Next Coordinators - who do you want?

Apr 24, 2019
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OC - Different Josh. The McCown kind. (EDIT to add: Mike LaFleur, the Rams OC. Basically just looking for a young, innovative offensive mind over retreads. Although I'm buoyed by the notion that Josh McDaniels has spent a lot of time this year meeting with various college and other NFL-based innovators.)

DC - Lou Anarumo
 
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Eddie Jurak

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Vrabel’s first choice for each.
I think that's a fair assumption.

I'd like to see McDaniels back as OC, though. I doubt he's getting another coaching offer anytime soon, so it would mean some stability for Maye.

For defense, probably someone good Vrabel worked with in Tennessee.
 

Cellar-Door

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I think that's a fair assumption.

I'd like to see McDaniels back as OC, though. I doubt he's getting another coaching offer anytime soon, so it would mean some stability for Maye.

For defense, probably someone good Vrabel worked with in Tennessee.
I do wonder if McDaniels is part of the deal as the Kraft's part... we bring you in, we add guys you want, we pay your ask.... we don't trust you on OC, so you take our guy who was probably on your long list anyway.
 

Mystic Merlin

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I do wonder if McDaniels is part of the deal as the Kraft's part... we bring you in, we add guys you want, we pay your ask.... we don't trust you on OC, so you take our guy who was probably on your long list anyway.
I also wonder if Vrabel may want stability at that spot, he knows as well as anyone how destabilizing an OC churn can be. Hitting OC hire after OC hire is unlikely.
 

E5 Yaz

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I also wonder if Vrabel may want stability at that spot, he knows as well as anyone how destabilizing an OC churn can be. Hitting OC hire after OC hire is unlikely.
Yep, and McDaniels isn't likely to get another shot at being a HC
 

Cellar-Door

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I also wonder if Vrabel may want stability at that spot, he knows as well as anyone how destabilizing an OC churn can be. Hitting OC hire after OC hire is unlikely.
Possible, just noticing that his name did not come up at all when people talked about Vrabel's other interviews (where guys like Rees did), only the Patriots.
 

Justthetippett

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Caley? Turned out to be good judgment turning it down last year. Another year with McVay...Ohio guy like Vrabel. Not the sexiest hire but could be in the conversation.
 

Cellar-Door

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lol wrong thread.

But I will say... I don't think a 1st time OC is the way to go with Vrabel
 

dynomite

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Anyway, Vrabel was smart enough to promote from within when he made Arthur Smith the OC with the Titans, but he also has more connections around the league now.

DC: Saleh is my dream, his defense was top 4 in yards each of the last 3 seasons. Maye will be growing an learning while we completely overhaul the OL and WR groups, I want veteran experience on this side of the ball to keep games competitive. I will say Evan Lazar raised an interesting concern there on Patriots Unfiltered: that Saleh runs Cover 3, and the Pats might not have great personnel to play this way, at least with their current LBs and a bleh DL (especially without Barmore), that has to get pressure with just the 4 guys up front. Still, I assume Saleh would try to poach some guys from the Jets if needed, and one way or the other make it work.

OC: Less conviction here. Josh McD made a Mac Jones-led offense into one of the best in the NFL in 2021, so if he comes back, I’ll be happy. 98.5 has a great, comprehensive list of all possible candidates based on Vrabel’s career from Pats to Chiefs to Ohio State to Titans and Cleveland: https://985thesportshub.com/2025/01/12/patriots-mike-vrabel-offense/

I’m interested in Mike LaFleur, Packer’s HC brother who is the Rams OC who doesn’t call plays. He wasn’t great as the Jets OC and got fired by Saleh, so that would either be awkward or good because they’re familiar? But either way, if he’s good enough for McVay, he’s good enough for me. And his Jets players seem to like him: https://nypost.com/2024/12/22/sports/jets-stars-reminisce-fondly-about-mike-lafleurs-stint-with-jets/
 

Caspir

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I want Saleh, personally. Thinking of him scheming a D with Gonzo, White and (hopefully) Abdul Carter is a great start.

For people saying Flores, is it just, “I’d pick him if I could have anybody,” or something more? I don’t think he’d make a lateral move to a worse team.

Offense, either Josh is great, McDaniels will offer more stability mid term.
 

jsinger121

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Will be interesting to see what Jim Schwartz contract is like with Cleveland because Vrabel had him in Tennessee.
 

j-man

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Will be interesting to see what Jim Schwartz contract is like with Cleveland because Vrabel had him in Tennessee.
all schwartz wants to do is biltz made denver look like the 2000 rams on off hire someone from the rams on off and the ex jets coach on def
 
Apr 24, 2019
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OC: Less conviction here. Josh McD made a Mac Jones-led offense into one of the best in the NFL in 2021, so if he comes back, I’ll be happy.
You're (edit: NOT) the first or even the fifth poster to mention this, and I really do get it - making ANYTHING out of the shit-storm that wound up being "Mac Jones, QB1" is an achievement and a reason for optimism. Having said that, I think we may want to consider retire this talking point, given the fact that Mac was a good, serviceable QB for about half a season. The last several games of his rookie season foretold what he would ultimately become. Sure, he had a game or two where he popped, but mostly that second half of his rookier campaign looked a lot like the rest of his uninspiring, undynamic career to this point, including the final years in N.E.
 

