NBA trade season
- Thread starter Devizier
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I'm not sure how great a fit he would have been. Great shot-blocking and a stretch 4, both of which help, but not really a rebounder.
both picks will likely be close to one another. not a bad return on Ibaka. Obviously that trade looka horrible, but at least they cut their losses and got some value in return.
Replacing some of Sully/Nogueria's minutes with Ibaka is huge for Toronto, but losing Ross hurts their bench. Good thing they're 4 GB because I think it helps them overall.
No, but I think Millsap is a much better overall player than Ibaka is. Either way Valanciunas and Ibaka is a very solid frontcourt. And that's less minutes for Sullinger which is a plus.
I don't know if I've ever been more baffled by a plan than the one the magic have done the last two years.
The magic traded tobias Harris, oladipo, and sabonis for a half season each of Brandon Jennings and illysova, 50 games of ibaka and Terrance ross. And a pick In the 20s.
Plus the BB signing and Jeff Green deal (which is only 1 year but still)
2017 Bebe > 2017 Ibaka.
This moves helps, since Bebe can't play every minute, and Ibaka is still the better offensive player, but this doesn't look to be a big improvement to me. Maybe you can play them together when Valanciunas is off the court?
Plus wasted two thirds of a season of their best prospect playing out of position!
I'm starting to think that Bradley might be expendable. He is not the greatest fit with IT (defensively), a choice on Smart-IT-Bradley is looming, the apparent reluctance to include Rozier in potential rentals, and his salary is desirable - all make him a desirable commodity for the Celtics to move and for other teams to acquire. I could see him in move for someone like Vucevic (maybe not the best example)without losing a ton of flexibility to bring in another all-star.
Noel (and Stauskas for salary ballast) for Bradley is a good roster fit both ways and a fair trade.
Every team competing for a championship needs a player like Bradley. Inevitably a team needs defensive stops in a half court game. Even better if he can shoot a jumper. Thomas is NOT that player. If you think the Celtics won't be competitive fast enough to utilize Bradley's elite defensive skillset then it makes sense. Otherwise why trade a piece you will need?
I think the best use of Thomas in the playoffs will end up being the microwave/instant offense/6th man role on a competitive team. But I admit I am biased against him though.
Talks for Ibaka stalled over Terry Rozier:
http://www.celticsblog.com/2017/2/14/14611328/source-celtics-orlando-magic-trade-talks-over-serge-ibaka-stalled-out-terry-rozier-toronto-raptors
http://www.celticsblog.com/2017/2/14/14611328/source-celtics-orlando-magic-trade-talks-over-serge-ibaka-stalled-out-terry-rozier-toronto-raptors
I think this has the chance to be a really good move by the Raptors. If the narrative that Orlando's dysfuntion held Ibaka back holds up, then Toronto is getting a difference maker big.. however they're now relying on Powell and Joseph to give them more minutes. I wonder if they try to flip Poetl or Burno for another guard?
Ibaka is scoring at one the most efficient rates of his career (taking and making more 3p and having a great season at the line) which is good. However his rebounding is just above last year's career lows and his blocks are at career lows however you measure it. Defensively, whether you use DBPM or DRTG, he is having his worst season though I suspect you can chalk some of that up to Orlando's overall weakness and usage. Its worth reiterating (someone mentioned this upthread) that though Ibaka "turned 27" this past fall, many of his stats have shown a decline over the past three or four years - supporting a completely unsubstantiated theory circulating among NBA-heads that he is actually a fair bit older than an age at which he should be peaking.
This isn't to say that Ibaka won't help Toronto but he is clearly in a decline phase and some of the skills Toronto acquired him for aren't coming as easily as they once did. I don't know that this is such a clear-cut win for the Raptors.
This isn't to say that Ibaka won't help Toronto but he is clearly in a decline phase and some of the skills Toronto acquired him for aren't coming as easily as they once did. I don't know that this is such a clear-cut win for the Raptors.
someone tell Masai Ujiri before he hands Ibaka that big contract this summer
I watch the Raps a lot and Ross has gone from infuriating to valuable. As a starter his poor decision making and inconsistency were maddening. Add to that the Raps pbp guy still has a crush on Ross. But the current coaching staff have him in a role he does well. I expect Ross may be less valuable in an expanded role.
Closest thing you'd find to that is probably Ricky Pierce. 23.0ppg in in 29mpg off the bench in 89-90 on a 44-38 Bucks team.
Detroit rumored to have check the temperature on a Drummond trade.
Highly doubtful he would be moved. But he would be one of the few players in the league who could command the 2017 Nets pick, but Stan Van doesn't want to rebuild I am sure.
Drummond still can't shoot free throws, but man would he get a lot of rebounds for the Cs and round out the rotation well with what we have. (If he could be had for future assets alone, which he wouldn't be available for.)
