Offseason Thread - Betty when you call me, you can call me Al

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djbayko

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Capela seems like such an odd fit for this team. If there’s any truth to the rumors, there must be something else going on here. Maybe Danny believes Jaylen has reached his plateau and is selling stock before the league in general gives up on his potential. Maybe he sees Capela the best *available* option for preserving/storing value for use in future trades. I don’t know. It’s just weird.
 

jon abbey

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I think he is just confused, interpreting a Bill Simmons three-way tweet proposal as reality.
 

Captaincoop

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How can Capela be a bad fit for this team?

There is no team right now. We have 2-4 guys you can say with any confidence will be around in October.

What if they are planning on signing, drafting, or trading for a playmaking PG? If you had a real lead guard on this team, along with Smart and Hayward, that's several good passers who could create easy looks for a guy like Capela, while Tatum and Brown or Brown replacement X score from the wing.

We know nothing right now. Danny is in chip acquisition mode, so he's probably not worried much about fit.
 

ehaz

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Why would the Pacers trade Turner? He's under contract for three more seasons...

He'd be a great fit though if available. I wonder if the C's could sign Gasol if he doesn't re-up with Toronto.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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How can Capela be a bad fit for this team?

There is no team right now. We have 2-4 guys you can say with any confidence will be around in October.

What if they are planning on signing, drafting, or trading for a playmaking PG? If you had a real lead guard on this team, along with Smart and Hayward, that's several good passers who could create easy looks for a guy like Capela, while Tatum and Brown or Brown replacement X score from the wing.

We know nothing right now. Danny is in chip acquisition mode, so he's probably not worried much about fit.
Aside from your first question, everything you say is correct. There is no team and we have no idea what Ainge has planned.

That said, Capela isn't a great fit for this team and many others because he is more of a traditional big than the Celtics have utilized since Stevens arrived. He is, at best, a passable defender at the perimeter and does nothing to stretch the floor. His inability to shoot FTs also limits his value as teams will hack him hard when he does get the ball down low.

Lead guards and good passers are great but teams will not double, trap or blitz any of the guys you've mentioned to the same degree that Clint Capela has seen over the past few seasons in Houston. Ainge may have some magic yet to do but finding floor spacers to surround Capela with isn't going to be easy without cap room and/or trading away one of the core guys who are left. As such, absent the Celtics changing their style of play to be post-centric, Capela's best attributes will be wasted on this team.

More to the point, the guy is under contract through the '22-23 season and while its not egregious, its a lot to tie up in a player who has limited application in a lot of current NBA team's systems. In other words, if the C's get him, he likely won't be an easy to move "asset" on the follow.

I don't get the fascination with the guy overall - he is great in the right set-up but he really doesn't move the needle for most teams and is relatively expensive.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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WOJ: Indiana has traded for Phoenix’s TJ Warren, league source tells ESPN.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1141819677234085897

Follow up tweets say that Indiana is also getting the #32 pick in the deal and will absorb Warren into cap space. They are sending cash to PHX to complete the deal.
I love this trade for Indiana. They just added a legitimate wing/scorer who may evolve into a decent outside shooter. Good for Warren getting out of basketball purgatory too.
 

Cellar-Door

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I am FASCINATED by what PHX thinks they need cap space for, is it to overpay someone to come to PHX? Is it so Sarver can pocket everything above the salary floor?
 

ehaz

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I am FASCINATED by what PHX thinks they need cap space for, is it to overpay someone to come to PHX? Is it so Sarver can pocket everything above the salary floor?
They’re getting ready to sign Terry Rozier to a max.
 

cheech13

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I am FASCINATED by what PHX thinks they need cap space for, is it to overpay someone to come to PHX? Is it so Sarver can pocket everything above the salary floor?
Twitter speculation is that they are going hard after D'Angelo Russell. I can't even imagine how bad the backcourt defense will be with him and Booker.

Also, what exactly is the thinking here? TJ Warren is a good player on a reasonable contract. I'd think that Phoenix could actually get a late first round pick for him, but they had to give up a pick just to dump him?
 

bowiac

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Phoenix really trying to make clear they have sole ownership of the "worst run team in the NBA" title.
 

Cellar-Door

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Twitter speculation is that they are going hard after D'Angelo Russell. I can't even imagine how bad the backcourt defense will be with him and Booker.

Also, what exactly is the thinking here? TJ Warren is a good player on a reasonable contract. I'd think that Phoenix could actually get a late first round pick for him, but they had to give up a pick just to dump him?
He's good, but not a lot of teams looking to burn that much cap space before knowing what is happening with better FAs. Indy could because he perfectly fit into the difference between a max deal and what they had. I think most teams with both cap space to take Warren, and good enough that Warren made sense for them, were waiting for bigger fish.

