NFL Announces Golden Super Bowl Team

[scotian1]

Should we be surprised that the team representing the best at their position in the history of the Super Bowl omits both Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. A very strong case could be made for Brady and even stronger one for BB who has been in 8 Super Bowls winning 6 if you include the 2 with the Giants. Plus Bills wins were done in the salary cap era with the Pats. Ex-Patriot Adam Vinatieri was the only player with Patriot history to make the squad either on offense or defense.
Joe Montana was chosen as the QB, while Chuck Noll got the coaches nod.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/28/nfl-announces-super-bowl-golden-team/

 

[Bergs]

The thing I don't get is why they wouldn't have an AFC and NFC team...wouldn't that be the obvious thing to do given it's the FUCKING SUPERBOWL? I mean...

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Don't care.

 

[Ale Xander]

No non-kicker active players, FWIW.

Maybe he's retiring?

 

[johnmd20]

I care. This is so stupid. No AFC, NFC, which really does make sense unless the goal was literally to avoid picking Brady.

 

[GeorgeCostanza]

4-0 > 4-2 is my guess at the rationale for Joe over Tom

Usually 6 > 4 though, at least in the maths

 

[scotian1]

I really don't understand Noll over BB. Four Super Bowls as Head Coach and two as Defensive Co-ordinator is pretty darn good.

 

[johnmd20]

I really don't understand Noll over BB. Four Super Bowls as Head Coach and two as Defensive Co-ordinator is pretty darn good.

And Noll presided over a pre salary cap team that was generally on steroids, BEFORE most teams started taking everything they could. It's typical of the petty NFL to not put BB or Brady on the all super bowl team. It's comical.

 

[moondog80]

4-0 > 4-2 is my guess at the rationale for Joe over Tom

Usually 6 > 4 though, at least in the maths

Well, when looking at the best overall career, of course 4-2 is better than 4-0, because finishing second is undoubtedly better than finishing third or fourth or fifth. But if I'm simply looking at the best Super Bowl players, and pretending nothing else exists, maybe 4-0 does trump 4--2?

 

[coremiller]

4-0 > 4-2 is my guess at the rationale for Joe over Tom

Usually 6 > 4 though, at least in the maths

Unless you think more games played should be the sole criterion, there really isn't a good argument for Brady over Montana.

Montana: 83/122 for 1142 yards, 68.0% comp, 13.8 Y/C, 11 TDs, 0 INTs, 6 sacks for 30 yards, 127.8 rating, 10.41 ANY/A, plus 17 rushes for 105 yards (6.2 Y/A) and 2 TDs.
Brady: 164/247 for 1605 yards, 66.4% comp, 9.8 Y/C 13 TDs, 4 INTs, 12 sacks for 83 yards, 95.3 rating, 6.19 ANY/A, plus 6 rushes for 11 yards with 0 TDs.

Montana completed a higher percentage of his passes, for more yards per completion, with a better TD rate and fewer interceptions, while taking fewer sacks. He did it in a more difficult passing era. He was also a valuable runner.

 

[Bosoxen]

It's typical of the petty NFL to not put BB or Brady on the all super bowl team.

Lest anyone else wants to cry wolf about yet another league conspiracy:

which was voted on by the Pro Football Hall of Fame selectors.

 

[Senator Donut]

If by performance, the easy answer is Kurt Warner, who had the three best passing games in Super Bowl history by yardage.

 

[Vinho Tinto]

And Noll presided over a pre salary cap team that was generally on steroids.

The NFL, and the media that covers the sport, have never cared about PEDs. It's crazy that you could make a case that Vince McMahon is now more proactive about PEDs than the NFL is.

 

[BuellMiller]

If you did break it into AFC and NFC, Brady should get the nod at the AFC QB. Which other Patriots would be on the team? Deion Branch probably gets the second WR spot next to Swann, right? And maybe Ty Law at CB?

