Next man up, err I mean Down: Craig

[In my lifetime]

So much for that glut of outfielders.
Victorino leaves tonight's game with hamstring tightness. No time frame given, nor comment on the grade of the strain yet, but it is hard to imagine anything less than at least 2 weeks and it potentially could be a lot longer.
Castillo is still on the DL with a ashoulder injury. I haven't heard any updates, but it is likely that he is at least 2 weeks away.

So Craig, the 5th outfielder is now a starter. He is likely to get significant time to literally prove his worth. Then when Castillo returns, Craig would have had plenty of opportunity to establish his value (or lack thereof) to the RS and to other teams.
Brock Holt is also likely to see time in the outfield especially if Craig doesn't regain his hitting stroke.
If Victorino is headed to the DL, JBJ will get the call at least until Castillo is ready.

 

[kieckeredinthehead]

Seems more likely a Nava-Craig platoon.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

I'd say it's a bit premature to think Victorino is DL bound. He's had these hamstring issues before. It could very well be tightness that given his history caused he and the team to be overly cautious last night, but not be serious enough to warrant more than a day or two off.

I'd guess at a Nava-Craig platoon in right should Victorino be headed to the DL. And while logic might be to bring up an outfielder to replace an outfielder, will they really want to bring up JBJ just to ride the bench? The regular playing time seems to be working for him in Pawtucket. I'm inclined to bring up Brentz in such a case, at least if the hope is to get Craig more time on the field.

 

[Todd Benzinger]

Shane is "day to day," so there will be no call-up at this point.
 
Farrell is sticking with his story that Shane is the starting RF.
 
Really too bad that Rusney is out, too. Although both Craig & JBJ have plenty of upside, and each deserves to get a shot, still, Rusney is the most exciting option.

 

[In my lifetime]

Shane is "day to day," so there will be no call-up at this point.
 
Farrell is sticking with his story that Shane is the starting RF.
 
Really too bad that Rusney is out, too. Although both Craig & JBJ have plenty of upside, and each deserves to get a shot, still, Rusney is the most exciting option.

In the linked story, Farrell also mentions that there is no timetable on Castillo's return yet. Not surprising he isn't ready, but that is too bad.

 

[nvalvo]

Bradley K rate: 16.4% in 61 AAA PA.

K rate stabilizes in about 100 PA, so we're not quite there yet. But I don't need to remind you all that this number was above 28 in MLB and above 26 in AAA last season.

 

[Rasputin]

So much for that glut of outfielders.
Victorino leaves tonight's game with hamstring tightness. No time frame given, nor comment on the grade of the strain yet, but it is hard to imagine anything less than at least 2 weeks and it potentially could be a lot longer.
Castillo is still on the DL with a ashoulder injury. I haven't heard any updates, but it is likely that he is at least 2 weeks away.

So Craig, the 5th outfielder is now a starter. He is likely to get significant time to literally prove his worth. Then when Castillo returns, Craig would have had plenty of opportunity to establish his value (or lack thereof) to the RS and to other teams.
Brock Holt is also likely to see time in the outfield especially if Craig doesn't regain his hitting stroke.
If Victorino is headed to the DL, JBJ will get the call at least until Castillo is ready.

 
It's not remotely hard to see Vic playing tomorrow. Sure, it could be a lot more than that, but not everything is immediately the worst case scenario.
 
I don't for a minute think JBJ is the guy who gets called up. The point of sending him down was to have him get regular playing time to get things back together. Calling him up now would defeat that purpose. For a short stint like this, I think we'd see Bryce Brentz. In the meantime, we'll get Nava and Craig and like it.

 

[In my lifetime]

 
It's not remotely hard to see Vic playing tomorrow. Sure, it could be a lot more than that, but not everything is immediately the worst case scenario.
 
I don't for a minute think JBJ is the guy who gets called up. The point of sending him down was to have him get regular playing time to get things back together. Calling him up now would defeat that purpose. For a short stint like this, I think we'd see Bryce Brentz. In the meantime, we'll get Nava and Craig and like it.

