NFL: News and transactions

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
17,443
Maybe not huge news, but it's not nothing. King has been a core special teamer for a few years now. He's good at his job and losing him won't benefit New England, that's for sure. I think they can replace him for cheaper probably (his 2021 cap hit was $1.1m), so they could save a few bucks I guess.
 

Ferm Sheller

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2007
15,043
Maybe not huge news, but it's not nothing. King has been a core special teamer for a few years now. He's good at his job and losing him won't benefit New England, that's for sure. I think they can replace him for cheaper probably (his 2021 cap hit was $1.1m), so they could save a few bucks I guess.
Right, I didn't mean to imply that it's completely insignificant. He missed two full seasons before bouncing back and having a solid year last year.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
17,443
Right, I didn't mean to imply that it's completely insignificant. He missed two full seasons before bouncing back and having a solid year last year.
No definitely. You brought it up for a reason, because you knew it wasn't unimportant. I appreciate you posting that, because I hadn't seen it anywhere else. Not a "nothing" loss for NE.
 

Garshaparra

lurker
Feb 27, 2008
270
McCarver's Mushy Mouth
Bolden and King were both on kickoff coverage, and IIRC, that seemed to be a glaring weakness for the Pats last year. Those memories appear to be borne out in these ST rankings:

https://www.lineups.com/nfl-team-rankings/special-teams

...with the Pats ranked 4th overall, and a top 3 of BUF/BAL/SEA. The Pats' stellar FG delivery clearly moved them up the rankings. Interestingly, in each case of that top 4, there are glaring deficiencies on each team. For the Pats, it was kick returns, giving shorter fields than most. If anything, I'm hopeful new blood with fresh legs will give those KO teams some improved results.
 

Jungleland

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 2, 2009
1,790
Need to see the guarantees, of course, but I hope to feel better about whatever happens with Mac in 4 years than I would if I were a Raiders fan today. That's the Cousins/Tannehill zone for a QB I really don't think is better (and the stats don't bear out being better) than at least the former.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
5,046
Imaginationland
I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around the going rate for decent QBs on non-rookie deals. There are probably 10 QBs I'd rather have over the next 4 years than Carr:

-Rodgers
-Mahomes
-Burrow
-Prescott
-Wilson
-Stafford
-Murray
-Herbert
-Jackson
-Allen

Not to mention Brady (who will definitely be better for the next year at least) and likely at least one of last year's rookie class (who aren't better than Carr yet, but could be in 1-2 years). This seems like a lot to pay for an above average (but probably not top 10) QB who won't be getting any better and hasn't made a pro bowl in 5 years, but what can you do. Any team hoping to win a super bowl probably has to have a QB at least as good as Carr, when you have that guy you can't let him go.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
24,008
Bolden and King were both on kickoff coverage, and IIRC, that seemed to be a glaring weakness for the Pats last year. Those memories appear to be borne out in these ST rankings:

https://www.lineups.com/nfl-team-rankings/special-teams

...with the Pats ranked 4th overall, and a top 3 of BUF/BAL/SEA. The Pats' stellar FG delivery clearly moved them up the rankings. Interestingly, in each case of that top 4, there are glaring deficiencies on each team. For the Pats, it was kick returns, giving shorter fields than most. If anything, I'm hopeful new blood with fresh legs will give those KO teams some improved results.
Could be that King, coming off 2 years of injuries, and Bolden, playing more RB than he had in years dropped of just enough.
I had thought Slater was headed that way, but to my eyes anyway, he bounced back.
 
Last edited:

bosockboy

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
16,571
St. Louis, MO
I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around the going rate for decent QBs on non-rookie deals. There are probably 10 QBs I'd rather have over the next 4 years than Carr:

-Rodgers
-Mahomes
-Burrow
-Prescott
-Wilson
-Stafford
-Murray
-Herbert
-Jackson
-Allen

Not to mention Brady (who will definitely be better for the next year at least) and likely at least one of last year's rookie class (who aren't better than Carr yet, but could be in 1-2 years). This seems like a lot to pay for an above average (but probably not top 10) QB who won't be getting any better and hasn't made a pro bowl in 5 years, but what can you do. Any team hoping to win a super bowl probably has to have a QB at least as good as Carr, when you have that guy you can't let him go.
I’d say with the addition of Adams he can get quite a bit better.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
5,046
Imaginationland
I’d say with the addition of Adams he can get quite a bit better.
His stats may improve, but the Raiders haven't exactly been barren at the skill positions the last few years (Waller/Renfroe/Jacobs is a really solid group, plus he's had Aghalor, Jordy Nelson, Amari Cooper and a few others). Which guys from that group I mentioned is Carr definitely (or even arguably) better than? Completely ignoring salary, would any of those teams trade their QB for Carr?

