Offside or?

[thehitcat]

OK this just happened in my FM save so take that for what it's worth. Allan St. Maximin (whoops wrong winger) received a pass in an onside position in the box and shot it. The shot rebounded off the post and St. Maximin who was now further forward than any player other than the goalie got his own rebound and slotted it home. The game not only said it was a good goal it didn't even review the play for a potential offside with VAR. Also on replay I noted that the linesman never raised his flag but I realized that I don't actually know the rule in this area. It touched no one else it was a clean initial shot that struck the foot of the right post and St. Maximin who had followed the initial shot picked it up with only the goalie to beat and did so. So is it because the initial ball (the first shot) was taken from an onside position and no one touched it that St. Maximin was still considered onside? Or was this a glitch? Help me SoSH friends.

Also I just found out that you can't be offside if you are the first receive a goal kick (I knew about Corners and Throws but the Goal Kick thing was new to me.)

 

[swiftaw]

You can’t be offside from your own pass/shot.

 

[thehitcat]

See in all my reading I really wish I had seen that thanks @swiftaw That is concise and exactly what I needed but couldn't find but perhaps it was because I was looking for rebound.

 

[thehitcat]

Also hilariously (to me) Almiron got caught a good stride offside on a goal called back by VAR later in the second half so now I've jinxed him.

 

[SumnerH]

An offside offence requires you to be in an offside position when the ball is played or touched by a teammate or saved by an opponent (and other criteria are met: you have to be involved with the play, etc).

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside

A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:

• interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
• interfering with an opponent by:
• preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
• challenging an opponent for the ball or
• clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
• making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball
  or
• gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has:
• rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar or an opponent
• been deliberately saved by any opponent

A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent.

A ‘save’ is when a player stops, or attempts to stop, a ball which is going into or very close to the goal with any part of the body except the hands/arms (unless the goalkeeper within the penalty area).

Note that the bolded is still under the sub-heading of being offside at the moment when a teammate plays or touches the ball.

 

[SocrManiac]

There are a few nuances and tricks of the offside rule that some refs even get wrong, simply because they come up so rarely. One of my CBs had an absolutely unnatural cannon that we'd surprise opponents with. I'd take the goal kicks for awhile, drawing them forward, then hand a few off to him. He'd hit it about 10 yards short of the opposite 18 on an absolute line. We'd have a deep in their area waiting for it, far beyond any defenders. The only "danger" was the random referee that didn't know the rule.

Also, there's no "offsides" in soccer if you don't want to turn heads.

 

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

When I ran rec soccer in our town, I'd email this video to all the new coaches, and suggest that they may want to FW to all the parents on the team, and then I'd just wait for the replies......

View: https://youtu.be/JmC9JOcaofI

 

[BrazilianSoxFan]

And to add to SumnerH post, to be in an offside position one needs to be ahead of the ball at the moment of the touch.

Even if the goalposts counted as a pass/touch, which they don't, a player can't be ahead of them.

 

[Zososoxfan]

When I ran rec soccer in our town, I'd email this video to all the new coaches, and suggest that they may want to FW to all the parents on the team, and then I'd just wait for the replies......

View: https://youtu.be/JmC9JOcaofI

Cleese is the best. He was tremendous and underrated in Rat Race. When the rich guys bet on random things (other than the race itself), I completely lose it.

Also, I didn't know about the corollary about the ball needing to be played forward. Is that true??

 

[swiftaw]

The way I read the rules you can be offside on a pass that is played backwards if you were ahead of the ball when it was played and then moved back to retrieve it.

It’s the relative position of the recipient and the ball when passed that matters, not the direction of the pass.

 

[Humphrey]

If an inexperienced official gets to work 9 on 9 on an 80 yard field (or a 7 on 7 on an even smaller field; but 7 on 7 sometimes is played w/no offside rule); you'll definitely get your share of offside/not offside on kicks down the field.

Goal kicks- no offside on the kick regardless of where the receiver of the kick is. Goalie pass or punt- offside if the receiver is beyond midfield when the ball is passed/punted. Same as pass or punt if, instead of a goal kick, the restart is a direct kick going out; for example, the keeper is pushed while trying to make a save. Sometimes if you're not paying attention you think it's a goal kick but it isn't and the "no offside" rule applies.

Regarding any pass from a teammate, offside is determined by where the receiver is when the ball is played to them, not by where they end up. For example, the receiver is 10 yards beyond midfield and the defenders are all 5 yards closer to midfield. The pass is made to the receiver but he doesn't touch the ball until he moves back behind the midfield line. Still offside !

