NLCS Giants Vs Cardinals Game Thread
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Ace of MLB Stats @AceballStats 2m2 minutes ago
The #SFGiants are the first team to win a postseason game on a walk-off error since the #Yankees on October 17, 2009 (ALCS game 2).
The #SFGiants are the first team to win a postseason game on a walk-off error since the #Yankees on October 17, 2009 (ALCS game 2).
Is it just my imagination, or is there a massive increase in pitching fielding/throwing errors in the post-season in general?Grunherz54 said:
Likely it's just magnified by the importance of the games and possibly the increased use of sac bunts etc. in the post season, but year after year it seems to be a big theme of the postseason.
I don't always root for the Giants to win, but when I do, they're playing the Cardinals (or MFY)Lars The Wanderer said:
I think he represents Everyman. I.e., the casual fan. Or even the passionate fans. They "love" players, they understand concepts like hitting them where they ain't. So, they will enjoy HR, who doesn't challenge them, but makes them feel that they understand what's going on. If that's not their reasoning, then I give up.soxhop411 said:
Took a break to eat dinner. I was a bit surprised to see that Choate's throws over to first to keep runners close were sidearm, like his deliveries to the plate. Usually sidearmers revert to a "normal" throw on throws to bases, I think. So, one too many sidearm throws, Choate.
Kudos to Juan Perez, one of the worst regular season hitters you'll ever see, for two big hits now.
Kudos to Juan Perez, one of the worst regular season hitters you'll ever see, for two big hits now.
It absolutely does. When obstruction is called on a fielder and a runner is awarded one or more bases for it the fielder gets charged with an error. So I'm at least 99% sure Middlebrooks got charged with an error.E5 Yaz said:
I honestly don't know if this is the right answer.... but I seem to remember a rule that you can "never assume the second out of a double play". Since Pedey made the amazing play in the first place and got the first runner at home, I don't think an error could be scored on the play, regardless of how ridiculous the rest of it ended up being.E5 Yaz said:
I am just catching up on the thread now, but I happened to be listening on the radio when Ishi got the hit. Goodness, was that a great call. It was also more accurately called than Buck, whose voice seemed to imply Grichuk would catch it, then seemed to be spitting out in disgust that all three runs would score and the Cardinals still had NOTHING.nattysez said:
Here's the comparison: http://m.mlb.com/sf/video/topic/47078350/v36806879/must-c-clutch-ishikawas-basesclearing-double/?c_id=sf
(Apologies if this has been posted before, I'm responding as I go along in the thread.)
I wasn't at the park today, but you could tell that the wind was horrifying. Wind in and of itself isn't unusual, it's a breezy place. The direction of the wind, blowing hard from right field straight out toward left, was extremely unusual. I don't think I've ever seen Pence get so discombobulated out there, and he's played basically every inning of every game in right field since the day he arrived. I was really surprised that it wasn't more of a factor (though I guess two pivotal plays and possibly a wind-assisted HR were fairly impactful).
Great call by Jon Miller. I heard Duane Kuiper make a similar call this season ("A scores, B scores, they all score!"). Maybe he got it from an even earlier Miller call, I don't know. Giants have so many great announcers. One minor quibble: Miller says Ishi's hit was to the deepest part of the ball park. It gets a bit deeper to the left of where the ball hit, over in center/right center field, 421 feet. Did they make it 421 to exceed Fenway by a foot? During the game, I didn't realize it was that close to the 421 mark, however. Leave it to the Giants to go into a hitting coma after that huge hit, but they won so it doesn't matter.gaelgirl said:
A few thoughts from the thread:
Panda is basically skinny this season. This is pretty much as good as it gets for him. He was thinner when he came into the year (he always gains weight during the season), but even now he's looking fairly good for him. He loses a lot of skills when he's too big, but he's probably 10-15 pounds under that point right now. He's a remarkable fielder (today's miscue notwithstanding), and extra weight really affects that. So far, he's been great. He's a lot quicker on the field than you'd imagine. However, his speed drops considerably as his weight increases. He's a slow panda at the moment, and that is frustrating. Oh, as for the strikezone? Pablo will anger and amaze fans. But, he came into the season promising to be more patient at the plate and it was an experiment that did not work. After a while, he went back to his free-swinging ways and it was far more successful. It drives you nuts until he hits a double on a ball four inches off the ground or at his eyeballs. It's just part of the Panda mystique.
Hunter Pence is the weirdest ballplayer I've ever watched. Basically he does nothing conventionally. His throws look painful, he runs strangely, his routes to the ball are awkward sometimes, he tends to bug his eyes out or have his tongue hanging out while he fields, he wears his pants bunched practically up to his thigh and his swing is weird. For the person who said here that he "didn't realize" Pence was odd: have you ever watched him play? It's painful, but deliciously effective. I adore Hunter Pence. He's awesome.
