Number of ‘21-22 Opening Night holdovers from last year.

Number of ‘21-22 Opening Night holdovers from last years roster

  • 10+

    Votes: 4 6.1%
  • 8-9

    Votes: 24 36.4%
  • 6-7

    Votes: 34 51.5%
  • 0-5

    Votes: 4 6.1%

  • Total voters
    66

HomeRunBaker

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Any new GM is going to want to put their stamp on the new roster and in this case I feel Brad would want to even more than a typical new GM. I really feel like he disliked coaching this team last year. They were inconsistent with energy, have many no-shows, and simply did not play with an intensity that Brad wanted. Expect a housecleaning this summer and over the next 12 months as Brad shapes his team with his guys.

I went with “6-7” but it wouldn’t shock me to see even fewer guys back from last year. I suspect Brad likes Grant and will keep him around, I think he likes Romeo as well. I really feel he dislikes Nesmith and will move him as a part of a deal. I don’t think he was a Fournier guy either.
 
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Ale Xander

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I went with 5

Jae1
Jae2
RWIII
PP (or Waters if they can get value for PP)
Nesmith or Romeo (whichever one has less value to other teams)
 

tbb345

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I think it’s anywhere from 5-8. Any more or less than that would shock me
 

benhogan

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9 return

1. Tatum
2. Brown
3. TL
4. Grant
5. Smart
6. Fournier
7. Nesmith
8. Langford
9. PP

Move Thompson+ for vet PG help, unless they can engineer the Lonz (then less players return)
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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Jaylen
Tatum
Fournier
Rob
Grant
PP
Edwards
Thompson
Romeo
Jabari

Would not be surprised to see Semi back as well.

I hope I'm very wrong and there is much more roster turnover.
 

Koufax

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Jaylen
Tatum
Time Lord
Fournier
PP
Smart
Romeo
Nesmith
Thompson
Jabari
Kornet
 

benhogan

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From what I remember one of the reasons that he left was he didn’t like playing the 5 like he did so often here and would be the 4 next to Embiid. So it’s an idea that I’m sure he’d like and I’m sure could pull off
Al was much more effective as a 5 for Philly, then as a 4 next to Embiid/Simmons
 

Joe Sixpack

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I went with “6-7” but it would shock me to see even fewer guys back from last year. I suspect Brad likes Grant and will keep him around, I think he likes Romeo as well. I really feel he dislikes Nesmith and will move him as a part of a deal. I don’t think he was a Fournier guy either.
It's interesting, I was listening to the Woj pod today on this, he had on Tim Bontemps and they (I forgot which guy made the comment) were saying that Brad really liked Fournier.
 

lexrageorge

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Kemba
Smart
Pritchard
Edwards
Jaylen
Fournier (UFA)
Romeo
Nesmith
Tatum
G Williams
R Williams
Semi (UFA)
Parker (non-guaranteed)
Thompson
Kornet
(UFA)
Tacko (QO eligible RFA)
Waters (QO eligible RFA)

I voted 6-7; just my best guess above, which leaves 8. Besides Kemba, I'd put Semi, Parker, Tacko, and Waters in the "no doubt gone" category, so the max returning is 12. I think Brad is going to try to upgrade the Grant Williams slot, and I'm assuming Tristan Thompson and Kornet will be part of the players going out. As MLE player, Thompson does not have negative trade value, especially given the shit ton of player movement yet to come and the rather crappy list of likely MLE-level players; he's just a bad fit here. Stevens is not going to let the Edwards guarantee force his hand either.

And I do get the feeling that at least one of Smart, Pritchard, Romeo, Nesmith and R. Williams will be gone (I just have no idea who), which is why I voted 6-7. Sounds like they want to keep Fournier, but if a GM gets stupid, he gone.
 

Cellar-Door

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It's interesting, I was listening to the Woj pod today on this, he had on Tim Bontemps and they (I forgot which guy made the comment) were saying that Brad really liked Fournier.
He's exactly what Brad likes offensively in a player, 6-7, can handle the ball, willing passer, lights out shooter off the catch.
Offensively he's VERY similar to Hayward (without the rebounding). His defense isn't good, but you can get away with that if the guys around him can defend. Not many teams don't have a weak defender at least.
 

