NBA trade season

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Sad to hear. One of the truly great players in the game, and doesn't get nearly the hype of many others.
The same "CP3" who has been to ten straight Allstar games, has been in the top seven for MVP voting over the past nine seasons, was part of the most infamous non-trades in NBA history, and is considered to have some of the best handles in the game? The same guy who bullied DeAndre Jordan into backing out of a verbal agreement with Dallas after his bullying convinced Jordan to explore free agency in the first place? The same Chris Paul been featured as a long-running pitch-man for Nike and State Farm? The same dude who was the patriarch of The Hooper clan and now commands Damian Lillard to crash the glass and Jordan to guard the paint?
 

E5 Yaz

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The same "CP3" who has been to ten straight Allstar games, has been in the top seven for MVP voting over the past nine seasons, was part of the most infamous non-trades in NBA history, and is considered to have some of the best handles in the game? The same guy who bullied DeAndre Jordan into backing out of a verbal agreement with Dallas after his bullying convinced Jordan to explore free agency in the first place? The same Chris Paul been featured as a long-running pitch-man for Nike and State Farm? The same dude who was the patriarch of The Hooper clan and now commands Damian Lillard to crash the glass and Jordan to guard the paint?
No ... the other one
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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The same "CP3" who has been to ten straight Allstar games, has been in the top seven for MVP voting over the past nine seasons, was part of the most infamous non-trades in NBA history, and is considered to have some of the best handles in the game? The same guy who bullied DeAndre Jordan into backing out of a verbal agreement with Dallas after his bullying convinced Jordan to explore free agency in the first place? The same Chris Paul been featured as a long-running pitch-man for Nike and State Farm? The same dude who was the patriarch of The Hooper clan and now commands Damian Lillard to crash the glass and Jordan to guard the paint?
Yeah, but he doesn't own the paint.
 

the1andonly3003

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Blowing up a team that is on a 55 win pace doesn't make much sense to me. They have the 6th best record in the league.
I feel like they are the Toronto Raptors of the west - they are close, but won't surpass the top team in the conference

how likely do you think CP3 and Blake will stay past this season, or decide not to opt out and play out their contracts?
 

mcpickl

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I feel like they are the Toronto Raptors of the west - they are close, but won't surpass the top team in the conference

how likely do you think CP3 and Blake will stay past this season, or decide not to opt out and play out their contracts?
Highly likely they re-sign there.

Blowing that team up is a crazy idea unless one of those guys wants to leave.
 

NoXInNixon

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Even if the Clippers aren't good enough to win a championship, there is tremendous long term value for them in being the best team in the city. They want to maximize the amount of time they are a playoff team and the Lakers aren't so they can build up whatever fan loyalty they can.
 

ElUno20

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Even if the Clippers aren't good enough to win a championship, there is tremendous long term value for them in being the best team in the city. They want to maximize the amount of time they are a playoff team and the Lakers aren't so they can build up whatever fan loyalty they can.
Exactly. People are completely fucking lost when it comes to the break up the clippers talk.

1. Unless they are trading for LeBron, Steph, Klay, Durant or the klaw, it doesn't matter.

2. The clippers base has endured a mass amount of losing. I would honestly sign up for another 5 years of 50-55 win seasons and playoff trips right now. It gives me a good product on TV for 6 months of the year on any given Tuesday or Wednesday.

3. see number 1 and read it over and over like a million times
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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Guess it depends on how much you like guards who can't shoot for shit.
And defense and court vision.

Edit: Just to add to this, to avoid too many one line responses. . .

Rubio has been close to elite for the last 4 years in terms of RPM. He gets a lot of grief, and ends up substantially underrated because of his shooting, but he is an elite defender, and that's valuable in a league that's as point guard heavy as the current NBA.

Meanwhile, Reggie Jackson's a solid but unspectacular shoot first point guard. The Pistons are better this season with Ish Smith on the floor than they are with Jackson, and the way he runs their offense tends to minimize the impact of players like Caldwell-Pope and Tobias Harris. Jackson's +/- on the year is a pretty astounding -97 on a team that's at -0.7 on the season. The Wolves would be getting a one dimensional player on a worse, longer contract.
 
