NFL promotion/relegation

shaggydog2000

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Apr 5, 2007
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Promotion/relegation is one of the best things about European football, but it's also been baked into the system since the start, so it is hard to transplant onto other systems. The sheer value of being an NFL team, even if you're the worst one, is so large that no team owner would ever agree to a system by which they would lose that value. Being the worst top division team in a Euro football league is worth more than being one of the best in the second division, but the leagues are able compensate the relegated teams to cover some of the difference for the first year or two, and overall the change is not as dramatic. But it is really fun to think about it.

And the top college football teams are mostly paid professionals anyway, so I don't see an issue with that part of the plan.
 

DJnVa

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Dec 16, 2010
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That's true, but in this system, none of these NFL team would be relegated to playing against small club teams in tiny stadiums--it's all the same 32 teams.

Imagine week 15 of the season with 2 sets of playoff bids on the line?
 

BaseballJones

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Oct 1, 2015
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Cool concept. Except for what those last four teams in the Marino Division would be playing for - that serves no purpose except abject humiliation.

You'd have to rework the schedules and such, but I'd not recommend a totally unbalanced schedule - that is, I wouldn't have everyone in the Montana Division only play other teams in the Montana Division, etc. But it could be tilted that way. Geography would no longer play a role. No such thing as division rivalries either.

But I love that you'd have three sets of playoffs. One set for the Montana Division championship (the Lombardi) and the other two see who gets to be in the Montana Division and who gets relegated (or left) in the Marino Division.

No doubt the competition in that second layer of playoffs would be super intense as well, as their chances of winning a Super Bowl NEXT hear hinge on their placement which results from the "relegation playoffs" THIS year.

Man that would be fun.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Obviously this idea would never be implemented in practice, but I agree it's fun to think about.

I have two suggested tweaks. First, rather than the four team playoff for the Super Bowl described in the article, make it a six-team playoff with the top five teams in the Montana division (top two get a bye) and then have the sixth seed be the winner of the Marino division playoff. This would add extra drama to the Marino division playoff and also avoid a situation where a great team has one bad year, gets relegated, and then has no chance at a Super Bowl despite being clearly one of the best four teams. For example, let's say Brady and maybe a few key members of the defense get hurt one year and the Pats get relegated, but then everyone comes back the next year and they destroy the Marino division, going 16-0. Under the tweaked system, they'd still have a shot at the Super Bowl, albeit a much harder one (they'd have to win FIVE playoff games compared to the top-two finishers in the Montana division, who would only need to win two).

The second tweak would be to change the playoff of the bottom four teams in the Marino division, which as BaseballJones says doesn't really serve any purpose. You could have them play for the #1 pick in the next year's draft, which would create all sorts of storylines (imagine a shitty QB playing in this tournament knowing if they win his team will probably draft his replacement - does he tank on purpose or would doing so just speed his exit from the team even more?). Or you could just have the reward be cold, hard cash in the form of bonuses for the players and some kind of payment to the team itself.
 

InstaFace

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Read the article, the guy has some sense to him. I love everything but the Toilet Bowl playoffs, where it's unclear to me what the Browns would do if for one season they were replaced by the Calgary Stampeders. Do they have to take their NFL roster and play in the CFL for a year, with CFL rules, and then regardless of how they do, they're back in the playoffs to return to the NFL? What happens if the Calgary Stampeders, having won promotion to the NFL, don't finish in the bottom 4 in the Marino Division the next year? Do they get to stay, and another team from one of the other American Football-like leagues might be able to join them too?

I'm sure we can figure out a way to suitably humiliate the bottom team in the league. Making them play a game against the CFB Champions that's "strictly for charity" (but also implicitly for pride / professional dignity) would certainly be enough.

But as for the rest of it, it would certainly decrease the number of useless games. It would give us a way to say that a team was definitely the best team of the season based on the round-robin, rather than a high-variance one-game playoff. There'd be multiple things to win - the league-competition title and the playoff title, not to mention promotion from the lower division. And it'd be a great way to expand the league a bit more, since you could add 4 teams to the league (2 to each division) and increase the regular-season schedule to 17 games. Obviously will never happen, but it has enough appeal that I wouldn't have a problem if they gave that system a run for a few years (after rethinking the "Toilet Bowl" concept).
 

mauf

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With English soccer teams increasingly sorted into haves and have-nots, I doubt we'll ever see another run like Swansea City's, let alone Leicester City's. Therefore, relegation in English soccer is mostly about the bottom teams in the Premiership and the top teams in the Championship changing places from time to time. And frankly, it only generates so much excitement because most of the top teams have nothing to play for by that point -- the relegation race is the only exciting thing happening in English soccer.