Highly doubtful he would be moved. But he would be one of the few players in the league who could command the 2017 Nets pick, but Stan Van doesn't want to rebuild I am sure.
Drummond still can't shoot free throws, but man would he get a lot of rebounds for the Cs and round out the rotation well with what we have. (If he could be had for future assets alone, which he wouldn't be available for.)
Ibaka's impact is going to depend heavily on how they manage Patterson's minutes. If they find enough minutes for Patterson, I'm onboard with this move. If Ibaka's minutes come at the expense of Patterson, I'm not sure the upgrade is substantial enough to move the needle a ton.
I think RR is largely spot on though I would argue that the Cs are a break or a transformational trade away from getting out of the ECF. Yes Cleveland is daunting even without Love but LeBron is playing the second most minutes in the NBA and this number won't decline anytime soon given Loves absence. This is not conducive to a healthy, well rested set up for the playoffs. So the Cs have a punchers chance of making it out of the East.
That said, nobody is beating the Warriors and the points made earlier about Thomas' liabilities being magnified in the playoffs are valid.
As such, Danny should only make a move if a transformational player somehow becomes available and even then he should be cautious given that two of the three candidates most often mentioned aren't a clear fit on their current roster and may age out before the Cs get to championship contender status.
That said, nobody is beating the Warriors and the points made earlier about Thomas' liabilities being magnified in the playoffs are valid.
As such, Danny should only make a move if a transformational player somehow becomes available and even then he should be cautious given that two of the three candidates most often mentioned aren't a clear fit on their current roster and may age out before the Cs get to championship contender status.
There have been so few precedents for a player like Thomas (Calvin Murphy? Allen Iverson?) that it's hard to draw any meaningful historical comparisons. Thomas has obvious weaknesses but Avery Johnson (to use an example) was an essential component of the first Spurs title team. It helped to have Duncan and Robinson, but still...
So you're saying that Danny should sit tight unless Paul George becomes available? I somewhat agree. However, if they can get a big man that can take up space and rebound they should do that.
If that big man is Andrew Bogut, then no. The guy cannot stay on the court. The fact is that there are very few big man candidates out there who are worth the cost.
And you have Zizic coming over for next season. I do agree with RedOctober that if there is a rental defensive/rebounding big man who can be had for the figurative bag of basketballs then I'd go for it but you're right outside of Bogut I don't think there is anyone like that on the market. Maybe Tyson Chandler but he'd probably cost more.
With so many draft picks, I am including Yabusele and Zizic here, it is somewhat wasting a selection like the Boston 2018 first rounder by not trading it when you can use it to improve the team this year attempting at making a better run.
Danny and Brad may just value other things, in the course of a game, much more than a rebounding big they can go out and get. Even with that, now is the time to cash in some of the lesser chips if they can, but other teams know this as well, but maybe that pick is used to get a 6th man type player.
If nothing else, just before deadline time I hope Danny is talking to teams who overvalued their expiring players up until that point and he can use that pick for a piece that can help this year. That may be what he will have to hold out for if it is a small move.
We can be 99% sure that any team that Danny is offering that 2018 Celtics first round pick for will be saying "No thanks, we'll take Zizic or Yabusele though..."
Danny and Brad may just value other things, in the course of a game, much more than a rebounding big they can go out and get. Even with that, now is the time to cash in some of the lesser chips if they can, but other teams know this as well, but maybe that pick is used to get a 6th man type player.
If nothing else, just before deadline time I hope Danny is talking to teams who overvalued their expiring players up until that point and he can use that pick for a piece that can help this year. That may be what he will have to hold out for if it is a small move.
We can be 99% sure that any team that Danny is offering that 2018 Celtics first round pick for will be saying "No thanks, we'll take Zizic or Yabusele though..."
I wonder if the fact that Ainge wouldn't part with Rozier means that (1) Ainge is really high on Rozier, (2) Ainge doesn't think Ibaka can get them over the hump, or (3) Ainge doesn't think Ibaka is worth Rozier and a future first.
Obviously it could be some combination of all 3.
Given that the odds are that the Cs are drafting a guard next year and there's not a ton of minutes for Rozier when everyone is healthy and they Jackson at D league who reminds me of Rozier a lot and Ibaka seems like a clear upgrade over at least JJ, and getting Ibaka would keep him off the Raptors, it seems that most GMs not named Ainge would probably have made the trade.
Toronto had the inside track anyway since the C's couldn't offer a 2017 first. For all we know the asking price for Boston could have been 2018 first and Rozier+ another useful piece.
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It might not even matter if they can rebound. Protect the rim for IT's deficiencies and be able to space the floor on offence with an outside shot - that's still worth acquiring.
