NY Knicks 2024-25: OG and the Wild-KATs

Murderer's Crow

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">By trading out of No. 26 and stashing Pacome Dadiet - and replacing those picks by rostering two 2nd round picks on rookie minimum - Knicks could save a total of roughly $3 million in team salary for 2024-25, per <a href="https://twitter.com/YossiGozlan?ref_src=twsrc^tfw">@YossiGozlan</a>. Not clear yet if Dadiet will be stashed yet.</p>&mdash; Ian Begley (@IanBegley) <a href="View: https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1806162694296256795?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
">June 27, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

lovegtm

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@radsoxfan said something like this already, but the biggest 2 takeaways for me are
  • other teams see the Celtics as the team to beat, and are trying to construct their rosters to avoid the issues that brought down Dallas (secondary guys who can't shoot/play in space, too many defensive target points)
  • some teams see a blueprint they can copy: playmakers at every non-C position, focus less on stars and more on what your lineup as a whole can do after it creates advantages
 

the moops

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We won't know until Hartenstein signs here or somewhere else, but I really don't think the Knicks will start the season with Mitchell Robinson as their starter given how he hasn't shown the ability to handle the starting role and can barely score. I don't think anything happens tonight but I do think there's one more move that could come. I hope that move doesn't involve Randle but I wouldn't be totally shocked to see them go after whoever may be available.
Over the past 4 seasons, when available, Robinson has started 170 out of the 193 games he has appeared in. New York seems plenty comfortable starting him.
 

Murderer's Crow

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Over the past 4 seasons, when available, Robinson has started 170 out of the 193 games he has appeared in. New York seems plenty comfortable starting him.
3 of those seasons were non-contention years and he played in 30 games last year. They don't want him as the starter of this team.
 

the moops

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3 of those seasons were non-contention years and he played in 30 games last year. They don't want him as the starter of this team.
They finished in 4th and 5th place in two of those "non-contention" years and won a playoff round. They are 47-32 over the past two season with him starting. They may not want him as a starter but aren't they likely stuck with him in that role?
 

Murderer's Crow

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They finished in 4th and 5th place in two of those "non-contention" years and won a playoff round. They are 47-32 over the past two season with him starting. They may not want him as a starter but aren't they likely stuck with him in that role?
TBD, right? If they have no choice, they'll have him at the 5 with Randle rotating there occasionally. But he's too injury prone and if this team wants to be a contender, he's the obvious weak link.
 

jon abbey

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Robinson is a bad matchup for teams with a 5 who can shoot 3s (Porzingis, Lopez, Towns) but on the other hand, he barely played with Anunoby and obv hasn't played at all with Bridges yet, those two should wildly change the collective defense.
 

bigq

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The Knicks may be a Celtics injury away from being the favorite in the East. I like what they have done to become highly competitive. I'm looking forward to seeing how the match up against Boston. Next season can't start soon enough.
 

Senator Donut

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@radsoxfan said something like this already, but the biggest 2 takeaways for me are
  • other teams see the Celtics as the team to beat, and are trying to construct their rosters to avoid the issues that brought down Dallas (secondary guys who can't shoot/play in space, too many defensive target points)
  • some teams see a blueprint they can copy: playmakers at every non-C position, focus less on stars and more on what your lineup as a whole can do after it creates advantages
Your second point is spot-on. Other teams don't just want to copy the Celtics because they are the most recent champions, but also because they posses a workable blueprint. You can't really look at Denver and say "we should acquire a MVP-level center with elite passing" because Jokic has a unique skillet that's simply unavailable. Same goes for recent champions like the Warriors or Bucks. However, you can squint at Tatum and Brown and go after players like Bridges or Caruso that look like lower-quality facsimiles.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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The Knicks are going to generate a lot of hype next year, and I'm here for it.
The Knicks may be a Celtics injury away from being the favorite in the East. I like what they have done to become highly competitive. I'm looking forward to seeing how the match up against Boston. Next season can't start soon enough.
I don’t necessarily subscribe to or care about the common refrain you hear a lot that the league is better when the Knicks and Lakers are good but I do agree that it’s certainly more interesting to have the Knicks hype connected to a genuinely very good team as opposed to some of the hype machines of the Melo years.

The funny thing to me is that of course my heart/gut wants me to be annoyed or whatever but Brunson’s whistle-hunting aside it is a likable group of players.
 

lovegtm

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Your second point is spot-on. Other teams don't just want to copy the Celtics because they are the most recent champions, but also because they posses a workable blueprint. You can't really look at Denver and say "we should acquire a MVP-level center with elite passing" because Jokic has a unique skillet that's simply unavailable. Same goes for recent champions like the Warriors or Bucks. However, you can squint at Tatum and Brown and go after players like Bridges or Caruso that look like lower-quality facsimiles.
It's not that they seem like Brown/Tatum; they seem like DWhite/Jrue.
 

radsoxfan

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It's not that they seem like Brown/Tatum; they seem like DWhite/Jrue.
lol yeah, if you squint at Jrue and DWhite you can convince yourself you're getting similar value players with Bridges and Caruso.

