Non-revenue college sports thread

riboflav

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Yup. Discussions have already started at the high school level. Freshman teams will be the first to go in my area. Then, boys' programs. As the varsity coach of a "big sport" girls team I personally feel safe but am remorseful for those who will suffer. This was one of the first things I thought of when schools started shutting down.

EDIT: Football as a boys only sport will continue to operate as an anchor at our local high schools and shut down many, many Freshman teams and other boys' programs.
 
RedOctober3829

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UVM AD Jeff Schulman said that seniors from spring sports this year are welcome back, but they won't pay for their scholarships if they exceed the allotted scholarships for that particular sport. In other words they have to fit in all incoming recruits, returning underclassmen, and seniors in under the usual allotted scholarship limits. They won't pay extra for the seniors.
 
RedOctober3829

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Humphrey said:
No surprise given the Cal State University system is online-only in the fall.

Don't think the online-only edit affects UCLA and Cal-Berkeley; but places like Fresno State, Long Beach State and San Jose State it does.
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The UC system came out and said they would most likely be online only too. That is the system that UCLA and Cal are in.
 
ThePrideofShiner

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We're supposed to be finding out in the next day or two what the NCAA recommendations are. From what I've heard we are looking at game reductions varying by sport. Anywhere from four for soccer to 12 for softball.
 
RedOctober3829

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Several prominent coaches have put together a proposal to change college baseball in many ways. They're proposing to move the start of the season back to mid-March to give players more time to get ready for the season and to play in warmer weather. It will also decrease travel costs for the northern teams. Conference tournaments would be at the end of June and the NCAA tournament would start in July. The CWS would be in the middle of July. Fall ball would be much less of a commitment for the players as well.
 
Ale Xander

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SEC/FL Gators:

https://floridagators.com/news/2020/5/22/initial-group-of-uf-student-athletes-to-start-returning-to-campus.aspx
In the wake of the Southeastern Conference school presidents' decision to allow voluntary in-person athletics activities back on campuses across the league, the University Athletic Association announced Friday that Florida's student-athletes will start to return to campus on June 8.

Their return will happen in multiple phases over a period of several weeks and student-athletes competing in fall sports will arrive first, starting with the initial group of football players, who will begin physicals and COVID testing on May 26. Returning soccer and volleyball student-athletes will start coming back on June 15, and returning men's and women's basketball players on June 29. New student-athletes in football, soccer, men's and women's basketball and volleyball will begin arriving July 1.
 
Clears Cleaver

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Forde is as dumb as it comes. There are two non-P5 schools in the country to have more than 18 sports. Uconn and BYU. One has a huge endowment and the backing or a religion. The other kept operating at a loss in hopes in getting a P5 invite. Admitting that has failed meant cutting sports. If they cut football they'd have to cut even more.

Cincinnati had to cut soccer, it was applauded.

We are headed to a world where only P5 sports matter, but even then I suspect with football revenue down many will be cutting sports as well.
 
BaseballJones

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If UConn cut football, why would they have to cut other sports? Football generates revenue, but is a massive net pile of red ink.

UConn football generated $3.3m in revenue, but had $16.6m in expenses - net loss of $13.3 million.

Men's hoops: $6m in revenue, $9.9m in expenses - net loss of $3.9 million

Women's hoops: $4.5m in revenue, $8m in expenses - net loss of $3.5 million

Everything else: $2.8m in revenue, $25.8m in expenses - net loss of $23 million

If football was actually a net financial positive, we can make the case that keeping it allows other sports to be kept.

So there's no financial argument really that says cutting football means cutting other sports too. Cutting football would simply save the university $13.3 million, end of story.

But....there might be Title IX implications. I don't know if Title IX means that you need to have as at least as many women scholarships as men, meaning you could have more, or if there needs to be the exact same number. Because in the former case, you cut football and leave everything else and simply save a ton of money. But if it's the latter, cutting football means you have to either cut other sports or add a bunch of other men's sports in order to meet the Title IX requirements.

But I'm not sure which it is.
 
Humphrey

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Can UConn prove that playing several road guarantee games* a year (instead of having to travel to AAC locations before much smaller crowds) will allow them to more or less break even? I think not, but that's what they are trying to sell.

