NY rotation 2015

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SeanBerry

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So Tanaka was lights out yesterday. I'm still on the boat of this is a guy that is broken and he won't be able to do this for an extended period of time this season before needing another month off or finally needing the surgery. 
 
I know Seattle is having major offense issues but Tanaka was dominant. 
 

cromulence

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SeanBerry said:
So Tanaka was lights out yesterday. I'm still on the boat of this is a guy that is broken and he won't be able to do this for an extended period of time this season before needing another month off or finally needing the surgery. 
 
I know Seattle is having major offense issues but Tanaka was dominant. 
 
I don't understand your boat at all. Broken guys don't pitch like that. Sure, he could get hurt and need TJ, but to say that at the moment he's "broken" is pretty silly IMO.
 

SeanBerry

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cromulence said:
 
I don't understand your boat at all. Broken guys don't pitch like that. Sure, he could get hurt and need TJ, but to say that at the moment he's "broken" is pretty silly IMO.
 
Well the guy has made 7 starts since July 9th of last year  and is just coming off the DL so I think your "silly" opinion is pretty fucking stupid IMO.
 

jon abbey

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Berry, don't bump this thread just to be belligerent and ignorant again. Did you see his velocity yesterday? If he's "broken" right now, so is every pitcher in baseball. 
 

jon abbey

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96 on his last pitch of the day, plenty of 94s and 95s before that:

 

cromulence

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SeanBerry said:
 
Well the guy has made 7 starts since July 9th of last year  and is just coming off the DL so I think your "silly" opinion is pretty fucking stupid IMO.
 
Ugh, and I liked you so much in the DeflateGate thread. Just coming off the DL = broken. OK.
 

SeanBerry

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cromulence said:
 
Ugh, and I liked you so much in the DeflateGate thread. Just coming off the DL = broken. OK.
 
I'm just busting balls. But I don't think it's off the mark to have serious questions about a guy who hasn't been able to stay on the field despite one dominant start.
 

jon abbey

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He had some very good starts before going on the DL too. You can have questions about any player, but questions about Tanaka made a lot more sense 24 hours ago then they do now. We'll see soon enough if he can keep it up, and I think there's still a chance they go to a six man rotation a la Mets when Nova is back within the month. 
 

cromulence

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SeanBerry said:
 
I'm just busting balls. But I don't think it's off the mark to have serious questions about a guy who hasn't been able to stay on the field despite one dominant start.
 
Right, and I said that he could easily get hurt and need TJ. Nobody knows. But to say that right now, at this moment, he's "broken" is foolish.
 
Just saw JA's post; think we've covered this now.
 

jon abbey

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Ivan Nova with his first rehab start tonight in Tampa. He breezed through the first two innings, then his third inning was as follows:
 
groundout (1 out)
error by the third baseman (1 out)
error by the second baseman (1 out)
force out grounder (2 outs)
error by the second baseman (2 outs)
groundout (3 outs)
 
So he had to get six groundouts in a row to get out of the inning, amazing only one run scored. Also worth noting is that the klutzy 2B is Gregorio Petit, also rehabbing. 
 

jon abbey

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RAB's report on Nova's start:

RHP Ivan Nova: 4.2 IP, 3 H, 2 R, 1 ER, 0 BB, 3 K, 12/0 GB/FB
— 55 of 72 pitches were strikes (76%)
--- he was on an 80-ish pitch limit in his first official minor league rehab start
--- he hit 94 mph on the gun according to Nick Flammia (https://twitter.com/TYRadioGuy/status/608048012569538563)
 

jon abbey

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Bryan Mitchell coming up as a sixth starter since NY is playing 20 straight days, maybe starting tomorrow. 
 
https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/611970470532022272
 

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Nova was awful tonight against Lehigh. 5 runs in 5 innings. 7 hits, 2 walks. 84 pitches. Hope he doesn't think he's ready.
 

jon abbey

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I guess there's a small chance he is bored at AAA, but I don't see how they can activate him without another start. Warren is their clear #3 at this point, I'm glad I don't have to make those decisions. 
 

jon abbey

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NY is activating Nova to start Wednesday and using a six man rotation for one turn through the rotation, presumably to see how Nova reacts to actual MLB competition. Girardi said he doesn't expect it to last longer than that, we'll see. 
 

