Offseason Thread - Betty when you call me, you can call me Al

cheech13

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Larry Nance may have only started 30 games, but he played 27MPG so he's a major part of their rotation. He's also only 26 and easily fits into the timeline of their other young players like Garland, Sexton and Porter. Given that he's only a very reasonable deal I think they'd have to be blown away with young players or picks to even consider trading him.
 

lovegtm

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Nance has one half-decent year under his belt at age 26. I suppose if you think that there's untapped upside there and really don't like Langford.

Or if you are partial to tall guys.
Yeah I didn’t want to pile on, but trading just-drafted #14 picks for mediocre role players on meh contracts is Vlade/Dell Demps territory.
 

Jimbodandy

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Yeah I didn’t want to pile on, but trading just-drafted #14 picks for mediocre role players on meh contracts is Vlade/Dell Demps territory.
There is value in getting Yabu off the books and clearing roster space, and
Nance wouldn't be unflippable.

I'm still not interested, but frankly I'm unsure about Langford myself.
 

lovegtm

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There is value in getting Yabu off the books and clearing roster space, and
Nance wouldn't be unflippable.

I'm still not interested, but frankly I'm unsure about Langford myself.
Right, but being unsure about a guy who has never seen the court and instantly turning him into a mediocre roleplayer is awful. Like, you might as well be selling your mid-1sts for cash at that point.

I’d much rather deal Semi if I were trying to do a 2-for-1 involving Yabu.
 

benhogan

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wow. This is funny...

I've got "Nance is a mediocre role player on a meh contract." a Del Demps/Vlade overpay (lovegtm)

vs.

"an unrealistic trade package for Nance. I don't think that even gets you a conversation with Cleveland." (cheech13)


There is no pleasing SoSH these days :)
 

nighthob

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He’s a roleplayer, but Cleveland probably does overprice him. As a player he just might not be a realistic target.
 

cheech13

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He’s a roleplayer, but Cleveland probably does overprice him. As a player he just might not be a realistic target.
This. A trade has to make sense for both teams and I'm not sure this one benefits Cleveland or Boston. He's a guy Cleveland values highly and he doesn't make a ton of sense on Boston's roster. It's a weird trade idea.
 

lovegtm

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This. A trade has to make sense for both teams and I'm not sure this one benefits Cleveland or Boston. He's a guy Cleveland values highly and he doesn't make a ton of sense on Boston's roster. It's a weird trade idea.
Yup, I don’t think there’s any contradiction here at all.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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cheech13

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The added room I believe comes from them trying to re-work Reggie Bullock's deal.
Correct. The assumption is that Reggie Bullock failed his physical and may be unavailable for a portion of this season. Bullock would then be signed with the room exception and the additional $14.8MM in cap room would then go to Marcus Morris.

Usually when these deals get blown up it's to the benefit of both parties (see Alec Burks with the Thunder), but not in this case. San Antonio agreed to a sign-and-trade for DeMarre Carroll and gave up Davis Bertans in the process to open up the mid-level for Morris. Going back on that agreement now is going to reflect very poorly on Morris, Klutch and the Knicks.
 

Jimbodandy

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Right, but being unsure about a guy who has never seen the court and instantly turning him into a mediocre roleplayer is awful. Like, you might as well be selling your mid-1sts for cash at that point.

I’d much rather deal Semi if I were trying to do a 2-for-1 involving Yabu.
I agree completely. Pros do not remotely outweigh the cons.
 

nighthob

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Correct. The assumption is that Reggie Bullock failed his physical and may be unavailable for a portion of this season. Bullock would then be signed with the room exception and the additional $14.8MM in cap room would then go to Marcus Morris.

Usually when these deals get blown up it's to the benefit of both parties (see Alec Burks with the Thunder), but not in this case. San Antonio agreed to a sign-and-trade for DeMarre Carroll and gave up Davis Bertans in the process to open up the mid-level for Morris. Going back on that agreement now is going to reflect very poorly on Morris, Klutch and the Knicks.
Yeah, the Knicks just opened a can of worms here as they’re reneging on their deal with Bullock in order to poach a guy that had reached an agreement with someone else. And almost certainly to facilitate a Westbrook trade on 12/15. As of today GMs around the NBA ow know to never trust either Klutch or the Knicks’ front office.
 

lexrageorge

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Yeah, the Knicks just opened a can of worms here as they’re reneging on their deal with Bullock in order to poach a guy that had reached an agreement with someone else. And almost certainly to facilitate a Westbrook trade on 12/15. As of today GMs around the NBA ow know to never trust either Klutch or the Knicks’ front office.
The Knicks front office being a laughing stock was probably already a known quantity, but I agree this doesn't help matters.

I'm not sure any GM would trust anything coming from Paul/Klutch even before this. But there's probably less nothing GM's can do about it.
 

The Social Chair

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One of Woj's sources is definitely Scott Perry. This is some unseemly water carrying.

