with Dunn for two reasons, first, a bunch of teams want him and Boston would control the auction. Second, if it's absolutely necessary as part of a deal for a young all-star, it leaves you the option of moving Lil' Zeke with Dunn there man the spot.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I've been a Bender guy from jumpstreet but I have been trying to talk myself into Brown lately because Lord knows, they need a wing like Brown and they don't grow on trees. Still, it seems like Brown is more likely to be Jason Richardson than Leonard.

 

[Cellar-Door]

All I know is that when they announce the pick, half this board will be satisfied and half will be pissed.

I think it depends on who it is. I'd guess there are a few players who most people here are fine with and a few the majority would hate.
(Personally as long as it isn't Murray or Hield I'll be fine, maybe a bit disappointed in some of them but not pissed.)

 

[JohnnyTheBone]

Hey Danny...

Don't you forget about me!

 

[bowiac]

My sense is Dunn will elicit the lowest ratio of hate, while Hield will elicit the highest.

 

[schillzilla]

I want Danny to swing for the fences. To me the true swing for the fences play is to trade 3 for a 2017 first from PHX, SAC maybe MIL or some other team who is desperate to improve but you identify as lottery bound. I would be fine gambling on that pick being as far back as 6 or 7, as I think next years 6 is going to rate higher than this years 3 (2017 has a chance to be a loaded draft).

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Draft Dunn and trade Bradley or Smart with other pieces for a front court upgrade.

I'm torn here. To me Dunn is clearly the BPA at 3 and is actually 2nd on my board behind Ingram and ahead of Simmons. I want the best for this kid though and this would be the worst situation for him with Isaiah also needing the ball in his hands to create so the human part of me wants him in Philly, Minnesota, or New Orleans.

With so many teams looking to trade up for Dunn he should be the guy at 3 while being used in a similar fashion that Wiggins was to bring in the best package for him prior to training camp. I do like Jaylen more than most here and I'd be happy with him as well.

Now this is IF we keep the pick which I haven't ever believed we would be doing. I expect a draft night trade involving the pick.

 

[DisgruntledSoxFan77]

I get that they have film on all these guys, but I'm just saying Ainge probably saw Dunn play 4-5 times live, probably talked to a lot more folks that had direct involvement with him, etc. Either way, I was just pointing out that I don't think it is strange that we haven't heard much about the Celtics working him out or liking him or whatever, Ainge probably already has his book on him. I think they take him. Being a PC alum, I'm completely biased and irrational about this.

Weren't there reports out that he'd refused to do workouts for certain teams *the Celtics being one of them*?

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I want the best for this kid though and this would be the worst situation for him with Isaiah also needing the ball in his hands to create

Does Isaiah need the ball in his hands, though? Moving him off the ball gave him and the C's some temporary life against the Hawks.

 

[Granite Sox]

I voted Bender, but the commentary on Dunn is fascinating as well.

I think Hield and Murray are too uni-dimensional (even though shooting/scoring is a big need on this team), and Brown doesn't shoot well enough despite his toughness and athleticism.

Bender is tall and can shoot, but years away from impacting the current squad. It's a bit of a dilemma for the Celts unless they have trades lined up (in which case the Dunn scenario makes sense as the actual trade chip or as a backfill for a departing G(s)).

 

[Auger34]

I'm torn here. To me Dunn is clearly the BPA at 3 and is actually 2nd on my board behind Ingram and ahead of Simmons. I want the best for this kid though and this would be the worst situation for him with Isaiah also needing the ball in his hands to create so the human part of me wants him in Philly, Minnesota, or New Orleans.

With so many teams looking to trade up for Dunn he should be the guy at 3 while being used in a similar fashion that Wiggins was to bring in the best package for him prior to training camp. I do like Jaylen more than most here and I'd be happy with him as well.

Now this is IF we keep the pick which I haven't ever believed we would be doing. I expect a draft night trade involving the pick.

Since this is the time to go on record thread, what veteran do you think they trade for?

 

[Auger34]

Personally, I think they take Dunn because he has the best combination of ceiling and floor. He also offers the most flexibility because he seems like the guy most teams are interested in trading for.

 

[DJnVa]

Weren't there reports out that he'd refused to do workouts for certain teams *the Celtics being one of them*?

Yes. Which is why this discussion was about Ainge seeing him play at PC.

 

[Valek123]

I went Buddy Hield in the last vote, but have changed to Bender for two reasons.
1) Potential long-term upside and age which could also bite the C's in the butt as he could very well be the next skinny white euro player who never develops if not for...
2) Brad Stevens - the college coach turned pro, who better to take an 18 year old kid into his program and sculpt him into the top versions of his potential. With the long-term contract already in-place for Brad, I'd be surprised if they don't make this draft pick, but it's the NBA draft and perhaps at the workout (today I believe) Stevens makes the determination he just isn't the right guy.
It's a crap shoot, and we'll all look back at this draft in 10 years and be blown away by how Malik Beasley or Denzel Valentine fell out of the top 10 and became the next "Paul Pierce - driven to take down every draft pick above him" turning into stars. I think if the C's didn't have all the other 1st round picks they would be more conservative in this draft, but with so many picks it's big upside time.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

Chose Dunn here, also good with Bender. Hield would be a really uninspired and disappointing choice. The other three are somewhere in between.

