NFL to Penalize Racial Slurs?

JayMags71 · Feb 22, 2014

This seems like a great solution in search of a problem. I'm not great at refining google searches, but I can't seem to find an instance where this was an in-game problem.

mascho · Feb 22, 2014

JayMags71 said:
This seems like a great solution in search of a problem. I'm not great at refining google searches, but I can't seem to find an instance where this was an in-game problem.

The only instance I can recall off the top of my head is this past season, when Trent Williams claimed a ref used the slur against him.

This seems to be a case of the NFL going too far in trying to make a larger, societal statement.

RhaegarTharen · Feb 22, 2014

Meh - I see this as something that will never get called. But the NFL can point to the rulebook and proclaim that they don't tolerate it blah blah blah.

soxfan121 · Feb 22, 2014

mascho said:
The only instance I can recall off the top of my head is this past season, when Trent Williams claimed a ref used the slur against him.

This seems to be a case of the NFL going too far in trying to make a larger, societal statement.

Well, in this iteration of football. As mascho knows, this is a serious problem in soccer. MLS has a similar policy, FWIW.

Devizier · Feb 22, 2014

Sounds like a PR move in light of the Incognito affair, and nothing else.

Besides, isn't this already covered under "unsportsmanlike conduct"?

Harry Hooper · Feb 22, 2014

If the N-word is used between teammates, will it be called for a penalty?

Reverend · Feb 22, 2014

Did anyone else see that movie where Robert Redford was an officer sent to a military prison who earns the respect of all the inmates and teaches them self-respect and all that good bs and they want to salute him but aren't allowed to, so they make a salute motion and then act like they were just running their fingers through their hair?

I imagine the players turning a rule like this into some kind of game South Park style where they find new terms to make a mockery of the rule, which might be kind of fun and not necessarily a bad thing as a kind of satire on the idea of "bad words" versus bad thoughts.

mabrowndog · Feb 22, 2014

Q-Tip does not support this pending legislation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekNQfqF9mQU

mascho · Feb 22, 2014

Reverend said:
Did anyone else see that movie where Robert Redford was an officer sent to a military prison who earns the respect of all the inmates and teaches them self-respect and all that good bs and they want to salute him but aren't allowed to, so they make a salute motion and then act like they were just running their fingers through their hair?

I imagine the players turning a rule like this into some kind of game South Park style where they find new terms to make a mockery of the rule, which might be kind of fun and not necessarily a bad thing as a kind of satire on the idea of "bad words" versus bad thoughts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0aI-4w1bW8

bankshot1 · Feb 22, 2014

So help me out here, if you call 1 player, the "n"-word" (or maybe the "f"-word), thats a 15 yard penalty for unsportsman-like conduct, but if you call 53 guys from Washington the "R-word, thats ok?

Reverend · Feb 22, 2014

mascho said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0aI-4w1bW8

How long before some leader of men on one of the teams finds the Racial Slur Database and starts putting obscure ones in the cadence?

Reverend · Feb 22, 2014

bankshot1 said:
So help me out here, if you call 1 player, the "n"-word" (or maybe the "f"-word), thats a 15 yard penalty for unsportsman-like conduct, but if you call 53 guys from Washington the "R-word, thats ok?

This is well stated.

54thMA · Feb 22, 2014

What a moronic, idiotic, kneejerk reaction by the NFL to the shitstorm in Miami.

Can't wait for Rex Ryan to tell the refs before they play the Patriots "Hey, watch them as they use that word a lot", so they can call it once this year like the illegal pushing penalty from last year.

LogansDad · Feb 22, 2014

bankshot1 said:
So help me out here, if you call 1 player, the "n"-word" (or maybe the "f"-word), thats a 15 yard penalty for unsportsman-like conduct, but if you call 53 guys from Washington the "R-word, thats ok?

Well said.

