Offseason Rumors/News

Sam Ray Not

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He may get easier assignments, but teams definitely try attacking him, and it doesn’t really work.

He’s a REALLY smart defensive player.
Yeah. He's also gotten really strong in his 30s, so trying to bully him on either end of the floor doesn't work like it used to.
 

RorschachsMask

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Yeah. He's also gotten really strong in his 30s, so trying to bully him on either end of the floor doesn't work like it used to.
Yeah I should have phrased that better, I meant that teams try to force switches so they can attack Steph on the defensive end. But….it doesn’t really work.

It’s a credit to him, especially because I still see people try to make him sound like a bad defender.
 

sezwho

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Yeah I should have phrased that better, I meant that teams try to force switches so they can attack Steph on the defensive end. But….it doesn’t really work.

It’s a credit to him, especially because I still see people try to make him sound like a bad defender.
He also gets attacked out of pure desperation, in the theory that calories burned on D won’t be used on O. Didn’t love how that played out most recently, but even if he’s holding up it’s still probably the right choice to keep going at him.
 

RorschachsMask

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thanks for posting

most defensive metrics are pretty questionable but that list is about as good as it gets (matches the eye test)
What I do when I see something like that, is go and check the matchup difficulty on bball index. Then I just use a combination of that, the numbers from above, and eye test.

Tatum and Rob both being that good defensively is insane.
 

Euclis20

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Yeah. He's also gotten really strong in his 30s, so trying to bully him on either end of the floor doesn't work like it used to.
He's usually the weak point of the Warriors' D in the same way that Derrick White is the weak point of the Celtics' D. He isn't an all defense level point guard, but he hasn't been a liability on that end in forever.
 

Jimbodandy

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Yeah I should have phrased that better, I meant that teams try to force switches so they can attack Steph on the defensive end. But….it doesn’t really work.

It’s a credit to him, especially because I still see people try to make him sound like a bad defender.
He has never been a bad defender. He has had periods of slightly below average, but for most of his career has has been an above average defender. Harden should be taking whatever shit goes Steph's way for bad defense. His DARKO graph is pretty gross.
 

Jimbodandy

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thanks for posting

most defensive metrics are pretty questionable but that list is about as good as it gets (matches the eye test)
Yeah it's a pretty reliable list of on-ball awesomeness. Doesn't tell the off-ball story, but it sure as shit passes the eyeball test for on ball stoppers.
 

benhogan

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If the bar is "better than Kornet" Brad may have unearthed something

Attached his NBA/Knick highlight reel

Looks like he can move/has agility. Hopefully, he shows up in the best shape of his life

Vonleh will join a group that includes Matt Ryan, Bruno Cabloco, Juwan Morgan, (potentially Juhann Bergarin) the two-way contract players (J.D. Davison and Mfiondu Kabengele) for the final 2-3 roster spots.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/8/2/23288767/noah-vonleh-boston-celtics-what-to-expect-good-fit-robert-williams-al-horford
 

benhogan

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maybe the Celtics didn't offer Brown +White + pick for KD?

https://heavy.com/sports/brooklyn-nets/kevin-durant-to-meet-joe-tsai-trade-demand/

There was a recent report that the Nets had weeks ago turned down an offer of Jaylen Brown, Derrick White and a first round pick from the Celtics, but others have disputed to Heavy that such a proposal was ever truly on the table.

A personnel exec from another club expressed disappointment with the process.

“I think there’s some teams that aren’t very happy that when they talk to Brooklyn it gets in the papers,” he said. “That doesn’t help. I’ve talked with a couple of teams that are not happy with the rumors that creep out of there through all this. It’s not a good way to do business.”

Unless, perhaps, the Nets are trying to roil the waters in Boston and damage the relationship with Brown.
 

RorschachsMask

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maybe the Celtics didn't offer Brown +White + pick for KD?

https://heavy.com/sports/brooklyn-nets/kevin-durant-to-meet-joe-tsai-trade-demand/

There was a recent report that the Nets had weeks ago turned down an offer of Jaylen Brown, Derrick White and a first round pick from the Celtics, but others have disputed to Heavy that such a proposal was ever truly on the table.

