NFL Officiating: Zebras gone wild

Dim13

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This is the thing….unless a controversial call occurs at the end of the game, it never sticks in the National narrative following that game. The broadcasters, the league, the media, they’re all conditioned to want to move on if bad officiating couldn’t be pegged as literally outcome determinative in the game. This is especially true if that bad officiating protects star players/the biggest teams.

It’s just how it works.
Holy crap, this hits the nail on the head. When the final whistle blows, Houston lost by two scores. The fact that a huge call happened in the third quarter to benefit the chiefs is conveniently swept under the rug. Because it can’t be directly tied to the end result.
 

soxhop411

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forcible contact to the hairline is what i will say when the barber messes up my haircut
 

Cellar-Door

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Honestly they should just let them review for "forcible contact", I get it is hypothetically a judgement call and they don't want to review it, but if you just set it at "clearly not significant contact" then at least 1 maybe both bad calls get overturned, as it was, because the standard to overturn is "clear evidence of no contact at all with the head or neck"... then grazing the facemask on the first and some incidental sliding over the helmet in the second made them "correct" calls.

Edit- especially because live it's really hard to tell. The 1st one looked terrible live, coming high, head snaps back.... but in slow-mo you can tell that it's 99% shoulder with a slight graze of the mask on the follow.
 

sezwho

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IMO the key variable isn’t the public as the post you are replying to says. It’s the owners. The owners drove the bus that was deflategate. As of now, the owners are driving the idea to protect quarterbacks at all cost. No one knows this and exploits this more than Mahomes. If he decides a playoff game on his bullshit maybe something will change. Probably not.
Yeah that’s a good thing for me to remember - believe there’s probably a push pull with the league and its relationship with the public vs the owners. Sometimes Human Shield (aka Goodell) may try to lead owners and in others he’s wartime consigliere.

Quick derail - imho crossing the combo is what truly F’d the Pats for deflategate (well…plus deflating the footballs lol). The other owners had it for them already and then when the news first broke I’m pretty sure Kraft came guns blazing claiming the league would end up apologizing. Any remaining neutral observer that might have existed in the league office or in ownership would have been set on fire.

/sorryforderail
 

streeter88

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As a counterpoint, though I agree the refereeing is often KC positive and needs to be addressed...

Houston lost by 9. Imagine how the game might have played out had their special teams not given up 10 points? (fumble on opening KO = KC FG, their own missed FG and blocked FG, and a missed PAT).
 

JCizzle

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Honestly they should just let them review for "forcible contact", I get it is hypothetically a judgement call and they don't want to review it, but if you just set it at "clearly not significant contact" then at least 1 maybe both bad calls get overturned, as it was, because the standard to overturn is "clear evidence of no contact at all with the head or neck"... then grazing the facemask on the first and some incidental sliding over the helmet in the second made them "correct" calls.

Edit- especially because live it's really hard to tell. The 1st one looked terrible live, coming high, head snaps back.... but in slow-mo you can tell that it's 99% shoulder with a slight graze of the mask on the follow.
For the second one, I just hate the situation. You have a QB that’s beyond the line of scrimmage acting like a runner. Two defenders are coming in to tackle him like they would a RB, WR, whatever. Then he just falls on his ass in the middle of the field a fraction of a second before getting hit and causes whatever helmet contact by falling in the first place. I think his flop later in the game demonstrates he does that shit on purpose and it’s really annoying to watch. It’s probably the right call technically, but I don’t think it’s in the spirit of the rule.

In my opinion, QBs are rightfully protected enough that any attempt to game the system by fake running out of bounds or pulling shit like that should be penalized. Pickett had an egregious example in a bowl game a few years ago and I think they changed the rule in college a bit as a result.
 

rodderick

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IMO the key variable isn’t the public as the post you are replying to says. It’s the owners. The owners drove the bus that was deflategate. As of now, the owners are driving the idea to protect quarterbacks at all cost. No one knows this and exploits this more than Mahomes. If he decides a playoff game on his bullshit maybe something will change. Probably not.
He has decided a playoff game on this bullshit against the Bengals and nothing happened.
 