Ale Xander

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He's exactly what Brad likes offensively in a player, 6-7, can handle the ball, willing passer, lights out shooter off the catch.
Offensively he's VERY similar to Hayward (without the rebounding). His defense isn't good, but you can get away with that if the guys around him can defend. Not many teams don't have a weak defender at least.
Hayward has much much better vision (and IMHO a better a defender) He's willing but not as effective.
 

Cellar-Door

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Hayward has much much better vision (and IMHO a better a defender) He's willing but not as effective.
Oh Hayward is a better defender, I was comparing offense only.

He's probably a better passer, but it's close, they pass differently, feels like Hayward gets more kick out assists, NG gets more passes to the roll man. Overall though, their offensive production in 2019-20 was shockingly similar:
eFG- .461 to .460, TS: .595 each, AST% 16.6 to 18.7, FTr .237 to .207 similar usage, etc.
 

lovegtm

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1. Jaylen
2. Tatum
3. Fournier
4. TL
5. Romeo
6. Grant
7. One of Smart/PP/Nesmith

All reporting post-trade has indicated that they want to re-sign Fournier, which makes sense. It's pretty rare for a 6-5 guy to get hunted to death on defense even if he is a bit slow-footed, as long as the rest of the lineup is good defensively.

Brad seems to like Romeo and TL a lot, so they'd only get moved if valued as relatively significant assets, which is only likely for the latter. Grant is blah, but no one is going to want him as an asset and he does some
things ok for cheap.

Smart is a positive asset and has the contract situation, so moving him to get a better shooting fit on a longer deal makes some sense.

PP is just meh, mild positive asset, but the team probably wants to upsize at PG.

Nesmith is interesting: you'd need decent value for him, but I could see there being a sizeable delta between another team's valuation of him and Brad's, which would make him useful in certain types of deals.
 

BringBackMo

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Any new GM is going to want to put their stamp on the new roster and in this case I feel Brad would want to even more than a typical new GM. I really feel like he disliked coaching this team last year. They were inconsistent with energy, have many no-shows, and simply did not play with an intensity that Brad wanted. Expect a housecleaning this summer and over the next 12 months as Brad shapes his team with his guys.

I went with “6-7” but it wouldn’t shock me to see even fewer guys back from last year. I suspect Brad likes Grant and will keep him around, I think he likes Romeo as well. I really feel he dislikes Nesmith and will move him as a part of a deal. I don’t think he was a Fournier guy either.
Curious about your comment regarding Brad’s feelings about Nesmith. It hadn’t occurred to me that he liked him any more or less than any other young player. Yes, he seemed to put Nesmith in the doghouse from time to time, at least when it came to minutes, but he’s done that with plenty of other young players, too.

Nesmith surprised many here with his athleticism and aptitude for defense, and his shooting touch seemed to develop by the end of the season to where we’d all hoped it would be at the start of the season. What gives you the impression that Brad particularly dislikes him and will look to move him?
 

128

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Curious about your comment regarding Brad’s feelings about Nesmith. It hadn’t occurred to me that he liked him any more or less than any other young player. Yes, he seemed to put Nesmith in the doghouse from time to time, at least when it came to minutes, but he’s done that with plenty of other young players, too.

Nesmith surprised many here with his athleticism and aptitude for defense, and his shooting touch seemed to develop by the end of the season to where we’d all hoped it would be at the start of the season. What gives you the impression that Brad particularly dislikes him and will look to move him?
I had the same question after reading HRB's post. I'd think a coach would appreciate a player who gave 100-percent effort at all times on the court, and that was Nesmith.

Moving him now would be the definition of selling low, wouldn't it? Unless there's a team out there that values Nesmith higher than anyone else does.
 

BringBackMo

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I had the same question after reading HRB's post. I'd think a coach would appreciate a player who gave 100-percent effort at all times on the court, and that was Nesmith.

Moving him now would be the definition of selling low, wouldn't it? Unless there's a team out there that values Nesmith higher than anyone else does.
That’s certainly my view as well. BUT if HRB is correct, and Brad doesn’t think much of his future, then dealing him now wouldn’t actually represent selling low. So I’m curious about what makes him believe that Brad dislikes Nesmith as a player.
 

lovegtm

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That’s certainly my view as well. BUT if HRB is correct, and Brad doesn’t think much of his future, then dealing him now wouldn’t actually represent selling low. So I’m curious about what makes him believe that Brad dislikes Nesmith as a player.
HRB is lower on Nesmith (a valid opinion, although I'm not really there) and projecting that imo.