 
Sure it is possible he plays tomorrow if the injury is just tightness and not a strain at all. However, missing a couple of weeks with recurrent hamstring issues is not anything close to the worse case possible.  The worst case possible is that he currently has a mild strain, then plays tomorrow, re-aggravates it and is done for 3+ months.  Recurrent hamstring strains are a very problematic injury especially for a player like Victorino who relies on that burst of speed.  I do agree with you that Nava and Craig will get the primary duty in RF. I also think the team and JBJ are probably best served by JBJ being left to get regular starts at Pawtucket until he can prove his bat has turned the corner.  I am hoping that Castillo progresses quickly in his rehab and the Castillo era begins, since he is the best short and long range option in the OF for the RS.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

 
Sure it is possible he plays tomorrow if the injury is just tightness and not a strain at all. However, missing a couple of weeks with recurrent hamstring issues is not anything close to the worse case possible.  The worst case possible is that he currently has a mild strain, then plays tomorrow, re-aggravates it and is done for 3+ months.  Recurrent hamstring strains are a very problematic injury especially for a player like Victorino who relies on that burst of speed.  I do agree with you that Nava and Craig will get the primary duty in RF. I also think the team and JBJ are probably best served by JBJ being left to get regular starts at Pawtucket until he can prove his bat has turned the corner.  I am hoping that Castillo progresses quickly in his rehab and the Castillo era begins, since he is the best short and long range option in the OF for the RS.

 
 
Quite frankly I would consider this the best case scenario. I have seen nothing from Victorino this year to suggest he's a better player than Castillo (or Nava or Craig for that matter). His fielding - reputedly his strong suit - has been tentative. His hitting has been terrible.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Thought there might be more discussion about Allen Craig as the thread title references him.

For those of us who are out of town, what has he looked like over his first 20 PAs?  SSS and all, he's had 11 batted balls and 8 of them (72.7%) have been ground balls (2 LDs and 1 FB).
 
According to Fangraphs, he's still having trouble with fastballs (which isn't a good sign):  he's below average (-0.5) in fastball runs this year (-9.9 last year but +25.6 in 2013).
 
Curious to hear people's impressions.

 

[phenweigh]

He looks more like a lousy major league hitter this year, which is a big improvement over last year when he looked like he might have promise for a decent high school team.

 

[TheYaz67]

As throw-ins go, he appears so far to be no Mike Lowell, that's for sure....

 

[In my lifetime]

 
It's not remotely hard to see Vic playing tomorrow. Sure, it could be a lot more than that, but not everything is immediately the worst case scenario.
 
 

 
It looks like my guess of Victorino being out at least 2 weeks actually underestimated the time out of action, since he was placed on the 15 day DL today.  Between the hamstring and the slow start it is awfully hard to be optimistic about Victorino being the best option in RF for the RS.  Unfortunately, he has a 13M contract and will be impossible to move without the RS picking up over 10M of that contract or taking back a similarly bad contract.
 
Craig has approximately 2 weeks (estimated time until Castillo is ready) to get at least platoon time to show if he has worked out any of the problems from last year.  I certainly hope Castillo is placed on the RS roster a couple of days before Victorino is ready, so he can show he is the best choice for RF.

 

[moondog80]

He absolutely sucked last year, and this year his OPS is 200 points lower.  Small sample size I know, but unless he really turns it around I can't imagine him still being here once Rusney is ready.

 

[KenTremendous]

He also misplayed a single into a triple and may have cost the team the game. (Though the way Koji was throwing, maybe it wouldn't have mattered.) He's a DFA waiting to happen.

 

[jsinger121]

I knew the Red Sox got suckered into Craig. Smart organizations know when to dump a player and the Cardinals are sure proving they knew when to dump a player. Unfortunately he got dumped on us.

 

[RG33]

I knew the Red Sox got suckered into Craig. Smart organizations know when to dump a player and the Cardinals are sure proving they knew when to dump a player. Unfortunately he got dumped on us.

Congratulations on knowing in advance. It probably also explains why the Cardinals have won more World Series than the dumb Red Sox these last 15 years. I wish we were smart enough to dump bad contracts on other teams.

 

[Plympton91]

The Orioles announcers were all over Farrell for not substituting Holt for defense in the bottom of the 10th. Craig really should not have been in the game at that point. Maybe Farrell is playing the 'long game' by trying to get him acclimated and give him the rope he needs to reestablish himself. But, this division is going to be close, that was a game that they could have won.