Rusty Gate

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These were not egregiously bad calls. The hit on Mahomes on the sideline was not called a foul. Instead, maybe there should be a rule allowing a penalty on Mahomes when he is clearly trying to bait the defense into a penalty.
 

joe dokes

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I would add
This is NK levels of propaganda. When you literally have your marquee broadcasters calling out these bullshit calls in real time (Troy and Joe). And many more on social media doing the same, Going full on Bagdad Bob makes this look even worse for the league
View: https://twitter.com/tompelissero/status/1881038229983662256?s=46
OK. So lets take the propagandists at their word that it was a penalty. Maybe, technically, it was. The follow-up isn't "no it wasn't." No one can seriously argue that either one of the Mahomes hits *should* be a penalty. The rule needs to be adjusted.
 

jk333

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These were not egregiously bad calls. The hit on Mahomes on the sideline was not called a foul. Instead, maybe there should be a rule allowing a penalty on Mahomes when he is clearly trying to bait the defense into a penalty.
Agree with all of this. The calls were bad because the rules stink, not because they were the wrong calls. That said, I like your idea, 15 yard penalty only for QBs when they dive. They get the protection of the rules and now their own penalty.
 

Silverdude2167

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These were not egregiously bad calls. The hit on Mahomes on the sideline was not called a foul. Instead, maybe there should be a rule allowing a penalty on Mahomes when he is clearly trying to bait the defense into a penalty.
The second one was a terrible call. In no way was what he did a slide and also he was not touched. The first one in the moment I understand how the flag was thrown, but it should have been picked up.
 

snowmanny

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I didn’t even know you could choose to slide in any direction. Can you slide back towards your own endzone?
 

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For the second one, I just hate the situation. You have a QB that’s beyond the line of scrimmage acting like a runner. Two defenders are coming in to tackle him like they would a RB, WR, whatever. Then he just falls on his ass in the middle of the field a fraction of a second before getting hit and causes whatever helmet contact by falling in the first place. I think his flop later in the game demonstrates he does that shit on purpose and it’s really annoying to watch. It’s probably the right call technically, but I don’t think it’s in the spirit of the rule.

In my opinion, QBs are rightfully protected enough that any attempt to game the system by fake running out of bounds or pulling shit like that should be penalized. Pickett had an egregious example in a bowl game a few years ago and I think they changed the rule in college a bit as a result.
Thank you for saving me having to type all that.
 

ragnarok725

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Agree with all of this. The calls were bad because the rules stink, not because they were the wrong calls. That said, I like your idea, 15 yard penalty only for QBs when they dive. They get the protection of the rules and now their own penalty.
As satisfying as it might be to see Mahomes get flagged for a new penalty like that, I can't help but think adding more judgment calls for the refs to screw up probably doesn't make the situation better.

The only solution I've discussed that feels good to me is to treat QBs the exact same as every other runner once they pass the line of scrimmage, and remove extra late hit protections from feet first slides. If you want to slide, you have to do it way in advance, and it doesn't necessarily protect you from a hit, same as if a WR did it. If that has a chilling effect on QBs running, so be it. If it means a few QBs get themselves hurt by inviting contact, then that's their choice. This different set of rules is just too distasteful.

The hits in the pocket being flagged are more ok with me. Adjust the dial up or down, whatever. They're not being gamed in the same way slides or sideline hits are.
 

BigSoxFan

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I just have no idea what defenders are supposed to do when Mahomes is running. If it’s in the middle of the field, he’ll slide late and you’ll get flagged. If it’s near the sidelines, he’ll try to bait you into a late hit and will flop and you’ll get flagged.

If you let up, he’ll take extra yards and everyone will cream their pants at how clever he is. It’s such a difficult position for defenders to be in.
 

Bowhemian

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I just have no idea what defenders are supposed to do when Mahomes is running. If it’s in the middle of the field, he’ll slide late and you’ll get flagged. If it’s near the sidelines, he’ll try to bait you into a late hit and will flop and you’ll get flagged.

