NFL: Week 5 game thread

lars10

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Chiefs schedule is pretty rough going forward… have to play SD, GB, Denver and Dallas.. they could finish sub .500 if they keep playing this way
 

CaptainLaddie

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where the darn libs live
I shouldn't probably hate the Chiefs, but I had to kick a diehard asshole MAGA Chiefs fan out of the fantasy league I've run with him in it for over a decade last year.

Dude was an absolute poison and ruined our league, so I booted him out despite my many attempts to calm him down and replaced him mid-season with a different player. Anyway, whenever the Chiefs lose, I'm happy. Fuck that guy, and fuck the Chiefs. I love Mahomes and Kelce -- they're fantastically fun players. But I hope they never win another game ever again.
 

rodderick

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Mahomes is a whiner and the way his wife and brother act you can't ever convince me he isn't a cocky asshole off the field, so love to see him struggle. Gotta learn how to beat two deep without the schoolyard plays, bud. Aren't you the next GOAT? Last Super Bowl wasn't so important for Brady to keep you from winning 7? Gotta do better than this.
 

johnmd20

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I shouldn't probably hate the Chiefs, but I had to kick a diehard asshole MAGA Chiefs fan out of the fantasy league I've run with him in it for over a decade last year.

Dude was an absolute poison and ruined our league, so I booted him out despite my many attempts to calm him down and replaced him mid-season with a different player. Anyway, whenever the Chiefs lose, I'm happy. Fuck that guy, and fuck the Chiefs. I love Mahomes and Kelce -- they're fantastically fun players. But I hope they never win another game ever again.
How is this appropriate for the Lombardi forum?

This is a straight V&N post dressed up as a comment about football.
 

tims4wins

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I’ve said it before, but the Chiefs are at the exact same point Seattle was after 2014: back to back SB appearances, lost the second trying to go back to back, QB got expensive.

Seattle hasn’t been back to the NFCCG since.

I’m not by any means ready to bury the Chiefs.. but it would surprise me zero to see them follow a similar path.
 

jsinger121

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I’ve said it before, but the Chiefs are at the exact same point Seattle was after 2014: back to back SB appearances, lost the second trying to go back to back, QB got expensive.

Seattle hasn’t been back to the NFCCG since.

I’m not by any means ready to bury the Chiefs.. but it would surprise me zero to see them follow a similar path.
Great analogy. Let’s not forget Travis Kelce is already 32 as well and is heading towards the back nine but your totally right. That Mahomes contract is going to be a killer for them unless the cap goes significantly up.
 

tims4wins

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Great analogy. Let’s not forget Travis Kelce is already 32 as well and is heading towards the back nine but your totally right. That Mahomes contract is going to be a killer for them unless the cap goes significantly up.
Yep. And I feel like the Chiefs rely on the all world skill of guys like Kelce and Hill way more than the Pats ever relied on pure physical skill type of guys.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Their defense obviously sucks, the two games they've won they've given up 29 and 30 points, and the 29 against the Browns is the only time they've held the opposition under 30. That's absolute trash and no offense can execute consistently enough to overcome that.

Mahomes has also thrown 6 picks already, as many as he threw all of last year. They need to figure something out on defense and they need to stop turning the ball over on offense.

Meanwhile I wish I didn't hate Buffalo's fanbase with a white hot passion because they are a fun team to root for, and right now look like the best team in the AFC to me.
 

rodderick

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I don't think Seattle is a great analogy because the Seahawks had success in 2012-214 on the back of a dominant defense that got old/injured/paid elsewhere. Wilson was really good but not the driving force behind their winning.

The Chiefs on the other hand still have all the guys that made them contenders. They weren't successful in 2018-2020 because of their defense. As long as Hill/Kelce/Mahomes are there and playing at a reasonably high level they're going to be in the mix at the end of the season. Now I do think Mahomes turnover luck ending and his aversion to throwing into tight windows combined with teams just playing two deep on them all game is going to keep hindering their season unless they adjust. Look for them to score 48 on the Football Team next week, though.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I don't think Seattle is a great analogy because the Seahawks had success in 2012-214 on the back of a dominant defense that got old/injured/paid elsewhere. Wilson was really good but not the driving force behind their winning.

