Next Coordinators - who do you want?

[dynomite]

Which is why i like the option of McDaniels, he’s not likely to head coach again so there’s no where to go and he seems to like it here.

I’d also like AVP to stay if what they say about Maye is true. I don’t know if it’s TC McCartney or AVP or both, but if AVP is that close with Maye, they should get him on the staff somewhere if they can.

1) Something I've been wondering: has a coordinator ever worked for a player they used to coach? Not that McDaniels coached Vrabel directly, and at this point it was 16 (?) years ago, but still.

Beyond that, given that McDaniels has won many Super Bowls as an OC for the GOAT QB and run two organizations as a Head Coach, to me it would make more sense to go run a college program as Belichick did.

If McDaniels does return, I would hope to the points made he's comfortable making a multi-year commitment and not just biding his time until the right college/NFL position opens up. Particularly if the Pats hire a younger/less experienced OC or even retain AVP, I wonder whether he'd be willing to serve in a similar role to Vrabel's with Cleveland this year, as a consultant/advisor on the offense who works with Maye on specific things and offers ideas but doesn't have to be in the building at 6am every day breaking down tape.

2) To offer a deeply morbid and -- I fear -- almost flippant by comparison* example of a QB who had a great relationship with his QB Coach his rookie year but continued to develop without him, to this day Brady has talked about 2000 Pats QB Coach Dick Rehbein's influence on him as a rookie (Rehbein, who Belichick credited with being the person most responsible for the Patriots drafting Brady, tragically passed away in August 2001). Still, Brady was able to take those lessons and continue to improve despite losing his first NFL coaching mentor. (* Again, Rehbein's passing was tragic -- was glad to find this wonderful profile of Rehbein's family ESPN published 10 years ago: https://www.espn.com/nfl/playoffs/2014/story/_/id/12175963/dick-rehbein-championed-tom-brady-new-england-patriots)

Anyway, obviously this decision is up to Vrabel, but in his evaluation I don't think AVP's relationship with Maye is enough to overcome the disaster that was the rest of the offense and the lack of development from just about anyone other than Maye, Milton, and Boutte (no small feats, but not sufficient).

Given Maye and Milton's development, I agree with others that without knowing more I would try to at least retain McCartney.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Definitely agree re thinking about a succession plan, but when you say a "five year window," what does this mean? I just think especially in the modern NFL where teams seem to prefer hiring NFL coordinators to college HCs, successful coordinators become HC candidates after ~2 seasons.



Solid writeups! Thanks for taking the time.

- re McDaniels, I'm interested what outdated scheme means? His Raiders were 12th in the NFL in points/yards in 2022 with Carr missing 2 games. The team as a whole was obviously not good, but the offensive scheme seemed to be fairly successful (and yes, they had good personnel in Jacobs and Adams but most good offenses have good players).

So among the things people mention on McDaniels, is he runs a lot of static under-center stuff, they use Erhardt-Perkins which is terminology almost nobody else does, and it's notoriously hard to pick up and relies on the QB (and WRs) making a lot of decisions, and it really struggled to create mismatches that lead to explosive plays. His teams were very good at staying on track with runs and short passes, but better defenses can get it behind, it isn't really good for coming back or dealing with penalties. Despite the 1 year where they tried some stuff with Cam, he generally doesn't love QB runs, RPO and the like, he prefers a bunch of pre-snap reads and a QB who drops backs and slings it. One question will also be run scheme... do they want to run Duo/Zone or both? Josh has not done much with zone and it didn't generally go well when he tried. The last thing is complexity... most teams are trying to make things simpler on their players, it makes it easier for guys to step in, it reduces the miscommunication issues, less emphasis on both the QB and WR reading it the same. Davante Adams was an All-Pro for many years, he complained about the complexity of picking up the offense... with a young QB, mostly young WRs, and hoping to add in more young guys to the offense in the draft... getting all those guys on the same page in a very complex offense is a concern.

 

[jacklamabe65]

What might be the timeline for the coordinator positions? By February 1st?

 

[Cellar-Door]

What might be the timeline for the coordinator positions? By February 1st?

I would expect interviews this week and next. If they want to wait on someone still in the playoffs that could drag it out into February.

 

[BigJimEd]

I think you go get the top coordinator and best talent for position coaches that you can. If they do such a good job that they leave for a promotion in two years. Good for them and the team. Hopefully you've got enough talent behind them that have also learned even more under that coordinator.

It's nice to have stability but I'm not choosing a lesser option because you think they aren't likely to be going anywhere.

 

[jsinger121]

Cross Tommy Rees off the list. The Browns promoted him to OC.