If you let up, he’ll take extra yards and everyone will cream their pants at how clever he is. It’s such a difficult position for defenders to be in.
IMO it’s only a matter of time until a defender takes one for the team and lights Mahomes up along the sideline. That sideline dive he took yesterday was pathetic.
 

glennhoffmania

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These were not egregiously bad calls. The hit on Mahomes on the sideline was not called a foul.
Agreed. But what fun would it be if we didn't have these insane comments talking about propaganda and comparisons to North Korea?

NFL officiating is hard. And often it sucks. But there's no conspiracy to help KC win games.
 

jk333

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As satisfying as it might be to see Mahomes get flagged for a new penalty like that, I can't help but think adding more judgment calls for the refs to screw up probably doesn't make the situation better.

The only solution I've discussed that feels good to me is to treat QBs the exact same as every other runner once they pass the line of scrimmage, and remove extra late hit protections from feet first slides. If you want to slide, you have to do it way in advance, and it doesn't necessarily protect you from a hit, same as if a WR did it. If that has a chilling effect on QBs running, so be it. If it means a few QBs get themselves hurt by inviting contact, then that's their choice. This different set of rules is just too distasteful.

The hits in the pocket being flagged are more ok with me. Adjust the dial up or down, whatever. They're not being gamed in the same way slides or sideline hits are.
This is all exactly right and probably the way to move forward.

I just think the faux-outrage about these calls is a bit much. The way the rules are, both plays/calls are depending on your judgement either correct or close. It’s the actual rules that’s the problem, not the calls yesterday. I like your idea about changing the rules for QB running to just like everyone else when past the LOS.
 

Euclis20

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Agreed. But what fun would it be if we didn't have these insane comments talking about propaganda and comparisons to North Korea?

NFL officiating is hard. And often it sucks. But there's no conspiracy to help KC win games.
The conspiracy theories just don't make sense, but it's not a stretch to say that:

-There is a real problem with the way that these rules meant to protect the QB are administered, particularly when they leave the pocket.
-Nobody does a better job of taking advantage of the holes in these rules than Patrick Mahomes.

I have no problem with Mahomes trying to bait foul calls like when he flopped his way out of bounds (players exaggerate contact all the time in all sports to try and draw fouls), and honestly a rule change designed to punish plays like this (or Picket's fake slide in college a few years ago) will raise even more issues, as rules meant to penalize flopping in all sports seem to be administered inconsistently and arbitrarily. The only realistic solution is Ragnarok's post above, treating the QB like any other runner once they declare themselves as such (either by leaving the pocket or by passing the LOS), but when was the last time there was a rule change designed to make QB play LESS safe? We've seen Mahomes take advantage of these rules to win multiple playoff games, I don't see why it would change now.
 

joe dokes

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The second one was a terrible call. In no way was what he did a slide and also he was not touched. The first one in the moment I understand how the flag was thrown, but it should have been picked up.
He was touched. Slightly and barely and much less than the two Texans hitting each other.
 
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JokersWildJIMED

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This from Don Van Natta, pretty much sums things up:


“The lopsided officiating threatens the integrity of the game and the quality of the product. Something must be done”.

Obviously legalized gambling throws this to a whole new level, but everyone sees it and it needs to be called out by prominent voices (Aikman and Van Natta are a start), not just the Will Andersons of the league.
 

Valek123

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IMO it’s only a matter of time until a defender takes one for the team and lights Mahomes up along the sideline. That sideline dive he took yesterday was pathetic.
This was what we came to watching the game live. If you are going to be penalized for every time you touch him, then light him up, It’s 15 yards anyway. Stay away from the head and no ejection.

The NFL’s current rules are actually IMO incentivizing blowing Mahomes up. Second tier LB ejection for a starting QB? Dangerous situations are coming and it’s the NFL’s and Chiefs fault for pushing the envelope with flopping and late slides.
 

streeter88

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Bountygate (Saints 2009-2011) cost that team $500K, 2 straight years of 2nd round picks, and lots of fines for individuals - HC Sean Payton was suspended for 1 year, Greg Williams in the DC was suspended indefinitely, etc. If it happened in AFCCG, all bets are off.
 