Cellar-Door

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You're (edit: NOT) the first or even the fifth poster to mention this, and I really do get it - making ANYTHING out of the shit-storm that wound up being "Mac Jones, QB1" is an achievement and a reason for optimism. Having said that, I think we may want to consider retire this talking point, given the fact that Mac was a good, serviceable QB for about half a season. The last several games of his rookie season foretold what he would ultimately become. Sure, he had a game or two where he popped, but mostly that second half of his rookier campaign looked a lot like the rest of his uninspiring, undynamic career to this point, including the final years in N.E.
He did a really nice job with Mac.... he also had a really good line and a lot of positive game scripts. Patriots had the 2nd best average starting position due to an elite defense that was 2nd in the league in takeaways. It was a bit of a smoke and mirrors season... he should get credit for a good amount of it... but I always kind of felt one reason he took the LV job was he knew it wasn't sustainable.
 

jasail

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I tend to follow the McDaniels/Saleh school of thought. McDaniels is a known commodity, he's at worst competent, he made Mac Jones near stud, and he's not going anywhere anytime soon. Surrounding Maye with stability and competence is critical for the near term success of this team. I'd also be stoked about the other Josh, who I think may be potentially be the better coordinator but a more significant flight risk. After that, I'd take AVP back and consider Staley (who I think stays put). Ultimately, I think the Pats job is a good one for an OC because of the QB situation.

I like Saleh for the same reasons that I like McDaniels. He's a known quantity that brings stability and respectability back to the program. Ultimately, I think he goes back to the 9ers. I worry the Pats end up stuck in a bit of a no man's land here. Whereas the OC job let's you build around Maye, the defense is in shambles and is probably not that attractive an up-and-coming coach. I don't anticipate fireworks here.
 

DJnVa

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Whereas the OC job let's you build around Maye, the defense is in shambles and is probably not that attractive an up-and-coming coach. I don't anticipate fireworks here.
One might like getting to build around Gonzo, White, Barmore, and maybe Abdul Carter.
 

Laser Show

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One might like getting to build around Gonzo, White, Barmore, and maybe Abdul Carter.
Purely speculation on my end but I would not count on Barmore. If he actually had blood clot recurrence that could be career threatening.
 

JoeSuit

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I always like Josh McOffense’s play calling. For entertainment purposes, how about Matty Pat as DC? Heads would explode!
 
Oct 12, 2023
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One might like getting to build around Gonzo, White, Barmore, and maybe Abdul Carter.
so one building block

one mediocre inconsistent guy

one guy who will possibly (probably?) have to retire

One guy who may or may not make it to the Pats pick and may or may not even be on their radar

Not seeing that as appealing
 

Patsfan1983

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so one building block

one mediocre inconsistent guy

one guy who will possibly (probably?) have to retire

One guy who may or may not make it to the Pats pick and may or may not even be on their radar

Not seeing that as appealing
Are you ever positive like ever? Every post is negative and down.....geez
 
Oct 12, 2023
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Are you ever positive like ever? Every post is negative and down.....geez
is anything I posted there untrue?

White is closer to JAG than a cornerstone

Barmore has a serious medical condition that very well could cause him to retire

There’s no guarantee Carter will make it to 4 or be the Pats preferred option.

That’s hardly glass half empty. It’s just a realistic assessment of the facts here.

If you have reason to think White is an appealing cornerstone or that Barmore definitely will (or is likely to) continue to play, please share those details
 

Auger34

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I like McD as OC. He’s good with QBs and he’s probably burned his chances as a head coach so there should be multi-year stability
 

nattysez

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My preference would be an established OC and DC who then hire young hotshot lieutenants who can replace them when the OC and DC become HC elsewhere. We've seen what happens when you hire first-timers at coordinator positions in a new regime. Let's not do that again.
 

jasail

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One might like getting to build around Gonzo, White, Barmore, and maybe Abdul Carter.
I don’t understand how you can objectively look at this defense and come to that conclusion. After Gonzo, Peppers is probably their best player. White is a JAG. Barmore, if healthy, is a good lineman, but he isn’t Richard Seymour. DL depth beyond that is terrible. The LB corps is putrid. They don’t have a second corner. Marcus Jones flashes in the slot. They don’t have a coverage safety. Dugger is a poor man’s Peppers and Marte is a broke man’s Dugger.

At best they have ~ four guys goodish players on that side of the ball, and three come with caveats, and two of them play the same position.
 

trekfan55

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I would like Josh and Saleh and O'Shea as receivers coach. Keep Springer.
Saleh had an interview with the 49ers. Would he opt for the Pats instead? Not sure, but then again, the Niners may "go in another direction"
 

jercra

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All I know is that if they don't interview at least 8 people for OC and DC then process a failure.

