How do they know not to answer the phone if they haven't heard your offer yet?It would get the Wizards to answer the phone but without including high draft picks to the package I don't see how it would be nearly enough to land Beal.
How do they know not to answer the phone if they haven't heard your offer yet?It would get the Wizards to answer the phone but without including high draft picks to the package I don't see how it would be nearly enough to land Beal.
I love this board sometimes.How do they know not to answer the phone if they haven't heard your offer yet?
Because WAS has ESPn.How do they know not to answer the phone if they haven't heard your offer yet?
Is Kemba/Tatum/Beal markedly better than John Wall/Beal/Otto Porter
The data doesn't support it.To me, the answer is yes and it is not very close.
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-marcus-morris-fires-agent-rich-paul-20190714-ukiwxagbkvdbrayopyqgs6m2ye-story.htmlNew Knick Marcus Morris and his agent Rich Paul have agreed to part ways, sources told the Daily News. The contentious separation comes after a controversial free agency in which Morris, 29, signed a one-year, $15 million deal with the Knicks because he reneged on an agreement with the Spurs for two years, $20 million.
Because if he refuses to sign extension that the Wizards can offer him in 2 weeks, it's a de facto trade request and the Wizards won't want to lose him for nothing.It would get the Wizards to answer the phone but without including high draft picks to the package I don't see how it would be nearly enough to land Beal.
He is signed through next season though. So while it may be wise to get more for him by moving him this year, they still do have some time to make a move should they chooseBecause if he refuses to sign extension that the Wizards can offer him in 2 weeks, it's a de facto trade request and the Wizards won't want to lose him for nothing.
Data from when, though? The primary reasons it is better are:The data doesn't support it.
After the AD stuff, I wonder if teams will move sooner. You could also conceivable get more by trading him sooner.He is signed through next season though. So while it may be wise to get more for him by moving him this year, they still do have some time to make a move should they choose
I suppose that it can't hurt to try to get more, and you probably generally do get more with more service time remaining under contract. But the AD return was glorious in and of itself.After the AD stuff, I wonder if teams will move sooner. You could also conceivable get more by trading him sooner.
Yeah I think George and Westbrook showed that there’s value in moving the guy proactively. Although Washington has zero path to contention before his contract is up, so I imagine everyone in the league is treating him as available regardless of what he and the team say.I suppose that it can't hurt to try to get more, and you probably generally do get more with more service time remaining under contract. But the AD return was glorious in and of itself.
The interesting new info here is that he turned down 3/41 from the Clippers before agreeing with the Spurs to begin with, very odd offseason for MaMo.
agreed. Washington wasn't going anywhere with Beal and Wall anyways. Why wait for John Wall return when we've seen that dynamic duo? They now suck with Beal, they'll suck without him, might as well add future assets and save a few $$$ in the process.Yeah I think George and Westbrook showed that there’s value in moving the guy proactively. Although Washington has zero path to contention before his contract is up, so I imagine everyone in the league is treating him as available regardless of what he and the team say.
Excited to see which GM will be next to trade all his picks through 2026.
He didn't want him on LAC competing with his meal tickets on the Lakers?Agreed, that is nugget that jumped out for me as well.
So that tees up the question: what was the advice from Paul around turning it down, and why?
Yeah, I think there will turn out to be more to this story. You don’t tell a guy like Mook to turn down 3/41 unless another team is telling you already have something.He didn't want him on LAC competing with his meal tickets on the Lakers?
The reporting is that they could still fit Kawhi/George with Morris, and they moved on to adding Harkless once Morris turned them down, so it doesn’t really seem like it was a plan B to the Kawhi addition.or maybe the 3/41 was conditional on Kawhi not coming there. Much like how Danny Green joined the Lakers.
https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2019/07/marcus-morris-turned-down-41-million-from-clippers-before-spurs-knicks-mess-firing-agent-rich-paul-report.html(Note that article was from before the NYDN confirmed 3 years).If the Clippers offered Morris a three-year deal, it would have started at just over $13 million, which would have still allowed the Kawhi Leonard and Paul George moves. According to Bondy, the Clippers turned to Moe Harkless after Morris rejected them.
Nor has Boston, the historical greatest rival of the Lakers, signed any Klutch clients either. Nor Detroit (who traded us Mook), not until Markieff signed there last week.Funny how Morris would up in the one place where he has no impact on Lakers. Funny that.
