November 2024 NBA Gamethread: Some of the Turkeys are on the Court

InstaFace

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New month, new drama, new thread.

Importantly for this month, the NBA Cup Brought To You By Thousands of Dead Construction Slaves is being played throughout the month. Format is the same as last year. We can have a separate Cup thread, or we can lump it in here, what do you guys think? Either way, the group-stage matchdays are:

- Tuesday Nov 12th (8)
- Friday Nov 15th (12)
- Tuesday Nov 19th (6)
- Friday Nov 22nd (8)
- Tuesday Nov 26th (5)
- Friday Nov 29th (10)
- Tuesday Dec 3rd (11)

QFs to follow on Dec 10-11, Semis Dec 14th, Finals Dec 17th.

Celtics' group-stage opponents are Cleveland and the Sad Sacks (Chicago, Atlanta, Washington). BOS matches are @ATL 11/12, @CLE 11/19 (the big one!), vs WAS 11/22, and vs CHI 11/29. The latter being a great opportunity to reminisce about beating the stuffing out of Chicago by 33 last year in order to get the East wild-card, including Joe going Full Psycho with hack-a-Drummond and spamming our most-effective plays over and over again playoff-style.

NBA-wide storylines in the early season include:

- Cleveland's hot 5-0 start and whether they're an actual East contender
- Milwaukee's miserable start and whether they might even be a bad team
- Potential return of Embiid and Paul George (at some point during the month, surely) and Philly's recovery from their 1-3 start. Tyrese Maxey is playing 42 MPG thus far this season.
- The Clippers' new stadium looking like a lot of fun
- OKC looking scary, including having the best defense in the league by some measures, and the media trying to gin up a Chet-vs-Wemby rivalry and draw parallels to Wilt vs Russell, along with pushing SGA as an MVP contender
- Lakers looking competent-led, sadly, and featuring a healthy Bron / AD, making this the "fun" part of their season (before that all changes). Reaves also has taken a leap forward.
- Comeback Player efforts from the likes of Lamelo Lonzo Ball in Chicago (going well!), Ben Simmons in Brooklyn (going poorly!), Jordan Poole in Washington (going fairly well!), Ja Morant in Memphis (looking good!), and Gabe Vincent with the Lakers (meh?)
- The rise of young talent-laden teams like San Antonio, Houston and, uh, Orlando? Really there's not a good third contender from what I can tell, unless you want to put
- Early-season injuries to ORL's Paolo Banchero, MEM's Marcus Smart ( :( ), CLE's Max Strus ( >:) ), GSW's Steph Curry, LAC's Kawhi Leonard ( ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ), MIL's Khris Middleton, NYK's Mitchell Robinson, and ATL's "most of the roster". Will they return? Will they look good?

So, lots to follow.
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

wade boggs chicken dinner

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@InstaFace - thanks for starting this thread. LaMelo is in CHA; Lonzo is in CHI. Both are CPOY candidates I would think, although Lonzo probably won't play enough minutes to make the cut.
 
benhogan

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InstaFace said:
New month, new drama, new thread.

Importantly for this month, the NBA Cup Brought To You By Thousands of Dead Construction Slaves is being played throughout the month. Format is the same as last year. We can have a separate Cup thread, or we can lump it in here, what do you guys think? Either way, the group-stage matchdays are:

- Tuesday Nov 12th (8)
- Friday Nov 15th (12)
- Tuesday Nov 19th (6)
- Friday Nov 22nd (8)
- Tuesday Nov 26th (5)
- Friday Nov 29th (10)
- Tuesday Dec 3rd (11)

QFs to follow on Dec 10-11, Semis Dec 14th, Finals Dec 17th.

Celtics' group-stage opponents are Cleveland and the Sad Sacks (Chicago, Atlanta, Washington). BOS matches are @ATL 11/12, @CLE 11/19 (the big one!), vs WAS 11/22, and vs CHI 11/29. The latter being a great opportunity to reminisce about beating the stuffing out of Chicago by 33 last year in order to get the East wild-card, including Joe going Full Psycho with hack-a-Drummond and spamming our most-effective plays over and over again playoff-style.

