Offseason 2022-23 MLB Thread

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
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Jul 18, 2005
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Decent try? They were nowhere close. Falvey just completely blew it. How did he not see the market for what it was? He's so over his head. /twinsfaninsoxfanmode
Falvey is a lapdog for ownership, who are basically the Judge from The Natural. Completely uninterested in winning except as a side benefit of their frugal “we tried!” bullshit.

What is so frustrating is that they neither focus on developing young players (pitchers, especially), nor build through free agency. Nor even attempt some sort of hybrid of one big star surrounded by young players. They trade away for mid-tier player rentals, and sign FA leftovers to 1-2 year deals. It’s like rooting for a college team.

They could dominate the Twin Cities sports scene; they’re already probably #1with theVikings, but having a sustainable plan for success and seeing it through would be enough to shake the malaise that’s been on this team since 2019 (and that was a blip). The Twin Cities has a pretty big fan base and ample money (5th most Fortune 500 companies out of US Cities, as many as San Francisco), but ownership runs the team like its in Buffalo or something.
 
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Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I’ve harped on this, but Benintendi should have been moved the previous winter, when he still had the sheen of a budding young star (which the team should have seen through after several facets of his game fell apart in 2019).

The Sox would have gotten a very nice package, and left field would have been easy to fill (by Verdugo if that trade still happens, or by signing Corey Dickerson or Brad Miller or something).
Ironically enough, the best scenario was a proposal that had Benintendi going to Miami for Yellich. Would have been a great move for the 2019 season but then if the same extension was signed (and I can guarantee 90% of SOSH would have been demanding) it would have been an additional disaster on top of the Sale disaster.
And here we are trying to imagine trade scenarios where we end up with Yellich again.
Mind you…. I think Yellich is a great candidate to rebound into a good .800+ OPS good defense LF’er for 3-4 more years.
 

GB5

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Aug 26, 2013
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When Benintendi was still a budding superstar and hitting for power, he was a young well rounded outfielder who wasn’t making a ton of money and looked like he was going to be a cornerstone. He is the type of guy you don’t trade at that point. Once he decided to turn himself into an Otis Nixon type hitter, and wasn’t willing to change back, then he needed to be moved.
 

koufax32

He'll cry if he wants to...
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Dec 8, 2006
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7/$177mm for Swanson, per McDaniel
Spending like drunken sailors

If there is any actual strategy to the Sox FO this offseason, maybe it’s to let everyone else blow their wads this year so fewer buyers are there for future years.
 

radsoxfan

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Spending like drunken sailors

If there is any actual strategy to the Sox FO this offseason, maybe it’s to let everyone else blow their wads this year so fewer buyers are there for future years.
Inflation, interest rates, TV contracts etc..... maybe they are just the fools that don't recognize current market dynamics?

Unfortunately, not sure I would assume the Red Sox are the one team being prudent and all the other teams are teams are dumb.
 

koufax32

He'll cry if he wants to...
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Inflation, interest rates, TV contracts etc..... maybe they are just the fools that don't recognize current market dynamics?

Unfortunately, not sure I would assume the Red Sox are the one team being prudent and all the other teams are teams are dumb.
Oh I don’t think this is actually sound strategizing, just wondering out loud if there is a concrete strategy to this offseason, if this was it.

That said, I will be curious to see if this spending orgy has any impact on future offseasons. My guess is no, it will not.
 

LoLsapien

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Jul 5, 2022
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The strategy was clearly defined as trying to establish a sustainable championship caliber team. The best years of these contracts are the first few years. If we're more than a few players away from being legit sustainable contenders, there's no point in purchasing top of the market players right now. We'd merely be injuring ourselves for those future years when we might be capable of realistic repeated championship contention. It's shocking to me that I'm not just yelling into an echo chamber.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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“establishing a sustainable championship caliber team” feels more like a goal and less like a strategy. Like “getting in good shape” isn’t a strategy. It’s a goal…what’s really important is the tactics one uses to achieve that goal. I think that’s where we are a little lacking here.
 

