N'Keal Harry Requests a Trade
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His greatest play was scoring a TD but being incorrectly called out of bounds at like the 3 only to have the Pats not score on the ensuing plays. Feels appropriate.
I can't believe you remember enough N'Keal Harry plays to type two paragraphs in memoriam of his Patriots career. He was a total nonentity from start to finish. What a miss.
I submit this as Harry's greatest play....and it appears to exist in an alternate universe. Consider:
The QB is Stidham.
Somehow Stidham, contrary to his reputation, record, and very nature:
A. Makes the correct read (well, he locks in on Harry from the snap, so it wasn't like he scanned the field, but at least he saw one of his WR had a favorable matchup).
B. Puts just the right amount of touch on the ball, so it was either a TD or an incomplete--no danger of an INT.
Somehow Harry does a series of very un-Harrylike things:
A. Makes a nice little move at the snap to prevent the CB from jamming him.
B. Runs his route correctly (to the extent it was a route--he just had to sprint toward the corner and not trip, but the man did his job)
C. Legit beats his man "at the point of attack." Harry appears to realize he has a size advantage, and he gives #27 (Fenton?) a shove and gets separation.
D. Completes a diving catch that requires grace, focus and and body control.
Somewhere , on Earth-2, Stidham-to-Harry is Montana-to-Rice.
The QB is Stidham.
Somehow Stidham, contrary to his reputation, record, and very nature:
A. Makes the correct read (well, he locks in on Harry from the snap, so it wasn't like he scanned the field, but at least he saw one of his WR had a favorable matchup).
B. Puts just the right amount of touch on the ball, so it was either a TD or an incomplete--no danger of an INT.
Somehow Harry does a series of very un-Harrylike things:
A. Makes a nice little move at the snap to prevent the CB from jamming him.
B. Runs his route correctly (to the extent it was a route--he just had to sprint toward the corner and not trip, but the man did his job)
C. Legit beats his man "at the point of attack." Harry appears to realize he has a size advantage, and he gives #27 (Fenton?) a shove and gets separation.
D. Completes a diving catch that requires grace, focus and and body control.
Somewhere , on Earth-2, Stidham-to-Harry is Montana-to-Rice.
This seems fitting:
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Embedded NFL videos don't work. You need to click through to the video to see the majestic beauty of a couple of busts in action.
View: https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/status/1413191333431361536
Jeremy Fowler, ESPN: Talked to league exec who estimates N'Keal Harry will be worth a conditional 6th Rd pick. Teams expected to have interest. Harry will be looking for offense to utilize as contested catch guy, size and strength in red zone and deep. Speed-and-precision offense probably not for him
Jeremy Fowler, ESPN: Talked to league exec who estimates N'Keal Harry will be worth a conditional 6th Rd pick. Teams expected to have interest. Harry will be looking for offense to utilize as contested catch guy, size and strength in red zone and deep. Speed-and-precision offense probably not for him
I like that he will be ‘looking for’ a particular offense. Dude‘s agent is leaking narratives like this guy is Julio Jones with 1/4 of the league in on him and actual leverage over his current team.
How many receivers that failed to click with Tom Brady have gone on to have long and productive careers after leaving the Pats? Hint: I'm taking the under...
And to be fair.....he aint wrong. Many (all?) of us could have told you he would be a bad fit in this offense (at least the TB precision offense).
Now if he would have been "Metcalf-like or -Lite" in another offense is an unknowable. But as a Deep threat and big bodied redzone target he certainly would have been being used closer to his strengths then he has here.
I thought he might be used like Cord Patterson, but alas they never did. (and had they done so, I am not sure the contribution would have been worth the 1st rounder it cost).
Now if he would have been "Metcalf-like or -Lite" in another offense is an unknowable. But as a Deep threat and big bodied redzone target he certainly would have been being used closer to his strengths then he has here.
I thought he might be used like Cord Patterson, but alas they never did. (and had they done so, I am not sure the contribution would have been worth the 1st rounder it cost).
They did a lot of Patterson-type stuff with him early in the year (pseudo-TE stuff, jet sweeps, schemed touches) but he was terrible and they went away from it.
I think you were 180-degrees off in your expectations of Harry. (To be clear, you were far from alone.)
