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PedroKsBambino

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It makes sense that this would be the next shoe to drop.

Pelinka keeping THT over Caruso last off-season was dumb at the time and looks even dumber now.
The whole sequence---spotting him initially as a good get; signing him to a three-year deal (rather than keeping him cheap); not including him in deals when his value was up (Lowry deal supposedly fell apart over this); then dumping him for useful but flawed Beverly---is so Lakers. There's some good scouting, some defensible but ultimately wrong contract thinking, and then some knee-jerky looking transactions to make someone somewhere happy. And they get older (again) and less flexible (again).
 

Cellar-Door

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With Lisfranc? I dunno, is it less of a death sentence than it is in other sports, particularly baseball? For a guy that tall with foot injuries, GL having a real career.
No clue on baseball, but it's really not a basketball injury, 1 guy has had it and was fine, in football it's not a death sentence at all, just another serious injury.
I generally would think it's LESS concerning than Embiid breaking his foot twice.
 

Ed Hillel

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No clue on baseball, but it's really not a basketball injury, 1 guy has had it and was fine, in football it's not a death sentence at all, just another serious injury.
I generally would think it's LESS concerning than Embiid breaking his foot twice.
Wasn't Yao Ming a Lisfranc fracture? Udonis Haslem had one at age 30 and his play dropped off significantly after that, as well. Could be age, could be injury, but it probably hurt to at least some extent.
 

Jimbodandy

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The "I wouldn't draft Chet top3" guys shouldn't go spiking the football just yet. But a dab might be understandable.

Those Marfan's rumors don't seem quite so outlandish now.
 

Cellar-Door

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Wasn't Yao Ming a Lisfranc fracture? Udonis Haslem had one at age 30 and his play dropped off significantly after that, as well.
https://www.espn.com/blog/houston-rockets/post/_/id/2881/years-later-former-rockets-star-yao-ming-continues-to-have-foot-issues
Fifth metatarsal, a broken toe and a broken ankle for Yao.
Not sure on Haslem, but he was also in his 30s, and his rate stats look like normal aging curve and a role change more than a physical issue, since he mostly bounced back at age 31 and 32, before the sharp tail off in his mid 30s.
 

BigSoxFan

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The "I wouldn't draft Chet top3" guys shouldn't go spiking the football just yet. But a dab might be understandable.

Those Marfan's rumors don't seem quite so outlandish now.
I was one of those but I’m also disappointed because I wanted to see him in action.
 

the moops

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Beverly stinks and it will be funny to see him bringing all his shit to the Lakers. Just a match made in heaven if you enjoy watching that ship sink.
He does bring shit, but he is still a very good basketball player and immediately steps into their starting lineup. At the cost of Tucker it is a steal, IMO
 

Jimbodandy

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I was one of those but I’m also disappointed because I wanted to see him in action.
Yeah me too on both counts. Modern medicine is ridiculous and makes miracles happen frequently. I'm pulling for him.

Embiid was cited here as a guy who's at a really high level after starting his career this way. Let's hope.
 

JCizzle

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He does bring shit, but he is still a very good basketball player and immediately steps into their starting lineup. At the cost of Tucker it is a steal, IMO
Ahhh, it wasn't that long ago that THT was borderline "untouchable"! What a bubble Lakers fans and media live in.

Los Angeles Lakers: Why Talen-Horton Tucker is now untouchable (lakeshowlife.com)

Talen Horton-Tucker is the youngest player on the Los Angeles Lakers with boatloads of potential. We have already seen him contribute on a title-caliber team at just 20 years old. His size, length and basketball IQ, the sky is the limit for THT and we might not even see him start his peak for another 5-6 years.
Remember that this is the same player that the Los Angeles Lakers refused to trade for Kyle Lowry. Lowry is old, and it was only half a season of his services, but he is still more impactful than Seth Curry and at the time THT was only guaranteed to be a Laker for another half-season as well.
But that is not going to happen any time soon, warranting THT as untouchable. In fact, the only players on the Los Angeles Lakers who are more untouchable than THT are LeBron James and Anthony Davis. Everyone else would be traded from LA before the team traded THT.
NBA Rumors: Lakers Will Only Trade Talen Horton-Tucker For 'All-Star Caliber Player' | Yardbarker

The Lakers are reportedly considering Talen Horton-Tucker untouchable unless they can build a package around him to get an All-Star caliber player.
 

Cesar Crespo

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The "I wouldn't draft Chet top3" guys shouldn't go spiking the football just yet. But a dab might be understandable.

Those Marfan's rumors don't seem quite so outlandish now.
I don't pretend to be a draftnik but tall guys and foot injuries are a bad omen. I had no thoughts at all about him going 3rd, good or bad. Though Chet isn't quite as tall as I thought he was.