 

[scotian1]

With the offense that was predicted to score 8 or 9 runs a game faltering on many levels, just don't think you can give Craig or for that manner Victorino much longer before you have to let Castillo play. If the Red Sox had been looking after the Patriots, we probably would still have Bledsoe playing QB.

 

[RG33]

With the offense that was predicted to score 8 or 9 runs a game faltering on many levels, just don't think you can give Craig or for that manner Victorino much longer before you have to let Castillo play. If the Red Sox had been looking after the Patriots, we probably would still have Bledsoe playing QB.

Do you have a link you could share for the periodical that predicted an all-time record 8-9 runs a game this year? I missed that.

And Belichick is definitely a magician, but I am not sure he would be able to get Castillo to play the OF while nursing an injured shoulder on the disabled list.

This team has started off horrifically on the offensive side of things and is 10-8 now. I think their offense will get better and Betts, Pedroia, Ortiz, Napoli, and others will be north of the Mendoza line before long.

 

[jsinger121]

Congratulations on knowing in advance. It probably also explains why the Cardinals have won more World Series than the dumb Red Sox these last 15 years. I wish we were smart enough to dump bad contracts on other teams.

 

 

Jonathan Singer @Jonathan_Singer · Jul 31


Not a fan of Craig. Prospects would have been better RT @pgammo Sox get Kelly, Craig for Lackey

 

 

 
I tweeted this the day of the trade. Looks like I have been right on about Allen Craig. 

 

[judyb]

I tweeted this the day of the trade. Looks like I have been right on about Allen Craig.

Do you know why they can't option him to AAA to see if he can figure it out if given consistent playing time? Because I can't see where he would have been optioned more than once since being added to the Cards 40 man, he doesn't have enough service time to refuse the assignment, and that contract clears OAW or they're free of it.

 

[Byrdbrain]

They can it just is one of those things that isn't typically done to a vetern.
It is coming to the point where it might be on the table though, they may ask him if he would rather the option or the DFA.

 

[Valek123]

Further we don't get Kelly without taking Craig. Craig to me was always a lottery ticket and so far it's turned into the normal lottery odds, he looks cooked. The mgmt is probably giving him one last shot due to injuries then he'll be gone when health returns.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

The Orioles announcers were all over Farrell for not substituting Holt for defense in the bottom of the 10th. Craig really should not have been in the game at that point. Maybe Farrell is playing the 'long game' by trying to get him acclimated and give him the rope he needs to reestablish himself. But, this division is going to be close, that was a game that they could have won.

Is Holt even an average defensive RF though? Yes we know he's gutsy, versatile, and scrappy but he's also taken poor routes on balls and had bad reads on contact which isn't really his fault as RF isn't his natural position. You've got to be a really bad RF for Holt to be a defensive upgrade......this wasn't exactly Stapleton for Buckner imo.

 

[Sprowl]

Is Holt even an average defensive RF though? Yes we know he's gutsy, versatile, and scrappy but he's also taken poor routes on balls and had bad reads on contact which isn't really his fault as RF isn't his natural position. You've got to be a really bad RF for Holt to be a defensive upgrade......this wasn't exactly Stapleton for Buckner imo.

 
Holt is a very good right fielder with excellent range. RF was Holt's best position in 2014 by Defensive Runs Saved and UZR/150, and by the eye test, I'd say he was genuinely impressive over 264 innings.

 

[geoduck no quahog]

Ironic that none of the Victorino haters are moaning that the best RF was unavailable last night. He alone may have been the difference between a loss and a win. I hope he gets healthy soon.

 

[Toe Nash]

Ironic that none of the Victorino haters are moaning that the best RF was unavailable last night. He alone may have been the difference between a loss and a win. I hope he gets healthy soon.

Part of the reason Victorino has haters is because he can't stay healthy. There's no one who would bench 2013 Victorino...but that guy isn't likely to be back except in spurts, if we're lucky.
 
Castillo is very likely the best right fielder in the org; hopefully he will be entrenched there soon enough.

 

[Rasputin]

Ironic that none of the Victorino haters are moaning that the best RF was unavailable last night. He alone may have been the difference between a loss and a win. I hope he gets healthy soon.

 
I would imagine most of the Vic haters think Castillo is the best RF.

