Offseason Rumors/News

Buster Olney the Lonely

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Take this with a grain of salt. I was looking for this exact thing yesterday and came across this post.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/vq02p6/heres_around_what_teams_have_left_to_spend_w/

Here’s around what teams have left to spend (w/ estimated deals):

#Space/Room:
SAS: $38.5M
IND: $27.9M
DET: $8.4M
NYK: $5.4M

#Non-Taxpayer MLE:
CHA
HOU
MEM
OKC
ORL

#Taxpayer MLE:
ATL
BKN
MIA
NOP
PHX
UTA

#Bi-Annual:
MIN
SAC
TOR

#Minimums:
BOS
CHI
CLE
DAL
DEN
GSW
LAC
LAL
MIL
PHI
POR
WAS
 

benhogan

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If he weren't a big, he'd be a perfect candidate to just take the qualifying offer.

As a big, it's trickier, since an injury might take his subsequent value, and he should secure the bag now.

Who even has cap space now?
Not many teams with CAP space left. 100% agree that a BIG betting on a QO isn't great

There was speculation that Ayton would be MAX'd and a S+T where PHX would get a lottery pick/players as comp.
PDX, Spurs, Detroit, and others were the names thrown around here.

I guess SAS are still in-play where they exchange Poeltl and Ayton (PHX should be thrilled with that outcome). Indy swapping Turner for Ayton. Both make timeline sense for SAS/Indy

ALSO quitting on PHX/Monty in GAME7 is going to make it tricky to bring him back
 
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JCizzle

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ALSO quitting on PHX/Monty in GAME7 is going to make it tricky to bring him back
In his defense, isn't the rumor that he played through COVID in that game? I know the COVID stuff leaked a week after the game, but I never saw if they leaked whether it was CP3 or Ayton who had it. Both played quite poorly.
 

benhogan

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In his defense, isn't the rumor that he played through COVID in that game? I know the COVID stuff leaked a week after the game, but I never saw if they leaked whether it was CP3 or Ayton who had it. Both played quite poorly.
If he had COVID that's completely defensible. Never heard who had it, was too focused on the C's at the time to care

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/suns-dealt-with-covid-outbreak-during-west-semifinals-with-at-least-one-player-testing-positive-per-report/
 

Was (Not Wasdin)

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I know that the NBA is just loaded with outsized egos and Lebron (who has earned it) might have the biggest. But why do these guys think they can “fix” Kyrie? He’s always been this way. In Cleveland, they sucked before Lebron came back and no one cared, and once Lebron came back the spotlight was on him, so Kyrie could do his thing in peace. But it shined pretty harshly on him in Boston and New Jersey, and it wasn’t pretty.

Does no one in the NBA remember the story of the scorpion and the frog?
 

Euclis20

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I know that the NBA is just loaded with outsized egos and Lebron (who has earned it) might have the biggest. But why do these guys think they can “fix” Kyrie? He’s always been this way. In Cleveland, they sucked before Lebron came back and no one cared, and once Lebron came back the spotlight was on him, so Kyrie could do his thing in peace. But it shined pretty harshly on him in Boston and New Jersey, and it wasn’t pretty.

Does no one in the NBA remember the story of the scorpion and the frog?
I know what you mean. All of Lakers twitter is ecstatic about the possibility of Kyrie, like the last 5 years didn't happen. Am I taking crazy pills? I guess the circus and uncertainty of Kyrie is preferable to them over the certain ongoing train crash that is Westbrook.
 

jmcc5400

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I know what you mean. All of Lakers twitter is ecstatic about the possibility of Kyrie, like the last 5 years didn't happen. Am I taking crazy pills? I guess the circus and uncertainty of Kyrie is preferable to them over the certain ongoing train crash that is Westbrook.
It makes sense. They’re in jail with Westbrook right now. Kyrie is a better basketball fit and the rationale that a one year contract and LeBron’s influence would have Kyrie on his best behavior isn’t insane.
 

EvilEmpire

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If anyone can can get productive play out of Kyrie, it is Lebron. Also, Kyrie's brand of self-centered crazy doesn't seem so out of the ordinary in LA.

I'm concerned that it will work out quite well for the Lakers if they can somehow move Westbrook for Kyrie.
 

benhogan

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If anyone can can get productive play out of Kyrie, it is Lebron. Also, Kyrie's brand of self-centered crazy doesn't seem so out of the ordinary in LA.