The Chiefs on the other hand still have all the guys that made them contenders. They weren't successful in 2018-2020 because of their defense. As long as Hill/Kelce/Mahomes are there and playing at a reasonably high level they're going to be in the mix at the end of the season. Now I do think Mahomes turnover luck ending and his aversion to throwing into tight windows combined with teams just playing two deep on them all game is going to keep hindering their season unless they adjust. Look for them to score 48 on the Football Team next week, though.
I think the main issue with the Chiefs is that they haven't gotten much out of the draft in the last few years, partly due to trading so many high picks and partly because they haven't drafted all that well. This has left their depth a lot of weaker than the last couple years. The WR/TE options after Hill and Kelce might be one of the worst 3rd-6th weapons groups in the league. The defensive backfield is a total mess.

What should worry any Chiefs fan is that this talent issue is showing up before they really begin to pay the price for their cap maneuvering and big numbers to star players, most of which kicks in next year. Their top five cap hits this year are about 42.7% of the cap, which is very manageable. Their top five cap hits next year are scheduled to be about 62% of this year's cap. The cap will go up a little and they will no doubt find ways to kick some of that can down the road. But everything gets significantly harder from here from a cap management perspective.
 

Cornboy14

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Mahomes has fewer completions 15+ yards from the Line of Scrimmage than Mac Jones does. I’m sure that will change and they’ll figure it out, but that’s part of the problem. He’s got 9 all year and Mac is at 10 with similar number of drop backs.
 

johnmd20

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I don't think Seattle is a great analogy because the Seahawks had success in 2012-214 on the back of a dominant defense that got old/injured/paid elsewhere. Wilson was really good but not the driving force behind their winning.

The Chiefs on the other hand still have all the guys that made them contenders. They weren't successful in 2018-2020 because of their defense. As long as Hill/Kelce/Mahomes are there and playing at a reasonably high level they're going to be in the mix at the end of the season. Now I do think Mahomes turnover luck ending and his aversion to throwing into tight windows combined with teams just playing two deep on them all game is going to keep hindering their season unless they adjust. Look for them to score 48 on the Football Team next week, though.
Wilson on a rookie contract enabled Seattle to crush it elsewhere. He was exception for a QB on a rookie contract. Once that time passed, he was no longer exceptional relative to his cost. That is the comp for KC.

Mahomes is amazing. Mahomes on a rookie deal is a cheat code. Once that code expires, the work begins.
 

rodderick

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Mahomes has fewer completions 15+ yards from the Line of Scrimmage than Mac Jones does. I’m sure that will change and they’ll figure it out, but that’s part of the problem. He’s got 9 all year and Mac is at 10 with similar number of drop backs.
Teams are basically asking him to be a quarterback. Limit the freebies and the broken plays, go out there read the defense, find the open man and get him the ball. And he's struggling. The stats are good, but there are 5 shovel pass TDs from the 1 in there. It's why his PFF grade is so much lower than what the statistical analysis suggests. A lot of the production comes from the talent making plays.

If you give those guys one on one matchups and Mahomes can play sandlot ball, there isn't a more dangerous QB in the history of football. It's why teams are asking him to be Drew Brees now, and he's not doing great. I mean, dude threw two games away this season on bad 4th quarter picks that Rodgers/Brady would be lambasted for and the media reaction was just "eh, it happens". All the ball washing and his ridiculous comment about how he's "seeing coverages no other QB does" makes me think he's bought into the hype and isn't doing what it takes to evolve as a player and adjust to how defenses are playing against him.

All that being said, with all these struggles, they're still a top 3 offense. He's that talented.
 