Also, why just the "n-word"? There are plenty of other racial slurs out there that people use, and not just to disparage black people. Yet the article simply states "n-word". I guess I just don't understand the specificity of this.

mabrowndog · Feb 22, 2014

LogansDad said:
There are plenty of other racial slurs out there that people use, and not just to disparage black people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnRkCemeV7k

RhaegarTharen · Feb 22, 2014

Reverend said:
Did anyone else see that movie where Robert Redford was an officer sent to a military prison who earns the respect of all the inmates and teaches them self-respect and all that good bs and they want to salute him but aren't allowed to, so they make a salute motion and then act like they were just running their fingers through their hair?

I imagine the players turning a rule like this into some kind of game South Park style where they find new terms to make a mockery of the rule, which might be kind of fun and not necessarily a bad thing as a kind of satire on the idea of "bad words" versus bad thoughts.

The Last Castle. Even more in point, I believe the inmates were not allowed to refer to each other by their previous ranks, so they developed substitutes, like "Chief". As others have mentioned, it won't take long for players to find enterprising ways around this rule.

I stand by my previous stance. This will get called very infrequently, probably only when players are already fighting on the field, at which point, it's just extra yards tacked on (or offsetting). It's mostly a token boiler plate CYA for the NFL to hide behind.

NortheasternPJ · Feb 22, 2014

LogansDad said:
Well said.

Also, why just the "n-word"? There are plenty of other racial slurs out there that people use, and not just to disparage black people. Yet the article simply states "n-word". I guess I just don't understand the specificity of this.

It'd be better if it banned only white players from using it. We need to preserve the NFLs culture!!!

bankshot1 · Feb 22, 2014

There are plenty of other racial slurs out there that people use, and not just to disparage black people.

For those who remember and appreciate Firesign Theatre

"What Makes America Great"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-4YF7S7rHo

you can skip to 50 seconds

YTF · Feb 22, 2014

bankshot1 said:
So help me out here, if you call 1 player, the "n"-word" (or maybe the "f"-word), thats a 15 yard penalty for unsportsman-like conduct, but if you call 53 guys from Washington the "R-word, thats ok?

Would absolutely love to hear this question posed to The Commish and hear what his response would be. I would have to think that the rule should also encompass any other racial or homophobic slurs. The "N" word may be more inflammatory to a larger group of people, but it's really no worse than any other slur. So how does the league handle this? Is each official given THE LIST? And who determines what goes on THE LIST? And what happens if an official THINKS he heard a slur from THE LIST that wasn't actually uttered? Does the NFL employ lip reading specialists in the replay booth? And of course you know any player flagged is going to claim he never said the word he was flagged for.

edoug · Feb 22, 2014

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AltWj4iAmno

mauf · Feb 22, 2014

What percentage of on-field uses of the N-word are by a black person, against another black person? It has to be something like 99%, right?

BigJimEd · Feb 23, 2014

Other reports talk more about fines.

I like that the NFL is discussing ways to get rid of slurs. If they decide to penalize it then I'm OK with that.

There is no reason for that type of talk.

AlNipper49 · Feb 23, 2014

YTF said:
And what happens if an official THINKS he heard a slur from THE LIST that wasn't actually uttered? Does the NFL employ lip reading specialists in the replay booth? And of course you know any player flagged is going to claim he never said the word he was flagged for.

Van Everyman · Feb 23, 2014

maufman said:
What percentage of on-field uses of the N-word are by a black person, against another black person? It has to be something like 99%, right?

Richie Incognito approves of this line of inquiry.

mauf · Feb 23, 2014

Van Everyman said:
Richie Incognito approves of this line of inquiry.

I asked the question because if Incognito is an anomaly -- as I suspect he is -- I don't like this rule.

The NFL is a workplace. You can't use the n-word in most workplaces. You also can't use the r-word, or call your colleague's sister a whore, or say any number of other things that are apparently accepted on an NFL field. If Goodell wants to crack down on all of that for PR reasons, that's fine, but telling black men they can't use the n-word while letting everything else slide rubs me the wrong way. I realize this is a controversial subject, but I don't think it's up to white guys like Roger Goodell (or me) to lecture black men on the appropriateness of that word.

If incognito is not anomalous, however, then I feel differently -- it's vile for white men to use that word, even in jest, and aside from the moral angle, it presents a PR problem for the league that's qualitatively different than garden-variety trash talk.

