Odell Beckham Jr.

[Average Reds]

I saw those moments a little differently. Watching the video posted up-thread before reading other takes on it, I thought that Norman planted his feet, wound up, and walloped OBJ as hard as he could while OBJ went by. (Post #2, 1:04 and 1:16 in the video.) Seeing it that way, I thought OBJ's response seemed to be a heat-of-passion response to a violent moment. Of course that wouldn't justify what OBJ did, but it might make it a little more understandable.

But I haven't seen that interpretation in any of the commentary out there, so maybe I'm reading too much into what Norman did?

You are.

Norman slapped Beckham as he went by, but given his momentum, there's no physical effect. Norman's real crime was that he had embarrassed Beckham all day (to that point) and then sidestepped Beckham like a matador when he went for the big hit.

Beckham decided to "get even" by turning around, running full speed and launching himself at Norman's head after the play was over.

Would you feel the same way if OBJ had caught Norman flush, concussed him and put his playoff status in doubt?

The fact that OBJ 'missed' and didn't wind up seriously hurting Norman is immaterial. I get the point that it was a slowly-escalating build-up between those two guys, but the league needs to draw the line at launching yourself helmet-first at somebody's head (or, say, knees) outside the structure of the play with clear intent to hurt— there's enough of an epidemic of serious injuries as it is.

He clearly did catch him flush and I'd guess that Norman played the rest of the game with a concussion.

Or do we think it is coincidence that Beckham went from being essentially shut out before that hit to having a great quarter+ and almost leading the Giants back to victory?

 

[Stitch01]

The headshot was unacceptable and should have drawn an ejection.

Norman should have gotten a personal foul on the first series which might have stopped this nonsense from escalating.

 

[rodderick]

The spear was terrible but teams have been roughing him up all year, and he is not going to take it passively. If Gronk behaved similarly I doubt anyone here would be asking the NFL to suspend him for the Jets game.

But I did think the refs should have ejected Beckham during the game. If they are not going to eject a guy the first time he throws a punch at the very least the NFL should have a three strikes rule when it comes to personal fouls that are not incidental to the game.

If Gronk had done the same thing, it'd be an embarrassment. Boo fucking hoo, he's a great receiver in his second year in the league, if he thinks opposing players have been big meanies to him, either suck it up or quit football, because that will never stop.

 

[Devizier]

That was a cheap shot on the level of Warren Sapp blindsiding Chad Clifton. Fortunately, nothing terrible happened.

 

[MuppetAsteriskTalk]

Gronk wouldn't spear he would just toss him out of the club.

 

[BigJimEd]

Didn't see the game, only a couple highlights of the incidents. I wouldn't have a problem if OBJ was ejected but I also think the late hit in the Pitt-Denver game was cheaper.
OBJ connecting with the helmet made it more dangerous but I think that's as much luck as anything. Guy moves slightly and the other one could have easily been to the helmet.

Start ejecting players and those hits will become few and far between.

Punch should be an automatic ejection. Helps keep things from escalating.

 

[Scriblerus]

The NFL should take a page from MLB on this stuff. After the first exchange, warn both benches that their guys will be tossed if it happens again.

It's a violent game, sure, but there's no reason to let it escalate like that.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Shefter tweeting that ODB may get a game suspension.

 

[Remagellan]

You are.

Norman slapped Beckham as he went by, but given his momentum, there's no physical effect. Norman's real crime was that he had embarrassed Beckham all day (to that point) and then sidestepped Beckham like a matador when he went for the big hit.

Beckham decided to "get even" by turning around, running full speed and launching himself at Norman's head after the play was over.



He clearly did catch him flush and I'd guess that Norman played the rest of the game with a concussion.

Or do we think it is coincidence that Beckham went from being essentially shut out before that hit to having a great quarter+ and almost leading the Giants back to victory?

"Norman's real crime" was that he body-slammed Beckham earlier in the game and hurt Beckham's neck, which is what set him off according to what Beckham told Cris Carter after the game. There's no excusing Beckham's behavior, but seriously hurting a guy by tossing him down on his head is at least as predictable as concussing/seriously hurting a guy by launching yourself at someone so can we at least stop pretending that Norman didn't instigate this whole situation by behavior that was also outside of the rules?