 

[sezwho]

What might be the timeline for the coordinator positions? By February 1st?

Vrabel doing the interview car wash this am said no timeline. Think it was Greg Hill show said it could be weeks, or longer. Referenced as subtext the fact some (presumably good) coaches are still coaching.

On Zo show was asked specifically about hiring Josh and had a bit of silence and answered ultimately that he was someone they’d talk to. Vrabel seems instinctively to not follow BB path (other than back to Pats I guess so curious how this plays out.

 

[Cellar-Door]

It's funny, but I kind of think my top pairing would be..... the two guys who were on the Saints last year.

I like Kubiak a lot, I thought he did some really nice work with not good talent (he got significantly more out of Carr than Josh did for example) their offense ended up slightly better than the previous year despite having to start Haener and Rattler for 7 games. Not sure my 2nd choice.. maybe McDaniels? Not crazy about anybody.

Allen is a really good DC who is a really bad HC, now I don't know his personality and if it would fit with Vrabel. If he's off the board I lean towards Graham.

I'm sure there are tons of guys I missed in my lists, but of the ones I thought of I think Kubiak and Allen/Graham would be my preference.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

So among the things people mention on McDaniels, is he runs a lot of static under-center stuff, they use Erhardt-Perkins which is terminology almost nobody else does, and it's notoriously hard to pick up and relies on the QB (and WRs) making a lot of decisions, and it really struggled to create mismatches that lead to explosive plays. His teams were very good at staying on track with runs and short passes, but better defenses can get it behind, it isn't really good for coming back or dealing with penalties. Despite the 1 year where they tried some stuff with Cam, he generally doesn't love QB runs, RPO and the like, he prefers a bunch of pre-snap reads and a QB who drops backs and slings it. One question will also be run scheme... do they want to run Duo/Zone or both? Josh has not done much with zone and it didn't generally go well when he tried. The last thing is complexity... most teams are trying to make things simpler on their players, it makes it easier for guys to step in, it reduces the miscommunication issues, less emphasis on both the QB and WR reading it the same. Davante Adams was an All-Pro for many years, he complained about the complexity of picking up the offense... with a young QB, mostly young WRs, and hoping to add in more young guys to the offense in the draft... getting all those guys on the same page in a very complex offense is a concern.

And yet, he could run this offense with Matt Cassel and Mac Jones, and even modify it for an over the hill Cam Newton.

 

[Cellar-Door]

And yet, he could run this offense with Matt Cassel and Mac Jones, and even modify it for an over the hill Cam Newton.

I mean... to an extent yes? Matt Cassel was in the system 3 full years before he played, and he took over a team that in 2007 (and again in 2009) was one of the best offenses of all time, and was... ok?
Mac Jones 2021 was an impressive year, they had a pretty good offense, it is definitely a case for him... it wasn't very explosive and it had a bit of a "blow out bad teams, struggle with good ones" nature, but still good (though understanding complex offenses was always supposed to be Mac's strength)
The Cam Newton year.... that offense was abysmal on the passing side (27th-29th in the league), it was impressive they won with basically the Navy offense, but it was not anything you'd want to reproduce.

 

[dynomite]

So among the things people mention on McDaniels, is he runs a lot of static under-center stuff, they use Erhardt-Perkins which is terminology almost nobody else does, and it's notoriously hard to pick up and relies on the QB (and WRs) making a lot of decisions, and it really struggled to create mismatches that lead to explosive plays. ... Davante Adams was an All-Pro for many years, he complained about the complexity of picking up the offense... with a young QB, mostly young WRs, and hoping to add in more young guys to the offense in the draft... getting all those guys on the same page in a very complex offense is a concern.

Ah, I see. That makes sense. Definitely a good point there. Ultimately I think I land somewhere here:

And yet, he could run this offense with Matt Cassel and Mac Jones, and even modify it for an over the hill Cam Newton.

To be fair, the offense under Cam was a disaster.

But I think the "pushback to the pushback" on McDaniels to somehow discount his success with Cassel in 2008 (8th in points scored in the NFL) and Mac in 2021 (6th in points scored in the NFL) is misplaced. Josh is one of the most accomplished, successful offensive coordinators in NFL history. We would be deeply, truly lucky if he's willing to come back and be OC on the Pats.

Re Rees being promoted in Cleveland, I'm fine with that. I don't want a 32-year-old cutting his teeth as a first time OC with Maye and this Pats offense.

Lazar has a new OC candidate writeup here: https://www.patriots.com/news/lazar-s-top-candidates-for-the-patriots-next-offensive-coordinator

Overall, with limited information and basically no real insights here, I think my preference remains Mike Lafleur, who is still a young hotshot at 37 but has more experience under his belt than most 37 year olds.