8slim

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This from Don Van Natta, pretty much sums things up:


“The lopsided officiating threatens the integrity of the game and the quality of the product. Something must be done”.

Obviously legalized gambling throws this to a whole new level, but everyone sees it and it needs to be called out by prominent voices (Aikman and Van Natta are a start), not just the Will Andersons of the league.
People have been saying this forever. If we go back and find any NFL week game thread here from 15 years ago I guarantee there'd be posts about how awful the officiating is and how something "must be done!".

The NFL thinks the officiating is fine. Nothing is going to change.
 

soxhop411

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People have been saying this forever. If we go back and find any NFL week game thread here from 15 years ago I guarantee there'd be posts about how awful the officiating is and how something "must be done!".

The NFL thinks the officiating is fine. Nothing is going to change.
There is a difference between fans saying it and marquee broadcasters and reporters of espn (and other NFL partners).

The fact that those networks that are being paid by the NFL are calling out the bullshit as bullshit is why the NFL cannot pull a baghdad bob and try and say all is well
 

8slim

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There is a difference between fans saying it and marquee broadcasters and reporters of espn (and other NFL partners).

The fact that those networks that are being paid by the NFL are calling out the bullshit as bullshit is why the NFL cannot pull a baghdad bob and try and say all is well
Broadcasters have called out the refs for years as well. Nothing changes. Nothing will change.

Do people really think because Don Van Natta said something about officiating that will tip the scales? Come on.
 

Jimbodandy

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This is NK levels of propaganda. When you literally have your marquee broadcasters calling out these bullshit calls in real time (Troy and Joe). And many more on social media doing the same, Going full on Bagdad Bob makes this look even worse for the league
View: https://twitter.com/tompelissero/status/1881038229983662256?s=46
I hope that nobody takes seriously anything that Walt Fucking Anderson says. Man is a confirmed butcher of the truth and Roger Goodell hired gun. Whatever you think about those calls, assume that Walt is 100% full of shit.
 

NortheasternPJ

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People have been saying this forever. If we go back and find any NFL week game thread here from 15 years ago I guarantee there'd be posts about how awful the officiating is and how something "must be done!".

The NFL thinks the officiating is fine. Nothing is going to change.
I can’t believe I’m going to defend the NFL, but some limited things have changed in positive ways too. I think Pass Interference right now is the best it’s been in 20 years since the Patriots dismantled the Manning Colts. They are calling it more fairly now, on both sides, than anytime I can remember. There was the one shit call this weekend that was a joke, but that seems like it’s the exception. There’s so many more non-calls than in a long time and it’s a better game for it.

Also the flop by Mahomes yesterday would absolutely been called a couple years ago as unnecessary roughness. They generally are better about “hits to the head” when a defender’s hand grazes a QB’s helmet, even though the Roughing yesterday was BS.

The NFL’s also made a ton of shitty decisions and changes as well that vastly overshadow the couple good things they’ve done.

I don’t have faith in the NFL to actually fix the entire issue with QB’s running, but a few tweaks could make it not be ridiculous like it is right now. As a Pats fan, with what is going to be a top 5 running QB in the league, i still hate this shit that’s going on now. You want to run around, you should be any other player.
 

Kremlin Watcher

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There is nothing new in any of this. Coaches and players are generally well ahead of the rules and how officials call games. Aggressive players and coaches will play to the officials as much as possible until they are smacked down and don't get the calls any longer. It's a tale as old as officiating. Once the calls catch up with the players and coaches, they will move on to other areas of boundary-pushing.
 

Oil Can Dan

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The most frustrating part is that the NFL specifically ok'd booth review for roughing the passer, and yet, there was no review. Circling the wagons after the game is to be expected at this point, but they already have an in-game solution, one that's regularly used. Why it didn't happen this time, I have no idea.
If you're talking about the Mahomes run that penalty was not roughing the passer and there was nothing replay review could do about that call.
 