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Will Pineda have an innings limit this year?  He is a strange case, having maxed out at 171 innings in 2011 and not having pitched more than 84 innings since (a mark he equaled during tonight's start).
 

jon abbey

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Yeah, they skipped him once already, they definitely have a number in mind. 
 

TheYaz67

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Looks like Nova had a good turn on his first game back today, so going to be some interesting rotation decisions coming up. 
 
NY Post wondering aloud the other day about why they are sticking with CC given his continued struggles.  Warren has been steady albeit not spectacular this season, any has not had any really disastrous starts that took them out of the game early - he has not allowed more than 4 ER in any of his 13 games this year.   CC has already had 4 starts where he allowed more than 4 ER in a game, and took the team out of all those games early.  NYY just 5-10 in his starts to date - can they make the postseason if they go something like 10-23 in his starts this season?
 

jon abbey

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Some of those Post writers are really bad, Davidoff and Kernan specifically, their columns often seem entirely based on the single game the night before.
 
Anyway, I'm not sure they really had a great chance to dump CC before right now, he's obviously getting paid a ton and they didn't know how Nova would come back until he actually did. CC looks pretty clearly like the 6th best option right now (maybe 7th if they gave Bryan Mitchell a shot), but is Warren the starter/CC the reliever or on the phantom DL a better combo than CC the starter/Warren the reliever?
 
Warren can singlehandedly transform the bullpen into an area of deep strength, especially once Miller is back. Shreve/Wilson/Warren/Betances/Miller is a very nice fivesome, so like I said the other day, I'm glad I don't have to make this decision.
 

SeanBerry

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Check out Tanaka's last 2 starts. Remember when I even had posts removed for insisting I wanted to see Tanaka make 12 healthy starts before I started ringing the bell on great he looked.
 
Luckily not every post was deleted. Of course some of this is very easy to find because no one posts in this graveyard of a forum.
 

jon abbey

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I love that you just start by being an asshole, you add so little to this site.
 
Yes, like every other pitcher in baseball, he has bad starts, and the last two have been terrible. Of course, he had five absolutely dominant ones (spanning the injury time) before then, and his velocity this weekend was just fine, so as before, you've added pretty much nothing to the discussion. Thanks for that! 
 

jon abbey

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I mean, seriously, if you have a point, make it explicitly and without being a dick simultaneously, or don't post here. 
 

SeanBerry

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No problem. At least someone is adding anything over here. You are such a shitty mod. Just awful.
 
Back to the matter at hand.. you really think Tanaka is just in a slump? I honestly don't. This is why I said the 12 start thing earlier. I may have over sold him.
 
With long rest, the weakened elbow builds up strength but then just wears down again. It's just not velocity here (even though you keep beating that drum so hard). It's confidence in pitch selection, command, etc. There are a lot of elements at play here. It seems like he starts to wear down after a handful of starts.
 
This is one hell of a slump now. He's made 9 starts and he's barely a league average pitcher. I know he's much better than that. There is something wrong with him.
 
But what do I know? I am just an asshole that adds so little to the site.
 

jon abbey

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I mean, Pineda had a 7 ERA in June before yesterday, King Felix has gotten shelled a few times recently, the fixation on Tanaka by so many people (not just you) is amazing. Yes, his last two starts are very problematic and it will be a big problem if he doesn't figure it out again, but there is no legit reason to think it's because of his slight tear, which I guess is your point. 
 

jon abbey

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SeanBerry said:
No problem. At least someone is adding anything over here. You are such a shitty mod. Just awful.
 
Back to the matter at hand.. you really think Tanaka is just in a slump? I honestly don't. This is why I said the 12 start thing earlier. I may have over sold him.
 
With long rest, the weakened elbow builds up strength but then just wears down again. It's just not velocity here (even though you keep beating that drum so hard). It's confidence in pitch selection, command, etc. There are a lot of elements at play here. It seems like he starts to wear down after a handful of starts.
 
This is one hell of a slump now. He's made 9 starts and he's barely a league average pitcher. I know he's much better than that. There is something wrong with him.
 
But what do I know? I am just an asshole that adds so little to the site.
 
That's the last one you get, next time you are an asshole in this forum, to me or anyone else, it will be deleted again. 
 

jon abbey

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SeanBerry said:
 
Back to the matter at hand.. you really think Tanaka is just in a slump? I honestly don't. This is why I said the 12 start thing earlier. I may have over sold him.
 