Do we think the Celtics are in the Russell market?
Depending on the price, almost certainly. He was very good last year and he's insanely young, and not far removed from being a really desirable prospect who went #2 for good reason. His defense is bad, but same can be said of a lot of the top PGs
 

bigq

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I know this isn't what we were thinking would happen, but I have to admit, part of me is fascinated at all of this. Maybe it's from years of playing fantasy sports or GM modes on video games, but essentially watching Ainge have to figure this out--with some really good young talent, some potential cap room, 3 draft picks, and potentially a nice future pick from another team is really interesting.
100% agree. The off the court product is as compelling as the on court product. It is fascinating and the number of potential outcomes is seemingly infinite. Something big could happen tonight.
 

the moops

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NO is crushing this offseason
FULL TRADE DETAILS:

Hawks receive:
Solomon Hill
No. 4 and 57 pick
Future second-round pick.

Pelicans receive:
No. 8, 17 and 35 pick.
Protected 2020 first-round pick.
 

cheech13

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NO is crushing this offseason
FULL TRADE DETAILS:

Hawks receive:
Solomon Hill
No. 4 and 57 pick
Future second-round pick.

Pelicans receive:
No. 8, 17 and 35 pick.
Protected 2020 first-round pick.
David Griffin is an excellent GM who caught unnecessary flak and ridicule because of a couple of overpays to role players to keep Lebron happy in Cleveland. You don't assemble a team that wins a title and makes the Finals four consecutive years by accident. My guess is that New Orleans has a really good team by the end of Zion's rookie contract.
 

mcpickl

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I think they dumped Snell just for luxury tax purposes. While adding Horford would indeed be slick, he would push them way further into tax land.
Horford would be signed with cap space.

They wouldn't be far into tax land even if they signed Brogdon and Middleton to max deals afterwards.

They may use the space or Lopez/Mirotic instead, but the payroll will end up around the same either way.
 

the moops

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If they max Middleton and Brogdon and sign Horford, they are deep in tax territory. Lopez will cost the MLE, Horford triple that. Giannis (27.5), Middleton (34.8), Brogdon (29 - he won't sign for this but that would be his max that you mentioned), Horford (25 - just a guess), Bledsoe (16.9) is 133 million in salary for their theoretical starting 5 in this scenario
 

HomeRunBaker

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Windhorst says the Baynes trade to clear space signals that they’re going after a top PG on the market. Mentions Russell and Brogdon.
Brogdon makes a ton of sense to go after as his game is much more conductive to a Ainge/Brad player than Russell.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I like Brogdon but I'd much rather have Russell. I think of Brogdon as a shorter Otto Porter who handles the ball better. Great player to have but not someone to build around.
 

boca

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Brogdon is a super player but he's more of a shooting guard than a point guard.
 

DJnVa

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Woj says that if Vucevic doesn't stay in Orlando Boston is a potential landing place.

Can we afford him (or Capela) AND a PG?
 

Cellar-Door

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Woj says that if Vucevic doesn't stay in Orlando Boston is a potential landing place.

Can we afford him (or Capela) AND a PG?
If by a PG you mean a free agent looking to make more than say $5-7M a season...... no.
However... if they are signing Vucevic it probably means they match or sign Rozier.
 

the moops

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I kinda like the super small ball, super switchable idea of Brogdon (6'5"), Smart (6'4"), Brown (6'7"), Tatum (6'8"), Hayward (6'8"). Hey, if GS can play Green at center why the fuck can't we play Hayward there :)
 

Van Everyman

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Brogdon is a super player but he's more of a shooting guard than a point guard.
To the extent that this is true, how much might the Celtics be leaning on Hayward to run the point? Assuming he continues to improve health-wise, I would think the need for a game manager-style PG is reduced in that scenario.
 

lovegtm

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To the extent that this is true, how much might the Celtics be leaning on Hayward to run the point? Assuming he continues to improve health-wise, I would think the need for a game manager-style PG is reduced in that scenario.
He'll get really heavy usage if healthy. His last year in Utah, George Hill was playing a very Brogdon-esque role at PG.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I don't think Stevens' system needs a traditional point---having Hayward, Smart, and another player who is a creator is sufficient. Also, getting a big who can pass in the draft is consistent with that structure.
 