SemperFidelisSox · Feb 23, 2014

I wonder if this rule will only be enforced if you're unlucky enough to get caught by the ref, or if the NFL will review game film using the field mics to catch anyone using the word.

Infield Infidel · Feb 23, 2014

If this is a reaction to the Incognito/Martin stuff, it's weird. What is the penalty for using the N-word off the field?

I totally don't care about trash-talking on the field, as long as that is where it stays, and it isn't directed at refs. Plenty of players know how to turn off the field mentality when they leave the field

ALiveH · Feb 23, 2014

something like 95% of the time I've heard the n-word either in the media or in real life it was a black person saying it. I'd suspect if this rule was enforced to the letter a similar percentage would get flagged in the NFL. Sort of defeats the "racial slur" stated purpose of the new rule.

I'm not sure why the n-word gets special treatment here either. I'm pretty sure the m-f word isn't tolerated in most workplaces and gets used all the time on the field. Same for the f-word slur for homosexuals.

As for redskin, people say "redskin" all the time at workplaces all over the country when talking about the eponymous team and it's tolerated by everyone. Actually one of my co-workers is a redskins fan and wears redskins gear & talks about them constantly and it's never been an issue.

BigJimEd · Feb 24, 2014

maufman said:
but I don't think it's up to white guys like Roger Goodell (or me) to lecture black men on the appropriateness of that word.

This isn't Goodell and other white guys pushing something through. This is the Fritz Pollard Alliance asking for something to be done.

And we don't have any idea what the rule may or may not be. Ozzie said the competition committee has talked about cleaning up the language on the field and that they will discuss it more

"We will now go down to Naples starting next Friday and spend more time talking about it,'' Newsome said. "We had some officials in our meeting that actually out there on the field and hear the language. We'll be able to put all that together and if there's a need to we will present something to our owners in Orlando.
"With any rule that we put into play we have to look at it from A to Z and find out any unintended consequences as much as the consequences. So, as it was stated in our meeting, there are mics everywhere, so if something has been said it's probably going to be captured somewhere. So there will be an opportunity to get it verified if we have to."

Doesn't sound like they have even outlined a proposal yet.

I think the fact that they are taking a look at it is a good thing. I think most of the complaints in this thread are a little premature until we find out what, if anything, the competition committee proposes.

Van Everyman · Feb 24, 2014

maufman said:
I asked the question because if Incognito is an anomaly -- as I suspect he is -- I don't like this rule.

I don't – tho I suspect Goodell would prefer it be seen that way. The hallmark of his leadership of the league so far is to try to make an example of institutionalized malfeasance—spying, headhunting, etc.—to sweep it under the rug in the age of social media. He's probably thinking that if he doesn't do away w the tacitly sanctioned use of the n-word in the wake of Incognito, he's going to being dealing with yet another prolonged look into a dirty facet of the culture for a long time.

I'm not a Goodell fan. But I'm beginning to see the method to his madness.

Reverend · Feb 24, 2014

maufman said:
The NFL is a workplace. You can't use the n-word in most workplaces. You also can't use the r-word, or call your colleague's sister a whore, or say any number of other things that are apparently accepted on an NFL field.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9qtuj8zDWM

Audio NSFW

DJnVa · Feb 24, 2014

SemperFidelisSox said:
I wonder if this rule will only be enforced if you're unlucky enough to get caught by the ref, or if the NFL will review game film using the field mics to catch anyone using the word.

Review game film and retroactively issue a 15 yard penalty on Tuesday? This is clearly up to the onfield guys.

Here's what will happen:

--most of the time, it'll be teammate talking to teammate (and if it wasn't that's what will be claimed)
--if a white guy is penalized, we'll have weeks of press conferences, etc and and Peter King columns dissecting this

BannedbyNYYFans.com · Feb 24, 2014

maufman said:
What percentage of on-field uses of the N-word are by a black person, against another black person? It has to be something like 99%, right

Steelers DB, Ryan Clark, said on ESPN that in his 12 year NFL career, he's never heard the word come from a non black player. Said he's heard it directed at him hundreds of times from black players - sometimes in anger, but mostly in a brotherly, loving way to celebrate a good play.

