NLDS: Cubs vs Nationals

bob burda

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Maddon using Davis for the Gossage save - you can hate him all you want, but who else would have the guts to do it and pull it off?
 

pedro1918

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So, about that passed ball K that Wieters threw away:

From Rule 6.03(a).

“If a batter strikes at a ball and misses and swings so hard he carries the bat all the way around and, in the umpire’s judgment, unintentionally hits the catcher or the ball in back of him on the backswing, it shall be called a strike only (not interference). The ball will be dead, however, and no runner shall advance on the play.”

When Baez's back swing hit Wieters, the play and the inning should have been over.
 

cromulence

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That shit was ugly, except for that last pitch. Nasty.

I love baseball so much. Of course it was Harper.
 

loshjott

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Blown early lead
Scherzer melts down
Multiple errors
Harper K’s to end game

Can’t have a more painful loss for Nats
The fact that they kept chipping away after the 8-4 deficit actually makes it a bit better for me. But they really played a shitty game overall.

Goats: Wieters, Gio, Scherzer, Zimmerman and the rest of the roster tied for 5th except Taylor and Murphy.
 

sean1562

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Dusty needs to go. No reason for Werth to be playing in every single game. Pathetic showing by the Nats.
 

sean1562

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time to throw myself completely into offseason speculation. i dont want the yankees to win but that is pretty much it. washington sports teams are fucking soul crushing
 

SemperFidelisSox

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If Harper rejects any extension talks over the winter, you almost have to think about trading him, right? Or roll the dice and hope for one more October run with him before he leaves.
 

cromulence

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The funny thing is that Wieters was awful in the playoffs as an Oriole as well. Dual O's/Nats fans (not that uncommon) must be ready for him to leave town.
 

soxhop411

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I don’t care. You fire dusty tonight


Also. The nationals have been cursed. The expos have also been cursed. So it seems like the expos curse carried over to NATSTOWN
 

jon abbey

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If Harper rejects any extension talks over the winter, you almost have to think about trading him, right? Or roll the dice and hope for one more October run with him before he leaves.
Pretty hard to make that move when you have Scherzer and Strasburg, the Orioles are the ones who should really do that with Machado but I doubt they will.
 

loshjott

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Crazy how on a high leverage play you just go ahead and challenge even if you're not sure if it will be overturned.
The probability of scoring at least one run is actually higher at the start of an inning vs runners at first and second with two outs,
.275 to .231.

Having Turner lead off the ninth rather than hit in that situation wasn't really a key play.
 

DeadlySplitter

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The probability of scoring at least one run is actually higher at the start of an inning vs runners at first and second with two outs,
.275 to .231.

Having Turner lead off the ninth rather than hit in that situation wasn't really a key play.
there is something to be said about Davis being on the ropes and getting the top of the 9th to reset.
 

VORP Speed

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The probability of scoring at least one run is actually higher at the start of an inning vs runners at first and second with two outs,
.275 to .231.

Having Turner lead off the ninth rather than hit in that situation wasn't really a key play.
The probability of scoring a run is much higher with 2 outs than it is with 3 outs. You still get to hit the next inning either way.
 

Lowrielicious

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The fact that they kept chipping away after the 8-4 deficit actually makes it a bit better for me. But they really played a shitty game overall.

Goats: Wieters, Gio, Scherzer, Zimmerman and the rest of the roster tied for 5th except Taylor and Murphy.
Lind rolling over first pitch for a DP that meant at the very least Davis could stretch to the ninth inning.
 

dhellers

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So, about that passed ball K that Wieters threw away:

From Rule 6.03(a).

“If a batter strikes at a ball and misses and swings so hard he carries the bat all the way around and, in the umpire’s judgment, unintentionally hits the catcher or the ball in back of him on the backswing, it shall be called a strike only (not interference). The ball will be dead, however, and no runner shall advance on the play.”

When Baez's back swing hit Wieters, the play and the inning should have been over.
OMFG -- that is correct (http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2015/official_baseball_rules.pdf, page 77).

The inning should of been over!

Assuming this was a reviewable play, then Baker's failure to demand a review (and if that means he gets tossed, that's worth it) is a MUCH worse mistake that Girardi's failure to review the hit by pitch!

Does this get Baker fired?

And, although he still sucked, you can't crucify Wieters. He was correct, and his subsequent suckitude should never have happened.
 

dhellers

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Pedro, Rollins and Sheffield all killing Wieters in post game. The bat did hit him, but before that he let a ball he should have blocked get by him.
True, but it shouldn't of mattered. If Lobaton can be erased on a split second foot liftoff, then a hit by bat should be an EASY call to make (ball is dead, strikeout occurs, end of inning).

If I am Senators fan (and that's what we should call them, since from the 20s to the 50s their official name was "Nationals" but everyone called them "Senators")... I am PISSED!
 
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shawnrbu

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The play is not reviewable. The Nats should be allowed to file a protest. If integrity of the game matters, the game should be replayed with the Cubs ahead 5 to 4 going into the bottom of the 5th.
 

dhellers

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The play is not reviewable. The Nats should be allowed to file a protest. If integrity of the game matters, the game should be replayed with the Cubs lead 5 to 4 going into the bottom of the 5th.
Why isn't it reviewable?