NBA-wide storylines in the early season include:

- Cleveland's hot 5-0 start and whether they're an actual East contender
- Milwaukee's miserable start and whether they might even be a bad team
- Potential return of Embiid and Paul George (at some point during the month, surely) and Philly's recovery from their 1-3 start. Tyrese Maxey is playing 42 MPG thus far this season.
- The Clippers' new stadium looking like a lot of fun
- OKC looking scary, including having the best defense in the league by some measures, and the media trying to gin up a Chet-vs-Wemby rivalry and draw parallels to Wilt vs Russell, along with pushing SGA as an MVP contender
- Lakers looking competent-led, sadly, and featuring a healthy Bron / AD, making this the "fun" part of their season (before that all changes). Reaves also has taken a leap forward.
- Comeback Player efforts from the likes of Lamelo Lonzo Ball in Chicago (going well!), Ben Simmons in Brooklyn (going poorly!), Jordan Poole in Washington (going fairly well!), Ja Morant in Memphis (looking good!), and Gabe Vincent with the Lakers (meh?)
- The rise of young talent-laden teams like San Antonio, Houston and, uh, Orlando? Really there's not a good third contender from what I can tell, unless you want to put
- Early-season injuries to ORL's Paolo Banchero, MEM's Marcus Smart ( :( ), CLE's Max Strus ( >:) ), GSW's Steph Curry, LAC's Kawhi Leonard ( ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ), MIL's Khris Middleton, NYK's Mitchell Robinson, and ATL's "most of the roster". Will they return? Will they look good?

So, lots to follow.
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A separate thread for IST is probably in order
 
Tony C

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Euclis20 said:
Braun murders Gobert, who has a little hissy fit when Braun bumps into him:

View: https://twitter.com/espn/status/1852561430169485574


Denver went on a 25-3 run to take a 10 point lead with 4 minutes left, but Minnesota followed that with a 15-4 run to take the lead late.
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That’s pretty bush of Braun.

more importantly, is Malone trying to win a championship the first week of the season? He complained last year that his squad was tired in the playoffs due to overuse in the regular season, but he’s playing his starters more than ever. 39 minutes per game for Jokic going into tonight and 40 this game. And all for naught as they fall to 2-3.

I know their bench flat out sucks (who thought Russ was a good idea?), but ya sorta have to play the cards you’re dealt. If Jokic was over used last year, he’s close to 5 minutes more per game this season, by far the most of his career.
 
benhogan

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Tony C said:
That’s pretty bush of Braun.

more importantly, is Malone trying to win a championship the first week of the season? He complained last year that his squad was tired in the playoffs due to overuse in the regular season, but he’s playing his starters more than ever. 39 minutes per game for Jokic going into tonight and 40 this game. And all for naught as they fall to 2-3.

I know their bench flat out sucks (who thought Russ was a good idea?), but ya sorta have to play the cards you’re dealt. If Jokic was over used last year, he’s close to 5 minutes more per game this season, by far the most of his career.
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I'd love to own Denver's 1st pick (Orlando owns it). Malone is running Joker straight into the ground. This team goes straight to the lottery ala Curryless Warriors if Nikola gets injured.

They are completely levered to massive starter minutes this season.
 
Euclis20

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Tony C said:
That’s pretty bush of Braun.

more importantly, is Malone trying to win a championship the first week of the season? He complained last year that his squad was tired in the playoffs due to overuse in the regular season, but he’s playing his starters more than ever. 39 minutes per game for Jokic going into tonight and 40 this game. And all for naught as they fall to 2-3.

I know their bench flat out sucks (who thought Russ was a good idea?), but ya sorta have to play the cards you’re dealt. If Jokic was over used last year, he’s close to 5 minutes more per game this season, by far the most of his career.
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I don't know if it's all for naught - they're playing Jokic a ton because they might be 0-5 if not (their two wins were in OT and Denver trailed in the closing seconds of regulation). It does feel almost inevitable that Jokic breaks down at this rate, although whether it's an injury or he just plays with tired legs and loses his outside shot will remain to be seen.
 
PedroKsBambino

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Haven't there been rumors Malone is fighting with the front office? Wonder if he is thinking either he needs to show this roster can't win to get more juice, or is worried about his job and thus feels need to win early?