 

[tims4wins]

Vrabel would have to get strong consideration at OLB. Had the pressure on Warner on the pick 6, a strip sack against Carolina setting up the first TD, and scored a TD against the Eagles (among other things he did)

 

[trekfan55]

A case may be made for Joe Montana over Tom Brady, given the numbers (I am not at this point arguing the case, just saying that it is possible).

However, I don't think anyone could argue that any other coach but BB deserves to be on this list. No one.

Bill Bellichick made it to 6 Super Bowls (and only lost 2 on freaky plays/dropped passes) taking very different teams (the basic constant being Brady). You cannot make a similar case about anyone else. I would give a honorable mention to Joe Gibbs, who won 3 Super Bowls with 3 basically different teams and different QBs (one of them being Mark Rypien). BTW he made 2 SBs with Theisman, lost one.
I call absolute BS on Chuck Noll, who took a loaded team in the pre cap era (which never would have remained together otherwise) to 4 SBs and as soon as it started getting old, the Steelers lost all relevance for a while.

If by performance, the easy answer is Kurt Warner, who had the three best passing games in Super Bowl history by yardage.

Well, performance has to be part of the equation. They are ranking players that played in Super Bowls. It should have some NFC/AFC rankings, but also, there should be a more extensive list.

 

[tims4wins]

While Warner had incredible yardage, he threw pick sixes in BOTH of his Super Bowl losses - both of which his team lost by < a TD. He also threw a pick vs. the Pats that DIRECTLY led to another 3 points. So he literally gave away 10 points that game. He doesn't deserve to be anywhere near this list IMO.

 

[pappymojo]

I don't really care. It is interesting that a team that appeared in the super bowl seven times (including winning three in four years 2001, 2003, and 2004) only has one representative, but whatever.

Pro Football Hall of Fame Selection Committee

Spoiler

Arizona Kent Somers, Arizona Republic
Atlanta Darryl Ledbetter, Atlanta Journal - Constitution
Baltimore Scott Garceau, WMAR-TV
Buffalo Vic Carucci, Buffalo News
Carolina Darin Gantt, ProFootballTalk
Chicago Dan Pompei, Bleacher Report*
Cincinnati Geoff Hobson, Bengals.com
Cleveland Tony Grossi, ESPNCleveland.com/WKNR Radio
Dallas Rick Gosselin, Dallas Morning News*
Denver Jeff Legwold, ESPN/ESPN.com
Detroit Dave Birkett, Detroit Free Press
Green Bay Pete Dougherty, Green Bay Press-Gazette
Houston John McClain, Houston Chronicle*
Indianapolis Mike Chappell, RTV6 - ABC Affiliate Indianapolis
Jacksonville Sam Kouvaris, WJXT-TV
Kansas City Randy Covitz, Kansas City Star
Miami Armando Salguero, Miami Herald
Minnesota Mark Craig, The Minneapolis Star-Tribune
New England Ron Borges, Boston Herald*
New Orleans Jeff Duncan, Times-Picayune
New York (Giants) Bob Glauber, Newsday
New York (Jets) Gary Myers, New York Daily News
Oakland Frank Cooney, The Sports Xchange
Philadelphia Paul Domowitch, Philadelphia Daily News
Pittsburgh Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
St. Louis Bernie Miklasz, St. Louis Post-Dispatch*
San Diego Nick Canepa, San Diego Union Tribune
San Francisco Nancy Gay
Seattle Mike Sando, ESPN.com
Tampa Bay Ira Kaufman, Tampa Tribune
Tennessee David Climer, The Tennessean
Washington David Elfin, DavidElfinonSports.com
PFWA Mary Kay Cabot, The (Cleveland) Plain Dealer
At Large Howard Balzer, The Sports Xchange
At Large Jarrett Bell, USA Today
At Large John Clayton, ESPN
At Large Jason Cole, BleacherReport.com
At Large John Czarnecki, FOXSports.com*
At Large Clark Judge, Talk of Fame Network and Yahoo Sports Radio
At Large Peter King, Sports Illustrated
At Large Ira Miller, The Sports Xchange*
At Large Sal Paolantonio, ESPN
At Large Vito Stellino, Florida Times Union
At Large Jim Trotter, ESPN
At Large Charean Williams, Ft. Worth Star Telegram
At Large Barry Wilner, Associated Press

* Also serves on the Senior Selection Committee.