Bruce Bochy is a good manager. He's even a great manager. This series has been ridiculous, particularly in how he's handling the pitching staff. Leaving Hudson in there today was odd. His use of Strickland has not been nearly as judicious as I would personally have hoped. Hopefully he regains his senses by tomorrow's game.
(Side note: Strickland deserves a spot on the roster, but it's going to be feast or famine when he's used. He's struck out five and given up four home runs and one hit. So when he's in, it's likely to be a strikeout or a home run, nothing in between. That's terrifying, but possibly effective.)
The Giants' outfield situation is... difficult. Pagan really holds the Giants' offense together, and over the last couple of seasons when he's been missing, the Giants offense has a tendency to go missing, too. Blanco isn't doing a fantastic job as the leadoff guy, but it's been looking more promising in the last couple of days. Plus, he's a fantastic fielder (he saved Cain's perfect game!). I very highly doubt Bochy will take him out of the leadoff spot for now, primarily because there really isn't anybody else who would work there. Maybe Panik, but then you're probably pulling Crawford up to hit second, meaning it's just a black hole at the bottom of the lineup. Crawford is actually pretty adept at driving in runs (he had 60-something RBI from the eight slot), he's better suited for a spot farther down the order. Especially since he's not exactly tearing up the offense right now either.
Ishikawa has done a great job, though, and I think Bochy has actually done well in how he's being used. You can't start Perez, he's just not a good enough hitter. But you are also courting disaster if you leave Ishi out there too long: he has about 30 innings of outfield experience in his major league career, about 170 if you include the minors (and four errors in 46 chances between the majors and minors). I'm guessing whomever said earlier that they thought Ishikawa would be the heir apparent to Barry Bonds was joking. Morse was hurt for so long that it's difficult to argue that he'd be any better offensively than Perez and he might be a worse fielder than any other option. It's too bad, because Morse was critical to the Giants' early-season success. Then again, so was Brandon Hicks.
I have no problem with Panik's bat disappearing a bit in this series. I think it'll wake up again. I think Pence's is starting to wake up, and he's a streaky hitter so it can get hot pretty quickly. Posey will return to form, too. The Giants absolutely cannot keep relying on runs scored through wild pitches, errant throws and bloop hits, as incredible as that is to watch.
So, later today it's Vogelsong vs. Miller in a game that the Cardinals have to be considering a must-win. If they lose, they are facing Bumgarner at home, and other than his own ridiculous throw on a sacrifice bunt, he's been spectacular in the post-season. But, so too, has Vogey. It's always a bit dicey with Vogelsong over the last couple of years, but he's better at home and he's almost unhittable in the post-season. I will say this: Whenever he's faltered over the last few seasons, he often says afterward that he just needs to remain focused and execute the pitches he wants to make. That might just be excuses, but it's possible he has a tendency to get a little too comfortable. When he unravels, it happens very quickly. In the playoffs, maybe the mix of adrenaline and pressure locks him into focus? Who knows? Whatever it is, I hope it continues tonight.
GO GIANTS!
Panda is basically skinny this season. This is pretty much as good as it gets for him. He was thinner when he came into the year (he always gains weight during the season), but even now he's looking fairly good for him. He loses a lot of skills when he's too big, but he's probably 10-15 pounds under that point right now. He's a remarkable fielder (today's miscue notwithstanding), and extra weight really affects that. So far, he's been great. He's a lot quicker on the field than you'd imagine. However, his speed drops considerably as his weight increases. He's a slow panda at the moment, and that is frustrating. Oh, as for the strikezone? Pablo will anger and amaze fans. But, he came into the season promising to be more patient at the plate and it was an experiment that did not work. After a while, he went back to his free-swinging ways and it was far more successful. It drives you nuts until he hits a double on a ball four inches off the ground or at his eyeballs. It's just part of the Panda mystique.
Hunter Pence is the weirdest ballplayer I've ever watched. Basically he does nothing conventionally. His throws look painful, he runs strangely, his routes to the ball are awkward sometimes, he tends to bug his eyes out or have his tongue hanging out while he fields, he wears his pants bunched practically up to his thigh and his swing is weird. For the person who said here that he "didn't realize" Pence was odd: have you ever watched him play? It's painful, but deliciously effective. I adore Hunter Pence. He's awesome.
Bruce Bochy is a good manager. He's even a great manager. This series has been ridiculous, particularly in how he's handling the pitching staff. Leaving Hudson in there today was odd. His use of Strickland has not been nearly as judicious as I would personally have hoped. Hopefully he regains his senses by tomorrow's game.
(Side note: Strickland deserves a spot on the roster, but it's going to be feast or famine when he's used. He's struck out five and given up four home runs and one hit. So when he's in, it's likely to be a strikeout or a home run, nothing in between. That's terrifying, but possibly effective.)