I'm concerned that it will work out quite well for the Lakers if they can somehow move Westbrook for Kyrie.
idk, part of me wants to see the drama unfold, watch it implode, and WITNESS the finger-pointing. If they beat up the rest of the Western Conf, so be it... They'll have zero bench - Kyrie, AD, and a 38yr old Bron will never make it to the NBA Finals on 2 legs

The Lakers losing every draft pick for the next decade is one more benefit
 

Cellar-Door

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I think IND is the team to look at for Ayton, they probably move Turner and cut a bit more salary in the process. Re-setting around Haliburton and Ayton makes sense
 

Cesar Crespo

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I think IND is the team to look at for Ayton, they probably move Turner and cut a bit more salary in the process. Re-setting around Haliburton and Ayton makes sense
Yeah. I asked somewhere if Phoenix would be interested in Turner+ Warren (or filler) for Ayton. Turner's on his last year.

Either way, Indiana makes a lot of sense.
 

JM3

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Why? IND can clear cap to just sign him.
Warren is the part that doesn't make sense, doubt he wants to be deep bench in PHX and it hardcaps PHX
He's an RFA so Phx still has a good amount of leverage.
 

lovegtm

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He's an RFA so Phx still has a good amount of leverage.
They problem is that they've telegraphed pretty hard to the league that they don't want him back.

I suppose they could match anything, and then deal him before the deadline once the waiting period is up, to minimize the tax bill. The risk there is that he's a malcontent and sees his value drop a la Simmons.
 

JM3

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They problem is that they've telegraphed pretty hard to the league that they don't want him back.

I suppose they could match anything, and then deal him before the deadline once the waiting period is up, to minimize the tax bill. The risk there is that he's a malcontent and sees his value drop a la Simmons.
Phx is the only team that can offer Ayton a 5th year, though, & it's not like it's likely that he'd rather forego a 5th year to try to force his way to Indiana by signing a 4 year tender with them.

So it makes sense for the Pacers, but I don't see one year of Turner being sufficient incentive for the Suns when they can likely get some more compelling offers.

You guys are probably right that 2 1sts is too many, though.

What about Turner, TJ Mcconnell & the Cavs lottery protected '23 1st which converts to 2 2nds if it doesn't convey?
 

Cellar-Door

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Phx is the only team that can offer Ayton a 5th year, though, & it's not like it's likely that he'd rather forego a 5th year to try to force his way to Indiana by signing a 4 year tender with them.

So it makes sense for the Pacers, but I don't see one year of Turner being sufficient incentive for the Suns when they can likely get some more compelling offers.

You guys are probably right that 2 1sts is too many, though.

What about Turner, TJ Mcconnell & the Cavs lottery protected '23 1st which converts to 2 2nds if it doesn't convey?
PHX isn't offering him a 5th year, if they were they'd have done it. Plus... He can just sign an offer sheet, which is match or no in 48 hours and no sign and trades,. Given PHX didn't want to pay him a max, and matching gives them a big tax bill, my guess is that they would be thrilled with just about any S&T,. I think Ayton is waiting to see what happens with BRK, if he's not approached about being in that deal IND looks like his best option.

IND honestly might not even be willing to move Turner, if they can get anything for him elsewhere. PHX did a terrible job of making people think that they might match and now the only way they get real value for him is stapling things to him in a BKN type deal
 

JM3

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PHX isn't offering him a 5th year, if they were they'd have done it. Plus... He can just sign an offer sheet, which is match or no in 48 hours and no sign and trades,. Given PHX didn't want to pay him a max, and matching gives them a big tax bill, my guess is that they would be thrilled with just about any S&T,. I think Ayton is waiting to see what happens with BRK, if he's not approached about being in that deal IND looks like his best option.

IND honestly might not even be willing to move Turner, if they can get anything for him elsewhere. PHX did a terrible job of making people think that they might match and now the only way they get real value for him is stapling things to him in a BKN type deal
The fact that they made it known they don't want to keep him obviously isn't optimal, but they wouldn't be the 1 giving him the 5th year if they're doing it as part of a S&T.

& Ayton is a +asset at whatever tender he signs, whatever Phx intends to do with him long term, so they need to match period. Even if it means holding him until they're allowed to trade him.
 

Cellar-Door

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The fact that they made it known they don't want to keep him obviously isn't optimal, but they wouldn't be the 1 giving him the 5th year if they're doing it as part of a S&T.

& Ayton is a +asset at whatever tender he signs, whatever Phx intends to do with him long term, so they need to match period. Even if it means holding him until they're allowed to trade him.
Can't give a 5th year on a S&T, no money advantage over a max offer sheet.
Maybe they do it, but I can't see Sarver paying a bunch of tax, or a team with a short window title shot wasting half a season on a guy that the coach doesn't want and who doesn't want to be there.
They'll get something for him likely but it won't be much.. Turner would be great return by himself, get a starting C and way less salary.
 