Beckham will get suspended at least one game for what he did and his absence will cost the Giants any chance of upsetting the Vikings and keeping alive their slim playoff hopes. For his sake and the league's (since he's such an entertaining player to watch) hopefully that will teach Beckham that he needs to find a way control his emotions and not to overreact to this stuff, because teams will continue to do it to him if it proves to be an effective way of getting him off his game.

 

[troparra]

OBJ connecting with the helmet made it more dangerous but I think that's as much luck as anything.

Seriously? It would have been lucky if Beckham missed the helmet.

 

[bankshot1]

Every CB in the league is now going to trash-talk/goad Goldilocks out of his game.OBJ was a non-factor for 3 quarters yesterday.

Whether the NFL suspends him or not, (and they should) his act got real old yesterday, and real public. If he reacts remotely close to the shit he pulled yesterday, the refs will flag him out of the game.

 

[BigJimEd]

Seriously? It would have been lucky if Beckham missed the helmet.

Sorry I thought my next sentence made it clear I was talking it was lucky the hit by Pitt player (Wallace? ) didn't connect to the helmet.
Both were cheap shots. Wallace, I think that's who it was, was later and, imo, cheaper than OBJ.
I've seen plenty of cheap shots this year. Not that it should excuse OBJ in any way. If he gets suspended so be it. That's still on him.


Fwiw, Esiason was on the radio this morning saying this thing could get even uglier for all involved, OBJ, Norman and Finnegan. Says rumors he's hearing but hasn't been able to confirm yet is that it went way past any sort if normal trash talk.

 

[Average Reds]

"Norman's real crime" was that he body-slammed Beckham earlier in the game and hurt Beckham's neck, which is what set him off according to what Beckham told Cris Carter after the game. There's no excusing Beckham's behavior, but seriously hurting a guy by tossing him down on his head is at least as predictable as concussing/seriously hurting a guy by launching yourself at someone so can we at least stop pretending that Norman didn't instigate this whole situation by behavior that was also outside of the rules?

Beckham will get suspended at least one game for what he did and his absence will cost the Giants any chance of upsetting the Vikings and keeping alive their slim playoff hopes. For his sake and the league's (since he's such an entertaining player to watch) hopefully that will teach Beckham that he needs to find a way control his emotions and not to overreact to this stuff, because teams will continue to do it to him if it proves to be an effective way of getting him off his game.

This is what you are going for, that Norman was guilty of "seriously hurting a guy?" What is this, high school?

I have to admit that I'm just stunned that there are a bunch of OBJ fanboys here who are playing the "he started it" card to try and make it seem as if Beckham's actions are somehow understandable.

The game they are playing is violent and there are very few things that are considered unacceptable by everyone. Launching yourself at another player's head (from a player's blind side, no less) is one of those, and if you want to keep defending Beckham, you're a damn fool.

 

[Jack Sox]

Take this with a grain of salt, but it's apparently known in some circles that OBJ is gay. The You Can Play organization was present yesterday in a collaboration event with the Giants and the NFL. Couple that with what Esiason is saying on the radio about beyond the pale type trash talking, it could explain some of the out of character antics of Beckham yesterday. Also, if that's really the case, I highly doubt we see any type of suspension happening here.

 

[TheoShmeo]

OBJ is indeed ridiculous. Totally beyond the pale.

It's too bad because he's so outstanding.

I think Tom Coughlin might have sealed his fate -- or should have -- by not somehow controlling Beckham or at least making an effort to do so. Wouldn't most coaches have sat him down? Or am I being naïve given the importance of OBJ to the offense?

The officials didn't exactly cover themselves in glory, either, as has been noted by many.

 

[loshjott]

Certainly an interesting predicament for the NFL.

I'm sure they'll screw it up.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Take this with a grain of salt, but it's apparently known in some circles that OBJ is gay. The You Can Play organization was present yesterday in a collaboration event with the Giants and the NFL. Couple that with what Esiason is saying on the radio about beyond the pale type trash talking, it could explain some of the out of character antics of Beckham yesterday. Also, if that's really the case, I highly doubt we see any type of suspension happening here.

Why? If Norman and Finnegan were making homophobic slurs, that still doesn't excuse Beckham's behavior. In fact, if that's confirmed, then it should just increase their penalties but Beckham should absolutely sit a game for his behavior. Being gay, if that's true, doesn't give him the right for such reckless behavior.