He's a blend of all the qualities I want -- innovative, modern, learned under great offensive minds, proven record of developing later round/less heralded selections as opposed to just winning with elite skill position talent (5th rounders in Puka Nacua and Kyren Williams, etc.).

Mike LaFleur (Current Job: Rams Offensive Coordinator)

In his first season as Titans head coach, Vrabel tabbed LaFleur's brother, Matt, as his offensive coordinator, poaching Matt from Sean McVay's staff where he was the Rams offensive coordinator. Could the younger LaFleur brother follow a similar path as his older brother?

Although it would be a lateral move title-wise for LaFleur, McVay has let his offensive coordinators leave before to allow them to be play-callers. Obviously, McVay is the primary play-caller and offensive architect in LA. In this instance, LaFleur has called plays already as the Jets offensive coordinator under Robert Salah for two seasons. Along with working for McVay, LaFleur spent seven seasons working under Kyle Shanahan, linking up with Saleh in San Francisco. LaFleur has been mentored by Shanahan, McVay, and his older brother. For an offensive coach, it doesn't get much better than that, while LaFleur would likely run a Shanahan tree offense that Vrabel is familiar with already.

It's fair to wonder why LaFleur failed in his first opportunity as a play-caller. At age 34, he might not have been ready to run an offense. The Jets were also trying to make Zach Wilson work, so maybe he was paired with the wrong quarterback. With the LaFleur-Vrabel connection, it's possible that the Pats HC could pry LaFleur out of Los Angeles.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Lazar has a new OC candidate writeup here: https://www.patriots.com/news/lazar-s-top-candidates-for-the-patriots-next-offensive-coordinator

Overall, with limited information and basically no real insights here, I think my preference remains Mike Lafleur, who is still a young hotshot at 37 but has more experience under his belt than most 37 year olds.

He's a blend of all the qualities I want -- innovative, modern, learned under great offensive minds, etc.

I'm dubious of Mike, he was really bad for NYJ I thought. Yes the QBs there were bad, but just the difference between how Flacco looked in NYJ (he couldn't get a job) and how he looked under Stefanski/AVP in CLE was striking.

@luckiestman can probably give insight. Maybe I'm too harsh but I wasn't impressed.

I should have him on my list though, I did forget him because he has an OC title... McVay might let him leave to call plays, though he doesn't have to (he did it for LaFleur's brother).

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I don’t want anyone who will be jumping off to a new HC job next year.

 

[dynomite]

I'm dubious of Mike, he was really bad for NYJ I thought. Yes the QBs there were bad, but just the difference between how Flacco looked in NYJ (he couldn't get a job) and how he looked under Stefanski/AVP in CLE was striking.

@luckiestman can probably give insight. Maybe I'm too harsh but I wasn't impressed.

I should have him on my list though, I did forget him because he has an OC title... McVay might let him leave to call plays, though he doesn't have to (he did it for LaFleur's brother).

Yes, his tenure with the Jets was really concerning, no question. And I'm sure @luckiestman has not great things to say about that, which I'd be interested to read.

Overall, I'm willing to mostly write that off because:

1) Zach Wilson. Much like Mac Jones on the Pats, Wilson was such a disaster that I suspect he was a coach killer. As Lazar notes, the Jets had 450+ yard games with Mike White at QB in 2022.

2) Lafleur was 34 and cutting his teeth as an OC. He was probably a bit green to be thrust into that role with a rookie QB and a defensive minded HC who I doubt could really support him.

3) McVay bringing him in and making him OC speaks volumes. At the risk of hyperbole, I think McVay is sort of akin to a Belichick equivalent on the offensive side of the ball, a veritable genius with photographic recall, and his coaching alums seem to have a good track record already. If he trusts Mike Lafleur, that's an enormous mark in his favor to me.

 

[Justthetippett]

Might add a few old heads: Reich and Pederson. Both unlikely to be HCs again. Andy Reid's concepts still seem pretty current. Could be worth a look.

Personally I think Caley, McCown and LaFleur are also very interesting.

 

[brendan f]

So among the things people mention on McDaniels, is he runs a lot of static under-center stuff, they use Erhardt-Perkins which is terminology almost nobody else does, and it's notoriously hard to pick up and relies on the QB (and WRs) making a lot of decisions, and it really struggled to create mismatches that lead to explosive plays.

These are all really important points and for me is exactly why he's not a good hire. Maye is going to have to learn all of this archaic terminology that no one uses, do all of these pre-snap reading which--at least in part contributed to Mac Jones's struggles--and then all of it will have no carry-over with whoever is the next coordinator. McDaniels is sort of a dinosaur. Time to move on.