Ralphwiggum

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They are averaging over 30 points a game even with the turnovers. Maybe the way they are getting those points are slightly different than in year's past, but I have a hard time blaming their record on the offense. Meanwhile they are giving up 32 points a game. Their defense is complete trash.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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They are averaging over 30 points a game even with the turnovers. Maybe the way they are getting those points are slightly different than in year's past, but I have a hard time blaming their record on the offense. Meanwhile they are giving up 32 points a game. Their defense is complete trash.
Yeah, I agree. It is interesting to look at how teams might be playing Mahomes but in terms of their actual problems, its all about the defense.

This tweet sums it up pretty well.

View: https://twitter.com/PaulHembo/status/1447538704009121797
 

tims4wins

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I don't think Seattle is a great analogy because the Seahawks had success in 2012-214 on the back of a dominant defense that got old/injured/paid elsewhere. Wilson was really good but not the driving force behind their winning.

The Chiefs on the other hand still have all the guys that made them contenders. They weren't successful in 2018-2020 because of their defense. As long as Hill/Kelce/Mahomes are there and playing at a reasonably high level they're going to be in the mix at the end of the season. Now I do think Mahomes turnover luck ending and his aversion to throwing into tight windows combined with teams just playing two deep on them all game is going to keep hindering their season unless they adjust. Look for them to score 48 on the Football Team next week, though.
That's fair, but the relevant thing to me is that while you are correct that the D hasn't been the reason they have been good, they have been able to allocate all sorts of dollars to players other than the QB position. That is beginning to have to change.

Maybe the better comp is the 2002 Rams, ha.
 

rodderick

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That's fair, but the relevant thing to me is that while you are correct that the D hasn't been the reason they have been good, they have been able to allocate all sorts of dollars to players other than the QB position. That is beginning to have to change.

Maybe the better comp is the 2002 Rams, ha.
Sure, but not this season. This season Mahomes' hit is 4.8% of the cap and the Chiefs have the second highest percentage of cap space dedicated to defensive players. They just built a poor roster. I think they tried to do the Colts thing of building a defense to play with a lead but they can't pass rush.
 

Kliq

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KC defense is awful but some of that is because they have an NFL high 11 turnovers so far to start the season.

Taking away the big play on KC requires a lot of discipline, but when it works it does really expose KC's weaknesses at the skill position. Hill does some things better than any other WR in football, but he isn't a big, physical WR that can make a lot of contested catches in short yardage situations, the way guys like Hopkins/Adams can, and he isn't a lethal player in the slot either. He at excels at broken plays and getting behind defenses to catch the bomb, or streaking across the field laterally. If teams are disciplined enough to stop that from happening, they can limit his effectiveness and you can look at how his stats correlate in games KC wins and games KC loses to see how critical getting him free is for that offense. If teams commit to stopping Hill, they can let Kelce get his numbers and dare the other skill position players to make a play, and those guys just aren't very good.
 

Jungleland

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I was begrudgingly pulling for the Chiefs last night because I refuse to give up on the season until the math says it's over for the Pats, but man is Buffalo a fun team. Between never winning shit and being a perennial punching bag during the Brady era I have 0 divisional ill will toward them, also had a grand old time a few years ago going to a game there. Won't mind seeing them in the Super Bowl at all if they get there.

The Chiefs are vaguely 2011 Patriots-esque in the talent discrepancy between their two sides of the ball. I'm not betting against Mahomes figuring out the turnover issue, but their margin for error in games against good teams is going to be razor thin all year. LAC might actually take the division.
 

reggiecleveland

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Mahomes is a whiner and the way his wife and brother act you can't ever convince me he isn't a cocky asshole off the field, so love to see him struggle. Gotta learn how to beat two deep without the schoolyard plays, bud. Aren't you the next GOAT? Last Super Bowl wasn't so important for Brady to keep you from winning 7? Gotta do better than this.
I would not put too much stock in what the family is saying. TB12's dad and wife have not covered themselves in glory. I am not equating the behaviors, but family will say some crazy things. Perhaps Tom has done a better job of muzzling them. Often people are opposites of their families.