Mooch

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I kinda like the super small ball, super switchable idea of Brogdon (6'5"), Smart (6'4"), Brown (6'7"), Tatum (6'8"), Hayward (6'8"). Hey, if GS can play Green at center why the fuck can't we play Hayward there :)
Because we'd face Giannis and/or Embiid in the playoffs. I'd love it if the C's could land Brogdon and Vucevic though.
Brogdon just had a 50-40-90 season. That is the exact type of player the Celtics need as they don't have enough good shooters.
Agreed. Brogdon would be a terrific fit on this Celtics team. If Danny could somehow replace Al/Kyrie with Vucevic/Brogdon, this would be a solid offseason. Not sure they could fit under the cap though.
 

RedOctober3829

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Because we'd face Giannis and/or Embiid in the playoffs. I'd love it if the C's could land Brogdon and Vucevic though.


Agreed. Brogdon would be a terrific fit on this Celtics team. If Danny could somehow replace Al/Kyrie with Vucevic/Brogdon, this would be a solid offseason. Not sure they could fit under the cap though.
They couldn't do both Vuc and Brogdon, but they could sign Brogdon and trade for Capela.
 

lovegtm

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Because we'd face Giannis and/or Embiid in the playoffs. I'd love it if the C's could land Brogdon and Vucevic though.


Agreed. Brogdon would be a terrific fit on this Celtics team. If Danny could somehow replace Al/Kyrie with Vucevic/Brogdon, this would be a solid offseason. Not sure they could fit under the cap though.
We've seen Semi do a credible job on Giannis, and Baynes bang with Embiid. The team's feeling is probably that if they're in a position where they're (unexpectedly quickly) at the level where they're up against Milwaukee and Philly in the East, they can pick up someone to fill that role on the cheap.
 

lovegtm

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They couldn't do both Vuc and Brogdon, but they could sign Brogdon and trade for Capela.
I don't think Capela is the second coming or anything, but I like him better than Vuc for defense, age, and contract. At this point I have no clue what will happen though.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Brogdon just had a 50-40-90 season. That is the exact type of player the Celtics need as they don't have enough good shooters.
As would everyone else. As a RFA you'd need to make an overpay offer of maybe 4/$80m for the Bucks not to match. You'd probably not want to do more than 4/$70m but then the Bucks would likely match. If we are going to be in retooling mode then playoff matchups aren't really going to matter a ton. I'd be shocked if Vucevic was a guy Ainge would even pay for much less overpay in FA.
 
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bowiac

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Tyus Jones is another potential target at PG. He's on the smaller side, but has graded extremely strong defensively despite those limitations. He's 22, so is someone I'd be okay investing in for the new re-rebuild timeline.
 

RedOctober3829

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As would everyone else. As a RFA you'd need to make an overpay offer of maybe 4/$80m for the Bucks not to match. You'd probably not want to do more than 4/$70m but then the Bucks would likely match.
Brogdon is probably worth around $15 million/year. Probably have to go to $17-$19 per year to get him away from the Bucks. But, if they sign Middleton to the max and want to bring back either/or of Mirotic and Lopez are they going to want to spend that much to match?
 

lovegtm

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Tyus Jones is another potential target at PG. He's on the smaller side, but has graded extremely strong defensively despite those limitations. He's 22, so is someone I'd be okay investing in for the new re-rebuild timeline.
Yeah as a general concept, PG is probably the easiest position to find reasonable guys on the cheap IF you have shot creators on the wing. This is the part of the roster I'm least worried about.
 

Jimbodandy

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Brogdon is probably worth around $15 million/year. Probably have to go to $17-$19 per year to get him away from the Bucks. But, if they sign Middleton to the max and want to bring back either/or of Mirotic and Lopez are they going to want to spend that much to match?
If DA is even contemplating crazy money for Rozier, then slightly crazier money for Brogdon sounds good to me.
 

bowiac

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Brogdon is probably worth around $15 million/year. Probably have to go to $17-$19 per year to get him away from the Bucks. But, if they sign Middleton to the max and want to bring back either/or of Mirotic and Lopez are they going to want to spend that much to match?
My sense is that the Bucks have a window here right now, and will be willing to spend to bring everyone back (apart from possibly Mirotic). They were the best team in the regular season last year, and Toronto is likely about to lose Kawhi, the Warriors are a shell, etc... If they bring everyone back, they're the title favorites IMO.
 

the moops

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My sense is that the Bucks have a window here right now, and will be willing to spend to bring everyone back (apart from possibly Mirotic). They were the best team in the regular season last year, and Toronto is likely about to lose Kawhi, the Warriors are a shell, etc... If they bring everyone back, they're the title favorites IMO.
I think if they bring everyone back minus Brogdon they are still favorites
 
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