 

[trekfan55]

In contrast, our good friends at ESPN ranked the top 50 Super Bowl players of all time (not a by position ranking so plenty of QBs in the top 10.

Joe Montana was # 3 and Tom Brady is # 1 on that list.

 

[BuellMiller]

Vrabel would have to get strong consideration at OLB. Had the pressure on Warner on the pick 6, a strip sack against Carolina setting up the first TD, and scored a TD against the Eagles (among other things he did)

He scored in the Panthers game, too. Maybe he should be the AFC TE, too.

 

[johnmd20]

Aikman over Montana is aggressive.

 

[coremiller]

If by performance, the easy answer is Kurt Warner, who had the three best passing games in Super Bowl history by yardage.

Passing yards are also heavily influenced by game state and actually correlate slightly negatively with winning, because teams have to throw more when they are trailing. Warner racked up a lot of yards in part because he threw interceptions that put his team behind, which then required them to throw to catch up.

 

[tims4wins]

He scored in the Panthers game, too. Maybe he should be the AFC TE, too.

Right, can't believe I forgot that

Nice user name by the way

 

[pappymojo]

Vinatieri was pretty awesome.

http://www.patriots.com/news/2014/10/28/patriots-honor-three-time-super-bowl-champions-10th-anniversary-season

SUPER BOWL XXXVI
Final Score
New England Patriots 20, St. Louis Rams 17
Play of the Game
Adam Vinatieri’s game-winning 48-yard field goal as time expired.

SUPER BOWL XXXVII
Final Score
New England Patriots 32, Carolina Panthers 29
Play of the Game
Adam Vinatieri’s game-winning 41-yard field goal with four seconds remaining.

“Is there going to be a statue of him in downtown Boston? There ought to be.”
-Linebacker Ted Johnson on Vinatieri

 

[coremiller]

Aikman over Montana is aggressive.

More like idiotic.

 

[DJnVa]

But if I'm simply looking at the best Super Bowl players, and pretending nothing else exists, maybe 4-0 does trump 4-2?

No.

Getting there is an achievement. A QB that is 0-1 versus one that is 0-0 has at least taken his team there.

 

[Silverdude2167]

Unless you think more games played should be the sole criterion, there really isn't a good argument for Brady over Montana.

Montana: 83/122 for 1142 yards, 68.0% comp, 13.8 Y/C, 11 TDs, 0 INTs, 6 sacks for 30 yards, 127.8 rating, 10.41 ANY/A, plus 17 rushes for 105 yards (6.2 Y/A) and 2 TDs.
Brady: 164/247 for 1605 yards, 66.4% comp, 9.8 Y/C 13 TDs, 4 INTs, 12 sacks for 83 yards, 95.3 rating, 6.19 ANY/A, plus 6 rushes for 11 yards with 0 TDs.

Montana completed a higher percentage of his passes, for more yards per completion, with a better TD rate and fewer interceptions, while taking fewer sacks. He did it in a more difficult passing era. He was also a valuable runner.

It was a more difficult era for passing, but the AFC was terrible during his SB's. He put up good numbers against terrible teams with Jerry Rice. The real Superbowl during that era were in the NFC Championship game.

 

[trekfan55]

It was a more difficult era for passing, but the AFC was terrible during his SB's. He put up good numbers against terrible teams with Jerry Rice. The real Superbowl during that era were in the NFC Championship game.