Patterson was a great athlete who wasn’t very good at WR fundamentals, so the staff designed plays in an effort to get the ball in his hands. By contrast, Harry seems to be a technically sound player; he just doesn’t have the athletic ability to get separation from NFL defensive backs. Which is why I’m skeptical Harry has any trade value; his problems simply aren’t fixable.
See, I disagree. If there was a fit, it was precisely because Harry was a skilled player in college who might, in theory, adapt quickly to the Pats’ “precision offense.” That hasn’t worked out.
A player with below-average (by NFL standards) speed and agility isn’t going to be a viable deep threat. In the right matchups, he might be useful in the red zone, but he’s just going to be ok — the big WRs who are elite red zone threats possess athleticism that Harry lacks. So maybe you could put him in a position where he’s useful, but you’ll likely create more problems than you solve by tailoring your offense to the talents of your 4th/5th WR.
I just don’t see him as a useful player. If another team thinks otherwise, BB should drive Harry to the airport if he nets us a 7th rounder.
I was wrong about Harry, I think. I thought he could be a good red zone target. I thought he'd win a lot of 50/50 balls. I thought he'd be a monster blocker. I thought he'd be a terrific RAC guy. I thought he'd not need to be open much and would make all kinds of contested catches.
I really am disappointed. I thought he'd be really good. The route running was not his thing but I figured with coaching from the Patriots of all teams, he'd get that and then all the other physical tools (size, strength, etc.) would just let him blossom.
I really am disappointed. I thought he'd be really good. The route running was not his thing but I figured with coaching from the Patriots of all teams, he'd get that and then all the other physical tools (size, strength, etc.) would just let him blossom.
Yeah Cordelle is quite a bit faster (4.42 to 4.53 combine) and obviously more elusive
I would not describe Harry as technically sound. I do think that while he's not a speedster, he's athletic enough to win; his problems, like Patterson, are with fundamentals: footwork at the line, precise route-running, sharp breaks, using his body to shield defenders, etc. Basically he's got Patterson's flaws but he also runs a 40 that's like 0.10-0.12 slower.
I maintain that it was a giant red flag when they put Harry on IR to start his rookie year. He had already returned to practice at the time, so he probably wasn't far away from being able to play. It suggested to me that they realized really early that that they got sold a bill of goods on Harry and he wasn't the player they thought they were getting (shades of Duke Dawson the year prior).
Thanks. I guess I assumed his success in college indicated his fundamentals were sound, since he didn’t have the eye-popping athleticism.
His athleticism keeps getting underrated here. His combines stats are very similar to those of Josh Gordon or Dez Bryant--for a big receiver he is pretty fast and he can jump pretty well. He's not Julio Jones or Calvin Johnson or a similar freak, but against sh*tty Pac-12 defensive backs that's enough athleticism to do a lot of damage.
IIRC, I argued pretty hard a while back that his success in college was much more related to who he played against than anything else. He faced decent opposition in the PAC12 (or whatever it was called at the time), but his measurables indicated he was a guy who would not have succeeded in the SEC or Big Ten. For every Davante Adams who came out of Fresno, there are 10 Amari Coopers and Justin Jefferson's and OBJ's and DK Metcalfs and AJ Browns and Julio Jones' coming out of the SEC.
If you're going to take a WR in the first round out of Arizona State, he better come out of the combine looking more like DK Metcalf than N'Keal Harry.
A guy with Metcalf’s measurables and Harry’s college stats would be a top-5 pick.
The SEC is in a class by itself, but the other four P5 conferences are in the same neighborhood in terms of the number of players they place in the pros. (Well, maybe not the Big 12, but the Pac-12 only modestly trails the B1G and ACC, both of which have more schools.) I don’t know if the WR position is an exception, but I don’t think Harry playing in the Pac-12 should’ve been a red flag or anything.
https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2019-09-03/colleges-most-represented-2019-nfl-rosters
So, the latter-day Hart Lee Dykes?
To be fair, Dykes career was cut short by injury. But it had a definite N'Keal Harry trajectory.
Maybe the Pats should just give up drafting WRs entirely, at least in the first round.
To be fair, Dykes career was cut short by injury. But it had a definite N'Keal Harry trajectory.
Maybe the Pats should just give up drafting WRs entirely, at least in the first round.
Harry WISHES he had the Patriots career of Hart Lee Dykes, meaning an 800 yard, 5 TD season as a 23 year old and another 550 yard, 34 catch season in 10 games. Dykes had four 100+ yard games in the 2nd half of the '89 season -- Harry's single game high thus far is 72 yards I believe.