I'm a Carr fan (relative to the general public, I think) but this is a lot of money for a guy who's only making the pro bowl if lots of guys opt out.
 

Old Fart Tree

the maven of meat
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 10, 2001
11,580
The Yay Area
I'm a Carr fan (relative to the general public, I think) but this is a lot of money for a guy who's only making the pro bowl if lots of guys opt out.
That's where I'm at; I think he's better than people give him credit for, but DAMN is that a lot of money.
 

bosockboy

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
16,571
St. Louis, MO
His stats may improve, but the Raiders haven't exactly been barren at the skill positions the last few years (Waller/Renfroe/Jacobs is a really solid group, plus he's had Aghalor, Jordy Nelson, Amari Cooper and a few others). Which guys from that group I mentioned is Carr definitely (or even arguably) better than? Completely ignoring salary, would any of those teams trade their QB for Carr?

I'm a Carr fan (relative to the general public, I think) but this is a lot of money for a guy who's only making the pro bowl if lots of guys opt out.
He’s in the 10-12 range. It’s just the market now. And I’d absolutely take him over Jackson.
 

kenneycb

Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play
SoSH Member
Dec 2, 2006
14,889
Tuukka's refugee camp
This happens with every QB contract. Then the cap goes up and it's fine in a couple years. Right now he's the 5th highest paid QB but that's more a function of timing than anything else.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
5,046
Imaginationland
He’s in the 10-12 range. It’s just the market now. And I’d absolutely take him over Jackson.
Jackson is a 25 year old former MVP with a 37-12 record as a starter. Carr is six years older and on his best day is a borderline top 10 QB. There are good reasons to keep Jackson off a list of the very best QBs in the league, but no good reason not to have him above Carr, except for maybe durability (and the six year age difference completely cancels that out).
 

rodderick

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
9,341
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
That's not a lot of money for Carr, it's what guys in his range of QB play will get and he's hard to upgrade considering the players who are unquestionably better won't ever hit the market. The Raiders have a good roster, a new coach and talent at offensive skill positions, it's a no brainer to extend Carr. Yeah, it'd be a lot better to have Josh Allen, Joe Burrow or Patrick Mahomes, but you play the hand you're dealt.
 

bosockboy

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
16,571
St. Louis, MO
Jackson is a 25 year old former MVP with a 37-12 record as a starter. Carr is six years older and on his best day is a borderline top 10 QB. There are good reasons to keep Jackson off a list of the very best QBs in the league, but no good reason not to have him above Carr, except for maybe durability (and the six year age difference completely cancels that out).
Not saying I’m correct just an opinion, but Jackson is in possibly the most run-heavy offense of the last 25 years. In my opinion you can’t win a championship in today’s NFL with that offense. And Baltimore has collapsed the last 3-4 years so the results seem to bear that out.
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
54,271
New York City
This deal is fine. Carr is an excellent QB. That deal is the going rate, it's not a long term one, and the cap keeps going up. This was great for Carr and the Raiders.
 

Shelterdog

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 19, 2002
13,884
New York City
Need to see the guarantees, of course, but I hope to feel better about whatever happens with Mac in 4 years than I would if I were a Raiders fan today. That's the Cousins/Tannehill zone for a QB I really don't think is better (and the stats don't bear out being better) than at least the former.
You often here the argument that teams shouldn't re-sign average QBs to a big deal, but is it easier to win with Carr at 40 million or a combination of something like marcus Mariotta Blaine Gabbert and a first round pick (Desmond Ridder?) and 32 million? I'm in Carr camp even if he's not Allen/Mahomes.
 
Aug 9, 2015
389
This deal is fine. Carr is an excellent QB. That deal is the going rate, it's not a long term one, and the cap keeps going up. This was great for Carr and the Raiders.
Carr = Cousins for me, and this deal reflects that more or less. He’ll keep things exciting and might get you in the playoffs, but he’s unlikely to carry any team on a deep run. For most teams that’s enough to stay afloat and keep eyes on TVs and butts in seats.
 

