Offseason Thread - Betty when you call me, you can call me Al

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DJnVa

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Brogdon is probably worth around $15 million/year. Probably have to go to $17-$19 per year to get him away from the Bucks. But, if they sign Middleton to the max and want to bring back either/or of Mirotic and Lopez are they going to want to spend that much to match?
Bleacher Report was saying that Brogdon was going to get a 4 year/$80M offer from the Bulls. Woj also said that his thoughts were that if the Bucks had to match, they were going to have to match something upwards of $18M/year.
 

Cellar-Door

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Who's plan B at FA C if we are unable to sign Vooch? (or trade for Capela)
Lot of options out there, some solid vets, some young guys who haven't gotten it yet.

Pricier options:
Boogie
Valanciunas
Willie Cauley Stein on an offer sheet (or if SAC doesn't make the QO)
Thomas Bryant Offer Sheet
Julius Randle (more of a 4, but hey)
Bobby Portis Offer Sheet


Middle expense:
Noel if he opts out
Dedmon
Richaun Holmes

Fliers:
Marquesse Chriss
Dragan Bender
 

bowiac

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Didn't we just draft 2 undersized points? Brad going to go all smurf ball on us.
Jones has longish arms (6'5" - comparable to like, Coby White), so his effective size is bigger than his height.

He's not someone whose game I'm super familiar with, so I concede I'm mostly just going off the various metrics, but he grades well both offensively and defensively. He hasn't been a great three point shooter in his career (.333), but is an elite free throw guy (~85% the last two season), so presumably has some more upside there.

Given his effectiveness, age, and likely cost, he's someone who makes a lot of sense to me for the Celtics.
 

67YAZ

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Bleacher Report was saying that Brogdon was going to get a 4 year/$80M offer from the Bulls. Woj also said that his thoughts were that if the Bucks had to match, they were going to have to match something upwards of $18M/year.
Since they nabbed Coby White last night, I doubt they're still in the Brogdon market. If the 3 top PGs had gone off the board and the Bulls were looking at Culver or Hunter at #7, then Brogdon made a ton of sense. But with Paxson & Forman running things...you just never, ever know.
 

lovegtm

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Didn't we just draft 2 undersized points? Brad going to go all smurf ball on us.
Those 2 guys are going to be in the back of the bench or G-League Hunger Games. You're happy if one makes it through alive, but you don't plan on it.
 

Cellar-Door

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Jones has longish arms (6'5" - comparable to like, Coby White), so his effective size is bigger than his height.

He's not someone whose game I'm super familiar with, so I concede I'm mostly just going off the various metrics, but he grades well both offensively and defensively. He hasn't been a great three point shooter in his career (.333), but is an elite free throw guy (~85% the last two season), so presumably has some more upside there.

Given his effectiveness, age, and likely cost, he's someone who makes a lot of sense to me for the Celtics.
Or Carsen Edwards
 

Ale Xander

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Lot of options out there, some solid vets, some young guys who haven't gotten it yet.

Pricier options:
Boogie
Valanciunas
Willie Cauley Stein on an offer sheet (or if SAC doesn't make the QO)
Thomas Bryant Offer Sheet
Julius Randle (more of a 4, but hey)
Bobby Portis Offer Sheet


Middle expense:
Noel if he opts out
Dedmon
Richaun Holmes

Fliers:
Marquesse Chriss
Dragan Bender
Thanks. Any chance we can afford both Boogie and Randle (obviously can't keep Rozier then)? That would be a fun 8 man rotation to watch offensively (well 6.5 on 0 and TL/Smart on D) if Carsen can step up into the backup PG role.

Smart
3 of 4 of Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Randle
Boogie
Bench: #4, Carsen, TL
 

Ale Xander

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Tyus Jones is another potential target at PG. He's on the smaller side, but has graded extremely strong defensively despite those limitations. He's 22, so is someone I'd be okay investing in for the new re-rebuild timeline.
He's surprisingly good with Ast/minute, better than Harden, Lillard, Conley and other top PG's/ball-dominants

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/stats?season=2018&category=ASSISTS&group=1&sort=5&time=0&pos=0&team=0&qual=1&sortOrder=0&opp=0&page=1
Plus, Pagliuca will be happy keeping stable the Duke quota.
 

cheech13

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Thanks. Any chance we can afford both Boogie and Randle (obviously can't keep Rozier then)? That would be a fun 8 man rotation to watch offensively (well 6.5 on 0 and TL/Smart on D) if Carsen can step up into the backup PG role.

Smart
3 of 4 of Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Randle
Boogie
Bench: #4, Carsen, TL
Boogie's contract is kind of a wild card. I've heard everything from taxpayer MLE up to $20MM for his next deal. I still think he ends up back on the Warriors or at the full MLE for a playoff team that needs additional scoring. So theoretically you could sign Randle for say $12-17MM and then Boogie for $10MM, but I don't know why you'd want to. You can't play them together and neither would be very happy with a bench role. It's a misuse of resources. You'd be better picking one and spending the rest on a PG, be it Rozier or Collison or someone of that caliber.
 

