NFL Coaching Changes: Chips a'Hoy
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Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter 25m25 minutes ago
Cleveland Browns have requested and received permission to interview Patriots' defensive coordinator Matt Patricia, per a league source.
Cleveland Browns have requested and received permission to interview Patriots' defensive coordinator Matt Patricia, per a league source.
Wow. The mind reels. From AFCCG whiny losers to projected SB winners to not-in-the-playoffs in the worst division in football...
SMH
So is this what Joe Thomas meant by Mangini Part 2? Do we think that means Mangini went into Cleveland with lots of bluster about being part of a dynasty or does he just think New England's coordinators get over-rated? (i guess these things arent mutually exclusive)
If he going to be the HC, Patricia doesn't require any compensation, regardless of contract status.
If we don't tell the Browns this, we can probably convince them to make that deal...
I suspect it's option 3--they got a not particularly successful coach cheap. Mangini had a year left on his Jets contract so the Browns were able to pay him well below market value (the Jets get a set-off for his Cleveland salary but Mangini gets to fuck the Jets if he just accepts a low salary, so while it's unknown that's probably what he did).
If you're Thomas and you know the team is hiring a just fired mediocrity (who also has a bad rep in the league for being a douche) and you think they did it in part to save money, well, you might be pissed too.
Cleveland is still paying the previous coaching staff, you know, the one before Pettine. If they are looking to do it cheaply, they are doing it so very, very wrong.
Coughlin's goodbye press conference - mentioned that the Giants and Browns were the only teams he could get on B&W rabbit ears TV growing up in a tiny town in NY.
Wonder if he could end up in Cleveland? He is one of the few guys who would have the stature to tell that jackass ownership group that he gets 100% control.
Coughlin total class here, btw. He gets some shit, deservedly, but he is a class act.
Wonder if he could end up in Cleveland? He is one of the few guys who would have the stature to tell that jackass ownership group that he gets 100% control.
Coughlin total class here, btw. He gets some shit, deservedly, but he is a class act.
Holy hell, not every single thread has to bring up this persecution complex. The Pats are good, ergo its staff will be in demand. I don't think most of the NFL, at least the people making these decisions, cares about this stuff.
Edit: Persuction, not inferiority.
Edit: Persuction, not inferiority.
I didn't know where else to put this
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal 1m1 minute ago
Paul DePodesta is leaving #Mets to become executive VP of Cleveland Browns, per @joelsherman1.
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal 1m1 minute ago
Paul DePodesta is leaving #Mets to become executive VP of Cleveland Browns, per @joelsherman1.
I've wanted to hate Coughlin for nearly 8 years now, but like Mo Rivera, I just can't. Likewise for Pete Carroll, even despite '97-99... they both say the right things, call BS like they see it, and aren't a douchebag to anyone.
In terms of VORC, he may be the #2 HC in the league, too, if he's got enough left in the tank to start again somewhere. I'd put him behind Carroll, Arians and maybe Payton too, but that still makes him top-5. I'm not smart enough to separate GM/roster influence from HC/tactics/game prep influence, and maybe you can ding Coughlin for the late come-from-ahead losses he suffered this year, but the totality of his body of work seems very strong.
Let's keep this thread about coaching changes and not about the persecution of the home town team. I moved a few posts to the proper thread for that discussion.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Edit: Sorry, the "keep it about coaching changes" note was posted while I was composing this post. I'll look for a better place to put it.
Let me preface this by saying that I don't dislike Coughlin. I've always had a soft spot for the guy since back in the BC days when I was a kid. Same reason I flirted with the idea of a Glen Foley Jets jersey (don't worry, I couldn't do it).
He seems like a great guy and everyone has great things to say about him. But I just never understood why everyone seemed to just accept that he was an elite coach or even, as some have said, a Hall of Famer. That's insane to me.
You can't ignore the two Super Bowl wins, obviously. They're on the record, they happened. But they still strike me as a "lightning struck twice" fluke. Those teams were 9-7 and 10-6 and don't even make the playoffs a lot of years.
If that were part of some sustained string of excellence, I might consider it less fluky. But that was literally all he did in New York. He was there for ten other seasons and they won exactly ZERO playoff games. Not one. 2 SB championships, 3 one-and-dones, and 7 seasons without playoffs. His average record with the NYG was 8.5-7.5. Barely over .500.
