New and Improved--Pablo Sandoval, 3B
- Thread starter Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat
- Start date
Everybody knows what the big "if" is though. I hope he has a 12 step eaters anonymous program that goes until October.
Less Allen Craig and more Jenny Craig?
(seriously, though, do people with eating disorders have sponsors similar to AA? If that's the right term for those to call when in crisis)
If he returns to 110+ OPS+ type season, that with Moreland take a big bite out of the Papi void. Figuratively speaking.
Or Hanley this year. Pete Abraham wrote approx 17291990348 articles last winter espousing the opinion that Hanley needed to be traded away regardless of the return. To Pete's credit he admitted in print this year he was completely wrong.
Kelly is going to join that club as well.
Panda is still only 30 and only a few years removed from being a very competent player on a championship team. We don't need him to be Evan Longoria. Just be Pablo Sandoval, circa 2014.
I might wish that Ben had never brought Sandoval to Boston, but I'm unabashedly rooting for Pablo's success now. He seemed like a fun character when he was healthy and playing well and I think that spirit would fit in very well in this Red Sox clubhouse. I do think he's the kind of guy who is capable of moving forward from his embarrassing first two years here and act like it never happened.
Kelly will never join that club as he came packaged with Allen Craig.
Also, Hanley will never be part of that club either until he plays a competent LF.
Word's still out on Sandoval. I'm skeptical.
Yeah, Porcello turned out to be good. One good move =/= Cherington is awesome.
Assume DD realizing Sandoval might be useful impacted decision to focus on pitching/Sale? Less interested in EE now? Or at least lessened leverage for EE's agent's talks with Boston?
It's just curious that this photo comes out riiight after the Sale deal. /conspiracytheory
It's just curious that this photo comes out riiight after the Sale deal. /conspiracytheory
I'm trying to figure out whether Adrian's Dome thinks it's Hanley that can only be a success if he goes back to LF or if it's Ben who would get the credit.
I don't know. I kind of made that up. Hopefully, there is enough water under the bridge after his successes with the Giants that he feels a real need to excel again.
I'm not getting my hopes up about Pablo. Of course I'll be rooting for him to do well but the cold blooded gambler in me passes on betting on him having some sort of transformational experience.
Here's to hoping.
On the plus side, this would be a fine year to give him a few months to figure it out. The rest of the team should be strong enough to give DD time to figure out a plan for an upgrade as needed.
Here's to hoping.
On the plus side, this would be a fine year to give him a few months to figure it out. The rest of the team should be strong enough to give DD time to figure out a plan for an upgrade as needed.
My quick analysis of your post suggests you have hurt feelings about Ben. It's a little weird, dude.
Didn't Sandoval pull the "best shape of his life" routine a couple of times in San Francisco, too, and then eat himself huge again once the season started?
I'm not sure of the exact timing of the photo, but it was definitely out for a day or two or three before the Sale trade.
Yes. It's called Overeaters Anonymous.bIt's real, and it does work for some people.
Yet a lot of other people here spent the winter pointing out how borderline ridiculous it was to call for Hanley's head before Pablo's, and that Hanley was a much better bounce back bet for us to begin with on offensive upside potential alone (at least once people got themselves past the somewhat stubborn notion imo that a guy who spent all those years playing SS couldn't possibly shift over to 1st, which was essentially a night and day difference from the previous LF experiment that was just serving to cloud a more rational evaluation at the time). Plus you had the smoking gun to a "this is where it all went wrong" argument with the shoulder injury.
Pablo came in with a lower overall ceiling (especially if one wasn't buying all in on his WAR total), and had all the bad body type warning signs for a decline/collapse on day 1 of that signing. We were just left hoping that it wasn't going to happen a few months into a 5 year deal. Then it did.....and here we are a year and a half latter.
Beyond a core wish to be optimistic on each, the two situations are really not all that similar imo. At the very least going out and getting a solid RHH who can also certainly serve as a full timer if needed has to be the last high priority on DD' winter agenda.
What came to mind was the guy that basically travelled with Josh Hamilton to keep him on the wagon. I'd hope that if Sandoval's issues approach that level, that some analogous measure is in place.
Ben signed him to be the LF, so Ben doesn't get credit for him playing well at 1B after failing miserably in the outfield.
Also, Joe Kelly a success? Really? The guy that failed miserably as a starting pitcher and might put up a respectable performance as a 6th inning reliever? The guy that cost us a formidable starting pitcher and came shipped with Allen Craig's contract? We're going to talk about that guy as a positive?
The amount of credit some here try to give Ben is outlandish, and frankly, saying something like "are you gonna suck?" is lazy bullshit posting, but I wouldn't expect anything better from Farrell's mistress.
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Allen Craig has been off the 40-man roster for a year or so. Why do I care about him? Does his salary even count against the LT? Assuming it still does, it's not so much that I would give back the Joe Kelly that we saw at the end of 2016.
It's lazy posting to ignore that Hanley was signed with the intention he would only be the LF for a year or that Joe Kelly showed signs of being an elite reliever last year with an entirely different pitch mix than he had as a starter.
Once we get some video we can know for sure he's not just holding his breath in or something.
Can someone remind me how good a defensive 3B Pablo was in SF? My recollection when he was signed here was that he was sneaky good. Not Beltre or even Mike Lowell, but better than WMB or X.