*most of those games, they'll get killed and generate little interest in the home games, most of which will be against weaker teams (they might get a few 2 for 1s and 3 for 1s, but most of the road games will contain no quid pro quo).
 
riboflav

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BaseballJones said:
If UConn cut football, why would they have to cut other sports? Football generates revenue, but is a massive net pile of red ink.

UConn football generated $3.3m in revenue, but had $16.6m in expenses - net loss of $13.3 million.

Men's hoops: $6m in revenue, $9.9m in expenses - net loss of $3.9 million

Women's hoops: $4.5m in revenue, $8m in expenses - net loss of $3.5 million

Everything else: $2.8m in revenue, $25.8m in expenses - net loss of $23 million

If football was actually a net financial positive, we can make the case that keeping it allows other sports to be kept.

So there's no financial argument really that says cutting football means cutting other sports too. Cutting football would simply save the university $13.3 million, end of story.

But....there might be Title IX implications. I don't know if Title IX means that you need to have as at least as many women scholarships as men, meaning you could have more, or if there needs to be the exact same number. Because in the former case, you cut football and leave everything else and simply save a ton of money. But if it's the latter, cutting football means you have to either cut other sports or add a bunch of other men's sports in order to meet the Title IX requirements.

But I'm not sure which it is.
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Isn't the argument always how much added revenue do hoops and football generate by the mere fact that they're the biggest advertisements/branding for the school? Or, do your figures include that?
 
MuzzyField

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Under Title IX doesn't the scholarship availability have to mirror the gender makeup of the campus and isn't just a 50/50 split? At many universities women are pushing 60% of the student body and this had been putting pressure on athletic departments to drop men's sports and/or add women's sports to maintain compliance long before current economic pressures via COVID-19.

The balancing of full scholarships vs. partial also plays in the equation for athletic departments.
 
BaseballJones

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riboflav said:
Isn't the argument always how much added revenue do hoops and football generate by the mere fact that they're the biggest advertisements/branding for the school? Or, do your figures include that?
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Yes for sure and in the case of UConn hoops, great value has been added to the school. UConn’s vast hoops success has helped raise the profile of the school considerably.

Football? Uh........ hahaha no.
 
RedOctober3829

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The problem for UConn is this. The state is completely broke and to my knowledge UConn has relied on a good amount of state funds to help fund the athletic department. If I'm wrong about this please let me know. They also don't generate enough revenue around their gameday experience. Attendance is so awful. The TV contract and revenue sharing in the AAC didn't come close to bridging the gap. I read that when games were on ESPN+ that the schools were responsible for the production costs. Going to FBS has proven to be the wrong decision for UConn. If they had just done what Villanova has done and kept football FCS and left everything else in the Big East they would be much better off.

Humphrey said:
Can UConn prove that playing several road guarantee games* a year (instead of having to travel to AAC locations before much smaller crowds) will allow them to more or less break even? I think not, but that's what they are trying to sell.

*most of those games, they'll get killed and generate little interest in the home games, most of which will be against weaker teams (they might get a few 2 for 1s and 3 for 1s, but most of the road games will contain no quid pro quo).
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Here are their guarantee games right now through 2025. Looks like they will play 1-2 a year. The rest are either home and homes or FCS.
2020-Virginia, Ole Miss
2021-Clemson, UCF
2022-Michigan
2023-Tennessee
2024-none yet
2025-Ohio State

They have home and homes upcoming with BC, Syracuse, UNC, Duke, NC State, Maryland, Utah State, Purdue, Army, UMass, Ball State, Buffalo, Middle Tennessee, and San Jose State. They also have buy games scheduled with Maine, Central CT(2), Holy Cross, and Lafayette(2). They just added a 4-game home and home with Temple, a home game with Wyoming in 2021, and a home-and-home with FIU.
 
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Freddy Linn

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Brown just transitioned 11 varsity teams to club status - m/w fencing, m/w golf, women's skiing, m/w squash, women's equestrian, and men's track, field, and cross country. Upgrading coed sailing and women's sailing to varsity status. Net reduction in number of varsity teams from 38 to 29.
 
Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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Freddy Linn said:
Brown just transitioned 11 varsity teams to club status - m/w fencing, m/w golf, women's skiing, m/w squash, women's equestrian, and men's track, field, and cross country. Upgrading coed sailing and women's sailing to varsity status. Net reduction in number of varsity teams from 38 to 29.
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Not COVID related. It's just because they suck at all sports, year after year.
 
BaseballJones

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Dropping men's track and field (and XC) is kind of a big deal. I feel bad for all the athletes but usually sports like equestrian and fencing are more fringe sports. T&F teams are large and and prominent at most schools. Surprised by this move.
 
SoxJox

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Equestrian is "fringe" only if considering NCAA D1 and D2 institutions that have scholarship teams, of which there are 19 and 4, respectively. However, if you expand to consider club teams, there are over 400 D1, D2, and D3 institutions that are represented in the IHSA (Intercollegiate Horse Show Association). Just like their NCAA counterparts, the teams have Hunter and Western seat classes, and the association is divided into 8 competitive zones (sub-divided into 40 regions), within which competitions serve to qualify for regional, zone, and national championships. The Association is comprised of more than 10,000 riders.
 
snowmanny

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Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat said:
Not COVID related. It's just because they suck at all sports, year after year.
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Well they had the third most varsity sports in the country. They encouraged widespread participation rather than greatness. As someone who has a child who was in fact a varsity athlete in one of the cut sports and would have been happier if it had been a club sport I think on one level it is a good move. Cutting Men's T&F is weird (my brother immediately pointed out that it is inexpensive, has relatively high minority participation, and was the original in for Brown to the future Ivy League at the 1949 heptagonals) but that was a Title IX necessity, apparently. They need to find some sport that they can recruit at a high level like Harvard with crew and Columbia with fencing and Dartmouth with chugging.
 
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snowmanny said:
Well they had the third most varsity sports in the country. They encouraged widespread participation rather than greatness. As someone who has a child who was in fact a varsity athlete in one of the cut sports and would have been happier if it had been a club sport I think on one level it is a good move. Cutting Men's T&F is weird (my brother immediately pointed out that it is inexpensive, has relatively high minority participation, and was the original in for Brown to the future Ivy League at the 1949 heptagonals) but that was a Title IX necessity, apparently. They need to find some sport that they can recruit at a high level like Harvard with crew and Columbia with fencing and Dartmouth with chugging.
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This is a more thoughtful response than my drive-by post, which was basically just an alum wishing we won something every now and then. If only they focused on chugging 40 years ago, I could have been a contender.
 
jon abbey

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snowmanny said:
They need to find some sport that they can recruit at a high level like Harvard with crew and Columbia with fencing and Dartmouth with chugging.
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Harvard and Columbia have natural advantages there, Harvard obviously has the Charles close by and NYC is the place to train for top fencers, so Columbia’s only competition is NYU and St John’s and they’re the most prestigious of the three.
 
snowmanny

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That’s a good point. Of course Harvard and some other school invented intercollegiate athletics with rowing, but the first regatta was on Lake Winnipesaukee. Interestingly and maybe building on your point, Brown raised sailing to varsity status, so maybe they feel they have an advantage there with the Bay and Newport. I remember when Tufts was the sailing power.
 
VORP Speed

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Brown was a men’s crew powerhouse when Gladstone was the coach in the late 80’s/early 90’s. Many national titles, the best program in the country over almost a decade. They’re still consistently in the grand final (top 6) at IRAs every year. Women’s crew probably has more national titles than any other program over the last 20 years or so.

Brown is good at crew.
 
luckiestman

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Seems weird



View: https://twitter.com/JustinWolfers/status/1268286589026873347?s=20


Justin Wolfers

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Brown University's efforts at "ensuring diversity and inclusion," have led it to cut the men's track team and add sailing(!) [source: https://athletics-excellence.brown.edu/revising-rosters …]

The number of scholarships given to rich kid sports is the real affirmative action.

I forgot the Ivy's don't offer sports scholarships, tho they do allow the athletic department to put a thumb (often a fist) on the scale for admissions decisions.

The problem with adding a sailing team is that it adds more ways to admit otherwise underqualified white students.
 