But assuming you are right: Dusty should of risked getting tossed. Complain long and hard -- so as to give the umps time to check with rules official. And if the umps don't take the time, then you really do have an issue. RIght now the league can say "too late, should of dealt with in at the time".
 

jon abbey

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They are saying on MLBN that the above rule doesn't apply in this case because the ball was already past Wieters when he got hit by the bat.
 

dhellers

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They are saying on MLBN that the above rule doesn't apply in this case because the ball was already past Wieters when he got hit by the bat.
I don't see anything like that in the rule: t (http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2015/official_baseball_rules.pdf, page 77).

ANd it is not an irrelvant act. Getting hit by the bat would, more than likely, slow down the catchers reaction time. Get rid of that slowdown, and his chances of getting the ball and tossing the runner out at first are much better. IOW: there is a good reason for the rule, regardless of the timeing of "past ball" and "hit by bat".

BTW: I live in DC metro, and have a lot of Senators fans workmates. So I feel their pain.
 

LogansDad

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I'm disturbed at how quickly I went from liking the Cubs and enjoying watching them play, to... not hating them, but certainly being on the other side of ambivalent from liking them. Annoyed, maybe? Is this how non-Sox fans felt after 2004, or did they already pretty much hate us?
 

sean1562

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If Harper rejects any extension talks over the winter, you almost have to think about trading him, right? Or roll the dice and hope for one more October run with him before he leaves.
This woudl make sense but I doubt they do it. Woudl totally depend on what you could get for him as well though. The idea would be an OF of Goodwin/Eaton/Taylor/Robles? Harper is a phenomenal player but has only one totally healthy season. If he were to have another seaon next year like this one(missing significant time with injury) I would not want to give him a $400 million deal.
 

dcmissle

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My gut says this series cost Baker an extension. It's not entirely fair, but there is plenty of room for improvement (though ownership, which spends lavishly on players, must pony up for a manager too). Tonight was not a soul crushing "curse" loss; it was systemic failure, a complete failure to post. Come back when you are ready to play like professionals.
 

dcmissle

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I'm disturbed at how quickly I went from liking the Cubs and enjoying watching them play, to... not hating them, but certainly being on the other side of ambivalent from liking them. Annoyed, maybe? Is this how non-Sox fans felt after 2004, or did they already pretty much hate us?
Probably, is my guess. Sweet Caroline, pink hats, and the unworldly success enjoyed by all Boston teams did not help.

If don't think the Cubs have the pitching to repeat. But they are extremely resourceful, well managed and playing with house money. That makes them very dangerous.
 

loshjott

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My gut says this series cost Baker an extension. It's not entirely fair, but there is plenty of room for improvement (though ownership, which spends lavishly on players, must pony up for a manager too). Tonight was not a soul crushing "curse" loss; it was systemic failure, a complete failure to post. Come back when you are ready to play like professionals.
Strasburg was great. Taylor was clutch. The others under performed overall.
 

B H Kim

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One comment from the game: having attended Nationals deciding game playoff losses to the Cardinals, Dodgers, and now Cubs, I can say without question that the visiting Cubs fans were the most obnoxious. There was a group of a half dozen Cubs fans at the end of the game just standing at the top of the stairs to my section, yelling at every Nats fan as they were leaving. I was actually amazed that no one took a swing at them.
 

riboflav

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And this I agree with. (Though by the letter of the law - and the super-slowmo replay - he was clearly out.)

Frame-by-frame replays are brutal. Almost as bad as "was that a catch."
Same thing happens in the NBA and drives me crazy. Every time a defender slaps the ball out of the ball handler's hands the ball is awarded to the ball handler's team... and it's always been this way. Well, now with replay being frame by frame, it always shows the slap followed by the ball rolling (even trickling) off the ball handler's finger tips. Think about it, if you slap the ball while it's my hands, who will actually be in contact with the ball last? Me.
 

riboflav

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I don’t care. You fire dusty tonight


Also. The nationals have been cursed. The expos have also been cursed. So it seems like the expos curse carried over to NATSTOWN
They're not cursed and neither were the Red Sox. In the Nats case, they have a horrible manager who bats a terrible hitter second just because it's where he feels most comfortable. It's his one flaw among hundreds.
 

CaptainLaddie

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DUMBSTY. IS. THE. WORST.

Sorry, but the Nats deserve everything they get with him. Dumbsty is probably the worst manager (who's always working) of the last twenty years, all things considered. He's shit at lineups. He's shit at managing starter workloads. He ruined Prior and Wood. He sucks. The Nats deserve this by hiring this stupid asshole.
 

DeadlySplitter

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DUMBSTY. IS. THE. WORST.

Sorry, but the Nats deserve everything they get with him. Dumbsty is probably the worst manager (who's always working) of the last twenty years, all things considered. He's shit at lineups. He's shit at managing starter workloads. He ruined Prior and Wood. He sucks. The Nats deserve this by hiring this stupid asshole.
can't disagree but it's insane the Cubs won this game still. Nats deserve a break at some point.

I do think Baker doesn't survive.
 

joe dokes

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So are "Lobotony" and "Lobatonized" acceptable proxies for "getting picked off in a crucial spot?"