Never thought I'd be singing the praises of Hart Lee Dykes but, well, here we are.
IMO, him playing in the PAC12 wasn't the red flag. It was him playing in the PAC12 and then running a 4.53 at the combine, as a guy who can't beat press coverage.
And again, we're not talking about a 3rd or 4th round pick. He was taken in the 1st round, after running the 21st fastest time in the combine by a WR. The only receiver taken ahead of him was Marquise Brown from Oklahome, and he didn't run at the combine, but Stevie Wonder could tell he was world's faster and quicker than N'Keal Harry. Look at the guys who have succeeded that were taken after him (and were better at the combine), Metcalf (SEC), Brown (SEC), Deebo Samuel (SEC), Darius Slayton (SEC), Terry McLaurin (Big Ten, OSU), MeCole Hardman (SEC)....
There were plenty of busts that went shortly after him too, and they all have a lot in common, none of them played in the SEC, and none (?) played in the Big Ten (or for Clemson).
But when it comes to top of the charts and NFL success at the WR position, the SEC is the creme of the crop, the Big Ten kicks in a few guys and then Clemson. Like I said, you have your outliers like Adams and Corey Davis, but there are a lot more Zay Jones' and John Ross' getting drafted high that bust out from smaller tier conferences....Even a "bad" high end pick, like Sammy Watkins, usually puts together a pretty good career.
And I always talk about the fact that it's not just about the competition faced on game day, the WR's at Bama or OSU or Clemson are playing day in and day out against NFL quality defensive backs in practice. That shit matters. A lot. Coaching matters too..
The 2014 draft, arguably one of the best ever for WR's had the following guys taken in the 1st 3 rounds:
Adams: 2nd round, 53rd pick, Fresno
Dri Archer: 3rd, 97th, Kent State
Kelvin Benjamin: 1st, 28th, Florida State
John Brown: 3rd, 91st, Pittsburgh State
Cooks: 1st, 20th, Oregon State
Mike Evans: 1st, 7th, A&M
Josh Huff: 3rd, 86th, Oregon
OBJ: 1st, 12th, LSU
Landry: 2nd, 61st, LSU
Latimer: 2nd, 56th, Indiana
Marquise Lee, 2nd, 39th, USC
Jordan Matthews: 2nd, 41st, Vanderbilt
Moncrief: 3rd, 90th, Mississippi
Paul Richardson: 2nd, 45th, Colorado
Allen Robinson: 2nd, 61st pick, Penn State
Sammy Watkins: 1st, 4th, Clemson
It's not hard to see that if you're going high for a WR, you are absolutely without a doubt playing with fire, unless you pull a kid from the SEC, or one of the other top tier schools from the Big 10, or Clemson. You might get lucky, but more than likely, you're getting Paul Richardson or Marquise Lee. I also find it interesting how many of these "busts" end up finding their way to New England for a cup of coffee, Stallworth, Lee, Matthews, Moncrief, etc. I'm looking forward to Breshad Perriman getting his moment in Foxboro in the near future.
Harry has been a big bust so far and i'm not optimistic that that changes. That said WRs bust out of every school and conference and it's not like you're safe if you stick the SEC/Big-Ten/Clemson. Braxton Miller, Laquon Treadwell, you name it. And yes, Sammy Watkins hasn't been great given how high he was picked.
Top 10 WRs in receiving yards last season:
Stefon Diggs (Maryland), DeAndre Hopkins (Clemson), Justin Jefferson (LSU), Davante Adams (Fresno St.), Calvin Ridley (Alabama), DK Metcalf (Ole Miss), Tyreek Hill (West Alabama, and before that Oklahoma St.), Allen Robinson (Penn St.), DJ Moore (Maryland), and Brandin Cooks (Oregon State).
That’s three guys each from the SEC and B1G, one each from the ACC and Pac-12, and one from the G5, plus the unique case of Tyreek Hill. With two of the three B1G representatives coming from Maryland, I’m calling that a fluke. So it’s the SEC unsurprisingly leading the way, but I don’t see any pattern beyond that.
Only Diggs and Hill weren’t drafted in the first two rounds (and Hill obviously didn’t slide because of doubts about his talent), but I don’t believe there’s a top 15 pick in the bunch.