There seems to be a lot of weight (sorry, coundlt resist) given to the fact that some combo of weight and injury derailed his hitting, and thus much of the talk here has been focused on his bat. But whither his defense in this new, svelte, uninsured Panda?
There seems to be a lot of weight (sorry, coundlt resist) given to the fact that some combo of weight and injury derailed his hitting, and thus much of the talk here has been focused on his bat. But whither his defense in this new, svelte, uninsured Panda?
It doesn't appear that his offense tracks his weight closely if at all, but in 2011, a relatively slender Panda posted some very nice defensive numbers, the best of his career. Maybe we have that to look forward to.
Maybe at some point I'll put together the definitive Pablo Sandoval weight timeline, so we can run regressions against his wOBA and DRS.
Was he "relatively slender" in those days? My recollection is that he was a fat tub of shit during his prime years, slimmed down a bit during his last couple of years in San Francisco (when his production slipped), then ballooned again when he came to Boston (when both his offense and defense fell off a cliff). But ICBW.
This is why I need to put a timeline together.
With a hat tip to Getty Images (I hope this is okay), here he is in Cactus League play in 2011.
"My career had fallen into an abyss because I was so complacent with things that I had already accomplished," Sandoval said by phone in his first public comments since August. "I did not work hard in order to achieve more and to remain at the level of the player that I am and that I can be."
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/18236953/pando-sandoval-boston-red-sox-ready-start-my-baseball-career-all-again-shoulder-surgery
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/18236953/pando-sandoval-boston-red-sox-ready-start-my-baseball-career-all-again-shoulder-surgery
You can almost tell his weight by looking at his UZR/150 numbers:
2009 -5.7
2010 -0.5
2011 19.3
2012 1.4
2013 -6.3
2014 3.5
2015 -21.9
Besides the very good fielding year in 2011 that Nvalvo mentioned, Pablo was pretty good in 2014. Mike Krukow was even touting him for a gold glove, but he's a big homer of course. If he keeps the weight off, he can be good at third. Like I said in a previous post, I really hope he sees his career at a huge crossroads and decides to stay in good shape for him or that could be it for his career.
2009 -5.7
2010 -0.5
2011 19.3
2012 1.4
2013 -6.3
2014 3.5
2015 -21.9
Besides the very good fielding year in 2011 that Nvalvo mentioned, Pablo was pretty good in 2014. Mike Krukow was even touting him for a gold glove, but he's a big homer of course. If he keeps the weight off, he can be good at third. Like I said in a previous post, I really hope he sees his career at a huge crossroads and decides to stay in good shape for him or that could be it for his career.
"...from a secret detention facility somewhere in the remote North Korean hills."
I mean, wow, that's almost too contrite. But we'll take it. Let the healing begin!
This is climate change in reverse. Instead of spring coming later it comes early. the BSOTL stories usually come out in January.
This is probably the first thing I've heard from Pablo that makes me think maybe he can rebound. Proof will be in the pudding but it sounds like he is getting real with himself and others.
I think what Sandoval is going through is what many pro athletes go through (the ages are different for each sport of course). But for baseball it seems like before 30, a player can get away with minimal training and his "natural talent" will keep him playing at an acceptable level. But if they dont change their routines, they will have issues. Even Pedroia, as one example, changed up his off season routine in some acknowledgement of age.
You couldn't help yourself, could you?
Good statement. Maybe Pablo can teach Price a thing or two.
Not sure what you mean, but this kind of thing, while it doesn't bother me directly, isn't productive when you are in the Boston media market:
For crissakes, THAT's what bugs you about Price? Honestly I think he's handling himself rather well. Would you rather have him winter in a warehouse in Poughkeepsie and think about his baseball sins?
Jesus. No wonder the rest of the country loathes us.
Price has already provided more value to the Sox in 1 year than Panda has in two, so in my humble opinion Price doesn't have a damn thing to learn from him. Yes, 2016 was down from his 2015, but Price put up 230 IP of pretty good pitching. Pablo broke a belt.
Jesus. No wonder the rest of the country loathes us.
Price has already provided more value to the Sox in 1 year than Panda has in two, so in my humble opinion Price doesn't have a damn thing to learn from him. Yes, 2016 was down from his 2015, but Price put up 230 IP of pretty good pitching. Pablo broke a belt.
I doubt it. Probably just minor league depth. I'm sure Dominguez probably sees Pablo as a pretty good bet to fall flat on his face again, at least relative to other third basemen around the league, and with the Moncada trade, has little competition for first call-up should it go that way. But I doubt Dombrowski sees him as a legitimate starting third baseman should Pablo be fully cooked.
I wonder what happened to Dominguez. At one time (2013, 2014) he was thought to be the future of 3B for the Astros. He showed some power (21, 16 hr) and actually had a better fielding percentage then the league average in 2014 (.972 / .956). The Astros then traded for Valbuena from CHC, Dominguez was released and he dropped off the face of the earth. Anyone know what happened? Had a short stint with TOR in 16, but that’s it.
He was awful in the time they gave him and he wasn't all that great in the minors. He kinda looks like the Astros version of Will Middlebrooks. He has no plate discipline, total hacker. Also, using fielding % is awful, but he did appear to be a pretty good defensive 3b.
edit: I guess calling him a hacker is unfair, he doesn't strike out too much but he also never walks.
Obviously this isn't a "best shape of his career" farce. He's lost a ton of weight, like, a ton. Probably 30-40 pounds.
Whether that translates to the field? Time will tell.