He had a nice run in Jacksonville for a few years, which is doubly impressive considering they were an expansion team. But again, his average JAX record was also 8.5-7.5. Barely over .500.
If you look at the top 20 winningest NFL coaches, and sort by winning percentage, he's 19th between Dan Reeves and Jeff Fisher. I can't help but think two hot months completely defined this guy's career instead of the entire body of work which, while certainly good, doesn't look all that different from guys like Brian Billick (x 2).
Let me preface this by saying that I don't dislike Coughlin. I've always had a soft spot for the guy since back in the BC days when I was a kid. Same reason I flirted with the idea of a Glen Foley Jets jersey (don't worry, I couldn't do it).
He seems like a great guy and everyone has great things to say about him. But I just never understood why everyone seemed to just accept that he was an elite coach or even, as some have said, a Hall of Famer. That's insane to me.
You can't ignore the two Super Bowl wins, obviously. They're on the record, they happened. But they still strike me as a "lightning struck twice" fluke. Those teams were 9-7 and 10-6 and don't even make the playoffs a lot of years.
If that were part of some sustained string of excellence, I might consider it less fluky. But that was literally all he did in New York. He was there for ten other seasons and they won exactly ZERO playoff games. Not one. 2 SB championships, 3 one-and-dones, and 7 seasons without playoffs. His average record with the NYG was 8.5-7.5. Barely over .500.
He had a nice run in Jacksonville for a few years, which is doubly impressive considering they were an expansion team. But again, his average JAX record was also 8.5-7.5. Barely over .500.
If you look at the top 20 winningest NFL coaches, and sort by winning percentage, he's 19th between Dan Reeves and Jeff Fisher. I can't help but think two hot months completely defined this guy's career instead of the entire body of work which, while certainly good, doesn't look all that different from guys like Brian Billick (x 2).
He may not be elite, or HOF, but this is far from the craziest idea I have seen. Coughlin is exactly the kind of guy who could sand blast 16 years of accumulated misery, foolishness and unprofessional behavior. The owner would have to step back. He'd have to pair Coughlin with a strong GM and coaching staff. On that staff, there should be one or more plausible successors because the guy is 69. And Coughlin would have to have the energy for it. But the guy represents substance and values. Holmgren, on the other hand, took a flier for the money and by that point in his career was largely NFLN/ESPN hype.
NYC media really grabbed hold of Mara's comments RE personnel issues, which essentially threw the GM Reese under the bus, and then pointing out that Mara did not show Reese the door right behind Tom.
Browns because they were perennial champions back then (Paul Brown, Otto Graham, Lou Groza, Marion Motley, Dante Lavelli, etc.) and Giants because of NY state.
I'm with you here. In addition - he's always talked about as a disciplinarian, but his teams always seem to be undisciplined and sloppy. He's spent a good chunk of his career working with a fantastic drafting GM in Reese - I've always kind of felt like his teams have underperformed their talent levels - and the two superbowl years were basically where he got them to play up to their talent levels.
They've had way to much talent over the years for all the 4 and 5 game losing streaks.
Winning three straight road playoff games then beating the 18-0 juggernauts wasn't easy either. And then needing to beat Dallas in week 17 just to make the playoffs then winning two of three on the road to SB 46 was almost equally impressive.
He was the anti-Andy Reid. Didn't make much noise in the playoffs very often, but when he went he went big.
He was the anti-Andy Reid. Didn't make much noise in the playoffs very often, but when he went he went big.
York says that Tomsula will get all remaining money on his 4-year contract whether he coaches elsewhere or not. So assuming he gets another coaching gig beginning next year, Tomsula will be paid $14 million for his efforts this year (and silence thereafter).
If Plax didn't shoot himself in 2008 I think the Giants would have had a legit chance at back to back. They were playing magnificent football at the time.
I agree. They were 10-1 at the time, with the one loss being a 21 point blowout at Cleveland (who would go 4-12 that season) of all places. Plax was drawing double coverages and Eli had the offense humming. Then he fucking shoots himself in a nightclub and the rest of the season was a shit sandwich.
Perused the NY tabloids, and it's as if it never happened, and one piece in the Post insists it was not a snub. And, of course, they all are reporting this as a "resignation".