 

[Jack Sox]

Why? If Norman and Finnegan were making homophobic slurs, that still doesn't excuse Beckham's behavior. In fact, if that's confirmed, then it should just increase their penalties but Beckham should absolutely sit a game for his behavior. Being gay, if that's true, doesn't give him the right for such reckless behavior.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but this is the Goodell led NFL we're talking about here and like loshjott said they're unlikely to get it right one way or another.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but this is the Goodell led NFL we're talking about here and like loshjott said they're unlikely to get it right one way or another.

On that we're certainly in agreement. But it's a very slippery slope for the NFL. Would be discouraging to know that he hears that kind of stuff every week.

 

[Average Reds]

Take this with a grain of salt, but it's apparently known in some circles that OBJ is gay. The You Can Play organization was present yesterday in a collaboration event with the Giants and the NFL. Couple that with what Esiason is saying on the radio about beyond the pale type trash talking, it could explain some of the out of character antics of Beckham yesterday. Also, if that's really the case, I highly doubt we see any type of suspension happening here.

Never heard that before being mentioned in this thread.

If the trash-talking included anti-gay slurs, it does not excuse his behavior, but I can understand the violence of his reaction. It brings to mind the (in)famous boxing match between Benny Paret and Emile Griffith.

 

[Three10toLeft]

Is any of this stuff an issue 20 years ago? 15 years ago? Even 10 years ago?

Everyone in here seems to be on their high horse, "there is no room for this in the game", blah blah blah. These two guys were mad at each other, and went at it. Big deal. OBJ acted like a bit of an idiot, and took a blatant cheap shot. But Josh Norman was clearly baiting OBJ and had to know that something like this was gonna be the result, especially after the refs failed to step in in the first place.

It almost feels like an episode of First Take in here with the righteous indignation to the disrespect to "the game". It's a barbaric game and two guys acted like barbarians. I'm stunned. If anything this is more of an indictment on the complete dumpster fire the refs have been this year.

If I were in charge of delegating punishment, I would issue stern warnings to OBJ and Norman, as well as every other player in the league, notifying them that the league will not tolerate any after the whistle scuffles or blatant cheap shots, and if the Refs observe any, an auotmatic ejection and one game suspension will be the result. End of story.

 

[DJnVa]

I could be wrong, but it appeared that helmet-on-helmet aspect of the hit could have been an unintended consequence of Howard stopping and lowering his frame as the ball carrier hit the ground. Obviously ODB was flying in helmet first with some clearly bad intentions. If the runner had been on his feet for one more yard, Howard may have been more upright (or in on the tackle) and, ultimately, taken a broadside shot at the shoulder as if it was a crack-back block on a return. Regardless, neither is good. Kid clearly lost control and has a lot to learn.

You keep saying Howard here---you mean Norman?

 

[Three10toLeft]

Never heard that before being mentioned in this thread.

If the trash-talking included anti-gay slurs, it does not excuse his behavior, but I can understand the violence of his reaction. It brings to mind the (in)famous boxing match between Benny Paret and Emile Griffith.

OBJ being gay has been the rumour for quite a while. I always chocked it up to internet gossip though.

 

[Remagellan]

I did not know the gay part of this before, but I would not be surprised if that was part of it. A friend of mine who is a huge Giants fan pointed out that Cortland Finnegan got into it with Beckham last year when he was with the Rams and believes he probably told Norman that the best way to get him off his game is to get him angry.

As for defending Beckham, I'm not, I'm just pointing out that Norman was not blameless in what happened yesterday, but you wouldn't know it from the Fox broadcast yesterday. There was one play in particular in which Norman shoved his hands into Beckham's grill and Beckham responded with a swing at Norman, and Aikman went on and on about how Beckham should have been flagged and there is no place in the game for it. If I were the ref, I would have flagged them both on that play. And for the record, I would have tossed Beckham after his third personal foul or the spear attempt, whichever one came first.

 

[bankshot1]

Is any of this stuff an issue 20 years ago? 15 years ago? Even 10 years ago?.

Darryl Stingley would probably think it should have been an issue. Of course that was about 40 years ago. Stingley (google him) was paralyzed by a cheap shot hit to the head by a Jack Tatum (google him too). Stingely died about 8 years ago, so I really don't know what he thinks, I'm just speculating.

OBJ launched a cheap shot/head shot that could have paralyzed Norman.
He should have been ejected yesterday. He should be suspended today.

 

[LondonSox]

I'm not surprised about his behavior only that it was so obvious and he got away with it mainly. At least on the field.
I have seen flashes of this over and over this year and have had a running debate with a giants fan friend about his diva/ douche level. I think I won.