Case in point, Riley Cooper. He's a real tough guy saying it at a Kenny Chesney concert....but surrounded by African Americans on a football field, not so much.

By the way, Clark said he refuses to use the word.

YTF · Feb 24, 2014

ALiveH said:
something like 95% of the time I've heard the n-word either in the media or in real life it was a black person saying it. I'd suspect if this rule was enforced to the letter a similar percentage would get flagged in the NFL. Sort of defeats the "racial slur" stated purpose of the new rule.

I'm not sure why the n-word gets special treatment here either. I'm pretty sure the m-f word isn't tolerated in most workplaces and gets used all the time on the field. Same for the f-word slur for homosexuals.

As for redskin, people say "redskin" all the time at workplaces all over the country when talking about the eponymous team and it's tolerated by everyone. Actually one of my co-workers is a redskins fan and wears redskins gear & talks about them constantly and it's never been an issue.

We may be of different ages, different backgrounds, cultures and/or different geography, but I would say (excluding the media part of this quote) that 95% of the time I've heard the word used it was by white people and not in a brotherly or affectionate way. I understand that the word seems to have different meanings depending on the user and context, but for me it still conjures up a time when it was nothing but a derogatory term. That said, I really see this rule and it's enforcement being largely ignored. Both by those in violation and those charged with enforcement.

dcmissle · Feb 24, 2014

BannedbyNYYFans.com said:
Steelers DB, Ryan Clark, said on ESPN that in his 12 year NFL career, he's never heard the word come from a non black player. Said he's heard it directed at him hundreds of times from black players - sometimes in anger, but mostly in a brotherly, loving way to celebrate a good play.

Case in point, Riley Cooper. He's a real tough guy saying it at a Kenny Chesney concert....but surrounded by African Americans on a football field, not so much.

By the way, Clark said he refuses to use the word.

Confirmed by Golic this morning. He retired in "93. Never heard it used on the field by non AA player. What goes on in the locker room is different but would not be affected by this new rule.

Protect the shield.

IdiotKicker · Feb 24, 2014

The biggest problem I see with this is what happens if you have a huge pile and all of a sudden a "Fuck you, n-word" comes out of it? You have no idea who the hell said it. It's not like a traditional personal foul when a player is up in a ref's face or a taunting penalty where it's clear that one guy is doing something to another. How the hell are you actually going to police this? Shit, if I were a running back, every time I got tackled, I'd just yell, "I got you, n-word" from the bottom of the pile and hope for a call. And I came up with that in about three seconds. Stupid rule. Unless of course it is going to never actually be enforced, kind of like the time limit for pitches in baseball, in which case throw it on the books and run with it.

You can't legislate this out of the game. It has to come from the people who run the teams and the players actually wanting better locker rooms. If a coach and GM want to run their team a certain way, I can see it making a difference, but I can't see something like this actually doing it. I'm all for getting rid of slurs, but simply penalizing them within a game is not going to make a difference.

Doug Beerabelli · Feb 24, 2014

As long as they enforce it no matter who says it, and no matter to whom it is said, I'm all for hilarious debacle that will result.

But why stop there? How about cracker, honkey, redneck, kike, guinea, fag etc etc etc?

lambeau · Feb 27, 2014

In his treatise on the subject, Randall Kennedy not only supports the use of the word as a term of endearment, he goes so far as to endorse many uses of the term by whites. To whit: when LBJ dismissed the little-known A. Leon Higginbotham as a candidate for the Supreme Court, he objected "Listen, when I put a n----r on the Court, I want everybody to know he's a n-----!" Kennedy thinks that despite a long history of racist behavior, on this day LBJ was engaging
in a parody of racism as he historically reformed it.Kennedy clerked for Thurgood Marshall, and says he thoroughly enjoyed jokes using the word.Kennedy is even generally supportive of the Central Michigan basketball coach who at half-time politely asked permission of his players to borrow their language, and then yelled at them: "I need more n-----s out there!" In other words, its all in the context, and we don't want to ban Mark Twain or Chris Rock.