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
Staff member
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2005
8,439
KPWT
Breer's got the real Carr contract numbers. He gave the team a discount, and though there is a no trade clause, the team could walk away next offseason. Though the vesting date is 3 days after the Super Bowl, weeks before the combine or the FA tampering period, so if they were to move on, they would be doing it without a known replacement. The deal is also guaranteed for injury through the first three years. Essentially the only scenario where they would have Carr for less than two seasons is if they had one of the top two picks in the draft next year. Or, I guess they could offer Brady a better under the table ownership stake deal than the Phins just tried.


This is much like the Adams contract. Zeigler is willing to let the agent get a big headline, but once the actual numbers come out the deal is quite team friendly. Carr & Adams for the next three years sounds real nice.



View: https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1514322976858116101

View: https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1514323175764635657

View: https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1514331370864234501



More on Derek Carr's 3-year, $121.5 million extension ... • He gets $25M in '22, $33M in '23, $42M in '24 (total = $100M). • The $33M for '23 and $7.5M of his '24 money (total of $40.5M) becomes fully guaranteed 3 days after next year's Super Bowl. • He gets $7.5M to sign.

The real turning point in talks between the Raiders and Derek Carr: The Davante Adams trade. Josh McDaniels and Dave Ziegler had been selling Carr and his camp on the idea of doing a Tom Brady type deal, so they could build around him. Landing Adams led Carr to buy in on that.

A couple other things here ... • The no-trade clause was key (allowing Carr to dictate his next location, if he's eventually traded). • His full injury guarantee is $65.5M. • $5.2 million raise for this year. • If he's cut after '23, it's a 1-year, $45.7M extension.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
52,516
QB contracts come down to one thing at this point - can you get to and win the SB with this dude? I think Carr throwing to Waller and Adams and Renfrow with their backfield can definitely go all the way. So, good contract.
 

EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
Staff member
Dope
Apr 9, 2007
15,180
Washington
Those contract details make sense. The ESPN article quoted Carr as saying this deal would help the Raiders keep some other guys. Sounds like he wasn't BSing.

I'm happy. I like Carr. He isn't elite, but he can be pretty damn good and I don't think another pretty damn good QB is walking through the door for this team anytime soon.

Now please compensate for Carr's lack of mobility and find a little more help for the line. The weapons are great. A little more security would be wonderful.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
24,008
QB contracts come down to one thing at this point - can you get to and win the SB with this dude? I think Carr throwing to Waller and Adams and Renfrow with their backfield can definitely go all the way. So, good contract.
Right. And since the Cousins comp came up, I dont think Cousins could win a SB if he had prime Don Hutson, Jerry Rice, Gronk, Bronco Nagurski and OJ playing offense with him.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
26,587
I think if Kirk Cousins was QB of the Rams or the 49ers for the past 5 years, there's a good chance he'd have a ring.
yeah, way worse QBs have been in the SB, and some have won. Since 2012, we've had Eli Manning win, Peyton Manning's mouldering corpse won (over Cam Newton), Joe Flacco won (over Kaep), and Nick Foles won. I'd say Cousins is probably better than all of those.
 

Ralphwiggum

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2012
8,711
Needham, MA
I’d rather have Cousins than Foles but Foles was pretty great in the NFC Title Game and Super Bowl the year they won.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
26,587
I’d rather have Cousins than Foles but Foles was pretty great in the NFC Title Game and Super Bowl the year they won.
I mean that's kind of the point. Foles is a much worse QB than Cousins and they each have long careers full of proof, but he had a 2 game hot streak and won the title, Flacco is similar.
 

Ralphwiggum

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2012
8,711
Needham, MA
I mean that's kind of the point. Foles is a much worse QB than Cousins and they each have long careers full of proof, but he had a 2 game hot streak and won the title, Flacco is similar.
Agreed I just wouldn’t group Foles with Peyton’s Bronco victory. That Bronco team won in spite of Manning’s dreadful post-season performance due to their defense getting to another level. Foles out-dueled Brady in Brady’s best SB performance statistically.
 