 

[RedOctober3829]

I don’t want anyone who will be jumping off to a new HC job next year.

We should all be so lucky to have an offense that produced so well that our OC would be considered jumping to a HC position.

 

[dynomite]

I don’t want anyone who will be jumping off to a new HC job next year.

I think the truth is that's relatively baked into most of the hires -- apart from McDaniels or perhaps a retread like Pederson or Reich, any young up & coming OC who shows success and promise next season with Maye will vault into HC consideration as soon as next year.

As @RedOctober3829 says, if the options are the OC getting fired after next year or getting poached because he's been so good, we'd all take the latter.

Might add a few old heads: Reich and Pederson. Both unlikely to be HCs again. Andy Reid's concepts still seem pretty current. Could be worth a look.

Personally I think Caley, McCown and LaFleur are also very interesting.

I'd be interested to bring those guys in and see what their pitch is. Not sure if Vrabel has any connection to either of them, but I assume he's well aware that without Arthur Smith his Titans were a disaster on offense and he wants an OC he can trust, whether he's worked with him before or not.

I'm also interested in McCown, but he's more of an unknown to me as far as I'm reading his history. He seemed incredibly dedicated to volunteering as a QB coach with a HS in NC where he sons were while still playing as a backup in the NFL, then had one mostly disastrous half season as the Panthers QB coach last year (when Bryce Young was a disaster, as opposed to this year when he was more successful), and then obviously the Vikings struck gold with Darnold this year. But to all of a sudden entrust Maye's development and playcalling to him -- let alone rebuilding the entire WR and OL rooms -- feels like a stretch.

 

[luckiestman]

I'm dubious of Mike, he was really bad for NYJ I thought. Yes the QBs there were bad, but just the difference between how Flacco looked in NYJ (he couldn't get a job) and how he looked under Stefanski/AVP in CLE was striking.

@luckiestman can probably give insight. Maybe I'm too harsh but I wasn't impressed.

I should have him on my list though, I did forget him because he has an OC title... McVay might let him leave to call plays, though he doesn't have to (he did it for LaFleur's brother).

I actually didn't mind LaFleur. Look at how Mike White did with him before the scumbag Matt Milano broke his ribs and even some Flacco games were ok. We could not protect Flacco for shit our oline was as bad as it gets. The oline is way better now when healthy.

 

[lexrageorge]

I mean... to an extent yes? Matt Cassel was in the system 3 full years before he played, and he took over a team that in 2007 (and again in 2009) was one of the best offenses of all time, and was... ok?
Mac Jones 2021 was an impressive year, they had a pretty good offense, it is definitely a case for him... it wasn't very explosive and it had a bit of a "blow out bad teams, struggle with good ones" nature, but still good (though understanding complex offenses was always supposed to be Mac's strength)
The Cam Newton year.... that offense was abysmal on the passing side (27th-29th in the league), it was impressive they won with basically the Navy offense, but it was not anything you'd want to reproduce.

Sorry for the nitpick…

The 2009 offense was good but highly vulnerable - recall “flood the middle field on Welker and put a safety on Moss and we’re done”. 2010 was the record setting offense that was only a tick below 2007.

I mean, Matt Cassell was a late 7th round pick and had no experience whatsoever, and did a good job in 2008. McDaniels certainly deserves credit for his development that season.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Sorry for the nitpick…

The 2009 offense was good but highly vulnerable - recall “flood the middle field on Welker and put a safety on Moss and we’re done”. 2010 was the record setting offense that was only a tick below 2007.

I mean, Matt Cassell was a late 7th round pick and had no experience whatsoever, and did a good job in 2008. McDaniels certainly deserves credit for his development that season.

Ah true, 2007 and 2010 were 2 of the top 4 seasons ever in DVOA at one point, 2009 was still excellent (#1 in the league and top 100 or so ever), but yeah 2008 was a drop off.
I agree he deserves credit for getting Cassel to the point he could be decent for sure. My point was more, if a concern is that it is complicated and a lot of QB/WR have trouble picking it up... Cassel isn't exactly a case against that, he had 3 full years on the bench before he had to play.

Edit- I'd also say... the Patriots were bleeding edge in that period, they were at the front of the trends... it was a decade and a half ago, even his biggest fans wouldn't say McDaniels is one of the more progressive OCs anymore.

 

[dynomite]

Sorry for the nitpick…

The 2009 offense was good but highly vulnerable - recall “flood the middle field on Welker and put a safety on Moss and we’re done”. 2010 was the record setting offense that was only a tick below 2007.