A personnel exec from another club expressed disappointment with the process.

“I think there’s some teams that aren’t very happy that when they talk to Brooklyn it gets in the papers,” he said. “That doesn’t help. I’ve talked with a couple of teams that are not happy with the rumors that creep out of there through all this. It’s not a good way to do business.”

Unless, perhaps, the Nets are trying to roil the waters in Boston and damage the relationship with Brown.
I love Bulpett, but no way I go with him over the combination of Shams, Woj, Windy, Fischer, and then the likes of KOC, Lowe, Weiss, Murphy, etc.
 

Smokey Joe

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I love Bulpett, but no way I go with him over the combination of Shams, Woj, Windy, Fischer, and then the likes of KOC, Lowe, Weiss, Murphy, etc.
It depends on what you mean by “make an offer”. If you have a conversation with another team;
Celtics- “So what are you looking for in exchange for Durant?”
Nets- “From you? Brown, Smart and some picks.
Celtics- “No f’ing way.”
Nets- “Well you would have to include somebody to make the salaries match. How about White?”
Celtics- “Ugh! If we gave you 2 starting players, we wouldn’t be giving you any picks. Maybe one.”
Nets- “Three picks and three swaps”
Celtics- “We’re gonna have to think about this. We’ll call you back.”

Is that an offer? It is if you are a sports writer trying to generate some clicks. It is if you are the Nets trying to pump up KDs price. I am not impressed with Woj or Shams. They do a lot of favors for teams and agents in exchange for access and don’t feel they have work to hard to corroborate stuff like this.
All of those other writers are happy to generate their own clicks with these reports without spending too much time checking up on them.
Then when the furor dies down, Bulpett can generate more clicks by debunking the story.

And so it goes.
 

Strike4

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I love Bulpett, but no way I go with him over the combination of Shams, Woj, Windy, Fischer, and then the likes of KOC, Lowe, Weiss, Murphy, etc.
But they aren't mutually exclusive. If it's part of Brooklyn's agenda and they put it out there, it's not like all these reporters were wrong. Brooklyn might just have gone too far with something they had done previously with other teams, and the Celtics reacted in a stronger manner. Nets might have touched the stove on this one.
 

Cellar-Door

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I love Bulpett, but no way I go with him over the combination of Shams, Woj, Windy, Fischer, and then the likes of KOC, Lowe, Weiss, Murphy, etc.
I will say Lowe on his pod was talking with someone (Marks?) about how the idea that there are "offers" like it's fantasy football isn't really accurate, you just talk about guys and it's very fluid, so when you hear that an offer was made.. unless it was something that was ready to go to the league and got shot down by the owner, it is more "we discussed these guys in non-concrete terms"

As to the reports from Woj and Shams... I trust 100% that what they printed is exactly what the BKN front office person told them, which is all they really do... they aren't investigating, thye just post what they get texted.
 

Jimbodandy

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I will say Lowe on his pod was talking with someone (Marks?) about how the idea that there are "offers" like it's fantasy football isn't really accurate, you just talk about guys and it's very fluid, so when you hear that an offer was made.. unless it was something that was ready to go to the league and got shot down by the owner, it is more "we discussed these guys in non-concrete terms"

As to the reports from Woj and Shams... I trust 100% that what they printed is exactly what the BKN front office person told them, which is all they really do... they aren't investigating, thye just post what they get texted.
This.

Nobody is accusing Woj and Shams of dishonestly. That's what they were told...by Brooklyn. Doesn't mean that any offer was made.

As always with this shit, follow the money. Who benefits from this story? And would they have incentive to stretch the truth to get an angle out there? In this case, the answers are "Brooklyn" and "yes".

Doesn't mean that it's bullshit, but it could be.
 

EvilEmpire

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I have a hard time seeing Brooklyn and Boston seriously engage with each other at all if Brown wasn't on the table, but I can buy that all the details beyond that were fluid.

But maybe Boston really isn't that interested in Durant and didn't engage beyond checking in or something.
 