He acted out in many games, he's always traps talking and acting out. I note I have NEVER see a player take his helmet off on the field so much, and never get flagged for it. He threw a punch in the bills game and again yesterday but the spear is ridiculous. It was ridiculous he got away with it. Live you could see Norman attempting to adjust his helmet as he was calmed down, he was concussed imo.

Once again I don't care if he was or wasn't. This should be a result based punishment (again). Intent or action should be what matters.

He's some talent. But that talent means people have to treat him as another player. I'm so sick of stars get away (occasionally literally) with murder. If he wasn't exceptional he would have been benched. Instead he catches the tying td and goes mental on the sidelines and everyone applauds.

No. Fuck that guy. You're a dick who happens to be good at football. I refuse to acclaim a guy who risks his team's result. Be a grown up then I'll discuss your play. Act like a little shit and be treated like one.

 

[dcmissle]

Highly recommended -- Francesa rant on WFAN.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

I'm still shocked he didn't get flagged for taunting on the last TD. He stands over and then steps,over him in celebration. That's called all the time.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Beckham gets to do whatever he wants on the field. He's the Madden cover boy.

 

[Old Fart Tree]

Yeah, I was shocked they didn't flag the step over, to say nothing of the spear.

 

[BigJimEd]

Sorry I thought my next sentence made it clear I was talking it was lucky the hit by Pitt player (Wallace? ) didn't connect to the helmet.
Both were cheap shots. Wallace, I think that's who it was, was later and, imo, cheaper than OBJ.
I've seen plenty of cheap shots this year. Not that it should excuse OBJ in any way. If he gets suspended so be it. That's still on him.

Actually just saw the Wallace hit on ESPN. Looks like he did catch him in the head. Knocked the defender out for the game. Complete cheap shot way after the play.

Need to suspend him as well if you are suspending Beckham.

 

[Kliq]

I don't know what "more elite" means. For his position, I don't know how much more elite of a start to a career you could have than what Odell has had. And that's before you get into the fun-to-watch aspect, which IMO isn't even close (and, personal preference and all, but I'm not letting Mike "footlong sweet onion chicken teriyaki" Trout anywhere near a discussion of cool athletes).

The points in this thread about his maturity and the needless spear play are well-taken. He plays a position where his ability to influence the game is inherently limited and he shouldn't be taking fifteen yarders. I won't complain if he gets a suspension.

But he's so goddamn entertaining that I just can't for the life of me understand all the hate, especially for what is a fairly isolated incident. I guess Manny and Moss are good comps, minus Manny's domestic violence. Those guys were fun. Sports should be fun. Odell is fun.



I define my generation very strictly, you're only in if you saw Spy Kids 3D in theaters. Steph would have been in high school. He's out.

The bolded is only because we've never met, if news hit the streets of a Turrable-Marciano power alliance the NYC elites would flock. Add ODB, Shkreli and Trump and we'd have a half-decent starting 5.

If you don't even know that much about him off the field, how can you claim his coolness? Because he put up some good stats? Antonio Brown is only a couple years older then him and he is BETTER than OBJ and he comes without the crazy.
A guy breaks some big plays and makes some nice catches and suddenly he is the coolest athlete. It is that kind of style over substance attitude that is RUINING our generation!

I have Spy Kids 3D: Game Over on VHS, you can come over to my parents house and watch sometime but only if your mom says it is okay because last time I invited someone over and there parents didn't know and my mom yelled at me.

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

If you don't even know that much about him off the field, how can you claim his coolness? Because he put up some good stats? Antonio Brown is only a couple years older then him and he is BETTER than OBJ and he comes without the crazy.
A guy breaks some big plays and makes some nice catches and suddenly he is the coolest athlete. It is that kind of style over substance attitude that is RUINING our generation!

I have Spy Kids 3D: Game Over on VHS, you can come over to my parents house and watch sometime but only if your mom says it is okay because last time I invited someone over and there parents didn't know and my mom yelled at me.

You can't take the ruining that generation angle here without also pointing out that Turrable's immediate defense of Beckham centered on coolness but also that "Norman was doing bad stuff too".

 

[Corsi]

Schefter:

In pregame warmups, at least one Panthers official, and possibly more, carried black baseball bats on to the field and were motioning with them towards Odell Beckham Jr. while making comments to him, per a league source. Norman later grabbed the black bat and was swinging it in pregame warmups – which, by the way, an NFL Films camera captured. Beckham, according to another source, felt threatened and it helped put him in a certain frame of mind. It does not excuse what he did during the course of the game, but it does explain what led up to the battle that still is the talk of the league today.