Yeah, unless you have a burning desire to play with LeBron on the Lakers, as Davis obviously and publicly did, why would you ever want to hire Klutch? The evidence seems pretty persuasive at this point that their primary goal is not "get the best deal for my client wherever that may be" but instead "how can I use this player to help LeBron or harm his direct competitors."Bronny James better have all-NBA talent because the Klutch model doesn't seem sustainable.
Yep. I think the market will "work itself out" on this one, to be honest.Yeah, unless you have a burning desire to play with LeBron on the Lakers, as Davis obviously and publicly did, why would you ever want to hire Klutch? The evidence seems pretty persuasive at this point that their primary goal is not "get the best deal for my client wherever that may be" but instead "how can I use this player to help LeBron or harm his direct competitors."
Let me clarify because your points are correct - we don't know what Wall's future will look like and it is reasonable to expect that Tatum will improve while Porter is what he is.Data from when, though? The primary reasons it is better are:
1) Kemba is healthy and Wall is not (and we don't really know degree to which he'll ever be his old self)
2) Porter does not appear to have any material upside, while Tatum certainly does
So, data from (say) the past year pre-Wall injury may show little difference...and it still is likely the case there's a pretty big difference looking forward, or at least a chance there is a pretty big difference.
We’ll probably never get the entire scoop but I wonder how much of this was MaMo passing on $41m in a vacuum vs how much was MaMo turning down $41m due to Paul convincing him that a better offer was coming from the Lakers because they weren’t going to get a Davis deal done.The interesting new info here is that he turned down 3/41 from the Clippers before agreeing with the Spurs to begin with, very odd offseason for MaMo.
Let’s ask Tristan Thompson, Jr Smith, and Kentavious Caldwell-Pope maybe they can help answer.Yeah, unless you have a burning desire to play with LeBron on the Lakers, as Davis obviously and publicly did, why would you ever want to hire Klutch? The evidence seems pretty persuasive at this point that their primary goal is not "get the best deal for my client wherever that may be" but instead "how can I use this player to help LeBron or harm his direct competitors."
The bolded is my thought as well. Is there any malpractice standard for agents? I honestly feel awful for Mook, who was looking at the big payday of his career.We’ll probably never get the entire scoop but I wonder how much of this was MaMo passing on $41m in a vacuum vs how much was MaMo turning down $41m due to Paul convincing him that a better offer was coming from the Lakers because they weren’t going to get a Davis deal done.
Of course the big ugly stench here is that Paul didn’t have the best interest of his client(s) in mind (include Nerlens as well) instead placing LeBron ahead of the both of them. It sounds like Bron let Paul know to avoid these two signing elsewhere since they may be needed in LA. Nothing but speculation but these dots sure do seem to all connect including the players in question dropping Paul like a bad habit once they realized they were used as LeBron’s pawns. This is such a bad look.
Edit: I didn’t read through entire thread prior to posting. I see I’m not the only one to recognize this massive conflict.
Yeah if you’re already on his team and holding it hostage, it’s a good deal.Let’s ask Tristan Thompson, Jr Smith, and Kentavious Caldwell-Pope maybe they can help answer.
And Eric Bledsoe, Ben Simmons, Jordan Clarkson, John Wall, Draymond Green and Darius Garland. The Morris twins and Nerlens Noel are the outliers. The rest of Paul's clients have generally done very well for themselves. These guys care about money and playing for the best teams and Paul usually succeeds in obtaining both for his clients. You can dislike him all you want but I don't see any evidence that he's done a poor job representing his clients.Let’s ask Tristan Thompson, Jr Smith, and Kentavious Caldwell-Pope maybe they can help answer.
KCP is an interesting example. It was reported that he turned down 5 for 80. He then found a relatively barren market until the Lakers came to the rescue it was what a clear effort to curry favor with Camp Lebron. Even with the Lakers largesse, he still stands to lose alot of money based on Paul's advice. Nerlens is another cautionary tale.Let’s ask Tristan Thompson, Jr Smith, and Kentavious Caldwell-Pope maybe they can help answer.
Hence the firing, I'd imagine. Mook should sue the prick.Yeah, I think there will turn out to be more to this story. You don’t tell a guy like Mook to turn down 3/41 unless another team is telling you already have something.