I mean, Matt Cassell was a late 7th round pick and had no experience whatsoever, and did a good job in 2008. McDaniels certainly deserves credit for his development that season.

Right, again, McDaniels' had a multi-decade run of success as an OC -- not just with Brady, but with Cassel and Mac, as well as with Carr in Vegas.

Trusting a young, unproven OC who has never called plays in the NFL before seems like a far riskier pick than McDaniels, which people can argue for anyway but should be acknowledged.

Edit- I'd also say... the Patriots were bleeding edge in that period, they were at the front of the trends... it was a decade and a half ago, even his biggest fans wouldn't say McDaniels is one of the more progressive OCs anymore.

I guess this would be one of the first questions I would have in an interview with McDaniels. He's still only 48 years old, with many potential years ahead of him left in football.

So I would want to know how closely he's tracking current trends in the NFL, which offenses he's liked to watch this year and why, how he would approach Maye's development given the problems on the O-line, how he responds to the idea that his offense was too complicated to be run by guys not named Tom Brady, etc.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Right, again, McDaniels' had a multi-decade run of success as an OC -- not just with Brady, but with Cassel and Mac, as well as with Carr in Vegas.

Trusting a young, unproven OC who has never called plays in the NFL before seems like a far riskier pick than McDaniels, which people can argue for anyway but should be acknowledged.



I guess this would be one of the first questions I would have in an interview with McDaniels. He's still only 48 years old, with many potential years ahead of him left in football.

So I would want to know how closely he's tracking current trends in the NFL, which offenses he's liked to watch this year and why, how he would approach Maye's development given the problems on the O-line, how he responds to the idea that his offense was too complicated to be run by guys not named Tom Brady, etc.

I don't think anyone is dismissing his success, I think people are trying to project what you get out of him going forward, and how that fits Maye (who does not really fit the QB types he likes)

I'd also push back a little at Carr being a success. It was one of Carr's worse seasons and Josh moved on from him (for Jimmy G who tanked) and Carr was better in NO with less talent the next year.

I trust that Josh would make a competent offense and a pretty good running game. I'm a bit less confident he'll get the most out of Maye and the WRs based on his history and his 20+ years of QB preference. Could he... sure, but it's far from a sure thing he's the best guy to get you a top offense, or to get Maye to the top of his game.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I think Maye's development over the next 2-3 years will have more impact on the Pats organizational success than the vagaries of the offensive system. They are interrelated of course, but for me McDaniels' track record with young QBs as offensive coordinator outweighs concerns about his offense.

 

[DJnVa]

These are all really important points and for me is exactly why he's not a good hire. Maye is going to have to learn all of this archaic terminology that no one uses, do all of these pre-snap reading which--at least in part contributed to Mac Jones's struggles--and then all of it will have no carry-over with whoever is the next coordinator. McDaniels is sort of a dinosaur. Time to move on.

The theory is that McDaniels wouldn't be leaving for an HC job and by the time he or the team moves on, Maye is essentially OC proof.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Vrabel has emphasized offensive adaptability and versatility (running zone and man, giving your players only what they can handle) in his media spots, so I expect he will grill McDaniels in any eventual interview about his ability and willingness to conform to the needs of their players and league trends.

It is fascinating to me how Vrabel will go about the search. Does he, among other soft factors like personality fit, privilege demonstrated QB coaching experience? Experience as a playcaller, period? Experience in offenses (eg any number of WC variants) with lower mental barriers to entry for younger players (or, really, any players, veterans or not) in terms of terminology, pre snap adjustments, and post snap reads? I really don’t know.

Personally, I am most suspicious of any candidate who hasn’t coached QBs, unless, perhaps, I can be sure they have a path to bring in a great QB coach. I am disinclined to have the guy most responsible for Maye’s development/the guy overseeing the offensive operation to be an unknown in that department.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I think Maye's development over the next 2-3 years will have more impact on the Pats organizational success than the vagaries of the offensive system. They are interrelated of course, but for me McDaniels' track record with young QBs as offensive coordinator outweighs concerns about his offense.

