Offseason Thread - Betty when you call me, you can call me Al
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Maybe, but his age isn't a great fit, and he'll have a lot of interest out there. Julius Randle makes a lot more sense if the target is going to be a big.
I am not sure he will have much interest though. Not that I am in favor of making a move for him. I struggle to see a team who will throw good money at him
Presumably the Clippers interest would be tied to a Kawhi signing, and if Al is expecting something like 4/120, the Clips will definitely need to lose Gallinari’s salary in order to fill in around Leonard & Horford.
Boston’s kids can probably teach Vuvecic what it takes to win in the postseason.
Clippers have a ton of space, if they sign Kawhi, they'll only need to shed 6-10M depending on exactly how much they give Al, so Harrell's 6M might be enough on it's own, otherwise Shamet makes about 2, or Robinson who makes about 4 would need to be added.
Is this thread for non-Celtics stuff too? (if not, maybe break it out)
https://twitter.com/ChronBrianSmith/status/1141182990141272065
Houston is gonna go after Jimmy Butler.
https://twitter.com/ChronBrianSmith/status/1141182990141272065
Houston is gonna go after Jimmy Butler.
I will say this - if this Horford story is correct and he is gone, I fully expect the Celtics to be more closely linked with return of Thomas.
As HRB and others have noted, he may well be physically unable to even provide even league-average offense let alone negligible defense. However if he is still capable of generating some offense, he gives Ainge a low cost option - assuming he is still pining to play in Boston - to sop up some minutes and also provide some fan service as the Celtics retool again.
I know there are quite a few folks who are against his return and he may well be cooked. However he checks a lot of boxes for a team looking for an inexpensive (no Brinks truck here), low commitment way to get some potential scoring.
As HRB and others have noted, he may well be physically unable to even provide even league-average offense let alone negligible defense. However if he is still capable of generating some offense, he gives Ainge a low cost option - assuming he is still pining to play in Boston - to sop up some minutes and also provide some fan service as the Celtics retool again.
I know there are quite a few folks who are against his return and he may well be cooked. However he checks a lot of boxes for a team looking for an inexpensive (no Brinks truck here), low commitment way to get some potential scoring.
I don't have the numbers in front of me but Isaiah may have been the worst OFFENSIVE player in the league over the last two seasons as well as the worst defensively. I get the sentiment but the poor guy hasn't been close to a competent NBA player in either of the last two years.
I understand that - the data supports your view. Just don't be surprised if Thomas and the Celtics are linked given the circumstances. He may well be done but then again, the tiny thorn in your side could come back too given the cost and the risk/reward.
Rozier is simply not a good enough passer to take the reins long-term if we are losing Horford. The guy can barely execute the most basic of pick and pops because he lacks vision and is terrible at creating good angles. With Brown and Tatum still developing their passing, that is a recipe for trouble, and I don't think there should be any interest in locking up potential cap space to bring him back for a long-term deal.
Interesting choice for someone the writers are saying is leaving because he wants another shot at a ring.
Additionally, the reports on Horford made it sounds like he's close with 1 team, not that he's shopping around to a number of them.
One thing I don’t like about the NBA offseason is that I do t even know what is possible.
Houston wants off Paul, maybe would like Horford. We have no need for Paul at his age and number. But can we help Houston by sign and trading Horford to them without taking back CP3? Can we get Capela Gordon? I read something about them doing this but why would Houston even do that?
Is Brooklyn out on Russell? Is he possible for the Cs?
Is there a good source that list what is possible or do I have to wait for Woj bombs (Woj does not seem to have a source at the Celtics).
Houston wants off Paul, maybe would like Horford. We have no need for Paul at his age and number. But can we help Houston by sign and trading Horford to them without taking back CP3? Can we get Capela Gordon? I read something about them doing this but why would Houston even do that?
Is Brooklyn out on Russell? Is he possible for the Cs?
Is there a good source that list what is possible or do I have to wait for Woj bombs (Woj does not seem to have a source at the Celtics).