Terry Glenn, Irving Fryar and Stanley Morgan are the exceptions to this rule. Darryl Stingley gets an honorable mention.
Wait, didn’t he get hurt during training camp, but then played in the Lions preseason game, then got hurt again and got placed on IR? He had 3 catches in like 5 minutes against the Lions, I remember being very excited at how good he looked.
Harry ran a 4.53 40.
Jerry Rice: 4.71
Larry Fitzgerald: 4.63
Cris Carter: 4.63
Anquan Boldin: 4.71
Chad Johnson: 4.57
Wes Welker: 4.65
Julian Edelman: 4.52
Keenan Allen: 4.71
Mike Evans: 4.53
Davante Adams: 4.56
Dez Bryant: 4.52
Michael Irvin: 4.52
Michael Thomas: 4.57
I mean...the list goes on and on of wildly successful NFL receivers who ran 40 times the same or slower (in some cases, significantly slower) than N'Keal Harry.
Jerry Rice: 4.71
Larry Fitzgerald: 4.63
Cris Carter: 4.63
Anquan Boldin: 4.71
Chad Johnson: 4.57
Wes Welker: 4.65
Julian Edelman: 4.52
Keenan Allen: 4.71
Mike Evans: 4.53
Davante Adams: 4.56
Dez Bryant: 4.52
Michael Irvin: 4.52
Michael Thomas: 4.57
I mean...the list goes on and on of wildly successful NFL receivers who ran 40 times the same or slower (in some cases, significantly slower) than N'Keal Harry.
That did happen - he was nicked up and then left the Lions game with a leg injury (I don't think it was ever confirmed whether that was a new injury or re-aggravating the same one). But that was preseason game one, the injury was reported as "very minor," and he was back at practice prior to the fourth preseason game (albeit "moving gingerly"). They put him on IR anyway.
Keep in mind that both Aaron Dobson and Malcolm Mitchell suffered injuries that caused them to miss part of preseason / early regular season and the team thought enough of them to keep them off IR. They also made Harry a healthy scratch for the first game he was eligible to play in. I think they realized right away that he stinks.
It's usually hard to see patterns with one year of data and 10 players. Using your arbitrary cutoff of top 10 in receiving yards:
Here's 2019, from 1st to 11th (skipping Travis Kelce who is a TE):
Ohio State: Michael Thomas
Alabama: Julio Jones
Penn State: Chris Godwin
Louisville: Davante Parker
Cal: Keenan Allen
Northern Illinois: Kenny Golladay
Alabama: Amari Cooper
Maryland: DJ Moore
LSU: Jarvis Landry
Clemson: DeAndre Hopkins
Not sure how you can call DJ Moore a "fluke" when he's been 9th in receiving yards in the NFL in back to back years. Kenny Golladay? I'll call that one a fluke for now. 7 of the 10 on the list are represented by the SEC, Big10 and Clemson. If you go back further (but you can't go back too far, because conferences change), you'll see the guys that routinely show up are usually from there as well. The outliers change often.
But hey, if folks want to keep drafting 4.53 guys from the PAC12 who can't beat press coverage, you've got a spot on BB's WR scout team. I'll go with the guys dropping 4.4's in the SEC against the best competition in the country, even if their college stats aren't as good as Harry's were.
This isn't just about 40 times, it's not just about conference, it's not just about not being able to beat press coverage. It's about all of those things and using a 1st round pick on the guy anyway. If the Pats had taken Harry in the 3rd round (which I think is where most pundits thought he'd go), our expectations would have been vastly different. '
I'm sure Philly wishes they took Justin Jefferson instead of Jalen Reagor immediately before him. I'm sure Indy wishes Tee Higgins dropped to them instead of Cincy grabbing him immediately before they took Michael Pittman.
The percentage of busts coming out of the top 2-3 rounds from non-SEC, non Big10, non-Clemson schools is higher than it is for other conferences, when it comes to wide receivers (it may be true for other positions too, but I haven't done as much research on them).
Jerry Rice is one of my 3 favorite players of all time. He came out of college in 1985. You don't think the game has gotten a little faster since then?