 

[RedOctober3829]

More excuses.

 

[yecul]

What the hell did I just read?

 

[rembrat]

So Little Odell, Cam's words, can go up against monsters and not feel threatened but a black baseball bat rattles him? That was the best they could do? Really?

 

[amarshal2]

I can't believe how easy is it to rattle ODB. The Panthers should face exactly zero punishment.

 

[GreyisGone]

I can't believe how easy is it to rattle ODB. The Panthers should face exactly zero punishment.

Now this is the hottest of hot takes.

 

[jablo1312]

Makes sense. He was so afraid the Panthers were gonna come after him with the bats he preemptively attacked Norman. That's what anyone would do in that situation.

Excuses. He's a clown.

 

[Jungleland]

Did people hate Beckham before yesterday? The helmet spear was bad and he deserves to be suspended. But across the football internet there's an almost weird level of pleasure in Odell getting some comeuppance today as if it's overdue. Even with the bills punch it's surprising how much hate there is for a player of his caliber.

 

[amarshal2]

Now this is the hottest of hot takes.

I mean, I guess if they find out that guys with black bats have been showing up at his door or they were holding his mom hostage, then sure, the Panthers can face some sort of culpability. But do you not think that players have, for decades, said and done all sorts of crazy shit on the field to get into each others heads?

 

[soxhop411]

 

[GreyisGone]

I mean, I guess if they find out that guys with black bats have been showing up at his door or they were holding his mom hostage, then sure, the Panthers can face some sort of culpability. But do you not think that players have, for decades, said and done all sorts of crazy shit on the field to get into each others heads?

I'll happily admit I'm wrong if you can show me recent instances of players showing up with weapons on the field to get into the other team's head.

 

[amarshal2]

I'll happily admit I'm wrong if you can show me recent instances of players showing up with weapons on the field to get into the other team's head.

Weapons? Now we've got a hot take. It's a piece of sporting equipment. Last I checked there's almost 5,000 baseball games a year. We're not talking guns and knives here. There's no report that he made a move to attack him with the bat.

 

[RedOctober3829]

They've brought out a bat in pregame many other times. This is just a Giants leak to try to make Beckham look better.

 

[GreyisGone]

Weapons? Now we've got a hot take. It's a piece of sporting equipment. Last I checked there's almost 5,000 baseball games a year. We're not talking guns and knives here. There's no report that he made a move to attack him with the bat.

I must have missed the part of football that uses a bat. And Schefter says "and were motioning with them towards Odell Beckham Jr. while making comments to him, per a league source. ". Which, admittedly is vague but is followed up by saying he felt threatened. And that there is video. So I suppose we will find out.

For the record, I think both he and Norman are douchebags.

 

[Kliq]

Yeah, my first question was whether this was something they did specifically for OBJ or is it a pregame ritual they do for every game?

They should have just stuck to a hype dance to scare the other team.

 

[RedOctober3829]

I must have missed the part of football that uses a bat. And Schefter says "and were motioning with them towards Odell Beckham Jr. while making comments to him, per a league source. ". Which, admittedly is vague but is followed up by saying he felt threatened. And that there is video. So I suppose we will find out.

For the record, I think both he and Norman are douchebags.

Teams bring items with them onto the field with regular occurance. Our team traveled around with a big stick all season and brought it on the field with us. It's a symbol(Bring The Wood so to speak).

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

Did people hate Beckham before yesterday? The helmet spear was bad and he deserves to be suspended. But across the football internet there's an almost weird level of pleasure in Odell getting some comeuppance today as if it's overdue. Even with the bills punch it's surprising how much hate there is for a player of his caliber.

Yes. I've been saying for a while that it was only a matter of time before Beckham did something stupid like this on the field. LondonSox in post #76 in this thread has a good run down of objectionable past behavior from Beckham. No one would deny that he is an unbelievable talent, but he acts like a punk on the field and has for quite some time. It's disappointed to see a player that talented conduct himself like a child.

I'm honestly most surprised that so many people are making excuses for him or acting like this whole thing was out of character for him. I like watching great players play football, I don't like great players acting ridiculous and making themselves look like buffoons. Beckham has consistently demonstrated that he wants to act like a douche.