rodderick

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
9,341
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
Agreed I just wouldn’t group Foles with Peyton’s Bronco victory. That Bronco team won in spite of Manning’s dreadful post-season performance due to their defense getting to another level. Foles out-dueled Brady in Brady’s best SB performance statistically.
Both Flacco and Foles played at super-human, peak all time great QB levels in their Super Bowl runs. I'll argue it's foolish to count on your okay QB suddenly going Super Saiyan when the chips are down, though. I think a guy like Carr or Cousins could win a Super Bowl just by playing very well and not necessarily doing stuff they've never done before, provided they have enough help around them. Can't say that for a good number of QBs in this league.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
22,470
Newton
Both Flacco and Foles played at super-human, peak all time great QB levels in their Super Bowl runs. I'll argue it's foolish to count on your okay QB suddenly going Super Saiyan when the chips are down, though. I think a guy like Carr or Cousins could win a Super Bowl just by playing very well and not necessarily doing stuff they've never done before, provided they have enough help around them. Can't say that for a good number of QBs in this league.
If you want to have a little fun, look up Blake Bortles’ Wikipedia page and look at the wild 2017-18 he had. In short: dude went from stinking, to still kind of stinking while his team got better, to being amazing for like 4 games while his team played well and getting an extension, to being utterly shit and getting benched in, like, a 12-game span over two seasons.
 

Jungleland

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 2, 2009
1,790
Agree that Cousins is good enough to make/win a Super Bowl. I perused the last few years of his stats this morning to make sure I’m not crazy and in yards, yards per attempt, td/int, and passer rating he’s basically varied from top quarter of the league to top half while with the Vikes. Statistically, he is easily in the range of QBs that should be able to make a conference championship without it being a miracle.

The fun is in the cap hit - seems we generally agree that while good at quarterbacking, Cousins makes too much money for Minnesota to be a consistent contender. SMU’s post from a week or two ago does a phenomenal job of illustrating why that’s the case. Imo Carr is in that tier, which is why it’s probably the right move for Oakland, but a move I have hesitation calling a slam dunk. More of a discussion topic for the salary cap thread, but I do wonder at what level of qb play you gladly accept the reality of committing that much cap space - top 2? Top 5?
 

Petagine in a Bottle

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2021
4,024
Seems pretty bad if the lawyer is already basically saying he was involved in, or at the scene of the crime, but just didn’t pull the trigger. Doesn’t feel like this one is going to end well for him.
 

redsoxedmunds24

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 11, 2006
840
NH
There’s more than enough known for him to already be on the commissioners list for the time being. He could have come forward on his own anytime in the past month. Instead it’s only when the police ID him was someone in the car
 
Last edited:

sezwho

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
870
Isle of Plum
There’s more than enough known for him to already be on the commissioners list for the time being. He could have come forward on his own anytime in the past month. Instead it’s only when the police ID him was someone in the car
Stuff happens. If I had to come forward every time someone murdered someone in a car I happened to also be in, I’d have no free time at all.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
26,587
What doesn't he like about how he's used, I wonder. Targeted 121 times in the passing game (7.6 per game). 59 rushing attempts (~ 4 per game). They use him all over the field and have found incredibly creative ways to get him the ball. What's not to like about it, even from his perspective?
being a defacto RB for a big chunk of snaps probably... you take a lot more hits that way and it's a career shortening move likely.

Though also... take anything Rappaport says with a grain of salt, much like Schefter's "oh 49ers want to sign him he won't sign" stuff earlier in the week a lot of that is spinning for the team. I would bet money that they haven't rolled out an official Tyreek Hill level offer to him and been rejected.
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
54,271
New York City
What doesn't he like about how he's used, I wonder. Targeted 121 times in the passing game (7.6 per game). 59 rushing attempts (~ 4 per game). They use him all over the field and have found incredibly creative ways to get him the ball. What's not to like about it, even from his perspective?
My only guess is that he was overused? Because he certainly wasn't under used.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
17,443
being a defacto RB for a big chunk of snaps probably... you take a lot more hits that way and it's a career shortening move likely.
My only guess is that he was overused? Because he certainly wasn't under used.
Yeah, you guys probably have it right. At first I was like, dude, they do all kinds of things to get you the ball - you're the focal point of their entire offense. It didn't occur to me that that might actually be the problem.
 

JCizzle

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 11, 2006
16,853
I love Deebo as a player and to his credit he was impossible to tackle even prior to this year's stint as a pseudo RB. However, tying up big money in similar guys like Deebo and Kittle isn't a great long-term plan in my opinion. I just don't see how you stay consistently healthy with that type of beating. If the Niners can get a great return for him, it would hopefully recoup most of the Lance trade and potentially work out for both parties.

Ultimately I do think it's about money though - the same agent represents Deebo and AJ Brown and they're both following similar roadmaps from what I can tell.