If he was 7'2 or 7'3, this would be much more of a death sentence.

Big Z comes to mind as a success story. I know he lost a bunch of time early in his career but went out to play for 12 years.

Kristaps has had some issues, too. He still puts up numbers but isn't the player he was, or was projected to be.
 

Jimbodandy

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Lakes prospects being overrated is the least surprising thing in this thread. It's like the sun rising.

Talent wise, this deal is a win for the Lakers. But Danny's focus isn't just on that right now.
 

Smokey Joe

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Kliq

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The "I wouldn't draft Chet top3" guys shouldn't go spiking the football just yet. But a dab might be understandable.

Those Marfan's rumors don't seem quite so outlandish now.
Is there any evidence at all to think Holmgren has Marfans?
 

GeorgeCostanza

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The "I wouldn't draft Chet top3" guys shouldn't go spiking the football just yet. But a dab might be understandable.

Those Marfan's rumors don't seem quite so outlandish now.
It’s possible to be really tall and really skinny without being a Marf (KD, the Bol’s). He does have some Marf-esque facial features, but his dad is super tall and has no outward sign of Marfans.

I doubt even the Thunder would burn that draft capital on a guy who has a not unlikely chance to drop dead on the court, or suffer any other number of Marfan related injuries (torn ligaments/tendons, spontaneous pneumothorax, detached retina, etc). See Isaiah Austin for how the NBA handles a Marf.

Full disclosure, my oldest son was diagnosed with Marfan Syndrome 8ish years ago.
 

Jimbodandy

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Fwiw, I was leery of the suggestions that he had Marfan's because I don't know that much about it.

The piece that I read pre-draft was that some team wanted to screen him for it but he refused medicals. At the time, I figured that someone was maybe playing dirty pool so he would drop to them.

Edit: I probably was out over my skis on that one, sorry.
 
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djbayko

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Query whether Holgrem's frame actually helps him. I was always under the impression that the issue with 7-footers and foot injuries, was not the height per se, but the weight that typically comes along with that height.

FWIW, as I recall Oden had knee, not foot, issues.
Maybe, but he's going to have to put on weight if he wants to be successful in the NBA.
 

benhogan

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Beverly stinks and it will be funny to see him bringing all his shit to the Lakers. Just a match made in heaven if you enjoy watching that ship sink.
PatBev is OK. BUT he's oft-injured and his ego is off the charts

this reddit made me chuckle

https://www.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/wx3hom/quinn_patrick_beverley_is_a_378_career_3point/

If Pelinka really did offer DS a sizeable deal 18mths ago he has to be one of the worst GMs in pro sports

The slow sink is going to be glorious
 

Auger34

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PatBev is OK. BUT he's oft-injured and his ego is off the charts

this reddit made me chuckle

https://www.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/wx3hom/quinn_patrick_beverley_is_a_378_career_3point/

If Pelinka really did offer DS a sizeable deal 18mths ago he has to be one of the worst GMs in pro sports

The slow sink is going to be glorious
This is exactly right. Beverley is not “great”, he’s not “useless”. He’s a decent starter, who seems to think he’s a superstar (and talks like he is too).
It will be pretty interesting to watch what he’s like on the Lakers, where he’s playing with two true established superstars
 

mcpickl

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Ha, Westbrook and PB on the same team.
View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1562641189274152965

The Los Angeles Lakers are in advanced talks on a trade to acquire Utah Jazz guard Patrick Beverley for Talen Horton-Tucker and Stanley Johnson, sources tell ESPN. Deal could be finalized as soon as Thursday.
Wild how much turnover there has been in LA.

They won the title 22 months ago, only Lebron and AD are left from that roster.
 

chilidawg

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This is exactly right. Beverley is not “great”, he’s not “useless”. He’s a decent starter, who seems to think he’s a superstar (and talks like he is too).
It will be pretty interesting to watch what he’s like on the Lakers, where he’s playing with two true established superstars
Probably just me, but a tough minded defensive oriented vet who can shoot a bit seems like a good fit there.
 

Jimbodandy

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Yup, plus the coach.

Rumors are that Westbrook gets moved before training camp.
Lakers rumors are always strong. Will be interesting to see who the Lakers can get for him before camp. Nobody has a worse 1-year value, but at least RW's deal doesn't have years on it.

RW for Fournier/Randle. Who says no?
 

benhogan

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Lakers rumors are always strong. Will be interesting to see who the Lakers can get for him before camp. Nobody has a worse 1-year value, but at least RW's deal doesn't have years on it.