You have to do some serious squinting to make them look like Tatum/Brown.
 

Euclis20

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lol yeah, if you squint at Jrue and DWhite you can convince yourself you're getting similar value players with Bridges and Caruso.

You have to do some serious squinting to make them look like Tatum/Brown.
I don't think it takes any squinting at all to put Bridges in the same group as Jrue and White. His contract, age, durability and offensive ceiling might make him more valuable than those guys, if still far below the price paid (and we already know that Jrue and White fit perfectly with Boston, we're mostly assuming that Bridges can fit in as seamlessly with the Knicks). Those three guys occupy the space somewhere between above average player and all-star, they can do everything, and are probably slightly overqualified for their current roles.

Caruso is pure 3 and D, cannot create his own offense, and has been somewhat injury prone throughout his career. The benefit of the guys above is that they can step in and give you whatever you need, Alex Caruso cannot do that. He's been romanticized because he was a solid rotation player for the Lakers and they won a title, but he's a solid level or two behind Jrue/White/Bridges.
 

jon abbey

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So many trades that it's hard to keep track but NY evidently traded #51 (which they got yesterday) to Phoenix at some point for a BOS 2028 second rounder (protected 31-45). Then they traded #40 for #51 (the same pick) and #56.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I don't think it takes any squinting at all to put Bridges in the same group as Jrue and White. His contract, age, durability and offensive ceiling might make him more valuable than those guys, if still far below the price paid (and we already know that Jrue and White fit perfectly with Boston, we're mostly assuming that Bridges can fit in as seamlessly with the Knicks). Those three guys occupy the space somewhere between above average player and all-star, they can do everything, and are probably slightly overqualified for their current roles.

Caruso is pure 3 and D, cannot create his own offense, and has been somewhat injury prone throughout his career. The benefit of the guys above is that they can step in and give you whatever you need, Alex Caruso cannot do that. He's been romanticized because he was a solid rotation player for the Lakers and they won a title, but he's a solid level or two behind Jrue/White/Bridges.
People seriously discount what BOS has built. They basically have five all-NBA caliber players. That's a pretty hard formula to mimic. While neither Jrue nor DW have been voted to all-NBA teams, both of them have been talked about as all-NBA caliber and frankly if they wanted to go somewhere they could put up POINTZ, they probably could be all-NBA. Same with KP.

I know teams are trying to do this - and frankly, it's not that unusual to get a scorer and combine them with 3&D wings - but BOS's lineup is historically good.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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NY's roster in 2021-22, ordered by most minutes played:

Julius Randle
RJ Barrett
Evan Fournier
Alec Burks
Mitchell Robinson
Kemba Walker
Derrick Rose
Immanuel Quickley
Nerlens Noel
Taj Gibson

Also Grimes, Toppin, Cam Reddish, Jericho Sims (a veteran at this point!!), and Deuce McBride.

Randle, Mitch, and Sims/Deuce the only ones still around out of those 15, just two years later.
BOS's 2021-22 by top 10 in minutes. Things really change in the NBA.

JT
Smart
JB
Horford
Grant
TL
Schroder
Richardson
PP
Romeo.

(DW was 11th; Nesmith was 12th).
 

jon abbey

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Anyone know any thoughtful Knicks boards? A good Discord one, maybe? I mostly read Knicks on Reddit and Knickerblogger, but a couple of indefatigable trolls have ruined the latter for a while now.
 

Murderer's Crow

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That's funny stuff. Sad to see IH go but he didn't leave for some skittles, that was much more than he could have made here.

Where does that leave the Knicks? Well, they need a better C eventually but the start, I'd guess they get the best backup to Mitch they can find while switching Randle in when they need more scoring.
 

Ed Hillel

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The starting lineup is going to be significantly less of a rebound problem than last season. But will they score more on those fewer possessions?
 

benhogan

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That's funny stuff. Sad to see IH go but he didn't leave for some skittles, that was much more than he could have made here.