LoLsapien

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“establishing a sustainable championship caliber team” feels more like a goal and less like a strategy. Like “getting in good shape” isn’t a strategy. It’s a goal…what’s really important is the tactics one uses to achieve that goal. I think that’s where we are a little lacking here.
Yeah strategy was absolutely the wrong word for me to use there. It just seems like a waste of energy to be wishing we were handing out monster contracts to guys who will be hurt or old in 4 years. I need a new hobby.
 

Sad Sam Jones

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Seems like everyone who can't command more than a 2-3 year deal is instead getting the 1-year opt-out in case they have a big 2023 season.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Lugo seems to want to start, but is kind of being paid as if he were a reliever, so I imagine the opt out protects him in case he starts, and is effective in that role.
 

Sad Sam Jones

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Lyles is such a Royals signing that it's shocking he's never pitched for them before. Their lineup has some chance of developing next season, but Singer is the only one of their highly drafted starting pitchers who has shown anything so far. Lyles is no better, but they'll get 160+ innings out of his arm for a year or two and then look for the next rotation filler. This is a preemptive strike against those who thought the Royals were going to be the feel-good story of 2022. They'll still be battling the Tigers to stay out of the cellar in 2023. It probably comes down to the health of Detroit's rotation next year.
 

LogansDad

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Lyles is such a Royals signing that it's shocking he's never pitched for them before. Their lineup has some chance of developing next season, but Singer is the only one of their highly drafted starting pitchers who has shown anything so far. Lyles is no better, but they'll get 160+ innings out of his arm for a year or two and then look for the next rotation filler. This is a preemptive strike against those who thought the Royals were going to be the feel-good story of 2022. They'll still be battling the Tigers to stay out of the cellar in 2023. It probably comes down to the health of Detroit's rotation next year.
As a person who thought the Royals were going to be the feel good story of 2022, I agree with you.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Yeah, it’s a bad sign when Ryan Yarbrough has the best “stuff” of your starting pitchers. Love how much Eck would pick on that guy.
 

EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
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The Carpenter news is a little disappointing, but good deal for him.

Yankees need another lefty bat. One that can play LF would be nice.
 

Jack Rabbit Slim

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The Yankees do.

Maybe they'd trade IKF for one of those guys though.
That was somewhat tongue-in-cheek since it would never happen, but I think it is far closer than what you offer.

BTV has IKF at 0.8, essentially no value.

Peraza - 27.8

Houck - 18.5
Verdugo - 6.7
Total - 25.2

Add in that Volpe is a better prospect at the same position and you could see the makings of a trade if the teams weren't direct rivals.
 

EvilEmpire

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Add in that Volpe is a better prospect at the same position and you could see the makings of a trade if the teams weren't direct rivals.
IKF was tongue-in-cheek too.

Peraza can play multiple IF positions. For that matter, I think Volpe can as well. So one isn't necessarily blocking the other. And of course Peraza is a little ahead of Volpe and the Yankees want a SS with better upside than IKF for this next season. And Peraza has that upside.

So no, I doubt the Yankees would trade him to the Red Sox for that package even if they weren't a rival. Verdugo is nothing special and the Yankees are solid in the bullpen and haven't had a hard time finding or developing new arms for it.
 

Murderer's Crow

Dragon Wangler 216
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Jul 15, 2005
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That was somewhat tongue-in-cheek since it would never happen, but I think it is far closer than what you offer.

BTV has IKF at 0.8, essentially no value.

Peraza - 27.8

Houck - 18.5
Verdugo - 6.7
Total - 25.2

Add in that Volpe is a better prospect at the same position and you could see the makings of a trade if the teams weren't direct rivals.
There's a reason beyond BTV that you don't see top 100 prospects with 6 years of control traded for slightly above average players. Would you trade Bello for an okay LFer?
 

Jack Rabbit Slim

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I think I will end it here as this isn't really worth debating, and I agree the Yankees wouldn't make that trade. I obviously missed the IKF joke, so that was the only reason for posting the BTV values.

