November General NBA Game Thread

This is just filthy. It's hard to say if the shooting or the passing is more impressive. He already might be the best passer in the league, but to go 8/13 from three from where he is pulling from...damn. Also, after wandering around Chicago and Washington last season, Jabari Parker must think he has died and gone to heaven playing with Ice Trae. Filling in for John Collins, he is averaging 17 ppg on 56 percent shooting. He can still catch Andrew Wiggins in the "Wiggins or Parker?" debate. It's not too late!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2ZByqLkcb4
I follow Trae closely, of course - or as closely as I can from the UK - but don't see much if any of Doncic. Bill Simmons remains pretty convinced that Atlanta made the wrong choice, and that Doncic has the ceiling of winning multiple MVPs, whereas Trae doesn't. I don't think Simmons is alone, but what do you guys think? Is Trae plus Cam Reddish worth giving up Luka?
 

Euclis20

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I think Luka > (Trae + Cam), but it's still super early. Trae has been excellent, but just a glance at Luka's numbers (28 ppg, 10 rpg, 9 apg) show him to be an absolute monster. He's already got the most triple doubles by anyone under the age of 21 (he's got 9, 2 more than Magic and 4 more than Lebron, and he doesn't turn 21 until the end of February) and is looking better all the time. The one thing Trae definitely does better is hit impossible shots from the outside, but Luka has his own cheat mode (outside of Harden, I can't think of anyone who has a better step back) and he's a solidly more efficient high volume scorer than Trae.

It would help Atlanta's case if Reddish wasn't busy being arguably the worst player in his draft class. Luka also has a pretty mediocre Dallas team in playoff contention in the west (Porzingis gives them a much higher ceiling than Atlanta, but he's still very rusty).
 

lovegtm

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Pacers look like they will go 7-1 since Myles Turner has gone down with an injury. A Sabonis/Turner combo struggles in the modern NBA. Wouldn't be shocked if they moved Turner, he could land a decent haul.
...
This is a fun little "what would you do as Pritchard?" scenario. Obviously either Sabonis or Turner on their current contracts are significant positive assets, but you have to move one to have any chance of maximizing this window. The problem is that the thing you need most is the thing everyone else wants and no one wants to give up (talented wings). I honestly don't have great ideas. Someone like Atlanta seems like a natural trading partner, but not sure Indy really wants anything that the Hawks have.
 

Montana Fan

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He just missed a three with ~ 14 seconds left that would have given the Nets the lead. He didn't have to take that quick of a shot and Rudy Gobert was able to close out on his shot at the last second without falling and got enough hand in Irving's airspace such that it likely affected it. Jazz win 119-114 coming back from down 15 and outscore BKNY by 9-2 in the last few minutes to seal the win.
It's like rooting for the Nets pick all over again. Except we don't get the Nets pick. I pulled for them the last few years and loved what Marks and Atkinson did in building up that team. No more,no more...
 

benhogan

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This is a fun little "what would you do as Pritchard?" scenario. Obviously either Sabonis or Turner on their current contracts are significant positive assets, but you have to move one to have any chance of maximizing this window. The problem is that the thing you need most is the thing everyone else wants and no one wants to give up (talented wings). I honestly don't have great ideas. Someone like Atlanta seems like a natural trading partner, but not sure Indy really wants anything that the Hawks have.
Agreed, it's just a fun exercise. Not making any predictions here

Pritchard isn't one to just sit on his hands, when he has assets on decent deals, and they are not meshing. As you know, I like both of them, but Sabonis is tougher to trade in-season with the poison pill option. Tough to find a partner since most of the contenders and teams for that matter are set at the 5.

Nate may just need to figure out how to stagger their minutes better, draw up better plays, take advantage of their size mismatches.
 