@wojespn
In a brief conversation with ESPN, Bauman was complimentary of how the Knicks handled this emerging situation with Bullock. He cited how accommodating ownership, front office and medical staff had been in dealing with new issues facing deal: “First-class throughout,” Bauman said
 

ifmanis5

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KL signed a shorter Clipper deal to align with PG...
Leonard has chosen a shorter contract with the LA Clippers that lines up with new teammate Paul George's and sets up the two to be part of the 2021 free-agent class, a source confirmed to ESPN.

Leonard signed a three-year, $103.1 million deal that includes a player option for the 2021-22 season, the source said. He will make $32.74 million next season, $34.37 million in 2020-21 and $36.01 million in the player-option season.
 

moondog80

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I think the more important part of the timing is to let him become a free agent when he’s eligible for the 35% max.
Yep. But for a guy with a long and somewhat mysterious injury history, he's definitely taking a risk. Not that we will need to hold a bake sale for him if his thigh explodes next year and he only ends up with $188 million in career earnings.
 

DrewDawg

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Interesting read about how the youth basketball circuit is potentially leading to a lot of NBA injuries:


And according to Stotts' database, the four highest tallies of games missed by young players in their first two seasons have occurred in the past four seasons. Players picked in the 2014 first round missed 838 games to injury during their first two seasons, the highest figure Stotts has ever recorded; in 2015, 637, the third-highest tally; in 2016, there were 548 missed games; and in 2017, 751 games, the second-highest.
 

ifmanis5

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MaMo goes to the Knicks, Lyles to the Spurss per Woj:
ESPN story on Spurs finally pulling Marcus Morris' free agent offer after his waffling, agreeing on a two-year deal with F Trey Lyles; Morris agrees on Knicks deal.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Morris dumping Rich Paul:
New Knick Marcus Morris and his agent Rich Paul have agreed to part ways, sources told the Daily News. The separation comes after a controversial free agency in which Morris, 29, signed a one-year, $15 million deal with the Knicks after reneging on an agreement with the Spurs for two years, $20 million.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I’d pay that price in a heartbeat.
I don’t see how this team can lose Smart. Not only would we be a comically bad defensive team if we trade Jaylen and Smart for Beal, we’d lose Smart’s passing ability off the bench and the only guy who can replace that is probably Waters.
 

BigSoxFan

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I don’t see how this team can lose Smart. Not only would we be a comically bad defensive team if we trade Jaylen and Smart for Beal, we’d lose Smart’s passing ability off the bench and the only guy who can replace that is probably Waters.
That’s a trade off I’d be willing to make to have a Kemba/Tatum/Beal top 3 scoring unit. Brad knows how to teach defense so I’m confident he’d get them to be at least passable.

Losing Smart would sting but he’s still a role player and Jaylen is about to get paid a market rate. Beal is a star right in his prime.
 

mcpickl

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Smart and Brown get you there. But that's about the only way.

Only way it would work right now while having those four guys would be Washington taking back all four of Smart/Jaylen/Semi/Robert Williams

Would also leave Washington with 16 fully guaranteed contracts.

Washington would have to think Jaylen has All Star potential, and Celtics would have to hate the price they're hearing from Jaylen on an extension, for this to have any shot at all in my opinion.
 

snowmanny

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Or you give them the right to swap picks with the Memphis pick in the next two drafts or something.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Only way it would work right now while having those four guys would be Washington taking back all four of Smart/Jaylen/Semi/Robert Williams

Would also leave Washington with 16 fully guaranteed contracts.

Washington would have to think Jaylen has All Star potential, and Celtics would have to hate the price they're hearing from Jaylen on an extension, for this to have any shot at all in my opinion.
The complaints about the Celtics small ball line ups and terrible help defense might permanently destroy the SoSH servers.

Beal is very good but strikes me as not good enough to deplete your depth AND defense just to get him.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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That’s a trade off I’d be willing to make to have a Kemba/Tatum/Beal top 3 scoring unit. Brad knows how to teach defense so I’m confident he’d get them to be at least passable.

Losing Smart would sting but he’s still a role player and Jaylen is about to get paid a market rate. Beal is a star right in his prime.
Is Kemba/Tatum/Beal markedly better than John Wall/Beal/Otto Porter?

To my thinking, the Cs need one of JT/JB to become all-NBA to be a championship caliber team. At this point, I'd rather have two bites at the apple than just one.
 

BigSoxFan

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Is Kemba/Tatum/Beal markedly better than John Wall/Beal/Otto Porter?

To my thinking, the Cs need one of JT/JB to become all-NBA to be a championship caliber team. At this point, I'd rather have two bites at the apple than just one.
Stevens is a ton better than Scott Brooks though. I agree with the JT/JB sentiment but the clock is ticking on JB and he may never get there. I wouldn’t give up Memphis pick for Beal and they’d probably insist on it so I doubt it would go anywhere even if Ainge were interested.