All of these 'next' (Tiger, Jordan, Brady, etc) usually don't measure up just showing how great the originals were. Last year it seemed Mahomes was on his way to multiple SB wins. Now, maybe he never gets back. It is much harder than it seems.
 

johnmd20

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Mahomes is a whiner and the way his wife and brother act you can't ever convince me he isn't a cocky asshole off the field, so love to see him struggle. Gotta learn how to beat two deep without the schoolyard plays, bud. Aren't you the next GOAT? Last Super Bowl wasn't so important for Brady to keep you from winning 7? Gotta do better than this.
Mahomes does lead the league in TDs. It's not like he's playing terribly.
 

Euclis20

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I was begrudgingly pulling for the Chiefs last night because I refuse to give up on the season until the math says it's over for the Pats, but man is Buffalo a fun team. Between never winning shit and being a perennial punching bag during the Brady era I have 0 divisional ill will toward them, also had a grand old time a few years ago going to a game there. Won't mind seeing them in the Super Bowl at all if they get there.

The Chiefs are vaguely 2011 Patriots-esque in the talent discrepancy between their two sides of the ball. I'm not betting against Mahomes figuring out the turnover issue, but their margin for error in games against good teams is going to be razor thin all year. LAC might actually take the division.
Going into week 5 the Chiefs were 1st in offensive DVOA and 32nd in defensive DVOA. Any focus on issues that Mahomes is having are a bit ridiculous compared to what's happening on the other side of the ball (not that you are saying that, but others seem to be).

Even the 2011 Pats weren't that extreme (3rd in offensive DVOA and 30th in defensive DVOA). Interesting to see what the rankings look like tomorrow.
 

luckiestman

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Wentz with a nice 76 yard bomb to start things off on MNF

also 76 YAC but who’s counting
 

rodderick

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I would not put too much stock in what the family is saying. TB12's dad and wife have not covered themselves in glory. I am not equating the behaviors, but family will say some crazy things. Perhaps Tom has done a better job of muzzling them. Often people are opposites of their families.

All of these 'next' (Tiger, Jordan, Brady, etc) usually don't measure up just showing how great the originals were. Last year it seemed Mahomes was on his way to multiple SB wins. Now, maybe he never gets back. It is much harder than it seems.
Gisele has done nothing except make a single comment after being heckled in the immediate aftermath of a loss. And I take everything Brady Sr. says as representative of stuff Tom has articulated to him. I just can't see how a humble athlete would lead to a wife and brother so outwardly insufferable. It's not like we're getting word that they are like this privately, these two revel in shoving it in everyone's faces. Have never seen Patrick go the "if he keeps this up, I'm putting him into a home" route regarding their antics.
 

Cellar-Door

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BAL screwed up that end of half pretty bad, 1st and 10 at the 11, under 2 minutes, and they not only get held to 3 they then surrender a long drive to give the 3 right back.
 

CaptainLaddie

dj paul pfieffer
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where the darn libs live
How is this appropriate for the Lombardi forum?

This is a straight V&N post dressed up as a comment about football.
It's actually not at all a V&N post, buddy. The MAGA part is kind of actually irrelevant -- though it's certainly part of the guys personality at this point. It's that he was an asshole, poisoning the rest of the league with shitty comments, insulting other players, and generally being a bad leaguemate. It's kind of sad, honestly, because he and I were close for a long time -- he had been in the league for a decade, as I said. But he decided to insult people so much I had to kick him out, had nothing to do with his politics (in fact, we have multiple Republicans in the league still!). The relevancy is that he's a Chiefs fan who, boy, has made me absolutely hate that team with a passion.

What a weird post, like you have an agenda or something.
 

luckiestman

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Review robs of us a great all time fumble return for a td. I guess it was a forward lateral but man seeing that great play wiped out sucks.