But to make his case for him: Brad pretty clearly preferred Romeo in the playoffs when given the choice, although Nesmith wasn't stapled to the bench or anything.
 

BringBackMo

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HRB is lower on Nesmith (a valid opinion, although I'm not really there) and projecting that imo.

But to make his case for him: Brad pretty clearly preferred Romeo in the playoffs when given the choice, although Nesmith wasn't stapled to the bench or anything.
Yes, this is certainly true. But it seems to me that a potent rotation could easily feature both of them. So preferring Romeo wouldn’t necessarily mean disliking Nesmith and wanting to trade him. Reasonable message boarders can certainly disagree about players, but HRB’s post indicates that Brad shares his low opinion of Nesmith, and I’m just curious about what makes him think that.
 
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The value of Nesmith, as opposed to Romeo, is shooting, which the C's desperately need for spacing. His defense is a bonus.

I have no idea what Brad's private evaluation of these players is, but I think for the Kemba trade to work both Langford and Nesmith need to emerge. Their trade value right now would be minimal at best, and I don't think it is a wise use of assets to move them as salary filler before it is clear that they won't work out. A new coach/new voice/new environment may have a dramatic effect.
 

Jimbodandy

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The value of Nesmith, as opposed to Romeo, is shooting, which the C's desperately need for spacing. His defense is a bonus.

I have no idea what Brad's private evaluation of these players is, but I think for the Kemba trade to work both Langford and Nesmith need to emerge. Their trade value right now would be minimal at best, and I don't think it is a wise use of assets to move them as salary filler before it is clear that they won't work out. A new coach/new voice/new environment may have a dramatic effect.
Agree with this.

If the Cs want to make a move for a third big piece later, picks will be outbound as part of it. So young guys on first contracts with nba bodies will be a good thing to have around. I voted 5-7 holdovers, thinking that it's likely 7 including both AN and RL.

If some team prefers one or the other to another first round pick, so be it. But I would be surprised if that's true.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I had the same question after reading HRB's post. I'd think a coach would appreciate a player who gave 100-percent effort at all times on the court, and that was Nesmith.

Moving him now would be the definition of selling low, wouldn't it? Unless there's a team out there that values Nesmith higher than anyone else does.
Couple things. One, I’m separating my opinion of Nesmith from what I feel Brad’s is the same way I’m separating my opinion of Grant (JAG deep bench guy) from Brad’s (I feel he really trusts him on the floor). In this case I do feel they are kinda similar based on how I’ve seen the player be used. I’m open to being totally off on this read but that’s what I observed. Two, I don’t understand the “100-percent effort” thing since Brad benched him for several weeks early in the year after a game in which he gave less effort than this boards namesake on a February B2B in Cleveland. He’s also had other invisible efforts in short minutes which imo was reason behind those short minutes on that night. Three, his leash was short with Nesmith much of the time and had no trouble sitting him for multiple games at a time throughout the season while other struggling young players kept their normal rotation minutes and some (Romeo, TL) increased theirs. Four, I do feel there are teams that are intrigued by Nesmith more than Brad showed which could lead him being a value piece in a multi-player deal......one that I feel Brad will make to change the makeup of this roster.
 

128

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Couple things. One, I’m separating my opinion of Nesmith from what I feel Brad’s is the same way I’m separating my opinion of Grant (JAG deep bench guy) from Brad’s (I feel he really trusts him on the floor). Two, I don’t understand the “100-percent effort” thing since Brad benched him for several weeks early in the year after a game in which he gave less effort than this boards namesake on a February B2B in Cleveland. Three, his leash was short with Nesmith much of the time and had no trouble sitting him for multiple games at a time throughout the season while other struggling young players kept their normal rotation minutes and some (Romeo, TL) increased theirs. Four, I do feel there are teams that are intrigued by Nesmith more than Brad showed which could lead him being a value piece in a multi-player deal......one that I feel Brad will make to change the makeup of this roster.
Maybe we were watching different players. Nesmith didn't always play intelligently, especially early in the season, but he always played hard, at least to my eye. During a season in which many of his older teammates periodically seemed to be going through the motions, I never once questioned whether the game mattered to Nesmith.