Well, he beat a pretty good Bengals team in his first Super Bowl, faced the Marino led Dolphins (that year Marino's stats were outstanding), the 3rd Superbowl was also against a very good Bengals team and required one of the nest drives on Superbowl history to win it, and then he trashed the Broncos 55-10. Not really inferior teams all the time.

 

[bankshot1]

There should have been an AFC and NFC team.

But that probably would have just resulted in Bradshaw and a few more Steelers named to the team.

 

[coremiller]

It was a more difficult era for passing, but the AFC was terrible during his SB's. He put up good numbers against terrible teams with Jerry Rice. The real Superbowl during that era were in the NFC Championship game.

1) The AFC was weaker in the 80s, but I'd hardly characterize its champions as "terrible teams". Certainly none of them were worse than the 2011 Giants, who are probably the weakest champion of the Super Bowl era, or the 03 Panthers, who were distinctly mediocre (16th in DVOA, 18th in SRS). The 89 Broncos in particular were a very good team with an excellent defense (1st in points allowed, 3rd in yards allowed, 4th in DVOA).

2) Rice was drafted in 1985 and only played on two of Montana's four Super Bowl teams. The 81 and 84 teams had guys like Dwight Clark, Earl Cooper, Freddie Solomon, Russ Francis as the main receivers -- solid players but hardly all-timers. And while the 01-04 Patriots lacked receiver starpower, the 07-15 teams had guys like Moss, Welker, and Gronkowski.

 

[coremiller]

Also, FWIW, the conference imbalance was nearly as bad during the mid-2000s, peaking in 2004 when 10 of the league's top 11 teams by DVOA were in the AFC.

 

[troparra]

However, I don't think anyone could argue that any other coach but BB deserves to be on this list. No one.

Chuck Noll had these guys from the "Golden Team":
Franco Harris
Lynn Swann
Mike Webster
Joe Greene
Jack Ham
Jack Lambert
Mel Blount

BB only had only this guy:
Adam Vinatieri

Maybe Noll is being given credit for coaching those guys up (in addition to not losing those additional 2 SB's).

 

[Ed Hillel]

BB isn't there because he's a big meanie and Spygate.

Brady vs. Montana I mean whatever. Can't go wrong with either.

 

[kenneycb]

I forgot until I got in a wormhole of watching highlights but Vinatieri missed two FGs in the Panthers game, a 31 yard shank and one that was blocked.

 

[staz]

It's just so DAMN funny that we're the undisputed outcast bad boys now.

And I LOVE the Pro Bowl boycott.

 

[BuellMiller]

I forgot until I got in a wormhole of watching highlights but Vinatieri missed two FGs in the Panthers game, a 31 yard shank and one that was blocked.

I vaguely remember (but couldn't find it in a few minutes of using the google) that he was dealing with a bad back or some other minor injury. Also, at the time, I hated that they took the timeout before his last kick with 9 seconds on the clock instead of letting it get to 5. I was absolutely terrified that He Hate Me would return the kick for a TD to win the game. (I'm guessing that this was due the timing of the game, post Grady Little and pre fall of 2004, still expecting the worse in every sporting event).

 

[tims4wins]

Vinatieri also missed two FGs in the game vs. the Texans in the same building earlier in the season (I was at both games). Actually IIRC one was blocked and he missed one, just like in the Super Bowl. And yeah I hated the timeout with 9 seconds left, it made no sense (unless they still had a timeout left so that a bad snap they could fall on the ball, call timeout, and still kick a FG. Can't remember).

 

[PedroKsBambino]

My takeaway is that Noll would coach the Vegas favorite in the "golden game" and Belichick's team would win the game.

 

[AB in DC]

They should have called it the Super Bowl 40 Golden Team, since there's no one on the list from the last ten years.