With long rest, the weakened elbow builds up strength but then just wears down again. It's just not velocity here (even though you keep beating that drum so hard). It's confidence in pitch selection, command, etc. There are a lot of elements at play here. It seems like he starts to wear down after a handful of starts.
 
This is one hell of a slump now. He's made 9 starts and he's barely a league average pitcher. I know he's much better than that. There is something wrong with him.
 
 
Then how do you explain the five starts before the previous two?
 

SeanBerry

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jon abbey said:
I mean, Pineda had a 7 ERA in June before yesterday, King Felix has gotten shelled a few times recently, the fixation on Tanaka by so many people (not just you) is amazing. Yes, his last two starts are very problematic and it will be a big problem if he doesn't figure it out again, but there is no legit reason to think it's because of his slight tear, which I guess is your point. 
 
The "fixation" is because he's pitching with a torn elbow. That's a big deal. Pineda has his own issues but I think those are tied more to general fatigue from pitching a full season for the first time in years.
 
Felix Hernandez has been getting hit hard. the past month. There might be something there? It hasn't been in consistent starts but it's worth watching.
 
Why are you so dismissive on this topic?
 

jon abbey

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SeanBerry said:
 
The "fixation" is because he's pitching with a torn elbow. That's a big deal. Pineda has his own issues but I think those are tied more to general fatigue from pitching a full season for the first time in years.
 
Felix Hernandez has been getting hit hard. the past month. There might be something there? It hasn't been in consistent starts but it's worth watching.
 
Why are you so dismissive on this topic?
 
I'm not being dismissive at all, I never was. I do think there's more of a focus on Tanaka from start to start because of his elbow than there should be, and again you're certainly not the only one to do so. Girardi joked this weekend that he will be asked about Tanaka's health until he dies, I think he just had two really shitty starts for whatever reason. If the previous five didn't happen, I'd obviously be much more worried, and if it keeps going, it's obviously a major problem. 
 

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The most interesting part of that Post story, to me, was when Tanaka said he had one bad stretch in Japan where he went 2-3 months without a victory. We are judging him over here on how he began the 2014 season, exceeding all of our expectations and fulfilling our fondest dreams. The reality is, he's probably a nice No. 2 starter who knows how to pitch and has a nasty splitter when he is on his game.
 
Severino is our next dreamboat starter who we hope will be a No. 1. Will the Yankees roll the dice and try to make him a factor in 2015 until he hits a realistic innings limit? Kind of doubt it.
 

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jon abbey said:
 
I'm not being dismissive at all, I never was. I do think there's more of a focus on Tanaka from start to start because of his elbow than there should be, and again you're certainly not the only one to do so. Girardi joked this weekend that he will be asked about Tanaka's health until he dies, I think he just had two really shitty starts for whatever reason. If the previous five didn't happen, I'd obviously be much more worried, and if it keeps going, it's obviously a major problem. 
You are dismissive. You always have been in here.

You delete posts at the same time as calling the posts out with inflammatory language that is nominally the reason you're deleting them.

I don't even like Sean Berry but he's right - your actions as a mod are to kill off anything that doesn't fit right in line with either your opinion or your opinion on the approved way to debate your opinion.

In short, you think this is your blog, not a public message board. And right now it's about as interesting. Which is why you're the only one posting here.
 

jon abbey

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Just post about the Yankees or don't post, no one needs the meta commentary of someone contributing nothing to this section. If you have a problem with the way I mod, please PM a Dope and complain, but don't put it in here. Thank you. 
 

SydneySox

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That's not meta commentary, it's commentary.

I read this forum - as in I click on it - and literally the best things that happen to it are when people challenge you. I say you because you're the only one who posts here. When your world view on the Yankees is challenged it generates actual message board substance.

You do need my contribution. You need absolutely anyone's contribution. But while you hold the line on 'all posts pass the censorship review of JonAbbey', this will continue to be a forum devoid of anything but your own personal thoughts on the Yankees.
 

ThePrideofShiner

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Sucks for Warren that he got pulled, but I think it is the best move. Sabathia hasn't been very good this year, but I don't see how they have any choice but to roll the dice with him every five days.
 
As for Tanaka, I want to see what happens in more starts before declaring his decision not have surgery a bust.
 