 

[Pxer]

My sense is Dunn will elicit the lowest ratio of hate, while Hield will elicit the highest.

This is spot on. Hield is really the only one I would be upset at. I think a lot of us will say we trust the decision the Celtics made regardless of who is selected, given their extensive scouting. Hield is the exception -- I just don't see the big upside.

 

[DJnVa]

I will console myself with the thought that if they go with Hield then maybe they feel pretty good about a FA or two, and that Hield will serve a very specific need a team that is beefing up through free agency.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Since this is the time to go on record thread, what veteran do you think they trade for?

I said it at the trade deadline......I truly feel Ainge loves Okafor and the value he provides on his rookie contract as a Sully upgrade.

 

[Rudi Fingers]

My preference is Dunn, as the Celtics are too good for a "swing for the fences" pick this year. I think Dunn's defense is more of a sure thing for this year than the potential offense of Brown or Chriss (though Chriss is my second choice for his defense), and a streaky shooter like Hield is not worthy of a #3 pick in any draft.

After that, it's time to keep trusting Trader Danny with his stash of guards and draft picks.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Weren't there reports out that he'd refused to do workouts for certain teams *the Celtics being one of them*?

First off you have to realize that this isn't the players decisions here.....it is the agents making these calls. It's why they get paid.

Secondly, it is true that Boston and Phoenix were the two teams Dunn did not workout for or send any medical information to as both teams are well stocked in the backcourt. It was a good move on their part as Philly, Minnesota, and New Orleans are ideal situations for Dunn to step in on day one to run his team.....as opposed to being part of a backcourt mix.

The caveat here is that Phoenix, along with Philly and NO, have been the teams on hard since last fall so if a Bledsoe trade goes down the Suns, like the Celtics, have plenty of information on Dunn to draft him anyway.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Does Isaiah need the ball in his hands, though? Moving him off the ball gave him and the C's some temporary life against the Hawks.

Isaiah is a lead guard who has always had the ball in his hands. How do you move him off the ball when Bradley and Smart already occupy that position? If Dunn came here it woudn't be his team right away as it would in other situations. There would be no clear role here which is why his team doesn't want Dunn in Boston. I don't blame them at all.

 

[ElcaballitoMVP]

Isaiah is a lead guard who has always had the ball in his hands. How do you move him off the ball when Bradley and Smart already occupy that position? If Dunn came here it woudn't be his team right away as it would in other situations. There would be no clear role here which is why his team doesn't want Dunn in Boston. I don't blame them at all.

I've actually been thinking along the same lines as Eddie. IT did have success off the ball in the Hawks series. If the C's are just going to make the pick and be done, I agree Dunn doesn't fit well with their guards.

But Danny isn't just making his picks and going home. He's got work to do. If, for example, they move Bradley for an upgrade elsewhere, they could start Dunn/IT in the back court with Smart off the bench. Dunn guards the 2's on defense and initiates the offense while IT guards 1's and runs around picks all day.

If they move Smart for that upgrade, they could start IT/Bradley and bring Dunn off the bench in his rookie season.

Or you keep both of those guys and move IT. There are a lot of options if Danny goes this route. Add to the fact that Dunn looks exactly like the type of prospect that Danny would fall in love with, and I could see Dunn as the pick.

Dunn/IT/Crowder/Okafor/Horford or IT/Bradley/Crowder/Okafor/Horford with Dunn off the bench.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I've actually been thinking along the same lines as Eddie. IT did have success off the ball in the Hawks series. If the C's are just going to make the pick and be done, I agree Dunn doesn't fit well with their guards.

But Danny isn't just making his picks and going home. He's got work to do. If, for example, they move Bradley for an upgrade elsewhere, they could start Dunn/IT in the back court with Smart off the bench. Dunn guards the 2's on defense and initiates the offense while IT guards 1's and runs around picks all day.

If they move Smart for that upgrade, they could start IT/Bradley and bring Dunn off the bench in his rookie season.

Or you keep both of those guys and move IT. There are a lot of options if Danny goes this route. Add to the fact that Dunn looks exactly like the type of prospect that Danny would fall in love with, and I could see Dunn as the pick.

Dunn/IT/Crowder/Okafor/Horford or IT/Bradley/Crowder/Okafor/Horford with Dunn off the bench.

I agree in that Ainge would select Dunn as he's the clear BPA in my eyes. Your post also procides precisely the reasons why his agents don't want him in Boston and are liking working on deals to ensure one of their preferred destinations get that 3rd pick.