Ale Xander

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Boogie's contract is kind of a wild card. I've heard everything from taxpayer MLE up to $20MM for his next deal. I still think he ends up back on the Warriors or at the full MLE for a playoff team that needs additional scoring. So theoretically you could sign Randle for say $12-17MM and then Boogie for $10MM, but I don't know why you'd want to. You can't play them together and neither would be very happy with a bench role. It's a misuse of resources. You'd be better picking one and spending the rest on a PG, be it Rozier or Collison or someone of that caliber.
Why can't you play them together? Especially in this offense that allows for big guys on the perimeter. Both are good passers and shooters for their size and both capable rebounders.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Why can't you play them together? Especially in this offense that allows for big guys on the perimeter. Both are good passers and shooters for their size and both capable rebounders.
They would be ruthlessly targeted by opposing teams offenses every time down the floor. Other teams borderline abused Cousins during the playoffs by getting him on switches. Nip's server would implode from the gamethread freakouts...
 

cheech13

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Why can't you play them together? Especially in this offense that allows for big guys on the perimeter. Both are good passers and shooters for their size and both capable rebounders.
Both are terrible defenders and while Demarcus can hit a three, neither really stretches the floor. It would be a disaster on defense and a spacing nightmare on offense. Plus the ball tends to stick to both guys; that's not a good fit for a team that wants to keep the ball moving. I'd take a flyer on one of those guys, but not both. Too risky and not enough upside.
 

Cellar-Door

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Randle is probably getting $18M+ would be my guess, and Boogie probably goes one of two ways, either biggest contract- $15M+ probably, or he takes a full MLE with one of the top contenders
 

Cellar-Door

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Yeah if Randle wants $18mil, that's a misuse of resources.
I'd pay him that. He wouldn't be my first choice, but $18M would be a good price, he's 24 and very good, he can score, he doesn't turn it over much even with high usage, good rebounder, excellent passer for a big. His defense is rough, but you can hide it.
 

the moops

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Someone mentioned it in a different thread, but I think Boogie takes the Jabari Parker 1 year deal with a 2nd year team option for a decent payday.
 

Cellar-Door

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Someone mentioned it in a different thread, but I think Boogie takes the Jabari Parker 1 year deal with a 2nd year team option for a decent payday.
Maybe something like the Randle deal 9M or so with a 9M option, go out play well, decline the option and make at least twice that per year on a longer deal
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I kinda like the super small ball, super switchable idea of Brogdon (6'5"), Smart (6'4"), Brown (6'7"), Tatum (6'8"), Hayward (6'8"). Hey, if GS can play Green at center why the fuck can't we play Hayward there :)
Your crazy if you're playing Hayward at center with that lineup!!!





(everyone knows Smart would play center . . . )
 

cheech13

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Someone mentioned it in a different thread, but I think Boogie takes the Jabari Parker 1 year deal with a 2nd year team option for a decent payday.
I still don't see it. There's money out there, but I can't find a team with more than $15MM that would spend it on Boogie. These teams watched the Finals. He was borderline unplayable. Yes, he was coming off an injury, but that's part of the problem. It's back to back years he's had a serious injury derail his season and he's not known for having a good body or a great work ethic. Add to that he's a bad defender, he's slow, and he's a bit of a malcontent. Somebody will sign him because he's a name and he has all those All-Star appearances, but I can't see anyone going much past the MLE.
 
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Big John

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I think boogie will be lucky to get 10 million. The game has passed him by. He's too slow laterally. Look at how the draft went.
 

DJnVa

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Is that a surprise? Only one of those guys is not under contract with the team
Is what a surprise? The Rozier part? There's a second tweet that says Rozier is a hard worker and likely working out elsewhere. I just liked hearing that the other 3 were working out a lot. Wasn't taking shot at Rozier, I just didn't want to edit tweet.
 

the moops

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Is what a surprise? The Rozier part? There's a second tweet that says Rozier is a hard worker and likely working out elsewhere. I just liked hearing that the other 3 were working out a lot. Wasn't taking shot at Rozier, I just didn't want to edit tweet.
Gotcha. Did seem more like a shot at Rozier with the Ainge saying he hadn't seen him
 

Devizier

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One thing about Milwaukee is they need plenty of contracts in order to make mid season acquisitions like they did with Mirotic this year. Cannot see Brogdon leaving in any event.
 