Cellar-Door

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I have a hard time seeing Brooklyn and Boston seriously engage with each other at all if Brown wasn't on the table, but I can buy that all the details beyond that were fluid.

But maybe Boston really isn't that interested in Durant and didn't engage beyond checking in or something.
My guess is both sides are playing media games.
BKN says "oh yeah there was an offer of X,Y,Z" because they were all discussed, and maybe at some point BKN said... yeah we'd be looking for "W,X,Y,Z in this deal" and BOS said "hmm X.Y, Z and W seems like a lot"
BOS is able to say "the deal of X,Y,Z was never made" because they never made a concrete offer, but they discussed those pieces individually and perhaps in tandem.

DO I think BOS made a take it or leave it offer of Jaylen, White and a 1st...... no.
Do I think BOS didn't talk about Jaylen plus as the core of a deal... nope.

I'm sure Jaylen was discussed either directly or by imputation.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I will say Lowe on his pod was talking with someone (Marks?) about how the idea that there are "offers" like it's fantasy football isn't really accurate, you just talk about guys and it's very fluid, so when you hear that an offer was made.. unless it was something that was ready to go to the league and got shot down by the owner, it is more "we discussed these guys in non-concrete terms"

As to the reports from Woj and Shams... I trust 100% that what they printed is exactly what the BKN front office person told them, which is all they really do... they aren't investigating, thye just post what they get texted.
I think it was Bontemps.

IIRC, one of them also said - and the other agreed - that everyone knows that JT is off the table so JB would have to be the centerpiece of a trade and as such the teams could discuss JB without ever mentioning him name.

"We need two starters and picks."

"No we are giving up two starters and we're not giving up multiple picks."
 

Jimbodandy

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I think it was Bontemps.

IIRC, one of them also said - and the other agreed - that everyone knows that JT is off the table so JB would have to be the centerpiece of a trade and as such the teams could discuss JB without ever mentioning him name.

"We need two starters and picks."

"No we are giving up two starters and we're not giving up multiple picks."
Exactly.

Agree with everyone here that Brad didn't call Brooklyn and specifically say, "JT and JB are off the table, what's your offer." There's no point in making that call.

You call and feel out what Brooklyn is looking for. They list a few guys. They don't bother mentioning JT either, because why bother. So they throw out Brown and whatever else they want (Smart, Grant, all the firsts and swaps, Geno, the Bruins Zamboni), and Brad says "you're nuts" and that's that. Maybe he counters with, "you can't be serious about Smart and all of the picks, are you mental?".

Then Brooklyn says that Brown is on the table. He is, by extension, because no phone call happens if he isn't. Doesn't mean that PBS made a formal offer of anything.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Is that a good or bad outcome for the C's? I get it's bad financially but it basically keeps Tatum locked here.
 

Jimbodandy

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I mean we are all guessing here, but it seems just as likely that there was an offer of Brown, White, pick(s) as there wasn't.
Yeah we're guessing. Point is that the Celtics wouldn't leak that. So Brooklyn is either leaking it or pushing a false narrative. Either is believable to me.

Is that a good or bad outcome for the C's? I get it's bad financially but it basically keeps Tatum locked here.
I'd rather he gets it and is all but guaranteed to stay here long-term. Guys leave some money on the table, but not megabucks. I think that every team can afford one of those guys without having to load up with a full JAG bench. Especially if they can keep signing other rotation guys to cost effective deals like Marcus and TL.
 

the moops

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Yeah we're guessing. Point is that the Celtics wouldn't leak that. So Brooklyn is either leaking it or pushing a false narrative. Either is believable to me.
There is a third alternative too though. Boston may not want it leaked, but that doesn't prevent someone from opening their mouth a bit too much or someone becoming privy to the information in some other way.

Leaks happen all the time. And they come from any and every side of the equation.
 

Jimbodandy

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There is a third alternative too though. Boston may not want it leaked, but that doesn't prevent someone from opening their mouth a bit too much or someone becoming privy to the information in some other way.