Awesome Fossum

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There's a college baseball invitational tournament this week/weekend in Bryan, Texas (right by College Station). Players from all college levels are being split into four teams. Games today at 7 ET and 10 ET on ESPN2; Friday and Saturday are pay per view.

The players, coaches, umpires and other event staff arrived in Bryan on Monday and were tested for the coronavirus. They are being quarantined at a hotel through Saturday and allowed outside only to go to and from the ballpark.

The players were split into four teams and are mostly from Division I schools, but junior colleges and NAIA schools also are represented. Among the coaches are former major leaguers LaTroy Hawkins and Drew Sutton.
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https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/29262339/college-baseball-tourney-taking-place-week
https://csbi2020.com/
 
RedOctober3829

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I believe that one sport UConn will be getting rid of is men's golf. 3 of my father's golf club members are either on the team or on the coaching staff. The member of the coaching staff said that he was let go.
 
RedOctober3829

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The Colonial has come up with an interesting scheduling model for non hoops Olympic sports. As long as you play the minimum number of games that the NCAA mandates, you can play whoever you want. They are not requiring teams to play games against other conference members to reduce travel costs and also for health/safety reasons.

https://www.wect.com/2020/06/03/caa-makes-scheduling-change-olympic-sports-/
 
Humphrey

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RedOctober3829 said:
The Colonial has come up with an interesting scheduling model for non hoops Olympic sports. As long as you play the minimum number of games that the NCAA mandates, you can play whoever you want. They are not requiring teams to play games against other conference members to reduce travel costs and also for health/safety reasons.

https://www.wect.com/2020/06/03/caa-makes-scheduling-change-olympic-sports-/
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Places like Northeastern and Hofstra must be doing cartwheels over this.
 
snowmanny

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Freddy Linn said:
Brown just transitioned 11 varsity teams to club status - m/w fencing, m/w golf, women's skiing, m/w squash, women's equestrian, and men's track, field, and cross country. Upgrading coed sailing and women's sailing to varsity status. Net reduction in number of varsity teams from 38 to 29.
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And...they just brought back Men’s T&F, citing diversity, etc.

One has to wonder who was in the room when the decision was made.
 
BaseballJones

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UConn announcing which programs will be cut tomorrow. It's not going to be pretty. I feel terrible for the student-athletes and coaches who are going to get the axe.
 
RedOctober3829

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BaseballJones said:
UConn announcing which programs will be cut tomorrow. It's not going to be pretty. I feel terrible for the student-athletes and coaches who are going to get the axe.
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Sports on the chopping block after this year: Men's tennis, men's cross country, men's swimming, and women's rowing. Men's golf is saved because they've got at least $900,000 committed from alums and donors for the next 5 years. My dad gave to them and spoke to the coach yesterday.
 
BaseballJones

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RedOctober3829 said:
Sports on the chopping block after this year: Men's tennis, men's cross country, men's swimming, and women's rowing. Men's golf is saved because they've got at least $900,000 committed from alums and donors for the next 5 years. My dad gave to them and spoke to the coach yesterday.
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Looking for that official announcement. How did you hear about these sports? From your dad's convo with Coach Pezzino?

And does this mean they have this one last season? (I sure hope so)
 
BaseballJones

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@Dan Murfman - Are you a UConn alum?

From that article...

"During the public-speaking portion of the Board of Trustees meeting on Wednesday, Jennifer Sanford, women’s rowing coach, revealed that Benedict informed her on Tuesday afternoon that her program would be one of those ticketed for elimination in the forthcoming proposal.

Sanford said she did not see it coming, that she thought her program would be safe because the scholarships and opportunities it offered female athletes were necessary to offset football and meet Title IX requirements. She also said she hoped her rowers would be able to compete next season.

While some programs - including men’s golf and track and field - were able to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars in funds over the last few weeks, likely helping to save the programs, Sanford said she didn’t “rally the troops” thinking her program was safe. She said she was informed by Benedict at 1:30 p.m. Tuesday her program could be eliminated."

- - -

Oof. I know that the swim team and T&F team and golf team worked really hard to raise money to keep their sports alive. Looks like it didn't help for men's swimming, but may have helped men's golf. To not "rally the troops" and raise money is a gigantic error by the rowing coach.
 
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