JM3

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Can't give a 5th year on a S&T, no money advantage over a max offer sheet.
Maybe they do it, but I can't see Sarver paying a bunch of tax, or a team with a short window title shot wasting half a season on a guy that the coach doesn't want and who doesn't want to be there.
They'll get something for him likely but it won't be much.. Turner would be great return by himself, get a starting C and way less salary.
Forgot about that 1st part. Yeah, it's lol Suns & I guess we'll have to see what happens. Seems like they're going to find a way to close their window way too early.
 

Cellar-Door

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Forgot about that 1st part. Yeah, it's lol Suns & I guess we'll have to see what happens. Seems like they're going to find a way to close their window way too early.
I actually forgot another thing... Can't trade a player you match an offer sheet on for a full year, so they'd have to hold him the whole season
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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I think BRK would have to get rid of Simmons since Mitchell is on a designated rookie extensions (same issue with Bam).
Does the NBA purposefully create all the exemptions and prohibitions and whatever to confuse reasonably casual basketball fans like me? The MLE, the TPE, Bird rights, whatever issue this is... I can't keep it all straight.
 

lars10

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Does the NBA purposefully create all the exemptions and prohibitions and whatever to confuse reasonably casual basketball fans like me? The MLE, the TPE, Bird rights, whatever issue this is... I can't keep it all straight.
It seems like the NBA is more about a GM that knows cap manipulation and doesn’t sign bad contracts.. it feels like the league where it’s hardest to turn a team around if you make a mistake.
 

benhogan

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Does the NBA purposefully create all the exemptions and prohibitions and whatever to confuse reasonably casual basketball fans like me? The MLE, the TPE, Bird rights, whatever issue this is... I can't keep it all straight.
That's why Mike Zarren is worth his weight in gold. He's probably the initial architect behind a lot of the Celtic moves.
 

Cellar-Door

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That's why Mike Zarren is worth his weight in gold. He's probably the initial architect behind a lot of the Celtic moves.
An example of this stuff..
The Celtics were only able to make the Brogdon deal because when they signed bodies after the trade deadline to ROS deals they added a 2nd nob-guaranteed year.
When they did that last year it was pointed out by cap guys in the media (like Keith Smith) that it was a smart move with no risk to the team, and pointed out that the Lakers also cycled guys on the minimum but didn't give them the nob-guaranteed 2nd year.. Which makes it harder for them to match in deals this summer.
 

radsoxfan

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I know what you mean. All of Lakers twitter is ecstatic about the possibility of Kyrie, like the last 5 years didn't happen. Am I taking crazy pills? I guess the circus and uncertainty of Kyrie is preferable to them over the certain ongoing train crash that is Westbrook.
I think the Lakers Kyrie optimism is entirely a product of their current grim situation.

If Westbrook wasn’t a bad fit/washed and the Lakers were a title contender, they would have a much more muted response to a potential Kyrie trade (much like other contenders).

As things are, the Lakers are not a contender and have no other path to improve. A 1 year Kyrie flier is a total gift, even if Kyrie is overrated on the court and has a 75% chance of doing something insane off the court. Those are still better odds than the RWB experience working out for them.
 

lars10

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I think the Lakers Kyrie optimism is entirely a product of their current grim situation.

If Westbrook wasn’t a bad fit/washed and the Lakers were a title contender, they would have a much more muted response to a potential Kyrie trade (much like other contenders).

As things are, the Lakers are not a contender and have no other path to improve. A 1 year Kyrie flier is a total gift, even if Kyrie is overrated on the court and has a 75% chance of doing something insane off the court. Those are still better odds than the RWB experience working out for them.
The Lakers have been trying to sign as many 2010s all stars as possible it seems. The same hype was there last year and it’s happening again this year.
 

nighthob

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I actually forgot another thing... Can't trade a player you match an offer sheet on for a full year, so they'd have to hold him the whole season
That’s not the rule. You can’t trade him to the team that signed him to the offer sheet for a year. But you’re otherwise free to trade the player elsewhere with his consent within the normal constraints of post-free agency trades.
 

Jimbodandy

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I know what you mean. All of Lakers twitter is ecstatic about the possibility of Kyrie, like the last 5 years didn't happen. Am I taking crazy pills? I guess the circus and uncertainty of Kyrie is preferable to them over the certain ongoing train crash that is Westbrook.
Honestly the average Lakers fan is all about the mystique and aura and half of the reason why they want a guy like Kyrie is to reinforce their own world view that L.A. is the coolest center of the basketball universe. They were all spiked footballs and parades when they got Westbrook. It's never anything based on logic.
 

tbb345

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From Marc Stein, so now that’s him and Mark Murphy (who later deleted the tweet) saying the Celtics will be or are in the conversation about KD.

View: https://twitter.com/dru_star/status/1543670911764676610?s=20&t=TPGbdgzI4ju-nA-K7Q2fWQ
No disrespect to Marc Stein but I am not sure that’s actually reporting anything or just doing what any NBA fan could do looking at rosters.