Leaks happen all the time. And they come from any and every side of the equation.
Yeah but this front office has no history of it, and Brooklyn's does. It's not a coin flip where this came from. Of course anything is possible. Sometimes the dog actually does eat the homework.
 

nighthob

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Is that a good or bad outcome for the C's? I get it's bad financially but it basically keeps Tatum locked here.
It’s a great outcome for Boston, 35% max with 8% raises vs 30% max with 5% raises amounts to a pretty pile of cash. With the cap going up Boston is pretty well situated.
 

BigSoxFan

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It’s a great outcome for Boston, 35% max with 8% raises vs 30% max with 5% raises amounts to a pretty pile of cash. With the cap going up Boston is pretty well situated.
Yup. Anything that increases the odds of Tatum sticking around in Boston for the entirety of his prime is great news for us. Only potential downside is if his play is impacted by trying to put up numbers to solidify this. Fortunately, I think the Finals run has raised his profile so much that he should be a semi-lock as long as he stays healthy and plays close to his capabilities.
 

jmcc5400

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Yup. Anything that increases the odds of Tatum sticking around in Boston for the entirety of his prime is great news for us. Only potential downside is if his play is impacted by trying to put up numbers to solidify this. Fortunately, I think the Finals run has raised his profile so much that he should be a semi-lock as long as he stays healthy and plays close to his capabilities.
Yeah. To accentuate the obvious, It would be kind of nice if he plays well enough to be All-NBA. If he doesn’t, the team’s ceiling gets much lower.
 

Sam Ray Not

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If When Jayson Tatum makes the 2023 All-NBA team

Edit: and yeah, fantastic outcome, given you're talking his peak age 26-30 seasons.

Edit #2: whoops, I misread that as "All-Star Team." I'd say it's basically 100% he's an All-Star, but maybe 50-50 he's All-NBA first team again?

Edit #3: oh wait, is "All-NBA" the top three teams? If so, that's probably 95%.
 
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lovegtm

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If When Jayson Tatum makes the 2023 All-NBA team

Edit: and yeah, fantastic outcome, given you're talking his peak age 26-30 seasons.

Edit #2: whoops, I misread that as "All-Star Team." I'd say it's basically 100% he's an All-Star, but maybe 50-50 he's All-NBA first team again?

Edit #3: oh wait, is "All-NBA" the top three teams? If so, that's probably 95%.
Yeah, top 3 teams. The man is going to get supermaxxxed.
 

JM3

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Just to start a new convo... who are your top 5 under 25?

Here's Perks'

1) Luka
2) Ja
3) Trae
4) Tatum
5) Edwards
 

JM3

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Going to be honest - mostly just asked the question because I saw the list while at the gym & was like why in the world is Tatum 4th?

I think the more interesting question is best 5 man lineup...

Ja/Edwards/Luka/Tatum/Mobley? Idk, will have to think about it more.

Kinda like Luka/Edwards/Tatum/Ingram/Mobley
 

Swedgin

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Luka-Tatum-Trae-Ja-Booker

Really the only interesting spot.
Feel like Tatum, Ja and Luka are in pen. Trae is in pencil because of his D, and 5 is wide open.

Right now I would go with Ant. But at the end of the 22/23 season it would not shock me if any of Zion, Mobley, Cade, Barnes, Paolo, Shai, Lamelo, Garland or Bam were the pick

There is a lot of talent in the league right now.
 

tbb345

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I’d go
Luka-Tatum-Ja-Zion-Ant

Full disclosure, I’ve always been way more down on Trae than consensus. I thought that ECF run was completely lucky and he’s a complete sieve defensively. It’s absolutely fucking insane that Perk would put him above Tatum but I think Perk is basically just a hot take machine. I’m not sure he even believes that list is correct
 

RG33

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I would have Luka - Tatum - Ja - Edwards - Trae

And of Ja - Edwards - Trae I think that Edwards might be the one competing for the #2 spot a year from now.
 

Euclis20

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I'm not so certain that Ja belongs above Trae. He's got the physical tools to be a better defender but he's certainly not using them (yet). Add in potential injury concerns with Ja and it wouldn't shock me if a year from now their order is flipped. Very curious to see how he looks alongside Murray.