The NFL could havethe bottom-8 teams compete in a playoff for the #1 draft pick, and perhaps an easier schedule the next season. But aside from hard-core fans of the affected teams, who would watch? The playoffs take all the oxygen out of the tent. If the EPL had playoffs, no one would pay attention to the relegation games except the fans of the hapless clubs involved.
 

mwonow

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I love this idea. Would the Jets, Niners et al. tank if they knew that the outcome was relegation?

I like the idea of having one second-division team included in the Super Bowl tourney.

One other tweak I'd suggest - TV money adjusted so that the first division gets more. Tankers/hapless owners should be hit financially as well as with relegation.
 

DJnVa

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The NFL could havethe bottom-8 teams compete in a playoff for the #1 draft pick, and perhaps an easier schedule the next season. But aside from hard-core fans of the affected teams, who would watch? The playoffs take all the oxygen out of the tent. If the EPL had playoffs, no one would pay attention to the relegation games except the fans of the hapless clubs involved.
I disagree.

The average viewers for an NBA playoff game last year was about 4.7 million. That's about half of the people that watch shitty Thursday Night Football games.

You could start the lower division games a week or 2 sooner to allow for lower division champ to slide into upper division playoffs, but that might be too many games played. Although it would be awesome for some 10-6 lower division team to advance while some 11-5 upper division team was left out.

But even if the lower champs doesn't jump up imagine lower division playoff games on Saturday--for a chance to join the big boy division and others playing for #1 draft pick. Then on Sunday the upper division takes over.
 
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staz

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I mean as a fan, it's kinda a fun concept, but I fail to see even the slightest appeal to the league or its owners. Where's the financial gain? If anything, the league stands to lose potentially significant revenue, with the franchises that would need it the most in the crosshairs. I get the revenue sharing angle, but the whole system looks like a net loss for the league.
 

Blue Monkey

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I don't like it. There's too much parody in the nfl... So I'm assuming the top teams in the Montana division would still compete for the super bowl title? Teams in the Marino division have no chance?? How many times have we seen a last place team finish first the next season? Interesting idea but the owners would never vote it in.
 

DJnVa

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I don't like it. There's too much parody in the nfl... So I'm assuming the top teams in the Montana division would still compete for the super bowl title? Teams in the Marino division have no chance?? How many times have we seen a last place team finish first the next season? Interesting idea but the owners would never vote it in.
To much parody huh? lol

However, the answers to your questions are in the article, did you read it?

And no one is thinking this is a serious concept, it's just a conversation piece.
 

Blue Monkey

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To much parody huh? lol

However, the answers to your questions are in the article, did you read it?

And no one is thinking this is a serious concept, it's just a conversation piece.
I skipped the article and went straight for the hot take! I will take the chance to read it now
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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I don't think it would fly, for the reasons discussed, but I have another European-football type idea.

Divisions within leagues, where teams play their division rivals more and other teams less or not at all, have no analogue in soccer. They're cool but they sometimes distort things depending on strength of division, or lack thereof.

I was thinking about redoing the NFL schedule like this: instead of having divisions, a team in the AFC, for instance, plays each other AFC team once - that's 15 games - and then one NFC team - either the team that finished in the like position last year - so 1AFC plays 1NFC, 2AFC v. 2NFC, etc.; or seeded like an NCAA bracket, so 1AFC plays 16NFC, 2AFC plays 15NFC, etc. (I like that better).

Then each conference is ranked 1-16. Top 6 make the playoffs, like now.

Obviously you'd lose the divisions and 3 games of interconference, but I think it would be cool to have the same "fixtures" year after year, and to have each team play each other team once. More importantly, no one would squeak by in a weak division or be screwed by a strong one - everyone would be playing essentially the same schedule.

If you really wanted to have fun with it, you could base the number of home games in each conference on last season's regular season order of finish. Let's say we have this system in 2020, and the order of finish in the AFC is:

1. New England
2. Denver
3. Oakland

----skipping 4 through 13, you'll get the idea---

14. Jacksonville
15. Baltimore
16. NY Jets

NFC is:

1. Minnesota
2. Seattle
3. Carolina

---snip---

14. San Francisco
15. Washington
16. Tampa Bay

So in 2021:

the Patriots would have 16 home games: against AFC 2-16, and against NFC16 (Tampa Bay).

Denver, AFC2 would have 15 home games- AFC 3-14, and NFC15 (Washington), and would only travel to the team above it- New England.

Oakland, AFC3, would have 14 home games, including against NFC 14 San Francisco, and would be away only to NE and Denver.

At the bottom, NY Jets, AFC16, would have 0 home games, 16 road games, including at NFC1 Minnesota.

