October Game Thread

TFisNEXT

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So is this the worst managerial decision in playoff history? Given how high leverage the whole situation was (tie game extra innings of an elimination game), it has to be.

Unbelievable. Even though we all knew Buck was overrated, I had no idea he was this fucking stupid. You could at least understand Brach and O'Day even if you didn't agree with it. They are good pitchers and good matchups against the righty boppers of Toronto. But Jimenez is fucking terrible.
 

Rough Carrigan

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Probably a lot of managers who manage on a more emotional basis than Buck who wouldn't get some edges in the course of the full season that Buck does would, nevertheless, never make such a dumb move on mistaken principle that Buck did.
 

mikeford

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I hate that Yankee shitstain Buck Showalter with a fiery passion so it brings me great joy to watch him deep-six his career in such a public and hilarious fashion.
 

Hendu for Kutch

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Feels like when Jimy pitched Schourek in elimination game in 98 instead of Pedro on short rest.
No, this was way worse. You had to win 2 games in that series, you can only get Pedro for one, so you might as well get fully rested Pedro. You may disagree, but the logic is defensible.

There was no promise of another game here for either team. You only had to win one inning and it was over.
 

JohntheBaptist

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It wasn't even Ugueth Urbina or Armando Benitez he's holding back. It was a guy on a historically dominant season.

He was such a cock about it in the PC too. (After he answered to ZB's health and not "wtf was he?") REPORTER: "Well is it just the philosophical thing of not using your closer in a tie game on the road?"

BS: [Bunch of thousand yard stare nothingspeak] "...so how's that for 'philosophical'?"

Get used to the questions, Einstein.
 

TFisNEXT

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No, this was way worse. You had to win 2 games in that series, you can only get Pedro for one, so you might as well get fully rested Pedro. You may disagree, but the logic is defensible.

There was no promise of another game here for either team. You only had to win one inning and it was over.
Ironically, IIRC Shoerek didn't give up any runs anyway and the Sox got completely shut down. (1-0 final I think?)

But yeah, that decision was totally minor in comparison to tonight. A single batter can end your season at that point and there was no game 2 or game 3 to "save" Britton for. Instead, he saved him for an inning that would never come.

The weird thing about it too is that Britton is fucking nasty efficient too. He prob could have pitched 3 innings. Certainly 2. You do that and hope Liriano hangs one against Machado or Trumbo.
 

Bergs

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Buck fucked that up so badly that I now think John Farrell is a good manager. Also, I like Marcus Stroman.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Hell, I am not even remotely close to being an O's fan and I am livid on their behalf. The O'Day move instead of Britton was sketchy but I could buy into it. But you are in an elimination game in extras against the top of the card of a powerful line-up and you choose a guy who is essentially hanging on in the league by a thread versus a guy who allowed four...yes four, fucking runs in 67 innings pitched. Britton's WHIP was was ~50% lower than Jimenez. What the fucking fuck? It boggles the mind. We are seriously looking into the abyss with this one...
 

Ananti

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Britton is among the top 5 pitchers mentioned in the AL Cy Young discussion. He finished with the lowest ERA in the history of baseball for a minimum of 50 IP. At the absolute latest how was he not brought in to face EE? He should have pitched the 9th and 10th. This may actually be worse than Grady Little. He's getting skewered all over the internet. What a complete moron.
There is no way this is worse than Grady Little, Little turned an almost sure win into a loss. At worst Buck lost a 50/50 game.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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There is no way this is worse than Grady Little, Little turned an almost sure win into a loss. At worst Buck lost a 50/50 game.
I agree with this but its close. There is simply no way you leave a pitcher of Britton's caliber out of this game. He had to use him, he got away with cheating death in earlier innings and this was the perfect place with Travis, Donaldson and Encarnacion coming up. But Ubaldo Jimenez who would be out of baseball next year (and still might be) were he not owed another $13mm was the call.

Edit: $13mm
 

Hee Sox Choi

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This is the single-worst managerial decision I've ever seen in the post-season and in an elimination game. Brach, OK, O'Day, now you're gambling, but they both paid off and would have looked brilliant had he went to Britton next. What a horrible decision. I'm not sure if there's anything even close to this. At least Grady stuck with a tired PEDRO MARTINEZ instead of Ubaldo. Unbelievable.
 

scottyno

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There is no way this is worse than Grady Little, Little turned an almost sure win into a loss. At worst Buck lost a 50/50 game.
Grady left one of the best pitchers of all time on the mound, Buck left Ubaldo on the mound
 

Ananti

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Grady left one of the best pitchers of all time on the mound, Buck left Ubaldo on the mound
Pedro's numbers after 100 pitches were not all that great, and with a 3 run lead there was no reason to push him.

This was a tie game, even if he uses Britton and he pitches a scoreless 11th, the O's are still no better than 50/50 to win it.
 

Noah

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Feels like when Jimy pitched Schourek in elimination game in 98 instead of Pedro on short rest.
Yeah, this is only analogous if Pedro were able to pitch both games 4 and 5.

Edit: and even then, not really.
 

Bergs

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Recency bias.