So the thing to me about this would be... what do we mean by developing the QB? If it;s just technical stuff... leave AVP and MCCartney in place, they've done that well, and I don't think that is really McDaniels' wheelhouse (Brady for example had private coaches for stuff like mechanics). If it's mental stuff... well that is inseparable from the offense, and you want to develop the QB in the offense you want him to run. That's where the questions about McDaniels will be... he's never really had a QB like Maye. If we had say... Shedeur Sanders, or Mac Jones, guys with mediocre physical tools who need to survive on pre-snap processing, quick decisions, and live mostly underneath from in the pocket... McDaniels is the guy. I don't think that's who Maye is or ever will be... he's Josh Allen, or Herbert maybe if you're lucky Mahomes. Guys who play out of the pocket, off platform, threaten with their legs, where you;ll probably never have 80% completions but you're looking for the big play. Now maybe Josh could do that, but it's never been him M.O. In some ways one thing I worry about is I look at Vegas... neither QB there was Maye, but which guy do we see as more Maye-like... the sometimes overagressive big armed QB who wanted to throw play action bombs and attack downfield, or the guy who wanted to win with quick throws and underneath stuff? His draft picks and signings in LV... he gravitated to guys who were mental guys with nothing special or worse arms and no real mobility.Even in Denver, he immediately dumped the big armed gunslinger for a soft throwing safe mental skills guy. He then drafted a guy who couldn't throw at all (but mobile!) barely played him and got fired.

I think there are legit concerns about whether McDaniels is the best guy, because he doesn't really have a track record with guys like Maye, his offense is notoriously tough on WRs, etc.Because yes Maye is the most important guy to develop, but the rest of the offense needs to come with him.

I'd love a guy who would stay the 3 years to get Maye to 4 overall (I feel like most guys get the bulk of their big development steps in that period) but I think there is an extent to which you just want the best guy and hope you get 2-3 years, over taking a guy you're less sure on or think is lower ceiling but won't leave.

It's a tough choice, and we probably can't entirely tell from the outside. Possible JMcD spent his sabbatical learning about college offenses and mobile QBs, and comes into his meeting with a plan based around that and blows Vrabel away.... I hope he does.

 

[Justthetippett]

One more name, just for giggles: Chip Kelly. Worth a look? Never going to HC in the NFL again, so he'll have plenty of runway in the job. He's 61 but still creative. Has operated within structure at tOSU. Apparently he was drawing some interest from the League last year, and I doubt anything this year would have caused that to wane. Has a three year deal at tOSU, but probably reasonable terms to leave. Could allow them to develop a younger guy in parallel.

 

[dynomite]

One more name, just for giggles: Chip Kelly. Worth a look? Never going to HC in the NFL again, so he'll have plenty of runway in the job. He's 61 but still creative. Has operated within structure at tOSU. Apparently he was drawing some interest from the League last year, and I doubt anything this year would have caused that to wane. Has a three year deal at tOSU, but probably reasonable terms to leave. Could allow them to develop a younger guy in parallel.

I don’t hate it. He’s from New Hampshire and coached at UNH. He’s very close with Belichick, and talked to him in 2017 when he was rumored to be a successor to McDaniels.

Still, he seems like he’s quite happy at OSU and has known Day for decades. I’m not sure he wants to leave, and money isn’t a factor given that he apparently gave up a $6M yearly salary at UCLA for a total of $6M at OSU.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/chip-kelly-settles-into-simpler-life-at-ohio-state-as-engineer-of-no-2-buckeyes-high-powered-offense/amp/

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2024-12-30/chip-kelly-finds-satisfaction-ohio-state-ucla

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

One more name, just for giggles: Chip Kelly. Worth a look? Never going to HC in the NFL again, so he'll have plenty of runway in the job. He's 61 but still creative. Has operated within structure at tOSU. Apparently he was drawing some interest from the League last year, and I doubt anything this year would have caused that to wane. Has a three year deal at tOSU, but probably reasonable terms to leave. Could allow them to develop a younger guy in parallel.

Funny that you say this. Hard pass after watching this:

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/C-_AeO8Sir0/?igsh=MWQ1ZGUxMzBkMA==


There was another reel that I can't find where McCoy claims nobody liked Kelly in those locker rooms.

Vrabes is already tough on players. We should not want NE to be the Hardo capital of the NFL until we see results from that approach.

 

[SJMDownunder]

So, maybe a time to try a vote (should have done it from the start?). Whilst I’ve been on this site since right at the very start, I’m only a new poster and have not been able to do the vote thing. Anyone want to help? The names are all out there.

Feel free to say no need!

 

[dynomite]

It's a tough choice, and we probably can't entirely tell from the outside. Possible JMcD spent his sabbatical learning about college offenses and mobile QBs, and comes into his meeting with a plan based around that and blows Vrabel away.... I hope he does.

Interestingly, McDaniels was on the Edelman podcast and talked about Maye in preseason:

Josh McDaniels discussing his thoughts on Drake Maye this preseason.

Come for the footwork talk, stay for the hint (maybe) at more designed runs.