Brad made a number of quirky moves with his rotations as coach. A guy would have a big game off the bench one night and then would sit the next. I'm not at all sold that Nesmith's benching was due to a poor effort in Cleveland. There could have been any number of other reasons for it.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Maybe we were watching different players. Nesmith didn't always play intelligently, especially early in the season, but he always played hard, at least to my eye. During a season in which many of his older teammates periodically seemed to be going through the motions, I never once questioned whether the game mattered to Nesmith.

Brad made a number of quirky moves with his rotations as coach. A guy would have a big game off the bench one night and then would sit the next. I'm not at all sold that Nesmith's benching was due to a poor effort in Cleveland. There could have been any number of other reasons for it.
I was using “Cleveland” as a metaphor in describing his effort. It was actually the Pacers home game when his head was anywhere but in the game which again landed him on the bench for a couple weeks.
 

radsoxfan

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I'll add to the choir and say didn't see Brad's "anti-Nesmith" bent either. I think it was pretty clear he didn't think Nesmith was ready to play at the start of the year, for good reason (limited college experience, injuries, etc).

It was also clear for stretches later in the year when Nesmith got significant playing time he was impressing with his hustle and energy (plenty of quotes from Brad and many players).

I don't think it's impossible that he is traded, but that will primarily be related to his value around the league. If I had to guess, Nesmith and Romeo are both on the opening day roster this year.

Part of the reason Brad probably isn't too heartbroken about losing the 16th pick is that those 2 both have a huge developmental year coming up and they don't need another unproven guy added to the mix.
 

TripleOT

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9
Tatum
Brown
TL
Smart
Nesmith
Romeo
PP
Grant
Parker

(unless Brad can trade for Beal)
 

HomeRunBaker

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I'll add to the choir and say didn't see Brad's "anti-Nesmith" bent either. I think it was pretty clear he didn't think Nesmith was ready to play at the start of the year, for good reason (limited college experience, injuries, etc).

It was also clear for stretches later in the year when Nesmith got significant playing time he was impressing with his hustle and energy (plenty of quotes from Brad and many players).
I’ll counter with a question(s). If Nesmith did all of these things, a) Why did Brad bury him for several stretches after him seeing regular rotation minutes? And b) If he did all these things would YOU have buried him on more than one occasion for weeks at a time?
 

radsoxfan

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I’ll counter with a question(s). If Nesmith did all of these things, a) Why did Brad bury him for several stretches after him seeing regular rotation minutes? And b) If he did all these things would YOU have buried him on more than one occasion for weeks at a time?
I think the rotations were pretty wacky all year to be honest, you could say the same for almost everybody outside the core guys. Brad pretty clearly wasnt enamored with his rotation and was searching for someone to break out.

I’m sure there were times Brad was frustrated with his effort or play, I just didn’t see it as any sort of outlier compared to other guys on the bench.

Brad’s true opinion? I really don’t know, none of us do. I just didn’t attribute the stuff we could see from the outside as any sort of meaningful evidence of a negative opinion re: Nesmith.
 

Jimbodandy

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I’ll counter with a question(s). If Nesmith did all of these things, a) Why did Brad bury him for several stretches after him seeing regular rotation minutes? And b) If he did all these things would YOU have buried him on more than one occasion for weeks at a time?
Work ethic and getting fucking lost like Bambi are two different things. He was flying around like a golden retriever on crack. Doesn't stop Brad for benching him for shit reads and missed assignments.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Work ethic and getting fucking lost like Bambi are two different things. He was flying around like a golden retriever on crack. Doesn't stop Brad for benching him for shit reads and missed assignments.
I agree but as I pointed out many times that isn’t what occurred in the game prior to his benching. He wandered aimlessness and listlessly for his entire 6-7 minute 1H rotation then didn’t play again for 2-3 weeks. I agree there were times he did give energy in that stretch then it slowed down prior to the end coming in that Pacer game.
 

benhogan

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Part of the reason Brad probably isn't too heartbroken about losing the 16th pick is that those 2 both have a huge developmental year coming up and they don't need another unproven guy added to the mix.
Fact.

In years past I was always jazzed about the draft and development (to timeline w/ the JAYS). After a full offseason, Romeo and Nesmith should be raring to go, I'm interested in seeing their curve. Moses Brown should be the rawest youngster on the roster, as the 3rd, 4th or 5th option at Center.

With the Jays evolving, I'd like to see Celtics start packaging firsts/swaps to surround them with proven NBA talent.