I actually think an established DC is more important than an established OC. The offense has to be built from the ground up, minus the obvious, so it's a great opportunity for some innovation and new concepts. The D fell off a cliff last year but is not that far from serviceable with smart Xs and Os and a good defensive mind at HC.
 

Justthetippett

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I don’t understand how you can objectively look at this defense and come to that conclusion. After Gonzo, Peppers is probably their best player. White is a JAG. Barmore, if healthy, is a good lineman, but he isn’t Richard Seymour. DL depth beyond that is terrible. The LB corps is putrid. They don’t have a second corner. Marcus Jones flashes in the slot. They don’t have a coverage safety. Dugger is a poor man’s Peppers and Marte is a broke man’s Dugger.

At best they have ~ four guys goodish players on that side of the ball, and three come with caveats, and two of them play the same position.
So...blank canvas?

I don't think coaches make a ton of decisions based on personnel, aside from a few marquis defensive players and QBs. Turns over very quickly. It's about timing, org, staff, relationships, where they want to live, how much they are wanted ($), etc. Yeah, coaching the Philly D or whatever is better now, but there's also pressure that comes with that. Bringing the Pats D back to mere competence, or showing improvement, makes the DC look good. The worst scenario would be a cap-strapped franchise with old and expensive players. Pats don't have that problem.
 

dynomite

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You're (edit: NOT) the first or even the fifth poster to mention this, and I really do get it - making ANYTHING out of the shit-storm that wound up being "Mac Jones, QB1" is an achievement and a reason for optimism. Having said that, I think we may want to consider retire this talking point, given the fact that Mac was a good, serviceable QB for about half a season. The last several games of his rookie season foretold what he would ultimately become. Sure, he had a game or two where he popped, but mostly that second half of his rookier campaign looked a lot like the rest of his uninspiring, undynamic career to this point, including the final years in N.E.
He did a really nice job with Mac.... he also had a really good line and a lot of positive game scripts. Patriots had the 2nd best average starting position due to an elite defense that was 2nd in the league in takeaways. It was a bit of a smoke and mirrors season... he should get credit for a good amount of it... but I always kind of felt one reason he took the LV job was he knew it wasn't sustainable.
I guess I’m not sure what this means?

Josh McDaniels was OC when a Mac Jones offense scored the 6th most points in the NFL.
No matter who was on defense, no matter how the season ended, that is an impressive feat.
 

Greekca

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I would be a fan of Vrabel giving old friend Patrick Graham a look at defensive coordinator. I don’t think they overlapped in New England, but he has done a pretty good job everywhere he has been. He was Flores DC down in Miami, Judge in NY, and then McDaniels grabbed him for Vegas. I think he is looking for a HC shot, but he is sort of in limbo now with the Raiders also conducting a search. Maybe he would view some stability under Vrabel as a good place to continue to build his HC profile.
 

Eddie Jurak

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He did a really nice job with Mac.... he also had a really good line and a lot of positive game scripts. Patriots had the 2nd best average starting position due to an elite defense that was 2nd in the league in takeaways. It was a bit of a smoke and mirrors season... he should get credit for a good amount of it... but I always kind of felt one reason he took the LV job was he knew it wasn't sustainable.
One thing I've been thinking about in relation to McDaniels... what did Mac actually do well? Obviously, mobility and arm strength were big minuses for him. I also don't think he had pinpoint accuracy. I think Drake Maye makes better throws on screens and into the flat (he locates the ball better and gives receivers more of a chance for YAC). Reportedly, Mac struggled with post-snap reading of defenses. Where I would say Mac seemed to be good was in pre-snap reads and adjustments at the line, which maybe explains part of why he worked well with Josh McD but struggled as soon as Matt P came in and took a lot of that stuff out.

I like McD as OC. He’s good with QBs and he’s probably burned his chances as a head coach so there should be multi-year stability
Exactly. Obviously most of Josh's OC success came with Brady, and Brady's breakout came when the team added Moss and Welker. But as OC, Josh has also worked well with Matt Cassel, Jimmy Garoppolo, Jacoby Brissett, armless Cam Newton, and Mac Jones. Bedard was on this, too.

I don’t understand how you can objectively look at this defense and come to that conclusion. After Gonzo, Peppers is probably their best player. White is a JAG. Barmore, if healthy, is a good lineman, but he isn’t Richard Seymour. DL depth beyond that is terrible. The LB corps is putrid. They don’t have a second corner. Marcus Jones flashes in the slot. They don’t have a coverage safety. Dugger is a poor man’s Peppers and Marte is a broke man’s Dugger.

At best they have ~ four guys goodish players on that side of the ball, and three come with caveats, and two of them play the same position.
Barmore may never play again. I do think White is more than a JAG, I think the whole defense suffered from terrible coching last year, including individual player skill work. I think the defense, including individual defensive players, is both quite a bit better than it showed last year while also being quite a bit worse than it showed the year before. I think competent coahcing will make a difference here, although the personnel situation is generally weak after Gonzalez.