EvilEmpire

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All this because Tanaka has had two bad starts in a row? The case for attributing it to his previous elbow injury is as weak as weak can get. We know lots of guys pitch successfully with partial tears and we know Tanaka's is small.


Of course it is and will remain a concern. It is for a lot of pitchers.
 

SeanBerry

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It's not just 2 bad starts in a row. Look at the season so far in total:
 
-Has an ERA+ of 101.
-His FIP has jumped a whole run.
-His ERA has jumped over a run.
-He had to spend time on the DL
-Pitching with a tear in his elbow.
 
He hasn't been the same pitcher since last year.
 

EvilEmpire

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You do need my contribution. You need absolutely anyone's contribution. But while you hold the line on 'all posts pass the censorship review of JonAbbey', this will continue to be a forum devoid of anything but your own personal thoughts on the Yankees.
This is nonsense. Look at what JA is posting in this forum. 90% of it isn't analysis or worldview -- it's providing updates on the day-to-day happenings of the Yankees. Who is brought up or sent down. Updates from the minor leagues. Links to articles from various Yankee blogs. He puts in a ton of effort into keeping people informed on what is happening with the Yankees. While it is true that there aren't a lot of Yankee fans around here, his efforts still get thousands of views. He's keeping people informed. I'd guess mostly Red Sox fans who are curious about the enemy and don't want to have to dig around on Yankee blogs. Those are great contributions that take a lot of work. Certainly more than anyone else makes.
 

SeanBerry

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Why do we need to be informed? That's not the point. This is a message board. It's for discussion. No one comes here for Yankee news. If anything, all the news posts just clutter the board and bring down the prospect of discussion.
 
That's not to say these news topics shouldn't be discussed but just posting some guy got called up? Why? 
 

jon abbey

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SeanBerry said:
It's not just 2 bad starts in a row. Look at the season so far in total:
 
-Has an ERA+ of 101.
-His FIP has jumped a whole run.
-His ERA has jumped over a run.
-He had to spend time on the DL
-Pitching with a tear in his elbow.
 
He hasn't been the same pitcher since last year.
 
You really need to look at the starts individually, though. He's only made 8 so far, the bad Opening Day one which he probably wasn't quite ready to pitch yet, the next five which were collectively Cy Young quality, and the last two which have been horrendous. I don't know what's going to happen next obviously, but I think looking at the individual games is more telling than the collective in this case.
 

jon abbey

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SeanBerry said:
Why do we need to be informed? That's not the point. This is a message board. It's for discussion. No one comes here for Yankee news. If anything, all the news posts just clutter the board and bring down the prospect of discussion.
 
That's not to say these news topics shouldn't be discussed but just posting some guy got called up? Why? 
 
To inform and hopefully start discussion? 
 

EvilEmpire

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It's not just 2 bad starts in a row. Look at the season so far in total:
 
-Has an ERA+ of 101.
-His FIP has jumped a whole run.
-His ERA has jumped over a run.
-He had to spend time on the DL
-Pitching with a tear in his elbow.
 
He hasn't been the same pitcher since last year.
Come on. We don't even know what his true baseline of talent is in this league. His results from last year were awesome, and I'd be very happy if that is that the level of success we can expect across his career, but we don't know if that is the case. Batters adjust and a lot of his success is based on pitches out of the strike zone. When guys can lay of his splitter he can get into trouble pretty quickly. I don't think we have enough sample size from last year or now to really know how good he is or can be. He just doesn't have a lot of innings under his belt. He wouldn't be the first young pitcher to start his career with a bang and then struggle as hitters make adjustments. Hopefully he can make adjustments too.

Anyway, I think there are all kinds of reasons his isn't performing as well as last year. Injury concerns are just one of many, and the one I'm worried the least about right now.
 

jon abbey

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Exactly. One thing we learned last year is that his fastball even at peak velocity is often very straight and hittable, as Mike Napoli will be the first to recall. It's easy to forget he is still just 26. 
 

EvilEmpire

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Why do we need to be informed? That's not the point. This is a message board. It's for discussion. No one comes here for Yankee news. If anything, all the news posts just clutter the board and bring down the prospect of discussion.
 
That's not to say these news topics shouldn't be discussed but just posting some guy got called up? Why?
If it isn't for you, that's fine. There are lots of different kinds of fans on SOSH. These topics get thousands of views, so people are reading them.
 
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