I think @stevebhoop is a good follow at this point. He's plugged in with Celtics.
I mean, if you want to stealth tank, you could do a lot worse...
In all seriousness though, the Celtics just went through internal drama with the young guys this past year giving minutes to an injured player who had/has a reasonable expectation of being good again. Why would you give them to someone who doesn't?
The issue for me is that most of the variance with Paul is bad. With Hayward being a lot younger, there are a lot of scenarios in which things turn out better. The shorter contract and lower money in Hayward's case also caps the downside a LOT more, which is critical in high-variance scenario planning.
Given all that, Hayward is a pretty easy choice for me. It's so easy to say "oh, it's just one extra year at $44M (!!)", but we've seen over and over again how these things end up mattering. Not caring about that stuff is how you get Pelinka'd.
Finally, now that Horford looks like he's gone (which, to be fair, you didn't know yesterday, but that actually makes my variance/unpredictability point), the cap number absolutely matters. This is actually a great illustration of how unknown unknowns come back and bite you if you take on someone like Paul who has massive downside variance and a worse contract in that downside scenario.
This is where I am. I'm willing to give him a pass for last year's dismal defense and questionable shot selection as contract year misbehavior. And his ball handling box is fully checked as competent. But his vision and playmaking for others is pathologically bad. He gets assists because he touches the ball, but the next easy basket that he gets for someone else will be the first. Not ideal for a team with a gaggle of young guys.
Are we looking at the craziest, wildest offseason in NBA history? It sure feels that way. So many major pieces could be on the move.
Exactly. My point is that unpredictable stuff happens all the time, and when you’re locked into old, expensive CP3, almost all the unpredictable stuff is bad, as we saw here with Horford and the cap situation.
Apologies for hammering this point, but I think it’s very relevant to evaluating the Lakers’ current situation as well.
Please just NO NO NO on Chris Paul. Don't want him. Don't want to pay him. Don't want to give him a big contract. Want no part of Chris Paul. As talented as he is.
You don’t have to worry. Nobody is taking on that monstrosity of a contract.
You won't be giving him a big contract. He already has the big contract. And for the next three years, he's going to be wildly overpaid, to a degree you rarely see in the NBA. He's cooked, man. The history of point guards and their performance after they hit the wall isn't good. Paul has hit the wall.
This makes the decision by Houston to give Paul a max contract last offseason even dumber than it looked at the time.
Part of it must have been a wink wink nudge nudge deal when he picked up the option to facilitate the trade there in the first place, turning down the max from the Clippers he could have otherwise gotten: put off the mega payday for a year and we’ll make it up for you next off season. No way he does that in the first place without assurances from Morey that he’ll be take care of, come hell or high water.
This makes sense.
With Al leaving, it’s time to blow it up. Don’t commit any money to anyone beyond 2020-21 (which means no Rozier). See how far up you can move in Thursday’s draft by stapling Jaylen to #14 (and perhaps the later picks). Bring in a few veterans on short deals, watch Tatum develop, see if GH gets his groove back, find out if Time Lord is a real NBA player, and wait for a better day, when you’ll hopefully have enough cap space to bring in two free agents (including one max guy) to play with Tatum, Smart, this year’s lottery pick, and the Memphis pick.
Bringing IT’s swan song to town would be a nice storyline for the fans while the near-term pain plays out.
Houston was definitely in GFIN mode but it's just such a terrible contract. The only other contract that looks worse right now is John Wall.
There was an interview recently with Wyc where he discussed sitting in on the front office meetings:
Danny does have to make a move before Jaylen's next contract hits the books though. Whether trading him this year or signing a FA next offseason.
These guys have been game planning for all eventualities. I think those who have said they'll either take on bad contracts for assets or get guys on a short-term deal are closest to right unless Ainge feels the "right guy" is out there to mortgage their cap space long-term or spend assets to acquire. I really like Vucevic but the idea of tying up space for 4 years probably doesn't make sense if you aren't getting a 'star' player.