 

[luckysox]

Craig is the toastiest of toasts. His deep fly balls land harmlessly in the CFer's glove, about 290 ft from the plate. Done.

 

[bosockboy]

Yeah I'm starting to believe he's toast. I'm hard pressed to remember a truly hard hit ball since he's arrived here.

 

[Al Zarilla]

Craig is the toastiest of toasts. His deep fly balls land harmlessly in the CFer's glove, about 290 ft from the plate. Done.

Hope attending that game doesn't scar your son. Nah, he's very young.

 

[grimshaw]

Part of the reason Victorino has haters is because he can't stay healthy. There's no one who would bench 2013 Victorino...but that guy isn't likely to be back except in spurts, if we're lucky.
 
Castillo is very likely the best right fielder in the org; hopefully he will be entrenched there soon enough.

Yes this.  That's part of what has bugged me about Shane-O apologists.  The lack of hitting isn't a huge deal if he's one of the best defenders and base runners in the AL He is never going to be that anymore, so the noodle bat thing makes it that much worse.  I can't imagine Rusney isn't an instant upgrade in the field and on the bases..

 

[maxotaur]

Ironic that none of the Victorino haters are moaning that the best RF was unavailable last night. He alone may have been the difference between a loss and a win. I hope he gets healthy soon.

If the Sox season hinges on Vic "alone" being the difference between success and failure in any single game that's very troubling.

The same could be said of any player for that matter, but certainly Vic at this point. The fact that the game might have been won if he were playing is true, yet rather hyperbolic. The game "might" have been won if any of the regulars were exchanged.

 

[Toe Nash]

Yeah I'm starting to believe he's toast. I'm hard pressed to remember a truly hard hit ball since he's arrived here.

He has 4 XBH in 141 PA with Boston. Can't even luck into a bloop double down the line.

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

Yeah I'm starting to believe he's toast. I'm hard pressed to remember a truly hard hit ball since he's arrived here.

He had one opposite field dinger in the skydome that was somewhat tantalizing early on, but it must have been a lightning strike.

I'd rather see Bryce Brentz out there. At least JBJ is fun to watch play defense.

 

[Dahabenzapple2]

Seriously how many ABs they gonna throw away with Craig?

I have to think 75 or 100 Max before they eat the contract.

As above, give us JBJ or Brentz please

 

[geoduck no quahog]

If Craig gets dumped - Castillo takes his spot. Right?

 

[Rasputin]

If Craig gets dumped - Castillo takes his spot. Right?

Seems likely. I think that probably means Craig gets the bulk of the time in right until Castillo is ready. Of he's still showing us zip I think it'll be time to cut bait.

Maybe a nice twelve day stretch of him doing jack will convince him a trip to AAA is what he needs.

 

[MuzzyField]

 
I would imagine most of the Vic haters think Castillo is the best RF.

I would imagine most of the Vic lovers agree.

 

[reggiecleveland]

Ironic that none of the Victorino haters are moaning that the best RF was unavailable last night. He alone may have been the difference between a loss and a win. I hope he gets healthy soon.

Why do you take this so personally? Why do we have to pick sides. And as mentioned, one major knock on Vic us he hurt all the time and thus is not out there to make the play in RF.

 

[luckysox]

Hope attending that game doesn't scar your son. Nah, he's very young.

It scarred me.  
He booed the stupid Bird mascot and said "Shoo, get away, bird!"  Not scarred.
 
Edit - Re: Craig. I think you have to give him most of the RF at bats until Rusney is ready, just to see if something goes right and he has a nice 10 game stretch that might yield any little thing in a possible trade. But I expect zilch from the guy.  In person, his bat is just not there. You know how the ball just jumps off of the bat of some guys, even on an out?  Even on a routine fly ball?  The ball just sort of thuds out into the field off of Craig's bat. He's not close, he's not almost there...he's toast. 

 

[geoduck no quahog]

Why do you take this so personally? Why do we have to pick sides. And as mentioned, one major knock on Vic us he hurt all the time and thus is not out there to make the play in RF.

 
Sorry, I get too aggravated when reading Game Threads (which is a ridiculous sentiment to begin with). 
 
Rationally - I'm just uncertain when it's time to cut bait on a guy - some think too early is better than too late, some the other way around.
 
At some point we're going to have to do the same thing with Ortiz.
 