I'm not sure how many floor stretching rim protectors exist in the NBA let alone are currently on the trade block.
Not many. Two guys I would be looking at are Nikola Mirotic and Al Farouq Aminu. Both are decent rebounders. Both have been terrible from beyond the arc this year but were nearly 40% last year. And both are on losing teams with high payrolls, so an expiring deal like Zeller's plus a non-Brooklyn pick (or picks) might be attractive.
As for Ibaka, he looked absolutely terrible when the Celtics played the Magic a few weeks ago. Maybe he'll be rejuvenated in Toronto, but I doubt it.
Both of these guys and especially Mirotic are good from the three perspective but neither rebounds or rim protects that well.
One guy I would kick the tires on is Biyombo. Things may change with Ibaka gone but he has struggled to find a role in Orlando and I suspect everyone on their roster is available at reasonable prices. He cant hit a three but rebounds and rim protects decently.
The problem is that he wouldn't allow the Cs to stretch the floor but he would give them someone to patrol the middle and clean up for IT4. And assuming Bradley comes back at full strength, maybe that is enough.
As far as bench scoring goes, maybe explore moving Rozier plus for Lou Williams who is relatively cheap and widely rumored to be available.
SI looks at both sides of a Jimmy Butler possibility
http://www.si.com/nba/2017/02/15/boston-celtics-nba-trade-deadline-jimmy-butler-trade
http://www.si.com/nba/2017/02/15/boston-celtics-nba-trade-deadline-jimmy-butler-trade
One interesting thing is the article assumes the deal is simply Butler for the Nets pick. I'd expect it takes more than that, wouldn't others?
I think Sharp references the idea that one of Crowder, Bradley or Smart would be involved.
He also raises a valid concern - can Butler and IT4 play together? It doesn't mean that the Cs shouldn't acquire Butler if he is available at a reasonable orice but bad chemistry is absolutely a risk.
I assume the price for Butler will be one of the Brooklyn 1sts and a hodgepodge of second tier prospects (not smart or brown), from whoever Chicago likes best of other 1sts, 2nds, the 2 stash guys, rozier, young, mickey, etc. If it's any more than that I assume Ainge says no thanks, if it's any less than that no interest from Chicago. Also, if Chicago goes full rebuild mid-career guys like Crowder and Bradley should be more valuable to the Cs than Chicago, so I would hope for both sides they are not in the deal.
As for chemistry, apart from the obvious (it sometimes takes a full year of playing together for players to really click), Butler seems to hide Thomas' defensive deficiencies better than any other 2-guard on our roster due to his size and plus defensive game. On offense, Thomas and Butler are both adept enough at playing off the ball that it should be a net positive.
The deal makes a ton of sense for both sides. I think the only hold up is Chicago is in denial that they need to blow it up, which is why they acquired Rondo and Wade this offseason leading to the current dumpster fire.
As for chemistry, apart from the obvious (it sometimes takes a full year of playing together for players to really click), Butler seems to hide Thomas' defensive deficiencies better than any other 2-guard on our roster due to his size and plus defensive game. On offense, Thomas and Butler are both adept enough at playing off the ball that it should be a net positive.
The deal makes a ton of sense for both sides. I think the only hold up is Chicago is in denial that they need to blow it up, which is why they acquired Rondo and Wade this offseason leading to the current dumpster fire.
The other obvious hold-up is the valuation of this year's Brooklyn pick. There's no smart reason for Chicago to make a deal now, unless they can get more, rather than wait to see where the lottery balls fall.
Well, I think that CHI could get the 2017 pick now, I don't think they can get in in June if it is in fact the #1
Sure there is. Part of Butler's value is helping win this year, and that goes away if they wait. I can easily see Boston wanting to do he deal now but saying no if they are holding the first or second pick on draft day.
There are several players in this year's draft who, in two years, could be better than Butler will ever be. Patience. The Celtics have won 11 out of 12 without Bradley. The incremental improvement Butler might bring isn't worth passing on Ball, Fultz or Jackson.
There is like a 99% chance that in two years time nobody will be anywhere near as close to as good as Butler is right now.
I am not advocating trading the pick for him, but how many times in recent memory has a sophomore NBA player been a top 10 player in the league?
I am not advocating trading the pick for him, but how many times in recent memory has a sophomore NBA player been a top 10 player in the league?
Butler isn't a top 10 player in the league. There are at least 5 guys at his position who are better: Leonard, George, Durant, Giannis and Thompson. You can also make a pretty good case for guys like Hayward and DeRozan.
If Butler wants to play in Boston he can audition tonight with Smart and Crowder guarding him.
If Butler wants to play in Boston he can audition tonight with Smart and Crowder guarding him.