Regardless, they and Milwaukee show how narrow the window can be even around a MVP-level guy. I am pretty confident Brad wouldn't make the mistakes those orgs have, and we just have to keep our fingers crossed on the ownership side of things
 
J

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PedroKsBambino said:
Haven't there been rumors Malone is fighting with the front office? Wonder if he is thinking either he needs to show this roster can't win to get more juice, or is worried about his job and thus feels need to win early?

Regardless, they and Milwaukee show how narrow the window can be even around a MVP-level guy. I am pretty confident Brad wouldn't make the mistakes those orgs have, and we just have to keep our fingers crossed on the ownership side of things
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The new CBA might help job security like this. If it becomes very clear that windows are 1-3 years tops, can you really blame the Malones or Coach Buds of the world? Front offices may face more pressure to navigate the aprons and not bankrupt their owners, but it could help the coaches.
 
lovegtm

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PedroKsBambino said:
Regardless, they and Milwaukee show how narrow the window can be even around a MVP-level guy. I am pretty confident Brad wouldn't make the mistakes those orgs have, and we just have to keep our fingers crossed on the ownership side of things
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My takeaways:
- you can't build Stars&Scrubs rosters in the modern NBA. Other teams just have too much skill, coaching is too good, defenses have too many option, and rules favor multiple actions on offense + versatility.You're going to lose too many games, and the play-in always looms.
- if you're going to skimp somewhere on your roster, it needs to be at center. If you are thin on the wing, or your guards can't shoot, you're boned. The Celtics are showing how good you can be in the regular season with fungicenters.

(Obviously this is rough for teams like Denver, Philly, and sorta/kinda Milwaukee, where the best player plays center.)
 
benhogan

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lovegtm said:
My takeaways:
- you can't build Stars&Scrubs rosters in the modern NBA. Other teams just have too much skill, coaching is too good, defenses have too many option, and rules favor multiple actions on offense + versatility.You're going to lose too many games, and the play-in always looms.
- if you're going to skimp somewhere on your roster, it needs to be at center. If you are thin on the wing, or your guards can't shoot, you're boned. The Celtics are showing how good you can be in the regular season with fungicenters.

(Obviously this is rough for teams like Denver, Philly, and sorta/kinda Milwaukee, where the best player plays center.)
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speaking of fungicenters, 7' Jay Huff has put up 20 pts (5/7 from 3) with a couple of blocks over 13 minutes against that 76er juggernaut.

Jay was on a 2-way only a few days ago and was available for free this summer.
 
Sam Ray Not

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the moops said:
One of these things is not like the other
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Ha, yeah. Though with Steph out, you'd think Melton's secondary ballhandling and playmaking would be critical. Yet somehow they've won three straight with a point guard rotation of Podziemski, Draymond, and Kyle Anderson.
 
Imbricus

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JCizzle said:
Bucks are 1-5.
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They lose at home on a night when they shoot 46% from three (Dame 10 for 15). That has to be depressing as hell. At least Philly can blame not having George and Embiid. Milwaukee is only down Middleton, right?
 
benhogan

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HomeRunBaker said:
I was just talking in another thread earlier in the night about why coaches keep their starters in with 20-25 pt leads.
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Then again, Kuminga & Hield helped build that lead ;)

The Warriors are a nice story but OKC's defense is the front page headline.
Throttling the Clippers in the 2nd half, 35pts. Caruso/Giddey trade looks like a win/win for both teams.
 
C

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Honestly think OKC will take a good run at 70+ wins. That defense is stifling and they have so much depth.
 
Sam Ray Not

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benhogan said:
Then again, Kuminga & Hield helped build that lead ;)

The Warriors are a nice story but OKC's defense is the front page headline.
Throttling the Clippers in the 2nd half, 35pts. Caruso/Giddey trade looks like a win/win for both teams.
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And they’re gonna add Hartenstein to the mix! Yikes. They’re looking bulletproof right now, but to paraphrase Michael Corleone, if history has taught us anything, it’s that the Thunder can be taken down. :)
 
benhogan

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lovegtm said:
Stop bringing your insane anti-Sixers garbage into the threads here!