If he ran a 4.71 (I think whoever had the stop watch that day had Angel Fernandez' eyes), then imagine how slow the defenders were running. The other guys on that list are absolute technicians and a who's who of the best route runners in the past 20 years. N'Keal Harry shouldn't be in the same stadium handing them Gatorade:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5rKDfmpNFg
I was simply responding to the comment about Harry’s slow 40 time. Clearly you don’t have to be fast to be really good. You just have to be GOOD.
I haven't studied WRs by conference in detail to know whether @Deathofthebambino 's theory holds water, but I can't help but notice that the 49ers took a 4.5 Arizona State WR in the first round the very next year and got basically twice the production out of Aiyuk in 12 games that Harry has in two seasons.
I do think it's fair to note that certain receivers face way less press coverage than others, and some of that might be a conference thing, but some is usage, too. In Harry's draft, you had Terry McLaurin and Parris Campbell, both out of Ohio State. Both had great measurables / 40s, but McLaurin (who had mediocre college production) was running NFL-type routes and Campbell was running all slot drags vs zone and schemed touches. Harry, like Campbell, had a lot of production on gimmicky stuff. Had he put up the same numbers playing outside consistently, I would have been a lot more bullish on him even given his pedestrian 40 and meh PAC-12 CBs ... but of course, he wouldn't have put up the same numbers playing outside consistently.
I do think it's fair to note that certain receivers face way less press coverage than others, and some of that might be a conference thing, but some is usage, too. In Harry's draft, you had Terry McLaurin and Parris Campbell, both out of Ohio State. Both had great measurables / 40s, but McLaurin (who had mediocre college production) was running NFL-type routes and Campbell was running all slot drags vs zone and schemed touches. Harry, like Campbell, had a lot of production on gimmicky stuff. Had he put up the same numbers playing outside consistently, I would have been a lot more bullish on him even given his pedestrian 40 and meh PAC-12 CBs ... but of course, he wouldn't have put up the same numbers playing outside consistently.
Unfair to Heart Lee Dykes He had 49 catches and 5 TDs his rookie year with Grogan, Eason, Wilson and Flutie throwing to him. Harry's had 45/4 over two seasons, one of which had To, Brady throwing the ball.
Because if someone (Arizona) throws a 6th round pick at them, BB will take it. There's no need to cut him yet.
All’s I know is like three years ago I hesitantly referred to myself as possibly “an Eli apologist”, and boom, the dopes hung a scarlet letter on my avatar.
It's also slightly advantageous to trade him versus an outright cut, as in the latter case the team is still on the hook for $670K of his salary next season. And injuries to other players can change the roster dynamics of the Patriots and other teams quite quickly.
If he was a 7th round pick with no cap implications, he would have been cut. But he's a former first rounder, and there is zero cost to keeping him around to at least to the first big preseason roster cuts.
For the record, I meant why didn't they just cut him a while ago, like last season or earlier in the offseason... but given the offseason roster limits and abundance of cap space, I agree they have had no real reason to move on from him until now.
I remember reading this and feeling really good:
https://arizonasports.com/story/1922285/michael-lombardi-idiot-to-draft-metcalf-over-nkeal-harry/
“To me (N’Keal Harry is) a legitimate receiver. That guy can play anywhere on the field … and when the ball’s in his hands, he’s a beast,” Lombardi said. “He’s a freakin’ beast.”
Simply put, Lombardi thinks it’s “comedy” to put Metcalf over Harry on a draft board.
“You take Metcalf before him, you’re an idiot. You’re an idiot,” Lombardi said.
https://arizonasports.com/story/1922285/michael-lombardi-idiot-to-draft-metcalf-over-nkeal-harry/
“To me (N’Keal Harry is) a legitimate receiver. That guy can play anywhere on the field … and when the ball’s in his hands, he’s a beast,” Lombardi said. “He’s a freakin’ beast.”
Simply put, Lombardi thinks it’s “comedy” to put Metcalf over Harry on a draft board.
“You take Metcalf before him, you’re an idiot. You’re an idiot,” Lombardi said.
I kind of doubt this. The rosters are at 90 or whatever. He hasn't been that good and I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't make the roster but he's a big powerful receiver who blocks well, who caught 30 balls last year, and who is in all likelihood a heck of a lot better than the best availble player on the street.
The scouting reports at the time said that Metcalf was a one truck pony - just a guy who can run go routes. No route-running ability.
Eight WRs were taken ahead of him (he was the 64th overall player taken that year), including Harry and Isabella.
Well it turns out that he’s pretty amazing.