Baltimore, AFC15, would only have 1 home game, against AFC16 Jets, and would otherwise travel for 15 games, including to NFC2 Seattle.

Of course the owners would never go for empty stadiums, but it would be cool as shit. No tanking, that's for sure.
 

The Gray Eagle

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Relegation's fun to think about. Not going to happen, as most have said. But if I was in charge of it, I'd make an 8-team B Division, with the other 24 split into the AFC East and West and NFC East and West, 6 teams in each. (Over time, the teams in the AFC and NFC would start switching around, but that's nothing that hasn't already happened. Doesn't seem like a big deal.)

The 4 division winners and 3 best other teams are joined in the playoffs by the winner of the B Division, so that theoretically every team, even in the lowly B Division, has a chance at winning the Super Bowl at the start of the season. You'd still have AFC and NFC champs meeting in the Super Bowl.

The 4 last place teams in each division and the 2 other teams with the worst records would be in the relegation playoffs, with 3 teams dropping down. The teams that win their playoff games stay up the next year, while the other 3 drop down into the B Division the next year.

The 5th, 4th, 3rd and second placed teams in the B Division would be in the Promotion playoffs, with the two winners joining the B division champs in the higher division.

With this system, almost every team in the league would be in the running for something important for the whole season to the very end, and there would be crucial postseason playoff games for 19 teams, but still only 8 playoff teams with a chance to win the Super Bowl. You'd still have teams competing competing to be AFC and NFC champions, who then meet in the Super Bowl, so a lot of tradition would be kept.

Get rid of the bye week before the Super Bowl, and give the teams in the regular playoffs a week off to heal and prepare while the first weekend after the end of the regular season becomes the Promotion and Relegation playoffs: 2 games each on Saturday, Sunday and Monday that are all crucial to those franchises and their fanbases, with a ton at stake.

When that's all settled, the regular playoffs start the following weekend with 8 teams fighting for the championship.

If this plan had been put in place before last season, then going by overall records, the first teams sent down to form the B Division would have been Cleveland, Jacksonville, Chicago, SF, Rams, Jets, Chargers, and Carolina, who finished 6-10. Right on the bubble to the end would have been Cinn., Buff., Philly, AZ and the Saints, all of whom finished within a game of the drop zone.

There would have been hardly any meaningless games with teams resting players or going through the motions. More importantly to the NFL, with all teams playing significant games, gambling, pools and fantasy leagues would not be messed with, keeping interest high.

With 3 teams promoted each year, if your team is relegated but isn't completely hopeless, then they have a decent shot of escaping after only one year in the B Division. Just don't be one of the 3 worst teams in the league and you get playoff game to move up.

Even if a team looks hopeless going into the season, they will be facing easy competition and they can make the real playoffs if they win an 8-team division filled with scrubs.

If a team in the first division is under .500 late in the season, then they would need to be worried about relegation and would need to show a lot more urgency every week than those teams do now.

In this system, you'd have 6 more playoff games each year which would certainly generate high ratings at least in the local markets (and I'd guess nationally too.) These high-stakes do-or-die games would all be wrapped up in one weekend. Then a pretty basic and traditional playoff system would start, with 8 teams battling to see who wins the AFC and NFC to go to the Super Bowl.
 

InstaFace

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TGE, in your model, would teams play home-and-homes against all the other teams in their division? Which games would the B division play?
 

Kliq

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I think out of all the sports the NFL playoffs are the best designed. I think the exact right amount of teams make the playoffs, the top teams are rewarded with byes and home field advantage, but the wild card teams still have a punchers chance at getting to the Super Bowl.
 

The Gray Eagle

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TGE, in your model, would teams play home-and-homes against all the other teams in their division? Which games would the B division play?
I haven't thought much about scheduling, but it seems like you could have the top division teams play home and home with everyone in their division (10 games) and the B Division teams doing the same (14 games). That would leave each B Division team with 2 games per year against the top division, which you could try to schedule to preserve rivalries and/or have them play teams that are geographically close to cut down on travel a bit.
Some upper division teams could get a couple games against B division teams while others might not get any, but that doesn't seem like a big deal-- the current scheduling has some contenders getting easier schedules than others, that's just the way it goes. The way it is now if you're in Cleveland's division, or the Jets, then you get those teams twice a year while teams in other divisions don't play them at all.

For the draft, you could have the bottom 3 B Division teams (the only ones who wouldn't have Promotion Playoff games) have a draft lottery for the top overall pick. Those teams would get the top 3 picks, and the next 5 would go to the teams who will be in the B Division the next year. So if you get relegated you get at least a top 8 pick in the draft.
 

mwonow

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Could we give the B division teams all the Thursday night games? They suck anyway...