RW for Fournier/Randle. Who says no?
I'd have to think the Knicks are laser-focused on Dono. Unless you are suggesting they use RWB as salary for DM
 

Jimbodandy

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I'd have to think the Knicks are laser-focused on Dono. Unless you are suggesting they use RWB as salary for DM
I'm just imagining who has two bad contracts that might offset Russell's bad contract. Also wishcasting because Westbrook in New York would just be frigging awesome.
 

Swedgin

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I'm just imagining who has two bad contracts that might offset Russell's bad contract. Also wishcasting because Westbrook in New York would just be frigging awesome.
A three team with Jazz taking on Russell (to be bought out/sent home), the Lakers getting Fournier and Bojan, the Knicks getting Mitchell and the Jazz getting a Lakers first, along with a bunch of picks from the Knicks along with Toppin and Grimes, works.

I can't see the Lakers taking on Randle. He's an awful fit with Lebron and AD.
 

benhogan

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A three team with Jazz taking on Russell (to be bought out/sent home), the Lakers getting Fournier and Bojan, the Knicks getting Mitchell and the Jazz getting a Lakers first, along with a bunch of picks from the Knicks along with Toppin and Grimes, works.

I can't see the Lakers taking on Randle. He's an awful fit with Lebron and AD.
Utah could even rebuild RWB's value, memories are short in the NBA.

BUT rebuilding Julius Randle back would be easier if they want to go in that direction. JR is only a year away from All-NBA

I'd like to see Danny do Randle + Grimes + Quickley + 3 Unprotected 1sts + 2 swaps
(that would be an HR in my book)
 

Cellar-Door

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I'd need to see the full text, and particularly the year 2 performance numbers (which they don't mention in the brief), but I would guess that's not significantly different than ACL tears or Jones fractures. I'd also like to see if they accounted for age, and normal performance decline curves.
 

Euclis20

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Utah could even rebuild RWB's value, memories are short in the NBA.

BUT rebuilding Julius Randle back would be easier if they want to go in that direction. JR is only a year away from All-NBA

I'd like to see Danny do Randle + Grimes + Quickley + 3 Unprotected 1sts + 2 swaps
(that would be an HR in my book)
Randle's 2021 season looks like a Brady Anderson level outlier year (not implying anything dirty, just that it stands out). I don't see his value ever approaching all-NBA level again.
 

EvilEmpire

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I'm skeptical on the RJ deal if it gets done, but if that move really does prevent the Knicks from paying Danny an emperor's ransom for Mitchell, sign me up.

The Knicks will probably find a way to do both. :(
 

HomeRunBaker

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He was also a below average player by pretty much every advanced metric
It is kinda ridiculous to project Barrett to be a below average player based on his teenage seasons. Pretty much all 21-yr olds are below avg NBA players at the time. The contract is paying for his growth curve which should be fairly significant and not expecting him to flat line from here.
 

benhogan

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I'm skeptical on the RJ deal if it gets done, but if that move really does prevent the Knicks from paying Danny an emperor's ransom for Mitchell, sign me up.

The Knicks will probably find a way to do both. :(
ending up with RJ, DONO, Brunsen, Mitchell Robinson and unloading Randle or Fournier wouldn't be the worst direction.

Not sure Thibs would be the right guy to lead that group but that's for another day
 

Jimbodandy

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It is kinda ridiculous to project Barrett to be a below average player based on his teenage seasons. Pretty much all 21-yr olds are below avg NBA players at the time. The contract is paying for his growth curve which should be fairly significant and not expecting him to flat line from here.
If we rank his draft class by VORP, he's the ninth pick of the second round. There's actually a couple of really good entire teams on the list ahead of him.

Sure, growth curve. Probably have no other choice. But damn, max money for a guy who doesn't make his teammates better or play any defense whateoever (and is already trending downward on D) and had a .511 TS% in year 3. What a country.
 

Swedgin

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I'm skeptical on the RJ deal if it gets done, but if that move really does prevent the Knicks from paying Danny an emperor's ransom for Mitchell, sign me up.

The Knicks will probably find a way to do both. :(
Notwithstanding the Woj report, don't think it has any impact on the Mitchell deal. Most of the reporting/informed speculation I've seen to date, is that Ainge was not interested in RJ precisely because he was up for/would be looking for an extension at near max dollars. I tend to buy that (I don't doubt that the Knicks offered up Barrett to try to reduce that amount of picks that had to be included). Utah looks like a complete tear down and Barrett does not really fit that time line.

The player piece of that deal is still fairly obvious- with some dickering over what salary gets used as ballast. Utah would want Rose (an expiring), whereas the Knicks would prefer Fournier. But the real bargaining is over the picks - the number, which ones and how protected.
 
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