Where does that leave the Knicks? Well, they need a better C eventually but the start, I'd guess they get the best backup to Mitch they can find while switching Randle in when they need more scoring.
Hartenstein was fun but that is an unnecessary overpay by OKC

The Knicks should go get Tillman on the cheap, he'll give you +defense.
 

jon abbey

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Hartenstein’s dad is half-Black, I think it was an ongoing joke within the team last year.
 

jon abbey

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I had not seen much of Precious Achiuwa before NY traded for him in the Anunoby deal, but he had some heroic stretches for NY down the stretch. Maybe Rose is targeting someone else (I don't see how they have the assets for Kessler without weakening themselves elsewhere) but I would be really happy to see a Woj Tweet about Achiuwa coming back.

View: https://twitter.com/sitenyk/status/1808111326708842859
 

OCST

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That's funny stuff. Sad to see IH go but he didn't leave for some skittles, that was much more than he could have made here.

Where does that leave the Knicks? Well, they need a better C eventually but the start, I'd guess they get the best backup to Mitch they can find while switching Randle in when they need more scoring.
It doesn’t seem like there was a way to keep IH and make the numbers work, but as an NYC resident and non-Knicks fan who got caught up in their run this year it’s sad to see him go. His game was a perfect complement to the Nova crew. Fun to watch.
 

The Social Chair

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That is incredibly foolish of him and should be struck down by the players association. He won't recoup anything in 2028 if his play falls off or he gets injured.
 

snowmanny

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Follow up tweets:





Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

·
21m

The repercussions of Brunson choosing the four-year, $156.5M max deal over the five-year, $269M deal in 2025 are massive for the Knicks’ ability to keep this team together – and keep making roster moves to close the gap on a championship.











Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

·
21m

The deal --- which will cost Brunson $37.1M over the next three years --- comes with a fourth-year player option, Rose said, and that would set up Brunson to recoup the rest of the $113M on a four-year, $323M extension in 2028 or a new five year, $418M deal in 2029.
 

LA_33

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The framing of this by Woj is amusingly breathless, but that IS a big concession by Brunson, to get four more years locked in, and potentially help the team keep the rest of his Nova-Boys together.

This feels like the correct reaction, in terms of league-wide implications (which he just re-posted in response to this news):
https://x.com/dangercart/status/1663527338410139651

In terms of fan impact, though, it's going to be insufferable that this happened with a Knicks guy (at least it wasn't a Laker) who's probably already a little overrated nationally (anyone who honestly thinks Brunson is better than Tatum is certifiable) and will now get pumped up as this selfless team-first hero.

When the reality is that Brunson accepting this is probably an acknowledgement by everyone involved that he's not actually a top-10 guy, at least projected forward more than a couple years, despite his numbers in 2024. He's a small guard who's already going to be 28 all of next season, and a LOT of guys with that profile fall off HARD not long after 30.

So I'm not convinced that the Knicks actually would have offered him the full-boat 30-35% max (he would have needed to make All-NBA again next year to earn 35%, and I don't think that's a given AT ALL) in a new environment where there wouldn't likely have been a lot of competition among even decent teams for a 30% max from an external suitor, and knowing that he really didn't want to leave.
 

nattysez

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This just in - Rick Brunson's contract as Knicks Assistant Coach just got extended for 4/$100.

This also just in - Leon Rose has hired his son as a temporary consultant to the team for $40m (to cover his lost agent fees).
 

ifmanis5

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This just in - Rik Brunson's contract as Knicks Assistant Coach just got extended for 4/$100.

This also just in - Leon Rose has hired his son as a temporary consultant to the team for $40m (to cover his lost agent fees).
Ha.

I hope the contact kickers aren't tied to the residual rights to Dolan's albums.
 

Euclis20

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Has any player essentially turned down anywhere near this amount, while still re-signing/extending long term? Jokes aside, it's pretty incredible.
 

BigSoxFan

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Not a smart business move for a short guard but I’ll give him credit for doing what he can to build a champion.
 

Montana Fan

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$40 million per year in a location and team situation that makes you comfortable, easiest decision ever for some people. Love to see players choose fuck you money plus situation over just, more fuck you money. Also protects against an injury. Good for him!
 

radsoxfan

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He's a small guard who's already going to be 28 all of next season, and a LOT of guys with that profile fall off HARD not long after 30.
This is an under appreciated part of Brunson's story.

Yes he had a great year. And no, he is not as vulnerable to a fall off as the really tiny IT-like guards. But it's not a given he is an All-NBA guy next year, or honestly even that great in 2-3 years.

Most likely he left some $ on the table, but this isn't the same thing as Tatum (or really any of the top 10-15 guys) signing a year early.

Looking at the history for this type of player, locking in 150M+ for his age 29-32 seasons could look pretty player friendly when all is said and done.
 

cheech13

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If the Knicks knew that Brunson was willing to accept this offer it changes the whole complexion of that Mikal Bridges trade because he was essentially the only level of talent they likely could acquire that would keep them under the second apron.