I was listening to the Toronto radio feed and they assumed the Briton hurt himself in the bullpen - was the only obvious reason why he wasn't used.
Why in the hell would Buck be willing to do this in a regular season game but not a must win play in game? Boggles the mind.
Sox and Rocks' post is why I said "wow"..the fact that Buck did the exact right thing and had it work 2 months ago and followed that up with tonight's dumbfuckery..."wow"
 

Hee Sox Choi

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This was a tie game, even if he uses Britton and he pitches a scoreless 11th, the O's are still no better than 50/50 to win it.
Well, what about if you let Britton pitch a 2nd inning? Or maybe even a 3rd? That's got to improve your chances since you're facing Liriano.
 

scottyno

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Pedro's numbers after 100 pitches were not all that great, and with a 3 run lead there was no reason to push him.

This was a tie game, even if he uses Britton and he pitches a scoreless 11th, the O's are still no better than 50/50 to win it.
Ubaldos stats after any number of pitches are probably worse and he got left in with multiple men on vs the heart of the order where any hit ends the season
 

Sampo Gida

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It occurs to me that all managers, given enough time, go insane. Some get their faster than others (Little). Bucks there now. Maybe he gets promoted to GM now and they show Duquette the door
 

Ananti

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Ubaldos stats after any number of pitches are probably worse and he got left in with multiple men on vs the heart of the order where any hit ends the season
If you can't grasp the concept of blowing a game that one had a 90% chance to win is worse than blowing a game one had a 50% chance to win (at best). I don't know what else there is I can say.
 

capecodjr41

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There is no way this is worse than Grady Little, Little turned an almost sure win into a loss. At worst Buck lost a 50/50 game.
True the Sox were up by three runs. But it was Pedro a sure fire HOFer that he went too long with instead of calling on Mike Timlin. Everyone except Little knew Pedro was done but it was still Pedro, one of the greatest ever. Buck chose a washed up starter who was converted to a reliever like yesterday ahead of the most elite closer in baseball. As Dejesus said he already cheated death in the 9th and now even with Jiminez giving up 2 straight hits he still held Britton back. It looks like Britton would have been the last man out of the pen if Baltimore hadn't taken a lead. This has to be one of the worst strategies in playoff history.
 

Ananti

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True the Sox were up by three runs. But it was Pedro a sure fire HOFer that he went too long with instead of calling on Mike Timlin. Everyone except Little knew Pedro was done but it was still Pedro, one of the greatest ever. Buck chose a washed up starter who was converted to a reliever like yesterday ahead of the most elite closer in baseball. As Dejesus said he already cheated death in the 9th and now even with Jiminez giving up 2 straight hits he still held Britton back. It looks like Britton would have been the last man out of the pen if Baltimore hadn't taken a lead. This has to be one of the worst strategies in playoff history.
No one is arguing that it was a horrible decision, one of the worst ever, just not as bad as Grady Little's.
 

gedman211

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Fortunately, he will keep his job. We'll still have Buck to kick around next year!
 

gedman211

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I hope the Rangers can make it a series. The Jays starting staff is peaking at the right time.
 

Al Zarilla

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Finally saw Britton interviewed. Looks like a college kid. Said he was just disappointed he didn't get into the game; had told coaches (didn't say manager) he doesn't care if it's a save situation or not, if he's the right or best guy for a situation (duh!) please put him in. Refreshing. Didn't throw anybody (Buck) under the bus. Seems like a real nice kid and too bad he plays for B'more.
 

wilked

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I'm not rooting for either of these teams.

Best outcome to me is something that causes great heartache for one of the fanbases.

No hitter loss would be a good one. Monster 9th inning rally another. Lose the game on a blown and non-reviewable call another.

I'll keep thinking of more
I can see now I was being nearly creative enough.

"O's lose in extra innings with their star closer being held back by mananger waiting for a safe opportunity"
 

jon abbey

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Some good stories out already, but I really liked this lead by Jeff Passan:

"It makes no sense. It didn’t make any sense before it happened, and it didn’t make any sense as it was happening, and it didn’t make any sense in the immediate aftermath. It won’t make sense today, won’t make sense tomorrow, not next week, next month or next year. There is but one explanation for Buck Showalter’s all-time screw-up Tuesday night, and it is this: Even the smartest men are capable of ineffable stupidity."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-colossal-inexplicable-mistake-of-buck-showalter-081733150.html
 

Average Reds

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As I think back to the end of the game last night, what impresses me the most is not the stupidity of bringing in Jimenez, but how quickly Karma decided to bite Buck in the ass for it. I mean, what did he throw out there? 6 pitches total? And every swing was solid contact until he gave up the rocket.

Edit: He threw 5 pitches total. Even more awesome.
 
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jon abbey

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As I think back to the end of the game last night, what impresses me the most is not the stupidity of bringing in Jimenez, but how quickly Karma decided to bite Buck in the ass for it. I mean, what did he throw out there? 6 pitches total? And every swing was solid contact until he gave up the rocket.

Awesome.
To be fair, he got away with using Duensing for an out before that. Brian Duensing!!
 

SoxinPA

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I like Jonah Keri, but did anyone else hear him on ESPN radio last night before the game? During a conversation about managers he made the statement that for the most part managers don't matter that much, that the only two he could imagine actually being able to win a game for their teams during the postseason were Bruce Bochy and...Buck Showalter.
Oops.