InstaFace

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It's like rooting for the Nets pick all over again. Except we don't get the Nets pick. I pulled for them the last few years and loved what Marks and Atkinson did in building up that team. No more,no more...
It's a lot easier to feel good rooting for Sacramento this season. Who, btw, just owned Western Conference Finalists, the fightin' Dames, last night. Yet another supermax deal may be turning tragic for roster depth.
 

benhogan

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It's a lot easier to feel good rooting for Sacramento this season. Who, btw, just owned Western Conference Finalists, the fightin' Dames, last night. Yet another supermax deal may be turning tragic for roster depth.
I don't see Dame's deal as the culprit here (unlike the Wall super-maximum pain deal)

I didn't get unloading Leonard, Aminu and Harkless to add Hassan Whiteside ($27MM)
 

Cellar-Door

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I don't see Dame's deal as the culprit here (unlike the Wall super-maximum pain deal)

I didn't get unloading Leonard, Aminu and Harkless to add Hassan Whiteside ($27MM)
It kicks in next year, and is probably the reason that they let Aminu walk. Whiteside is a simple "we need a C with Nurkic out" move, and since he is expiring he won't be on the books when Dame's deal kicks in. Leonard and Harkless for Whiteside isn't the major problem.

Aminu is the clear cost cutting move, they didn't want to give him 9-10M the next 3 years and it has been the one that has hurt them the most.
 

benhogan

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It kicks in next year, and is probably the reason that they let Aminu walk. Whiteside is a simple "we need a C with Nurkic out" move, and since he is expiring he won't be on the books when Dame's deal kicks in. Leonard and Harkless for Whiteside isn't the major problem.

Aminu is the clear cost cutting move, they didn't want to give him 9-10M the next 3 years and it has been the one that has hurt them the most.
ok, for some reason I thought Whiteside was a 2yr deal
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Harden goes for 47 points on 12-26 shooting including 7-13 from deep with seven assists and six boards in the Rockets 102-93 defeat of the Clippers in Houston. In 11 games, Harden has scored fewer than 20 once (19) and fewer than 30 three times (29 twice and the aforementioned 19). His last five games he has scored 44, 36, 42, 39 and 47 on a 46.5% FG% (42.7% from deep)

Russ with some analysis of a specific Clippers defender:

View: https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1194832267425615872?s=20


Also, I don't know if this is a fake and I don't want to. RoCo forever!

View: https://twitter.com/McCulloughSam/status/1194813061602971649?s=20
 
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DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Toronto is really impressive. After tonight's 114-106 win in Portland, they are 3-1 on this road trip and are at 8-3 overall.

Siakam isn't as efficient as last year but his production is still pretty good and while VanVleet can shoot himself out of a gym, he is also a lethal partner for Pascal in terms of spacing. And on this trip, the team's seemingly endless depth allowed them to put up some impressive wins despite losing Lowry, Ibaka and Anunoby over the last few days.
 

lovegtm

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Toronto is really impressive. After tonight's 114-106 win in Portland, they are 3-1 on this road trip and are at 8-3 overall.

Siakam isn't as efficient as last year but his production is still pretty good and while VanVleet can shoot himself out of a gym, he is also a lethal partner for Pascal in terms of spacing. And on this trip, the team's seemingly endless depth allowed them to put up some impressive wins despite losing Lowry, Ibaka and Anunoby over the last few days.
Toronto is scary. They definitely deserve to be mentioned in the top of the East: I'm not sure that, with this version of Siakam, Brogdon-less MIL is better than them. The Celtics are lucky that they have a lot of good defensive wings to throw at Siakam, but those are going to be really tough games.
 

chilidawg

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Toronto is really impressive. After tonight's 114-106 win in Portland, they are 3-1 on this road trip and are at 8-3 overall.

Siakam isn't as efficient as last year but his production is still pretty good and while VanVleet can shoot himself out of a gym, he is also a lethal partner for Pascal in terms of spacing. And on this trip, the team's seemingly endless depth allowed them to put up some impressive wins despite losing Lowry, Ibaka and Anunoby over the last few days.
You've got to give Toronto's coaching and player development guys some credit for all of this. I'm impressed by how they've moved on from Kawhi.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Wiggins was 12/23, 4/7 from 3, 2/2 from FT line with 8 rebounds, 7 assists, 2 steals, 1 block and 2 turnovers.

