Noah's Arc: Song back, assigned to GVL.

soxhop411

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Red Sox still have not heard back from the government on Noah Songs status
Two wild cards that could push the system even higher are pitchers Noah Song (whose status is in doubt due to a military obligation) and Jay Groome (the former first-round pick returning from Tommy John surgery).

While Crockett had no update on Song’s status – “I wish I did,” he said – he was bullish on Groome’s future. After a healthy return late last season, Groome pitched through instructional league and is expected to be fully healthy this spring. Whether he breaks camp on an active roster is simply a matter of how the Red Sox choose to monitor his workload.
https://theathletic.com/1618810/2020/02/19/red-sox-minor-leagues-season-primer/
it’s no shock the government is slow. When I had an internship with the AOUSC back in 2015 they were still using lotus notes.
 
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NJ_Sox_Fan

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I really hope Song is allowed to play. Watched him last summer in Annapolis, and he was awesome.
 

joe dokes

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JimD

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Am I the only one thinking that maybe Song should just get his service obligation out of the way now? MiLB is probably not happening this year and may still be a mess next year.
 

richgedman'sghost

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Am I the only one thinking that maybe Song should just get his service obligation out of the way now? MiLB is probably not happening this year and may still be a mess next year.
Yeah I saw on Twitter that MLB has decided and will announce soon that there will be no minor league season this year. Instead there will be expanded rosters and a developmental league in Fl. So I agree, get this year out of the way at least and maybe he will be able to get out early next year
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I'm surprised he took this long to withdraw the waiver request. There's no minor league baseball this year, and who knows what next year would look like. What does he need to delay his service for at this point?
 

E5 Yaz

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Might this lead to good news on Song? Or are the cases different?

Rookie cornerback Cameron Kinley has been granted his request to play in the NFL for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin announced Tuesday.
Austin announced in a statement that he approved a plan by the Department of the Navy to enlist Kinley in the Inactive Ready Reserve "for the duration of his football career." The news comes after Kinley's request to delay his Navy commission to play in the NFL had initially been denied.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31771373/secretary-defense-allows-cb-cameron-kinley-attend-tampa-bay-buccaneers-camp
 

Just a bit outside

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I don’t think these cases are similar. The cases are different because Kinley was not commissioned yet and there was a policy put in place after Song graduated for this purpose. Song is a commissioned officer and at flight school so he can might have a chance after finishing flight school in 2022.
 

soxhop411

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View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1628470784736870404?

Pete Abraham is trying really hard to be the next Dan Shaughnessy. Please Pete, explain to us how this is an embarrassment? \

A: I am sure the Sox were constantly asking the DOD for updates on his status prior to the R5 draft...
B: Given that PHi is a contender this year, I highly Highly doubt he sticks on the 40 man the entire year, especially since he wont be going straight to the MLB team.

View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1628474145871724544


Seriously WTH kind of "reporting" is this?

View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1628476899688169472


You are a freaking journalist Pete.. Act like one!
 
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BaseballJones

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I'd actually love an explanation for why the Sox could never get Song released from his Navy commitment, but Philly managed it in short order. There obviously IS an explanation (maybe even a really good one). I would love to know what it is.
 

mauf

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Noah Song was probably a more worthy use of a 40-man spot than Kaleb Ort, but neither is likely to contribute at the major-league level. It’s hardly an “embarrassment.”
 

Comfortably Lomb

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He's 25, turning 26 in May. Hasn't thrown a pitch for a professional team since 2019 and that was A-ball (17 innings!). And the Phillies are burning a 40-man spot on him. Good luck to him, I guess.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I'd actually love an explanation for why the Sox could never get Song released from his Navy commitment, but Philly managed it in short order. There obviously IS an explanation (maybe even a really good one). I would love to know what it is.
My guess would be that he served enough of his commitment and the Navy decided to let him go (early? Don't know how long he was supposed to be on duty). From what I remember, when he left the Sox, he was headed to a flight school that was supposed to last 18-24 months. That would imply that the soonest he would be available would have been last season, assuming the Navy wasn't going to ship him off somewhere to get some use out of that two years of training. Seems they did that and now another year later, they've decided they don't need him anymore.