Now I think this was the decent way to approach the matter, in part because those same papers circled vigilantly when Tom's blood was in the water those many years. And I like Tom, and there is nothing to be gained.
But as Francesa would snap if it were anyone else:
"c'mon! Whose kiddin' who?"
Tom may have resigned in a technical sense, but he was pushed. And he was not happy about it.
This is more about protecting Tom. This is about protecting a @classy@ organization. One that does everything right all the time, and that always tells you about it.
There are the Yankees, the Giants and IBM, and then there is everyone else.
Even with 4 rings rather than 2, and 15 years rather than 12, and counting, the knives would be out in Boston.
The NY media can be notoriously tough, or not, depending on its mood.
It doesn't say 'good coaching' to me when losing a single WR completely derails your whole season. That screams either bad coaching, bad roster design, or an inability to gameplan. And Coughlin's teams have a tendency to just come off the rails like that.
I just took a look at the 2008 Giants, and they were absurdly healthy. Of the 22 players designated starters, Plaxico is the only one to play less than 13 games (at 9). Brandon Jacobs (13) is the only other I could find who played less than 15. Most were listed as starters for 14+ games, and all the sort of players that don't rotate started 16 games. Contrast that to this years Patriots.
Then again, look at what the loss of Edelman arguably did to the Pats offense. Sure, there are other factors at play in NE, and other key injuries. But many of the folks who are optimistic about the Pats' chances in the playoffs are pinning their hopes on the ripple effect of Edelman's return, at least in part.
And if it's bad coaching OR bad roster design, then it might not be both. Coughlin was not the GM.
Let me be clear, I am not a huge fan of Coughlin or his advocate. I still crack up whenever I see Tom's sideline impersonation of him shaking his head. But this Pats season has opened my eyes to the possibility that the loss of a super talented WR can really screw up an offense. Even with the very best HC in football.
Apples and oranges (or cinderblocks). The Patriots didn't lose Edelman, they lost some combination of Edelman, Lewis, Amendola, Gronk, Blount, Solder, Vollmer, and several major key pieces of their defense. If you took away Edelman and gave them everyone else back, they'd be easy consensus favorites to win the Super Bowl.
People are pinning hopes on Edelman because so much is missing that they hope that one piece is enough to keep the ship afloat, not because he got knocked out and then everything else fell apart because of it.
I'm not going to get into the apples business but I will say that I don't think it's as dissimilar as you are suggesting.
People who put a lot on Jules' return are thinking, in part, that his quick release off the line and ability to get open -- both at all and very quickly -- will compensate for a lot of what ails the Pats' offensive line and offense, in general. At least, I've heard and read that.
Now yeah, as we both noted, there are a lot of other causes/injuries. Getting Vollmer back on Jan 16 should help. So should more recovery time for Danny, Gronk and even LaFell.
But I don't think it's accurate to say that those casting their eyes on Edelman are just a hoping and a dreaming. As a friend e-mailed today, Julian might have showed that he was the MVP (other than Tom) by not playing.
Plus, the way Plexiglass got hurt (an insane story over a holiday weekend) totally blew up the Giants for a variety of reasons, including the loss of the player on the field.
Amendola did a decent enough impression for them to get by. The next 6 games they scored 27 points per game. It wasn't until Danny went down the second time that the options became too few. Edelman's presence was missed and his absence was felt, but it wasn't until a lot of other things had happened that the offense derailed.
Edelman might be the difference between a playoff team and a Super Bowl team, but his absence wouldn't and didn't make the team collapse.
Gotta figure that Payton news will speed up a few announcements. Should have a few hires before the weekend I assume.
Waiting for someone to post this.
It's a wonderfully NY-centric view of the world. As noted above, Yankees, Giants, IBM ... Then everyone else.
Did the season really go off the rails after that injury? Or, can you blame the injury for their less than stellar finish?
After starting 10-1 they finished the regular season 2-3. Two of the losses were by less than a TD to the playoff bound Eagles and NFC North champion Vikings, the latter on the road. They also lost on the road to the eventual 9-7 Cowboys.
Then they lost to a 9-6-1 Eagles team in the playoffs. Those Eagles had a +127 point differential to the Giants' +133. Hard to point exclusively to one player's injury for this finish which wasn't really "falling off a cliff."