The Giants' outfield situation is... difficult. Pagan really holds the Giants' offense together, and over the last couple of seasons when he's been missing, the Giants offense has a tendency to go missing, too. Blanco isn't doing a fantastic job as the leadoff guy, but it's been looking more promising in the last couple of days. Plus, he's a fantastic fielder (he saved Cain's perfect game!). I very highly doubt Bochy will take him out of the leadoff spot for now, primarily because there really isn't anybody else who would work there. Maybe Panik, but then you're probably pulling Crawford up to hit second, meaning it's just a black hole at the bottom of the lineup. Crawford is actually pretty adept at driving in runs (he had 60-something RBI from the eight slot), he's better suited for a spot farther down the order. Especially since he's not exactly tearing up the offense right now either.
Ishikawa has done a great job, though, and I think Bochy has actually done well in how he's being used. You can't start Perez, he's just not a good enough hitter. But you are also courting disaster if you leave Ishi out there too long: he has about 30 innings of outfield experience in his major league career, about 170 if you include the minors (and four errors in 46 chances between the majors and minors). I'm guessing whomever said earlier that they thought Ishikawa would be the heir apparent to Barry Bonds was joking. Morse was hurt for so long that it's difficult to argue that he'd be any better offensively than Perez and he might be a worse fielder than any other option. It's too bad, because Morse was critical to the Giants' early-season success. Then again, so was Brandon Hicks.
I have no problem with Panik's bat disappearing a bit in this series. I think it'll wake up again. I think Pence's is starting to wake up, and he's a streaky hitter so it can get hot pretty quickly. Posey will return to form, too. The Giants absolutely cannot keep relying on runs scored through wild pitches, errant throws and bloop hits, as incredible as that is to watch.
So, later today it's Vogelsong vs. Miller in a game that the Cardinals have to be considering a must-win. If they lose, they are facing Bumgarner at home, and other than his own ridiculous throw on a sacrifice bunt, he's been spectacular in the post-season. But, so too, has Vogey. It's always a bit dicey with Vogelsong over the last couple of years, but he's better at home and he's almost unhittable in the post-season. I will say this: Whenever he's faltered over the last few seasons, he often says afterward that he just needs to remain focused and execute the pitches he wants to make. That might just be excuses, but it's possible he has a tendency to get a little too comfortable. When he unravels, it happens very quickly. In the playoffs, maybe the mix of adrenaline and pressure locks him into focus? Who knows? Whatever it is, I hope it continues tonight.
GO GIANTS!
Kuip did make an earlier call that was very similar. But, really, there aren't that many ways to say "they all score," so I think it was just coincidence and being caught up in the moment. Miller was more restrained when he was with ESPN doing national games, but he's more passionate on the Giants radio broadcasts.Al Zarilla said:
As for your quibble: they generally refer to that area as "the deepest part of the ballpark." The number seven archway seems to be generally where "deepest part of the yard" seems to start. But, yes, technically, the deepest part of the yard, at 421 feet, is about where Bonds hit his 756th home run.
I believe it is 421 feet because of two reasons. First, the lot for the ballpark has weird dimensions because of the shoreline. In the very first concepts of the park, the field would have faced the city rather than the bay. However, that's the direction the fog and wind comes from (well, except for yesterday's game) and it would have been a Candlestickean nightmare. They were hoping to avoid that again, so they flipped it the other direction. The problem then became how to property allow space for seats, concessions and movement of people around the park while also having a playable surface. In the end, the sacrifice was made down the right field line, which is only 309 feet. To mitigate what everyone thought would be an extremely hitter-friendly corner, they built the 25-foot wall and opted for a very deep center field corner. I guess they thought it would add some balance so it wasn't a total bandbox. On a warm, windless day, it does play small in right, but hits still die out there in Death Valley. So, I get it. However, it's rarely warm and windless and for the most part the wind hurts hitters rather than helps them. In the end, it's the pitcher-friendly park we all know and love.
Gaelgirl, Thanks for that wonderful summary above. It will be very helpful to this band-wagoner going forward. I had noticed Pence's "oddness" as well as his cuteness, but you have made it more specific for me. He has replaced Pagan (in a very different way) for me as the Giant I most enjoy watching.
Fox has got to be hoping for a Giants win, or else the WS will be geographically mighty narrow.
Vogelsong looks like the kind of pitcher that the 2003-2013 Red Sox offenses would destroy. Ball one. Ball two. Whack!
Cain, Gordon and Aoki are shaking their heads at the OFers on these two teams. Could there be some weird shaft of light out there?
InsideTheParker said:
I went out before the game to see if I could see the stadium from my place, 9 miles away, and I could, but barely. Hazy, but it can't be that bad. Kind of humid, we had rain this morning. Scalloped clouds like in the shots they had a few minutes ago