Garshaparra

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If you're talking about the Mahomes run that penalty was not roughing the passer and there was nothing replay review could do about that call.
I'm not, sorry. I should have been clear that I meant the roughing the passer call on 3rd and 8 in the first quarter: View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFWmAVwzYxc


I totally get why the umpire threw the flag here. From behind, it looks like Will Anderson Jr. clobbers Mahomes in the head or neck. On replay though, it's pretty clear that didn't happen, but they simply called the penalty, Chiefs move on to 1st down near midfield, then they hit Kelse to get into FG range, and eventually take the lead.
 

Oil Can Dan

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Ah, gotcha. Not to defend the league or the refs but it's asking a lot for Replay Assist to overturn what is a bit of a judgement call. I do believe they both want what we all want - errors to be fixed quickly and efficiently but it's more complicated than perhaps it should be.
 

Garshaparra

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Ah, gotcha. Not to defend the league or the refs but it's asking a lot for Replay Assist to overturn what is a bit of a judgement call. I do believe they both want what we all want - errors to be fixed quickly and efficiently but it's more complicated than perhaps it should be.
Replay Assist had the angles that made it clear that Mahomes reacted violently to being swung at by jolting his head backwards. I don't think he was flopping here - god knows I would leap away violently from Will Anderson's swinging arms in my grill, but this is literally why they updated the guidance, making a more educated judgement.
 

8slim

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I can’t believe I’m going to defend the NFL, but some limited things have changed in positive ways too. I think Pass Interference right now is the best it’s been in 20 years since the Patriots dismantled the Manning Colts. They are calling it more fairly now, on both sides, than anytime I can remember. There was the one shit call this weekend that was a joke, but that seems like it’s the exception. There’s so many more non-calls than in a long time and it’s a better game for it.

Also the flop by Mahomes yesterday would absolutely been called a couple years ago as unnecessary roughness. They generally are better about “hits to the head” when a defender’s hand grazes a QB’s helmet, even though the Roughing yesterday was BS.

The NFL’s also made a ton of shitty decisions and changes as well that vastly overshadow the couple good things they’ve done.

I don’t have faith in the NFL to actually fix the entire issue with QB’s running, but a few tweaks could make it not be ridiculous like it is right now. As a Pats fan, with what is going to be a top 5 running QB in the league, i still hate this shit that’s going on now. You want to run around, you should be any other player.
I've been a broken record about this here, but I think the game is hellaciously over officiated, and that causes a lot of these problems. I'd allow more DPI, more OPI, more holding, more late-ish hits, more of everything. Set the threshold for most judgement calls at "egregious".
 

snowmanny

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I've been a broken record about this here, but I think the game is hellaciously over officiated, and that causes a lot of these problems. I'd allow more DPI, more OPI, more holding, more late-ish hits, more of everything. Set the threshold for most judgement calls at "egregious".
That DPI on Baltimore last night at the end of the half was ridiculous over-officiating. The Bills player pushed him to the ground. Hand-fighting, both players looking at the ball. Technically Ravens player is back-pedaling in the same path as the WR, so I presume it was called as illegal impediment or something, but a huge play in the game that was basically a bail-out on third down.
 

BaseballJones

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That DPI on Baltimore last night at the end of the half was ridiculous over-officiating. The Bills player pushed him to the ground. Hand-fighting, both players looking at the ball. Technically Ravens player is back-pedaling in the same path as the WR, so I presume it was called as illegal impediment or something, but a huge play in the game that was basically a bail-out on third down.
I think it's just as ridiculous as in basketball, when a defender is backpedaling in a straight line, and the guy with the ball barrels straight into him. The defender is moving, sure, but he's moving in what ought to be a legal straight line backward. But he will always be called for the foul on that play.

Defensive players have a right to move around the field (or court) too.
 

NortheasternPJ

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I think it's just as ridiculous as in basketball, when a defender is backpedaling in a straight line, and the guy with the ball barrels straight into him. The defender is moving, sure, but he's moving in what ought to be a legal straight line backward. But he will always be called for the foul on that play.