 

[SocrManiac]

If this turns into a general rules obscura post... I had one late in my playing days that really caught me out. It is, of course, no longer a thing.

Not long ago, on goal kicks all players needed to be outside of the penalty area and the kicking team's players could only touch the ball once it crossed the line. Turns out, that's not a goal kick rule, that was the rule for any kick taken within a team's area.

I learned this in a bizarre way. I rather comfortably beat a forward to a ball toward the right corner of the box while maintaining my feet. The forward slid through me and wiped me out. On the ensuing free kick, still shaken, I rolled the ball to a teammate in the area. He took it to move forward and the ref whistled for an indirect kick from inside the box. Rough way to learn that one. I'm shocked it hadn't come up in 30 years playing, or that no ref had at least called it before.

 

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

Cleese is the best. He was tremendous and underrated in Rat Race. When the rich guys bet on random things (other than the race itself), I completely lose it.

I should mention that on rare occasions I'd get a coach (usually guys who didn't know a lick about soccer) who didn't get that the video is a goof, and they took the video as totally instructional/informative.

 

[Conigliaro's Potential]

This is the part of the offside law I think the most people would be surprised to learn: there have to be two players between the attacking player and the goal line when the ball is passed or shot. Most people assume it's just the one player, because the goalkeeper is almost always the second player...but there are occasionally times when the keeper comes out of his six-yard box or the ball is being passed along the goal line when the keeper is not behind the last attacker. (Italy scored a goal in the third-place match at Italia 90 against England that should have been disallowed which I always think about in this context.)

 

[thehitcat]

Also because I know you're all wondering. We're seven matches further into the season and Almiron still hasn't scored. I really think I broke him. Also this conversation is why I love SoSH.

 

[wiffleballhero]

I'm sorry if I'm being obtuse and simply not seeing the issue, but isn't this pretty simple and obvious:

to be in an offside position one needs to be ahead of the ball

 

[Humphrey]

If this turns into a general rules obscura post... I had one late in my playing days that really caught me out. It is, of course, no longer a thing.

Not long ago, on goal kicks all players needed to be outside of the penalty area and the kicking team's players could only touch the ball once it crossed the line. Turns out, that's not a goal kick rule, that was the rule for any kick taken within a team's area.

I learned this in a bizarre way. I rather comfortably beat a forward to a ball toward the right corner of the box while maintaining my feet. The forward slid through me and wiped me out. On the ensuing free kick, still shaken, I rolled the ball to a teammate in the area. He took it to move forward and the ref whistled for an indirect kick from inside the box. Rough way to learn that one. I'm shocked it hadn't come up in 30 years playing, or that no ref had at least called it before.

I was refereeing a game last year, U14, on a maximum size field (120 X 75) and one of the teams absolutely refused to take advantage of the new goal kick rule; repeatedly creating scoring chances for their opponent (who couldn't take advantage of them) by trying and failing to kick the ball deep. No one within 25 yards from where the ball was spotted; instead of any number of options that are now available.

 

[67YAZ]

I was refereeing a game last year, U14, on a maximum size field (120 X 75) and one of the teams absolutely refused to take advantage of the new goal kick rule; repeatedly creating scoring chances for their opponent (who couldn't take advantage of them) by trying and failing to kick the ball deep. No one within 25 yards from where the ball was spotted; instead of any number of options that are now available.

Gotta be the coach’s calculation. I won’t let my son’s U12 side play it short on any free kick from our own third - we don’t have the skill to play out from the back. A 50/50 ball at midfield is much better odds for us.

Apprently Sam Dyche is my coaching model.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Gotta be the coach’s calculation. I won’t let my son’s U12 side play it short on any free kick from our own third - we don’t have the skill to play out from the back. A 50/50 ball at midfield is much better odds for us.

Apprently Sam Dyche is my coaching model.

Yup. To steal a line from Klopp, "No playmaker in the world can be as good as a 10-year-old keeper hitting it short to a defender with no idea what to do."

 

[DJnVa]

I'm sorry if I'm being obtuse and simply not seeing the issue, but isn't this pretty simple and obvious:

Two players in on keeper beyond last defender, ball played back to trailing runner. Without saying one needs to be ahead of the ball to be offside, you could say that the trailer was played a ball without 2 defenders between him and the goal.

 

[SocrManiac]

It’s funny, it’s such a simple rule and an obvious intent, but crafting the language to define what is intuitively clear is so difficult. The similarities to the NFL and catches are apparent. You know what it is when you see it and you need clear language for fairness, but that language is so elusive.