Last 5: .521/.394/.700, 31.6 points, 6.0 assists, 5.0 rebounds, 1.2 steals, 1.4 blocks.

According to the metrics, he's playing the best defense of his career too (still bad).

Also, if Toronto keeps this up, Siakam should get some MVP consideration.

And I don't think it would ever happen, but I'd love to see Ingram to Indiana in a trade build around Turner or Sabonis.
 

lovegtm

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Wiggins was 12/23, 4/7 from 3, 2/2 from FT line with 8 rebounds, 7 assists, 2 steals, 1 block and 2 turnovers.

Last 5: .521/.394/.700, 31.6 points, 6.0 assists, 5.0 rebounds, 1.2 steals, 1.4 blocks.

According to the metrics, he's playing the best defense of his career too (still bad).

Also, if Toronto keeps this up, Siakam should get some MVP consideration.

And I don't think it would ever happen, but I'd love to see Ingram to Indiana in a trade build around Turner or Sabonis.
That’s the first good Sabonis/Turner trade idea that I’ve heard.
 

benhogan

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You've got to give Toronto's coaching and player development guys some credit for all of this. I'm impressed by how they've moved on from Kawhi.
Agreed, very impressive. Masai has been the best GM over the last couple of seasons

They were pretty good before Kawhi showed up and did alright on his load days last season so I guess it shouldn't come as a complete shocker.

BUT Siakam's development has been nothing short of amazing. AND their patience/foresight on bringing along Fred VanVleet (my Carsen Edwards comp) as an undrafted player that didn't do much his rookie season to a key rotational player on a Championship team and now a starter is also very impressive for the Toronto development guys.

They are getting next to nothing out of old, tired Marc Gasol. They should give him 2 months off or maybe they can do something with his large expiring contract ($25.6MM)?
 

Cesar Crespo

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Gasol didn't age well at all. Crazy to think he's actually a month younger than LeBron James.

Also if Toronto keeps it up, Siakam deserves some MVP buzz. He's scary good.
 

Cesar Crespo

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good work

been trying to figure out the Pacer conundrum all Summer

an Ingram for Turner trade is a great beginning.
I just don't know if NO would bite on that because Turner isn't enough of an offensive player and NO doesn't really have much offense outside of Ingram. They trade him for Turner and their number 1 is Jrue Holiday.

I think it's more likely they'd trade for Sabonis. I also think Ingram would be a good fit with both Sabonis and Turner but would fit better with Turner due to Turners defense.

Also, Oladipo was assigned to the G League and is probably close to returning. I think if they traded Turner for Ingram, they'd struggle to find enough shots for everyone whereas Turner is a guy who isn't really looking for his shots.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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good work

been trying to figure out the Pacer conundrum all Summer

an Ingram for Turner trade is a great beginning.
Would New Orleans give up on Jaxon Hayes so quickly after drafting him though? Pairing him with Sabonis/Turner just recreates the problem Indiana has now with two traditional centers on the court at the same time, and throw in Zion and you’ve got real spacing problems. I think Ingram, especially if his growth is real (or if it’s an effect from moving away from Luke Walton), is a better fit with Zion than either Indy big men.

I guess New Orleans might like the Turner or Sabonis contracts better than what they’ll have to pay Ingram to keep him around long term, but ultimately trading a young rising star wing for a young rising star big isn’t the best way to contention in today’s NBA. Plus Zion is relatively cheap for a few years.
 

benhogan

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Would New Orleans give up on Jaxon Hayes so quickly after drafting him though? Pairing him with Sabonis/Turner just recreates the problem Indiana has now with two traditional centers on the court at the same time, and throw in Zion and you’ve got real spacing problems. I think Ingram, especially if his growth is real (or if it’s an effect from moving away from Luke Walton), is a better fit with Zion than either Indy big men.