Cellar-Door

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One thing about Milwaukee is they need plenty of contracts in order to make mid season acquisitions like they did with Mirotic this year. Cannot see Brogdon leaving in any event.
I think it depends on the $, they seem to be planning to bring Lopez back at about 14, and give Middleton something close to a max deal, I really wonder if they're willing to get up that far into the tax for that many years, the repeater would be a killer for them, especially in that market, I think they're hoping it comes in under 20M a year
 

mcpickl

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If they max Middleton and Brogdon and sign Horford, they are deep in tax territory. Lopez will cost the MLE, Horford triple that. Giannis (27.5), Middleton (34.8), Brogdon (29 - he won't sign for this but that would be his max that you mentioned), Horford (25 - just a guess), Bledsoe (16.9) is 133 million in salary for their theoretical starting 5 in this scenario
So, you think Milwaukee won't spend all of their cap space? When Giannis has a contract decision coming up soon?

I believe they will. Whether it's on Horford, or Lopez and Mirotic, or Lopez and somebody else, I think they spend to the cap before signing Brogdon and Middleton.
 

cheech13

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So, you think Milwaukee won't spend all of their cap space? When Giannis has a contract decision coming up soon?

I believe they will. Whether it's on Horford, or Lopez and Mirotic, or Lopez and somebody else, I think they spend to the cap before signing Brogdon and Middleton.
They've been actively trying to create cap space to retain Brook Lopez. I guess it depends on what he gets, but looking over their cap it doesn't look like they'd have any real money left over after signing him and retaining the cap holds for Middleton and Brogdon. They're only sitting at about $14 million in cap space, maybe less with incomplete roster charges. Lopez has to be looking at a contract starting at $10MM next year, right?
 

mcpickl

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They've been actively trying to create cap space to retain Brook Lopez. I guess it depends on what he gets, but looking over their cap it doesn't look like they'd have any real money left over after signing him and retaining the cap holds for Middleton and Brogdon. They're only sitting at about $14 million in cap space. Lopez has to be looking at a contract starting at $10MM next year, right?
I have them around 18Mish now assuming they waive George Hill and take the 1M hit, and renounce everyone but Middleton, Brogdon amd Lopez.

But, I also think they'll waive and stretch Leuer, which would put them up near 25M in space.

They could also move Ilyasova at 1 year/7M if they needed/wanted to.
 

Cellar-Door

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I have them around 18Mish now assuming they waive George Hill and take the 1M hit, and renounce everyone but Middleton, Brogdon amd Lopez.

But, I also think they'll waive and stretch Leuer, which would put them up near 25M in space.

They could also move Ilyasova at 1 year/7M if they needed/wanted to.
I don't think they stretch Leuer or dump Ilyasova, they probably prefer Ilyasova to anyone else in the 7-9M range out there, and keeping him and Leuer means having a smaller tax bill next year, it's the repeater that kills ya
 

mcpickl

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I don't think they stretch Leuer or dump Ilyasova, they probably prefer Ilyasova to anyone else in the 7-9M range out there, and keeping him and Leuer means having a smaller tax bill next year, it's the repeater that kills ya
I think they keep Ilyasova, just threw that out as a guy they could easily move if necessary, but think they'll waive and stretch Leuer. They should anyway. As a contender, you better use all the resources you have. Windows can close fast.

After wasting all of our breath this season saying the Celtics would try and duck the tax because they'll be repeaters when Kyrie signs his new deal, I'm going to stop worrying about the repeater tax years down the road.
 

chilidawg

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I have them around 18Mish now assuming they waive George Hill and take the 1M hit, and renounce everyone but Middleton, Brogdon amd Lopez.

But, I also think they'll waive and stretch Leuer, which would put them up near 25M in space.

They could also move Ilyasova at 1 year/7M if they needed/wanted to.
If they waive Hill, the Celtics should look seriously at him. I like Terry more than most, but Hill would be a good upgrade as a 3rd guard.
 

HomeRunBaker

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If they waive Hill, the Celtics should look seriously at him. I like Terry more than most, but Hill would be a good upgrade as a 3rd guard.
I can't imagine Hill signing for a non-contender either at his age or with his skillset. He's your prototypical veteran 2nd unit vet min ring chaser at this stage of his career. He'd be an ideal fit for the Lakers if he's available.
 

Cellar-Door

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He's not as good as Theis. Poirier doesn't shoot from outside.
It was an acquisition style comparison rather than player, they're very different players. Theis is a 6'8" stretch big who defends pretty well, Poirier is a 7 foot more traditional big he's more the Baynes type who is there to rebound and defend and maybe develop a 3pt shot.

If I were comparing I would say Poirier is probably the better player, he was the best rebounder in Euroleague last year and one of the better rim protectors. He shot a decent 73% from the line so there is some potential to stretch him out as well. Poirier put up much better stats in EuroLeague than Theis as well.

Centers don't have to shoot from the outside if everyone else does, look at Baynes, Capela, Bogut when GS was dominant, Thompson, etc. etc. There is still a role for the defending, rebounding, screen-setting hard rolling big in the league.
 
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