Language is evocative, however,and Ozzie Newsome might want to be a little careful saying "my owners" will decide the issue after debating it at the next meeting, and Herm Edwards saying of the stadium and locker room "It's not your house! You gotta do what the owner says when you're in his house!"

http://books.google.com/books/about/Nigger.html?id=VgVzXgUxFB4C

natpastime162 · Feb 28, 2014

sleepyjose03 said:
The Last Castle. Even more in point, I believe the inmates were not allowed to refer to each other by their previous ranks, so they developed substitutes, like "Chief". As others have mentioned, it won't take long for players to find enterprising ways around this rule.

I stand by my previous stance. This will get called very infrequently, probably only when players are already fighting on the field, at which point, it's just extra yards tacked on (or offsetting). It's mostly a token boiler plate CYA for the NFL to hide behind.

We were discussing this topic at work the other day and a coworker recalled the Roy Hibbert incident for when players (in this instance) use "No Homo" to describe plutonic affection with other men.

dbn · Mar 3, 2014

DrewDawg said:
Review game film and retroactively issue a 15 yard penalty on Tuesday? This is clearly up to the onfield guys.

Here's what will happen:

--most of the time, it'll be teammate talking to teammate (and if it wasn't that's what will be claimed)
--if a white guy is penalized, we'll have weeks of press conferences, etc and and Peter King columns dissecting this

Noooooo!!!!!!!!

Richard Sherman says he hears it almost every series.

"It's an atrocious idea," the Seattle Seahawks star cornerback told the website. "It's almost racist, to me. It's weird they're targeting one specific word. Why wouldn't all curse words be banned then?"

ALiveH · Mar 3, 2014

Sherman actually has a great point. If you read all his comments he's basically saying it's a racist rule since if it's enforced consistently it's going to predominantly target black players.

Reverend · Mar 3, 2014

ALiveH said:
Sherman actually has a great point. If you read all his comments he's basically saying it's a racist rule since if it's enforced consistently it's going to predominantly target black players.

I think that's what maufman was getting at before: having a white guy like Goodell--especially one like Goodell--is a bit... untoward? Sorta reeks of White Man's Burden to clean their shit up.

GlenMorangie · Mar 3, 2014

Reverend · Mar 3, 2014

GlenMorangie said:
Agreed. I say implement the rule, and then after the first play of the first game, a player yells "Nice play blackskin!" as loudly as possible. See the refs scratch heads and call the booth.

"I'm comin' for YOU, cupcake!! That's right sugar plumb, that'll be my foot you feel up your sweetums!!"

Montana Fan · Mar 4, 2014

Reverend said:
"I'm comin' for YOU, cupcake!! That's right sugar plumb, that'll be my foot you feel up your sweetums!!"

What's up my wigga?

dbn · Mar 4, 2014

ALiveH said:
Sherman actually has a great point. If you read all his comments he's basically saying it's a racist rule since if it's enforced consistently it's going to predominantly target black players.

Oh, I agree with Sherman. For once.

MoGator71 · Mar 6, 2014

Doug Beerabelli said:
As long as they enforce it no matter who says it, and no matter to whom it is said, I'm all for hilarious debacle that will result.

But why stop there? How about cracker, honkey, redneck, kike, guinea, (SPAM filter) etc etc etc?

Apparently our filter has an opinion about one of these words being "worse" than the others. Ironic. I'm guessing it was the "f-word"

I'm thinking this shouldn't be an issue. How many white guys do you really think are running around NFL stadiums and locker rooms throwing the n-word around all over the place? Based on the initial reactions to the Riley Cooper thing I'm thinking it's pretty unusual.

Granite Sox · Mar 6, 2014

I believe the proposal covers "any" racial slur, not just the N-word. May not make a difference overall in terms of ease of enforcement, but Sherman may have misinterpreted a query and was baited into a sound bite. A rather impulsive fellow at times, that Richard.

NFL to Penalize Racial Slurs?

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