I guess New Orleans might like the Turner or Sabonis contracts better than what they’ll have to pay Ingram to keep him around long term, but ultimately trading a young rising star wing for a young rising star big isn’t the best way to contention in today’s NBA. Plus Zion is relatively cheap for a few years.
it's worth debating for fun, fake trades have a less than 1% chance of happening

A young/raw Jaxon Hayes is clearly not an NBA starter, he has a couple of years of development ahead of him IMO. They would not be giving up on him at all since he's only 19yrs old right now. Turner would have 2.5 seasons left on his deal and could be moved with a year left if Hayes fulfills his promise by 21

Ingram is about to get MAX expensive. So not sure he even works for Indy since Turner is on a good contract
 

Kliq

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Yikes, I don't get that move at all. Portland's offense is fine; their defense is a mess because they lost Harkless and Aminu, as well as having to play Whiteside. Melo solves none of those problems.
 

Cellar-Door

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Yikes, I don't get that move at all. Portland's offense is fine; their defense is a mess because they lost Harkless and Aminu, as well as having to play Whiteside. Melo solves none of those problems.
Their offense isn't all that fine to be honest, it's middle of the pack overall and TURRIBLE when Lillard isn't on the floor. Think this is as simple as there not being any one player available (for vet min, they have no money) that was going to fix the defense, so get a more dependable scorer at the swing forward position. IF Melo is putting in effort he's probably not much if any worse on D than the guys they play now, and he's probably still a decent offensive upgrade. I don't think he fixes that team at all, but for the vet minimum he probably improves them some while they try to hold on
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I think the Melo move for the Blazers is a bit of a head scratcher but to CD's point, if they are getting into shooting wars every single night, he, at least in theory, may help them there. I can't see him in Stotts offense though and I wonder how well he will work with Lillard and McCollum.

Regarding Aminu, Harkless and Turner its true that the Blazers lost some good (but not great) wing defenders - all of them were essentially adequate defenders over the last few years but the reality is that they each gave a lot back on offense. The Warriors and the stacked WC are the main reason the Blazers maxed out last year in the finals but Portland, as constructed last year, weren't going to get anywhere because these players were essentially poor on offense. Moe Harkless's shooting last year and during most of his career would cause a gamethread melt down were he playing for the Celtics.

Add in the Nurkic injury coupled with Portland's cap situation and Portland was in a bad spot regardless of what they did. Then they lose Zach Collins, who is a good defender and was emerging offensively so that only compounded their woes.

I don't know what Olshey can do and while he deserves a lot of blame for the roster construction, the choices they've made should also be filtered through the lens of an organization that doesn't offer a lot of attraction to free agents aside from Lillard's reputation as a great teammate and maybe Stotts coaching (who knows what his reputation is amongst the players and how much weight that actually carries).

So here we are - NBA junkies get what they want which is more Melo. Rip City indeed...
 
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DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Doncic reminds me of Larry Bird more than anyone has ever. And I would have given Larry both kidneys in 1986, had he needed them.
Doncic is ridiculous.
Yes and yes. And the former comparison isn't valid because both Bird and Doncic are caucasian. Its because each of them could both run the offense while being the main scorer and each of them possess a high level of basketball IQ while also getting the most out of their abilities.

If Doncic becomes more efficient as a scorer - and he should - its scary to think how good he will become. He isn't yet 21...
 

mostman

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Morris Sr with a shot to put the Knicks up 3 with 14s left. You just knew he was going to shoot it.

Im watching this one on LP - using one of the backboard cameras. It’s oddly soothing with no announcers.
 

scottyno

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nets blow a 16 pt early 3rd quarter lead to lose by 8 in denver, everyone's favorite chucker ends up with 17 pts on 20 fga and was basically invisible in the 4th quarter