View: https://twitter.com/boorish_sports/status/1878463910589649281?s=46&t=6DB7f-vL8rs72lyXNmMD-A

View: https://twitter.com/gameswithnames/status/1878915581136535584?s=46&t=6DB7f-vL8rs72lyXNmMD-A

 

[NomarsFool]

The Cam Newton year.... that offense was abysmal on the passing side (27th-29th in the league), it was impressive they won with basically the Navy offense, but it was not anything you'd want to reproduce.

I mean, Cam could barely throw. If a QB can't throw a basic screen pass you can't really put that on the coordinator for the passing game being crappy. It's amazing they had an offense at all, and I was impressed that they were able to retool the approach so late in the offseason.

Now, the fact that the Patriots were planning on rolling with Stidham so late in the offseason I will never, ever understand - but that is a separate topic for BB.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I mean, Cam could barely throw. If a QB can't throw a basic screen pass you can't really put that on the coordinator for the passing game being crappy. It's amazing they had an offense at all, and I was impressed that they were able to retool the approach so late in the offseason.

Now, the fact that the Patriots were planning on rolling with Stidham so late in the offseason I will never, ever understand - but that is a separate topic for BB.

I mean, I get it, my point was, you can't really take the Cam year as evidence of how he'd use Maye... they had 13 games under 250 passing yards, 12 of those under 200, 7 under 150, and 2 games under 75 yards..... it wasn't a real NFL passing offense.

 

[DJnVa]

So, maybe a time to try a vote (should have done it from the start?). Whilst I’ve been on this site since right at the very start, I’m only a new poster and have not been able to do the vote thing. Anyone want to help? The names are all out there.

Feel free to say no need!

I was thinking of starting one, but was going to wait until we heard about some actual interviews.

 

[Cellar-Door]

As a side note.... I hope they keep Springer. The ST was excellent this year, no reason to move on.

 

[Auger34]

Ideally, AVP would stay on as a QB coach. If he's not interested in doing that, I would move on from him (thought he was pretty poor as a playcaller).

Ultimately, I think you go with McDaniels or one of the McVay tree (Kubiak, McCown, LaFleur). I think I'd prefer McD. He's a good developer of quarterbacks and I don't think anyone would ever hire him as an NFL head coach again, so you won't have the spectre of him leaving if the offense is successful hanging over the team

 

[brendan f]

I think I'd prefer McD. He's a good developer of quarterbacks and I don't think anyone would ever hire him as an NFL head coach again, so you won't have the spectre of him leaving if the offense is successful hanging over the team

I think people are putting too much emphasis on McDaniels being a good hire because he'll never be a head coach again, so we don't have to worry about him leaving. If the coordinator runs a good system and gets Maye and the offense where we all hope it can go, it's a good thing if the coordinator draws interest from other teams. At that point, you would hope other people in your coaching pipeline can step in and supplant the coordinator.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

As a side note.... I hope they keep Springer. The ST was excellent this year, no reason to move on.

The blocking on punting and field goals was pretty bad, especially the first half of the year. Whether it’s coaching or personnel, it was ugly and it cost them against Seattle and they almost had a couple punts blocked

Coverage teams seemed fine, and Jones is a good punt returner (not sure Id credit Springer for that though)

Keeping him for continuity or replacing him, I don’t think it matters too much

 

[NextBigThing8184]

I think people are putting too much emphasis on McDaniels being a good hire because he'll never be a head coach again, so we don't have to worry about him leaving. If the coordinator runs a good system and gets Maye and the offense where we all hope it can go, it's a good thing if the coordinator draws interest from other teams. At that point, you would hope other people in your coaching pipeline can step in and supplant the coordinator.

Developing that pipeline takes time though and there’s no guarantee the next man up is as successful. Look at Covington being the next man up for Steve Belichick (or Mayo being the next man up as head coach)

Continuity between Maye and his next direct coach is important and should be a pretty big factor in the hire

 

[Cellar-Door]

I think people are putting too much emphasis on McDaniels being a good hire because he'll never be a head coach again, so we don't have to worry about him leaving. If the coordinator runs a good system and gets Maye and the offense where we all hope it can go, it's a good thing if the coordinator draws interest from other teams. At that point, you would hope other people in your coaching pipeline can step in and supplant the coordinator.

yeah it's a tiebreaker. Like do we think the Lions regret hiring Johnson over Bill O'Brien for example...

At the end of the day, if you want continuity on offense you do it with your HC, if not, you take the best OC you can and hope he stays, if he doesn't... well at least you got a great year of development (because any NEP OC that gets hired after 1 year, it'll be because Maye took the leap.)