Unless, of course, you’re Rich Paul and you have a massive conflict of interest.
Interesting group of players you have identified.And Eric Bledsoe, Ben Simmons, Jordan Clarkson, John Wall, Draymond Green and Darius Garland. The Morris twins and Nerlens Noel are the outliers. The rest of Paul's clients have generally done very well for themselves. These guys care about money and playing for the best teams and Paul usually succeeds in obtaining both for his clients. You can dislike him all you want but I don't see any evidence that he's done a poor job representing his clients.
The problem is that if he shows any decline, a guy like him is looking at a $3-4M/yr contract. The 2/26 (or a bit more) is quite possible, but it’s one of the better outcomes for him now, rather than being locked in.Is Morris really going to be out any money though? He only needs to sign a 2/26 deal next offseason which seems likley especially if he is putting up some empty numbers on a terrible Knick team
I don't use the trade machine, but by my math the Celtics would have to send out around 21.6M to match up with Beal.Trade Machine says it works without Semi and TL. It may not be 100% though...
Yeah, quite a few players in the NBA end up with MLEs or fairly low contracts. Somebody like Morris could end up making $5 million/year and have to play for 5 years to make up the money he could have had for 2. On the other hand, maybe he'll get lucky and put up the numbers and some greater fool will give him a big payday.The problem is that if he shows any decline, a guy like him is looking at a $3-4M/yr contract. The 2/26 (or a bit more) is quite possible, but it’s one of the better outcomes for him now, rather than being locked in.
I’d agree more with that take if Nerlens Noel hadn’t also just fired Rich “Conflict of Interest” Paul for similar reasons.Yeah, quite a few players in the NBA end up with MLEs or fairly low contracts. Somebody like Morris could end up making $5 million/year and have to play for 5 years to make up the money he could have had for 2. On the other hand, maybe he'll get lucky and put up the numbers and some greater fool will give him a big payday.
Remember, MaMo has a fairly high opinion of his abilities (as I'm sure >90% of NBA players do). I wouldn't put this all on Klutch (absent other evidence). Heck if Terry Rozier is getting the money he got, it wouldn't surprise me if MaMo was thinking he should be getting similar or more than that.
They could theoretically extend Brown if all parties were agreeable.I don't use the trade machine, but by my math the Celtics would have to send out around 21.6M to match up with Beal.
Only way they can get there right now without Hayward or Tatum involved is all four of Smart/Brown/Semi/R. Williams
That's not legal.They could theoretically extend Brown if all parties were agreeable.
People keep making these jokes IT4 might go full bagel jockeyApologies if this was posted elsewhere...
https://twitter.com/MickstapeShow/status/1149810965694812161
Mickstape @MickstapeShow
Jayson Tatum DESTROYS Isaiah Thomas at an open gym (via @justlobs)
I don't think IT4 shares the same insecurities as bagel boss...People keep making these jokes IT4 might go full bagel jockey
Your extensive/impressive cap knowledge aside (and thank you for sharing with us), I think its safe to say that the Celtics front-office, whatever one thinks of them, has a decent handle on what they can and cannot do to trade for a Beal or whatever other star player MBPC has set its sights on for a given day.That's not legal.
His salary is locked in for this year.
Any extension would kick in next season.
He's been watching how Marcus Smart deals with kids.Apologies if this was posted elsewhere...
https://twitter.com/MickstapeShow/status/1149810965694812161
Mickstape @MickstapeShow
Jayson Tatum DESTROYS Isaiah Thomas at an open gym (via @justlobs)
Harkless is cheaper and a better fit for the Clippers than MaMo. Plus they obtained a protected 2023 1st round pick.The reporting is that they could still fit Kawhi/George with Morris, and they moved on to adding Harkless once Morris turned them down, so it doesn’t really seem like it was a plan B to the Kawhi addition.
https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2019/07/marcus-morris-turned-down-41-million-from-clippers-before-spurs-knicks-mess-firing-agent-rich-paul-report.html(Note that article was from before the NYDN confirmed 3 years).
Yeah, Harkless is an ideal fit with that roster and has a coach who knows how to maximize production out of his role players. I’m going to be up late watching a lot of late night NBA this winter.Harkless is cheaper and a better fit for the Clippers than MaMo. Plus they obtained a protected 2023 1st round pick.
Everything is going the paper Clips way these days, Jerry West can do no wrong.