Either that, or the Secretary of the Navy is a Phillies fan.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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My bet is he gets returned and it'll be a major embarassment for Abraham. And he'll try and figure out a way to spin it and blame it on Bloom.
 

Harry Hooper

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Isn't this bad news for the Phillies? Weren't they better off with some form of exempt status for Song for a few months?
 

SouthernBoSox

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View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1628470784736870404?

Pete Abraham is trying really hard to be the next Dan Shaughnessy. Please Pete, explain to us how this is an embarrassment? \

A: I am sure the Sox were constantly asking the DOD for updates on his status prior to the R5 draft...
B: Given that PHi is a contender this year, I highly Highly doubt he sticks on the 40 man the entire year, especially since he wont be going straight to the MLB team.

View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1628474145871724544
Pete Abraham, once again, has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. He offers zero explanation of why this happened, why it's embarrassing, or the mechanics of the situation. There isn't one single person on the planet who wanted to protect Song on the 40. He hasn't pitched in 3 years and there was never any guarantee he was going to be eligible. Would have been insane.

I'd say, unless they are able to pull off some sketchy injury stuff, the chances of him being back in Red Sox control are very high.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Yeah, I don’t get how this is embarrassing. You take some chances and are bound to lose some talent in these drafts. Let’s wait until this guy throws his first big league pitch before determining this is a huge embarrassing disaster. I mean, maybe it will be, but it hardly qualifies now.
 

Mantush

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What’s the likelihood that someone who hasn’t thrown a professional pitch since 2019 has developed enough to make an MLB roster? How many pitchers can make the jump immediately to MLB after being drafted? In my mind, Song would’ve needed to demonstrate he could do that to justify keeping him on the 40 man. Ask Craig Hansen what being rushed can do to your development.
 

JM3

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This seems kind of like the Red Sox best case scenario with Song?
 

nattysez

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It is very hard for me to believe that a DD-led team pushing their chips into the middle of the table is going to have room for Noah Song on their 26-man roster all year. Miracles happen, but this just seems very unlikely.

PeteAbe's tweets read like someone trying to maintain good relations with a couple of sources on a likely contender.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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This seems kind of like the Red Sox best case scenario with Song?
Assuming the Phillies don't find a way to stash him (IL with some sort of "injury" related to his time off), I think you're right.

To protect Song, the Sox could have done what the Phillies did after drafting him, which was adding him to the 40-man and then putting him on the military restricted list to free up his roster spot. But the result of doing that would be that he would now have to go on the Red Sox 40-man to start the season. Instead, if the Phillies send him back, the Sox get another year of Song in their system without taking up a 40-man spot. That might be important in gauging whether he's worth protecting next year or not.
 

BravesField

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It is very hard for me to believe that a DD-led team pushing their chips into the middle of the table is going to have room for Noah Song on their 26-man roster all year. Miracles happen, but this just seems very unlikely.

PeteAbe's tweets read like someone trying to maintain good relations with a couple of sources on a likely contender.
I'm with you on this. Phillies are all in for 2023. If I were a betting man, I'd say Noah gets returned by the end of May.
 

jon abbey

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Pretty sure if the Phillies can’t keep him on their 26 man roster, they can trade his rights to a team that can before offering him back to BOS. This rarely happens but this is of course a very unusual case.
 

JM3

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Pretty sure if the Phillies can’t keep him on their 26 man roster, they can trade his rights to a team that can before offering him back to BOS. This rarely happens but this is of course a very unusual case.
Yeah...

Clubs may trade a player selected in the Rule 5 Draft, but the same restrictions apply to the player's new organization. However, a club may also work out a trade with the Rule 5 pick's original club to acquire his full rights, thereby allowing him to be optioned to the Minors under traditional circumstances.
https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/rule-5-draft
 

joe dokes

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To protect Song, the Sox could have done what the Phillies did after drafting him, which was adding him to the 40-man and then putting him on the military restricted list to free up his roster spot. But the result of doing that would be that he would now have to go on the Red Sox 40-man to start the season. Instead, if the Phillies send him back, the Sox get another year of Song in their system without taking up a 40-man spot. That might be important in gauging whether he's worth protecting next year or not.
So if he comes back will Abraham's tweet say, "Sox pull fast one by getting Phillies to do roster gymnastics that would have cost Sox a player on the 40man."
 

geoflin

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If the Red Sox had put Song on the 40 man roster to protect him they would have had to leave somebody else off. Who knows, including Pete Abe, if they would have lost that player.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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If the Red Sox had put Song on the 40 man roster to protect him they would have had to leave somebody else off. Who knows, including Pete Abe, if they would have lost that player.
Not necessarily, because of the military restricted list. They could have added him to the 40-man and immediately removed him again to add that other hypothetical player. But they'd be in the same position as the Phils are now, having to add him at the expense of someone else by the end of spring training.