 

[Auger34]

I think people are putting too much emphasis on McDaniels being a good hire because he'll never be a head coach again, so we don't have to worry about him leaving. If the coordinator runs a good system and gets Maye and the offense where we all hope it can go, it's a good thing if the coordinator draws interest from other teams. At that point, you would hope other people in your coaching pipeline can step in and supplant the coordinator.

I think it’s an ancillary benefit not a main draw.

None of what you’re saying is wrong but if McDaniels is thought of as the best candidate then it’s a nice bonus.

To kind of cut through this, I think McDaniels is already a top candidate for the position. He has familiarity with New England and, if the reporting is to be believed, Vrabel. He was a very good OC for a number of years.
The fact that he likely will never get a shot at being a head coach again is just a cherry on top.

 

[NomarsFool]

As a side note.... I hope they keep Springer. The ST was excellent this year, no reason to move on.

Yes. Hard to know what is coaching vs. personell, but ST seemed to be the one unit that performed consistently well.

 

[brendan f]

One candidate Reis mentioned was Dave Ragone. He could be an interesting hire as he is currently the Rams QB coach and also served as Falcons OC for three seasons under Arthur Smith, who was the OC under Vrabel. It's not clear how much input he had in Atlanta as OC since Smith was calling their plays but he does technically have the experience.

I'd rather have Caley (or pipedream, LaFleur) but could be a third name to add from the Rams.

 

[Auger34]

One candidate Reis mentioned was Dave Ragone. He could be an interesting hire as he is currently the Rams QB coach and also served as Falcons OC for three seasons under Arthur Smith, who was the OC under Vrabel. It's not clear how much input he had in Atlanta as OC since Smith was calling their plays but he does technically have the experience.

I'd rather have Caley (or pipedream, LaFleur) but could be a third name to add from the Rams.

I remember Ragone from Louisville. Didn't realize he was coaching now

 

[Patsfan1983]

I want nothing to do with Caley as OC. He feels worse than AVP. Like what has he done to be a OC other than be near McVay

 

[Mugsy’s Walk-Off Bunt]

Being near McVay is nothing to sneeze at. My understanding is that Caley has done a really good job as passing game coordinator in LA, especially navigating the various injuries this season. Also, there's this, which I'm cross-posting from the WR thread:

Does anyone here know why Brian Hartline isn't getting talked about much as a potential WR coach/Offensive Asst option for the Patriots? I may have seen him on one list somewhere - Lazar? Barth? - but I'm just wondering if he's ever indicated a reluctance to leave Ohio State or if he's just considered too inexperienced to make the leap. The guy seems to be spitting out excellent playmaking WR after excellent playmaking WR from THE Ohio State University and I wouldn't mind finding out if his fairy dust is possibly transferable to One Patriot Place. Especially with Vrabel here now.

 

[BigJimEd]

Hartline would be a great addition but not sure he'd leave OSU for a WR coach position.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

Being near McVay is nothing to sneeze at. My understanding is that Caley has done a really good job as passing game coordinator in LA, especially navigating the various injuries this season. Also, there's this, which I'm cross-posting from the WR thread:

Does anyone here know why Brian Hartline isn't getting talked about much as a potential WR coach/Offensive Asst option for the Patriots? I may have seen him on one list somewhere - Lazar? Barth? - but I'm just wondering if he's ever indicated a reluctance to leave Ohio State or if he's just considered too inexperienced to make the leap. The guy seems to be spitting out excellent playmaking WR after excellent playmaking WR from THE Ohio State University and I wouldn't mind finding out if his fairy dust is possibly transferable to One Patriot Place. Especially with Vrabel here now.

Hartline is probably the very best WR scout/recruiter/talent identifier in the country. Ohio State would be insane to let him slip through their fingers.
He’s single handedly keeping that team relevant by pumping out high end WR endlessly. If the Pats could find a way to get him, it would be worth whatever they pay him.

Don’t see why he’d be interested though. I’m not aware of any connection to Vrabel beyond both being Ohio State alums.

My guess is he wants the full OC gig at Ohio State and isn’t interested in the NFL (yet?)

 

[Cellar-Door]

That we haven't heard about a single interview yet is...weird?
Klint Kubiak just had his second interview in SEA, so he's likely off the table if they don't talk to him soon. CIN has gone through a number of DC candidates.
This appears to be off to a much slower start than you'd like. Now that could mean Vrabel already knows who he wants, and it's a guy on a playoff team, so he's waiting until that guy shakes free, and given the criticism from the HC search isn't rushing to get Rooney interviews done right away. Could also be an indication that they are a little unclear where they want to go (or ownership is giving him a gentle push towards McDaniels).