In any case, Victorino's injury history is absolutely a valid criticism because it necessitates extra outfielders. If he was a thoroughbred - he'd already be put out to stud (or shot).

 

[Comebacker to Foulke]

The thing about Craig, to me is this: even in his good years, we're talking about a guy who was maybe a 3 bWAR player per 600 PA's, and that was in the lesser league. He could hit a little, yes.
But he is never gonna be a good defender or baserunner, and he has never drawn many BB's. He was, at best, a slightly better than average regular. And now he's on the wrong side of 30, coming
off a tough injury, and has absolutely sucked in his last 500+ PA's.
 
How long a leash does a guy like that warrant?  I know the options at the moment are limited, but I'd just stick Holt out there in RF as much as possible, until he stops hitting. At least he can catch the ball.

 

[mwonow]

The thing about Craig, to me is this: even in his good years, we're talking about a guy who was maybe a 3 bWAR player per 600 PA's, and that was in the lesser league. He could hit a little, yes.
But he is never gonna be a good defender or baserunner, and he has never drawn many BB's. He was, at best, a slightly better than average regular. And now he's on the wrong side of 30, coming
off a tough injury, and has absolutely sucked in his last 500+ PA's.
 
How long a leash does a guy like that warrant?  I know the options at the moment are limited, but I'd just stick Holt out there in RF as much as possible, until he stops hitting. At least he can catch the ball.

 
He'd really have to stop hitting. BH would need to go 0 for his next 89 to get from his current .457 to Craig's .129

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

They can it just is one of those things that isn't typically done to a vetern.
It is coming to the point where it might be on the table though, they may ask him if he would rather the option or the DFA.

One would think that at some point Craig himself might become embarrassed enough about his performance to welcome a chance to play everyday and get his timing back.

If he gets cut and still wants to play, is there any team out there willing to give him consistent ABs on the major league level?

 

[lexrageorge]

 
Sorry, I get too aggravated when reading Game Threads (which is a ridiculous sentiment to begin with). 
 
Rationally - I'm just uncertain when it's time to cut bait on a guy - some think too early is better than too late, some the other way around.
 
At some point we're going to have to do the same thing with Ortiz.
 
In any case, Victorino's injury history is absolutely a valid criticism because it necessitates extra outfielders. If he was a thoroughbred - he'd already be put out to stud (or shot).

Despite Ortiz' struggles, he's still on track for about 30 HR's and 84 BB's, and his OPS+ of 96 is not horrific either.  He's had cold periods before in his career, and so there's still an expectation that he'll turn around.  Yes, he's looked terrible against lefties, but it's also only been 15 AB's.  
 
Victorino is on the team because he gave the team the most flexibility coming out of spring training.  And we're talking 43 plate appearances.  And having Rusney get some at bats in Pawtucket has not been the worst thing for his career either.  
 
OTOH, the Sox cannot afford to give Craig as much rope.   I'm all for giving him the chance to show the scouts of other teams that he still has some life left in the bat, but there's only so much time the team can afford.  He's being given his chances now, and it's on him to take advantage of these chances, imperfect as they may be. 

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

Despite Ortiz' struggles, he's still on track for about 30 HR's and 84 BB's, and his OPS+ of 96 is not horrific either.  He's had cold periods before in his career, and so there's still an expectation that he'll turn around.  Yes, he's looked terrible against lefties, but it's also only been 15 AB's. 

 
He said "at some point" -- he didn't say the point would come right now, or even necessarily this year.
 
Of course it's not certain that there will ever be a Craig-like situation with Ortiz: he could have a solid year and then retire while he's still good. Or he could decide to do a Jeterian farewell tour in 2016. But I think gnq is right that there will most likely come a time when he has a prolonged slump and the Sox have to decide whether it's just a prolonged slump or The End.

 

[moondog80]

126/224/173: Allen Craig's slash stats with the Red Sox
149/182/190: Wade Miley's career slash stats
142/175/215: Joe Kelly's career slash stats
 
Craig turns the Sox into an NL team when he's in the lineup.

 

[Montana Fan]

Is there any reason not to send Craig down to AAA to try and sort things out?  I didn't expect Craig to make the opening day roster.  Bring up Brentz and give him a shot until Rusney is ready.