Matt Gelb has one more clarification about Song. He hasn't been discharged from the Navy. He's been moved from active duty to reserve, so he's now free to play ball again but could be called up again in the future.

View: https://twitter.com/MattGelb/status/1628500964943572998
 

gehrig

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To keep Song, the Sox would've had to add him to the 40 for a minute, and then take him off and put him on the military list. He would have stayed on that list until he got discharged, which was expected to be after the 2024 season. He would accrue major league service time while on the list, so the Sox would have lost two minimum salary seasons on his free agency clock. The other cost is that he would've been on the 40 man roster as soon as he rejoined the organization.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Not shocking- but it should be- that there’s better and deeper understanding of this here on SOSH than mainstream sports journalism. Sad.
 

johnlos

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According to the ESPN piece if he doesn't make the Phils' opening day roster he can be claimed off waivers by any team:
If Song does not make the Phillies out of camp, they would place him on waivers, where any team could claim him and place him on its big league roster. Were Song to go unclaimed, he could be returned to the Red Sox for $50,000, and they could send him to the minor leagues.
So if I'm reading this correctly DD basically is screwing around with the Sox since there was no chance they kept him but now some bad team could free up a roster spot, grab him, and then send him down. Do I have that right?
 

dhappy42

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According to the ESPN piece if he doesn't make the Phils' opening day roster he can be claimed off waivers by any team:

So if I'm reading this correctly DD basically is screwing around with the Sox since there was no chance they kept him but now some bad team could free up a roster spot, grab him, and then send him down. Do I have that right?
I think — but am in no way sure — that any team that claims Song off waivers would have to keep him on their 26-man roster. If not, then the Sox could take him back.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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According to the ESPN piece if he doesn't make the Phils' opening day roster he can be claimed off waivers by any team:

So if I'm reading this correctly DD basically is screwing around with the Sox since there was no chance they kept him but now some bad team could free up a roster spot, grab him, and then send him down. Do I have that right?
Almost. Any team could claim him off waivers, but the same rules apply to them as the Phillies. He has to remain on the 26-man big league roster for the whole season. They can't send him down this season without repeating the process (waivers, offer him back to the Sox, outright assignment to their minor leagues).
 

johnlos

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Almost. Any team could claim him off waivers, but the same rules apply to them as the Phillies. He has to remain on the 26-man big league roster for the whole season. They can't send him down this season without repeating the process (waivers, offer him back to the Sox, outright assignment to their minor leagues).
Ok great. Maybe we will get him back. Then again 6'4" guys with 1st round pedigrees don't grow on trees so I could imagine a team like the Rockies or Athletics taking a shot. Unclear how you develop him but free is a nice price.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Oh….. unlikely he’ll end up back. More likely a team like Cincinnati or DC hold him.
My memory is actually DC taking him in the Rule 5
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Oh….. unlikely he’ll end up back. More likely a team like Cincinnati or DC hold him.
My memory is actually DC taking him in the Rule 5
I don't know. Seems like most teams claiming a guy on rule 5 do so because they have the whole off-season to try to construct the roster around trying to carry him. Even teams with no intention of contending probably don't have that sort of flexibility in the last week or so of spring training (when Song would likely become available) to take on a season-long obligation. At least not for a player who might not be able to meaningfully contribute.

And even among the guys that do stick with a team for a whole season, the number of them that go on to significant careers are still pretty small. Way more Adam Sterns out there than Garrett Whitlocks, let alone Johan Santanas. And nearly all of those guys weren't coming off missing three straight seasons not throwing a pitch or doing any meaningful baseball activities.