There's a reason beyond BTV that you don't see top 100 prospects with 6 years of control traded for slightly above average players. Would you trade Bello for an okay LFer?
You seem to be glossing over the 5 years of control over a pitcher who, while never a top prospect, has put up pretty good numbers in the big leagues.
 

simplicio

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If Houck had demonstrated he could stick as a starter, I think it would be a very different conversation. As is, his role is a bit nebulous and it would be a massive risk to trade a guy like Peraza for a Houck-headlined package when he could just be a (quite good) reliever. I honestly think BTV currently overvalues him a bit, given that ambiguity.
 

natpastime162

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Slept through that, I need to catch up. I’m OK, I think Cashman is shooting higher (Reynolds?).
Have we heard anything since the Pirates began testing the waters with that “Soto-type package” pipe-dream a few weeks ago? His deal is like 7M next year and after that still has 2 (I think) years of team control remaining. Reynolds seems unlikely (for anyone) at the right now. I know things can change quickly but unless that something is the Pirates FO it’s hard to imagine the price coming down to a level Cashman, and most other GMs for that matter, would find acceptable.
 

Sad Sam Jones

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If the Pirates follow the A's Sean Murphy playbook, they'll ask for a ridiculous package the rest of the off-season and at the trade deadline, then trade him next winter for a really underwhelming package to a team that already has three good outfielders.
 

jon abbey

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Have we heard anything since the Pirates began testing the waters with that “Soto-type package” pipe-dream a few weeks ago? His deal is like 7M next year and after that still has 2 (I think) years of team control remaining. Reynolds seems unlikely (for anyone) at the right now. I know things can change quickly but unless that something is the Pirates FO it’s hard to imagine the price coming down to a level Cashman, and most other GMs for that matter, would find acceptable.
Yeah, I’m just guessing, but I think if Cashman is willing to include Dominguez (and I think he is), that the rest could be worked out. Reynolds dropped off last year and is going to really start to lose value if he doesn’t start off next year hot. I’d personally probably prefer NY just give the guys they have a chance and keep the stud prospects, but I think Cashman is really going for it right now.
 

Tokyo Sox

Baka Gaijin
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There

jon abbey

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The AL West is definitely getting tougher overall in between the awesome Astros and the awful A’s, all three other teams are making big pushes. The Angels are very likely going to lose Ohtani so this is their year if ever.
 

simplicio

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I assume that's max total value of contracts given out, so Correa's "3 year" deal is like a third of that.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I'm surprised to see that Twins have outspent the Red Sox over the last three offseasons.

View: https://twitter.com/BetweenTheNums/status/1605562652327120896?s=20&t=E3QLhXxkuWo1DyX-LDdsrQ
Kind of an arbitrarily chosen comparison though. Sox have spent more than the Twins on total payroll in those three years, in large part because they made a bunch of heavy commitments just the season before the years in question (specifically extensions to Bogaerts, Sale, and Eovaldi).
 

dhappy42

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Kind of an arbitrarily chosen comparison though. Sox have spent more than the Twins on total payroll in those three years, in large part because they made a bunch of heavy commitments just the season before the years in question (specifically extensions to Bogaerts, Sale, and Eovaldi).
Good point. On the other hand, the Red Sox currently rank 15th (just above the Tigers) in total 2023 payroll. Of course, they're not done spending on 2023 yet.
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/

I hadn't realized how big the MLB payroll disparity is. Mets top the list at $297,000,000 while the A's are at the bottom at $22,500,000.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Good point. On the other hand, the Red Sox currently rank 15th (just above the Tigers) in total 2023 payroll. Of course, they're not done spending on 2023 yet.
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/

I hadn't realized how big the MLB payroll disparity is. Mets top the list at $297,000,000 while the A's are at the bottom at $22,500,000.
Those totals also don't include arbitration eligibles who haven't agreed to terms yet. Cot's has the Mets at $384.3M including estimated salaries and benefits and the A's at $70.4M.