Danny does have to make a move before Jaylen's next contract hits the books though. Whether trading him this year or signing a FA next offseason.
If we're blowing things up, why would we ever want to trade one of our best young players, especially to move up in a weak draft? I'd keep all 3 picks, hope one out of 3 of them turns into a real player, and pray Memphis continues to be a lottery team. It's not a high probability of success, but I think it's their highest probability of success.
Isn’t the real question How many first round picks will the Knicks trade for him?
I agree with this. I have no interest in Rozier limiting anything they can do, so they should let him walk. I'd like to keep Brown but if an asset with a higher ceiling is available for him and the 14, definitely do that.
The future depends on Tatum, GH's recovery, figuring out how the rest of the young players develop, and then whatever Danny can do to get a star on top of that. As we've seen in the last few weeks things can change in the NBA very quickly so having flexibility isn't the worst thing, even if the assets they have have gotten less valuable than they may have been. But you can't change the past and things could be worse (say, if they had gone with Fultz over Tatum...).
I don't want IT back. For one thing, he can't play anymore, and I don't have the kind of confidence in his ever getting it back that I do in Hayward given the type of injury, and his game. And that's going ot be a problem, IT has never struck me as a guy who would be happy sitting on the bench, taking a small vet role. If you play him... well that's even worse, the whole point with a young team is development and building good habits. You're not doing that with IT, he can't defend even when he tries, so it breaks your system, and on offense he's a gunner not a distributor.
Basically IT is someone we would never ever consider signing if he hadn't played here a few years. Bringing guys in who actively hurt your team because of nostalgia is a terrible idea.
Shams Charania @ShamsCharania 56s56 seconds ago
Utah sending a package of players including forwards Jae Crowder and Kyle Korver, along with draft picks, to Memphis, league sources said.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account @wojespn 24s25 seconds ago
Memphis has traded guard Mike Conley to the Utah Jazz for Grayson Allen, Kyle Korver and Jae Crowder, the 23rd pick in Thursday's Draft and a future first-round pick, league sources tell ESPN.
Utah sending a package of players including forwards Jae Crowder and Kyle Korver, along with draft picks, to Memphis, league sources said.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account @wojespn 24s25 seconds ago
Memphis has traded guard Mike Conley to the Utah Jazz for Grayson Allen, Kyle Korver and Jae Crowder, the 23rd pick in Thursday's Draft and a future first-round pick, league sources tell ESPN.
depending on protections, that's a really nice deal for Utah. A late 1st, a future pick and chum for a really good PG
Shams: Utah is sending Grayson Allen, Kyle Korver, Jae Crowder and draft compensation to Memphis for Mike Conley Jr., league sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium.
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1141373086786347015
Huge move for Utah. Love it.
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1141373086786347015
Huge move for Utah. Love it.
Per @HerringtonNBA:
Per league source, the 2020 pick the Grizzlies are getting in Conley trade has the following protections:
2020 1-7, 15-30 (conveys 8-14)
2021 - same as above
2022 - 1-6
2023 1-3
2024 - 1
2025 - converts to two seconds
Per league source, the 2020 pick the Grizzlies are getting in Conley trade has the following protections:
2020 1-7, 15-30 (conveys 8-14)
2021 - same as above
2022 - 1-6
2023 1-3
2024 - 1
2025 - converts to two seconds
From ESPN:
The Jazz will send a protected 2020 first-round pick to the Grizzlies, league sources tell ESPN. That pick will convey as a late-lottery pick in 2020 or 2021, or become a lightly-protected pick from 2022-24. The deal will be complete on July 6.
Memphis has until 7/3 to waive Avery Bradley ($2mm guar, $12.9mm if not waived) and 7/10 to waive Kyle Korver ($3.44mm guar, $7.55mm if not waived).
https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1141374801308725248
Bobby Marks who I trust on this stuff, says that they won't need to, and others also say that they both won't need to and don't plan to.
One would assume they waive both. Korver will have a lot of suitors and can probably get the taxpayer's MLE.
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