Defensive players have a right to move around the field (or court) too.
3-10 years ago I’d agree with you. I don’t see it commonly now. Yes. There’s the occasional bad call but they’re letting CBs play more now than the last 20 years. I have no issue at all with how the call PI now at all. Refs make mistakes but it’s more the exception than the rule now.
 

Van Everyman

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I loved how they finally made pass interference reviewable several years ago, and then there was some obvious directive that the referees would never overturn it under any circumstances. So like 40% of the way through the season teams just stopped challenging it. That was awesome.
 

Garshaparra

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I loved how they finally made pass interference reviewable several years ago, and then there was some obvious directive that the referees would never overturn it under any circumstances. So like 40% of the way through the season teams just stopped challenging it. That was awesome.
I'd looked that up following this game, as that terrible rollout was the impetus for the current Replay Assist ref. The refs clearly hated the idea of being challenged on it, and admitted very few mistakes. 24 of 101 were overturned in 2019.
 

j44thor

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Not to be a ref conspiracy theorist but this is pretty wild.
Over the last 4yrs which includes 11 KC playoff games their opponent has been flagged for more penalties 10 times with one draw and more penalty yards 10 times with KC being flagged for more yards 1 game.
No other team over that span has a delta greater than +2 and any team with at least 5 GP is no greater than +1.
Penalty discrepancy over that time period is 36 to 66.

During the regular season over that same stretch KC actually had more penalty yardage in 56% of games and more penalties in 37% of games.
https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/chiefs-referee-playoffs-penalties-2024-divisional-round/#
 

tims4wins

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Not to be a ref conspiracy theorist but this is pretty wild.
Over the last 4yrs which includes 11 KC playoff games their opponent has been flagged for more penalties 10 times with one draw and more penalty yards 10 times with KC being flagged for more yards 1 game.
No other team over that span has a delta greater than +2 and any team with at least 5 GP is no greater than +1.
Penalty discrepancy over that time period is 36 to 66.

During the regular season over that same stretch KC actually had more penalty yardage in 56% of games and more penalties in 37% of games.
https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/chiefs-referee-playoffs-penalties-2024-divisional-round/#
Some of the largest, most significant penalties have gone in favor of the Chiefs.

Many of those are judgment calls rather than cut and dry delay of game, offsides, and so on.

Some of these include:

  • 3 total Defensive Pass Interference or Defensive Holding called on the Chiefs.
  • 11 total Defensive Pass Interference or Defensive Holding called on their opponents.
  • 1 total Roughing the Passer (15 yards) called on the Chiefs.
  • 7 total Roughing the Passer (15 yards) called on their opponents.
  • 1 total Unnecessary Roughness (15 yards) called on the Chiefs.
  • 4 total Unnecessary Roughness (15 yards) called on their opponents.
  • 0 total Unsportsmanlike (15 yards) called on the Chiefs.
  • 1 total Unsportsmanlike (15 yards) called on their opponents.
Looking at EPA, the Chiefs have 18.84 Expected Points Added as a result of penalties in those 11 games.

8 of those 11 games were decided by 1 score or less.
 

streeter88

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This analysis supports a feeling that is gaining traction — the Chiefs are getting more calls than other teams

The standard rebuttal which you hear at least on PU is that the Patriots also benefitted from this treatment during the Brady years. It would be good to understand to what extent this is true, and whether other teams have gotten this treatment when they went on multi year runs.
 

tims4wins

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It's ok guys, Mahomes doesn't think they get favorable treatment. Case closed.

"I don't feel that way,'' Mahomes said Wednesday as the Chiefs began preparations for Sunday's AFC Championship Game against the Buffalo Bills at Arrowhead Stadium. "At the end of the day, the referees are doing their best to call the game as fair and as proper as they possibly can. And all you can do is go out there and play the game that you love as hard as you can and live with the results
 

Justthetippett

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With all the chatter on this I think the refs are likely to swallow their whistles in KC-Buff this weekend. That will be deemed "fair", even if the no calls are just as egregious as the calls that are made. I'd be telling my guys to push the limits early and find out where the line is (not with hits to Mahomes, but on the other stuff, holding, press coverage, rub routes, etc.). Basically the Legion of Boom approach.