 

[TrotWaddles]

I'm pretty much with the "don't care" crowd. Don't really care about the Hall of Fame either. ESPN and NFL Network have been banished. Football season ended on Sunday and my kids are marking the days until truck day at this point. Screw these contrived NFL bullshit gatherings.

 

[trekfan55]

Chuck Noll had these guys from the "Golden Team":
Franco Harris
Lynn Swann
Mike Webster
Joe Greene
Jack Ham
Jack Lambert
Mel Blount

BB only had only this guy:
Adam Vinatieri

Maybe Noll is being given credit for coaching those guys up (in addition to not losing those additional 2 SB's).

That is kind of my point.

Having that kind of team, and a very good QB to boot, and keeping that team together through no work of your own in a pre FA, pre salary cap era is not as remarkable as having to deal with a cap, free agents, and assembling a team and reassembling it again enough times to reach 6 Super Bowls.

 

[kenneycb]

Vinatieri also missed two FGs in the game vs. the Texans in the same building earlier in the season (I was at both games). Actually IIRC one was blocked and he missed one, just like in the Super Bowl. And yeah I hated the timeout with 9 seconds left, it made no sense (unless they still had a timeout left so that a bad snap they could fall on the ball, call timeout, and still kick a FG. Can't remember).

And an even funner fact, those four misses were the only misses he had all year. This game happens 10 years earlier and he shanks it followed by a fake kneel bomb to Muhammad.

Edit: Pretty sure they also almost lost to Tony Banks, which is mildly hilarious given that team helped produce the longest winning streak in NFL history (regular + playoffs).

 

[JohnnyK]

No.
Getting there is an achievement. A QB that is 0-1 versus one that is 0-0 has at least taken his team there.

Well not in this context. The team is about Super Bowl performances, not appearances and not "how did they get there". So arguing that Brady got there more often is pretty pointless.

 

[Norm Siebern]

Well not in this context. The team is about Super Bowl performances, not appearances and not "how did they get there". So arguing that Brady got there more often is pretty pointless.

Then why isn't Timmy Smith the RB, or Rod Martin at LB?

 

[scotian1]

Doesn't it say something about Bill's coaching that the Patriots have four Super Bowl wins and not one regular position player cracked this group of players.

 

[DJnVa]

Well not in this context. The team is about Super Bowl performances, not appearances and not "how did they get there". So arguing that Brady got there more often is pretty pointless.

In both of his Super Bowl losses Brady led the team on 4th quarter drives to give his teams a lead that only evaporated the last time the other team touched the ball, both with drives that included a ridiculous play that once long while. Those performances don't count against him in my eyes.

 

[Hendu for Kutch]

And an even funner fact, those four misses were the only misses he had all year. This game happens 10 years earlier and he shanks it followed by a fake kneel bomb to Muhammad.

Edit: Pretty sure they also almost lost to Tony Banks, which is mildly hilarious given that team helped produce the longest winning streak in NFL history (regular + playoffs).

Not only that, that game was the last time they trailed in a game until the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl. They played roughly a half-season of consecutive football without ever falling behind anyone at any point. It's one of the more ridiculous but overlooked factoids in their stretch of dominance.

 

[tims4wins]

That Houston game was a near miracle win. IIRC they converted a 4th and 10 down by 7 points late in the 4th, then another 4th and goal on the same drive on an incredible roll out pass to Dan Graham that was somewhat reminiscent of "the catch".

The Pats actually outgained Houston by 200+ yards that game but had some self inflicted errors like the missed and blocked FG. I think JJ Stokes and Dedric Ward started that game as Branch and Givens were hurt.

edit: entire game. BANANAS

 

[scotian1]

D&C this morning making a strong case for Ty Law over Sanders at the CB position.

 

[pappymojo]

The Patriots are not the only organization to be shorted on this team. No one from the Bears, Broncos, Rams or Redskins appears and LT is the only one from the Giants. For a team that represents 49 years of super bowls the selection committee definitely put an emphasis on the players that played a long time ago.