Next you'll be telling me that Embiid has never made it past the 2nd round!
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for suitable colloquy, Emily Post gives 4-Stars to Marc Iavaroni's Beer Hall, for the dainty & fastidious sports fan

Sam Ray Not said:
And they’re gonna add Hartenstein to the mix! Yikes. They’re looking bulletproof right now, but to paraphrase Michael Corleone, if history has taught us anything, it’s that the Thunder can be taken down. :)
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well, I believe in OKC, and the only thing that scares me is... Alex Caruso

hopefully, the Western Conference juggernaut does its work on the Thunder, while the Celtics do battle with the Grant William's of the world in the EC :redwine:
 
chilidawg

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Box score oddity, Atlanta had 4 starters with +/- between +21 and +32 in a 15 point win. No one else was in the positive! How does that work? Did they just play 4 guys for a good part of the game? Maybe the box score was fucked up.
 
lovegtm

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chilidawg said:
Box score oddity, Atlanta had 4 starters with +/- between +21 and +32 in a 15 point win. No one else was in the positive! How does that work? Did they just play 4 guys for a good part of the game? Maybe the box score was fucked up.
Click to expand...
Without looking...doesn't that just sound like the garbage time unit gave up points?
 
benhogan

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chilidawg said:
Well if 5 guys had a great +/- certainly.
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Kind of weird, but one game is noisy for +/- . You could dig through Play-by-Play, but ESPN boxes aren't really great.

Without watching, he shot poorly compared to the other starters + was on a different substitution pattern. Plus he played the last 2 minutes of garbage time when the Pels went on a 10-0 run.

FWIW, Cleaning the Glass takes out garbage time when doing their cumulative On-Off +/-

Good to see old friend Garrison Mathews still gunning away, 51% from 3 this season.
 
benhogan

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SemperFidelisSox said:
OKC should go get Giannis.
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Giannis would make every team better & OKC does have the assets to do whatever they damn well please. BUT they are kind of fine without him. Not sure which OKC players would be going out the door? + PickZ?

Presti has this team on an excellent trajectory. They draft well & develop.
Won the offseason by adding Caruso + Hartenstein (slight overpay). I'd continue on their path of subtle upgrades/trades by using 1 or 2 picks at a time rather than a splashy all-the-PickZ bonanza for Giannis, who is starting to pick up niggling injuries at the wrong time of year.

PLUS in-season trades will be trickier with the CBA rules, especially a large contract like Giannis, which would have multiple teams/players (kind of why KAT had to be done before the season)
 
HomeRunBaker

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chilidawg said:
Box score oddity, Atlanta had 4 starters with +/- between +21 and +32 in a 15 point win. No one else was in the positive! How does that work? Did they just play 4 guys for a good part of the game? Maybe the box score was fucked up.
Click to expand...
Atlanta outscored NO by 10-pts or so in the first 6-7 min of the 1Q and 3Q which accounts for much of this. Yes, you got me to comment on +/-, fuckin shoot me.
 
jon abbey

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benhogan said:
Giannis would make every team better & OKC does have the assets to do whatever they damn well please. BUT they are kind of fine without him. Not sure which OKC players would be going out the door? + PickZ?

Presti has this team on an excellent trajectory. They draft well & develop.
Won the offseason by adding Caruso + Hartenstein (slight overpay). I'd continue on their path of subtle upgrades/trades by using 1 or 2 picks at a time rather than a splashy all-the-PickZ bonanza for Giannis, who is starting to pick up niggling injuries at the wrong time of year.

PLUS in-season trades will be trickier with the CBA rules, especially a large contract like Giannis, which would have multiple teams/players (kind of why KAT had to be done before the season)
Click to expand...
Hartenstein is eligible to be traded Dec 15, it would be a relatively easy match after that.
 
Euclis20

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Since everyone is off tomorrow for election day, all 30 teams are playing tonight. I don't believe I've seen this before, all 15 start times are staggered by 15 minutes (PT):

91161
 
JCizzle

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Euclis20 said:
Since everyone is off tomorrow for election day, all 30 teams are playing tonight. I don't believe I've seen this before, all 15 start times are staggered by 15 minutes (PT):

View attachment 91161
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This is really cool, thanks for sharing. I was only tracking the Celtics tip, so I would’ve missed the early starts.
 
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