Pretty sure the “reporting” is looking at the teams who made the playoffs and have the best second banana who has value and they could conceivably trade.
 

Smokey Joe

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Does the NBA purposefully create all the exemptions and prohibitions and whatever to confuse reasonably casual basketball fans like me? The MLE, the TPE, Bird rights, whatever issue this is... I can't keep it all straight.
The league is run by lawyers.
 

Cellar-Door

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That’s not the rule. You can’t trade him to the team that signed him to the offer sheet for a year. But you’re otherwise free to trade the player elsewhere with his consent within the normal constraints of post-free agency trades.
yeah sorry I meant to say unless he agrees to the trade. Which means you can only trade him places he wants to go, which makes the risk a lot higher.
 

lexrageorge

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Does the NBA purposefully create all the exemptions and prohibitions and whatever to confuse reasonably casual basketball fans like me? The MLE, the TPE, Bird rights, whatever issue this is... I can't keep it all straight.
It’s the nature of a soft salary cap, which by definition results in “exceptions”. Many rules got added by committee over the years to close potential loopholes.

NHL and NFL have some obscure rules as well when it comes to the cap; there just seem to be fewer because it’s a hard cap.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Does the NBA purposefully create all the exemptions and prohibitions and whatever to confuse reasonably casual basketball fans like me? The MLE, the TPE, Bird rights, whatever issue this is... I can't keep it all straight.
A lot of the exemptions were created to rectify a situation that was perceived to be unfair or inappropriate. For example, the Larry Bird exception to keep Larry Bird on the Cs.

The designated rookie exemption rule was put in place - I understand - to make sure that one team could not stockpile the young studs that populate the league. Or, in the current NBA landscape, to make sure that two guys like Tatum and Luka or Embiid and Booker couldn't force their way to one team and rule the league for a decade.

This particular rule makes sense I think, particularly since there are currently only 14 players on the designated rookie extensions.
 

Cellar-Door

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Isaiah Roby's been cut by the Thunder - how would he be as a 3rd big for us?
He was really bad his first 2 years. Last year he looked much better, but the advanced metrics basically all still hated his offense.
Might not be terrible, his D is not bad, and shot 44% from 3 on about 100 attempts. He's not a bad passer, decent rebounder. His TOV rate went way down last year which is a good sign.
Honestly I think we won't even have a shot at him though, he makes so little that some team will put in a waiver claim for him before he gets to us.
 

Swedgin

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Does the NBA purposefully create all the exemptions and prohibitions and whatever to confuse reasonably casual basketball fans like me? The MLE, the TPE, Bird rights, whatever issue this is... I can't keep it all straight.
To follow 90% of NBA transactions, you don't need to be a lawyer (though I am so take this with a grain of salt). TPE rules are more arcane, but if you know your team has one - just think of as cap space that can be used in a trade.

If you're a casual fan, you need to know that:

1. The league has a soft salary cap;
2. The league has a luxury tax. The level at which a team pays the tax is around 25M more than the cap. Exceeding the tax for multiple years increases the amount of tax payments. The amount paid by the taxpaying teams is distributed to the non-tax paying teams.
3. To sign a player to a new contract you need either space under the salary cap or use an exception.
4. The exceptions that matter the most are:

Bird rights - basically the ability to exceed the cap for a guy who is already on your team. Easy to understand why this exists.

The midlevel exception - each team gets one each year. Tax paying teams get a smaller one than non-taxpaying teams. It is basically the ability to sign a middle class player each year even if your team is already over the cap.

5. The CBA limits the amount of years and dollars in a contract. An incumbent team can offer a free agent more in years and dollars, than a new team.

6. Teams that want to trade players either they need to: Match salaries on both sides of the transaction OR the team acquiring players has cap space or a TPE.

While a little complicated, I think the NBA's cap rules make intuitive sense most of the time. They are all about incentivizing (allowing small markets to keep homegrown talent - Bird Rights, max salaries, Restricted Free Agency) or dis-incentivizing (large market teams using the exceptions to the soft cap to massively out spend smaller market teams- Luxury Tax, max contracts) certain behavior.

In contrast, I feel like the NFL's cap rules are completely opaque.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Bryant was reportedly going to make his choice by day 2 of free agency.

Would seem clear his agent thinks there may be some things in the works that could open up his market or potential playing time a little more.
 

Cellar-Door

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Bryant was reportedly going to make his choice by day 2 of free agency.

Would seem clear his agent thinks there may be some things in the works that could open up his market or potential playing time a little more.
Can't find it now but someone reputable said yesterday that an agent told him that the top vet minimum guys were waiting to see what happens with Durant/Kyrie deals to see if starter type minutes open up