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JCizzle

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With Chicago reallllyyy tailing off and DWade looking like he wants out already, what are they likely to get for Butler if he hits the market? What is the upgrade from Crowder -> Butler worth? 1 BKN + Jae? More than that?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Yes more.
Butler is a top 10 player.
Given the nets position and the potential of the draft I'm not sure I'd give Chicago what they would need.
They aren't trading Butler with the new CBA but really? I would figure you, of all people, would be wary of teams that are always chasing shiny new things in terms of college prospects.

Once again, if the C's are going to improve through the draft, the current crop of Celtics not named Smart or Brown are the only ones that stand a chance of playing on a true championship contender. It will take three to five years for just about any draftee to pan out and by then this current C's core will be mostly gone. If you can acquire a Butler you strongly consider it even if it costs you not just the Minnesota pick but others and players. This is why Ainge worked so hard to acquire those assets in the first place.
 

Cellar-Door

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With Chicago reallllyyy tailing off and DWade looking like he wants out already, what are they likely to get for Butler if he hits the market? What is the upgrade from Crowder -> Butler worth? 1 BKN + Jae? More than that?
Much more.
Probably the bidding starts at Crowder 2018 BKN and one of the starting guards (IT or Bradley). Or Brown.
 

JCizzle

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Much more.
Probably the bidding starts at Crowder 2018 BKN and one of the starting guards (IT or Bradley). Or Brown.
Say it's Avery, you'd have a core of:

IT
Marcus
Rozier
Butler
Jalen
Horford
Kelly
Amir, Jonas, etc.

Next year: 2017 BKN, Zizic, Yabusele

I'm not sure that roster is good enough to make enough short-term noise at the expense of the pick, but it would be intriguing.
 

LondonSox

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I'm not sure why especially me. But anyway.

I'm saying if I were Chicago what I would want for Butler is not something I'd give up I were the Celtics.

If they sell low, of course. Do it. The chance any pick is as good as Butler is low.

One question for the Celtics is do they want to win now or hedge and know that brown (I'm not a huge fan but regardless) plus two high lottery picks plus what is left from the current core is coming. But that means unlikely to win a title now though.

However, given the cavs and warriors. Is going good for it now sensible? It's interesting the Celtics can go for it now or even delay. They seem so far to be trying to be good now and later. But that might make a good not great team for a long time.
 

nighthob

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Much more.
Probably the bidding starts at Crowder 2018 BKN and one of the starting guards (IT or Bradley). Or Brown.
I keep saying this, Butler has a reputation for being a locker room asshole, Boston won't be including his BFF in any Butler trade as you sort of need him to mediate things. It's more likely to start at Lil' Zeke and the 2018 Nets pick (given that they can replace Thomas' PG minutes with Smart/2017 draftee) and go from there (I'm guessing that Brown would be the other major piece).
 

the moops

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I think that there is just slightly more than zero chance you are getting Jimmy Butler without including the 2017 pick. I suppose a Thomas, Brown, 2018 gets you close, but I can't see Boston doing that at this juncture.
 

cheech13

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Zach Lowe said on his podcast that they weren't trading Butler but that if the Celtics offered this year's Brooklyn pick, Marcus Smart and Jae Crowder they'd at least think about it.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Ainge's hasn't been saving up for Jimmy Butler, who doesn't get you where you need to be. He's been saving up for two Jimmy Butlers or one Anthony Davis.

Unfortunately, because of the collection of assets Boston has and the leaguewide desire not to get swindled by Ainge, there's likely to be little to no functional difference between the asking price for one Anthony Davis and the price for one Jimmy Butler, even if assets at this level have historically been enough to get two Jimmy Butlers.

I'd be surprised, for example, if the offer listed above by cheech is enough. They'd be asking for a minimum of two of the Brooklyn assets and would only relent if they became truly desperate to move him.
 

JCizzle

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I'm not sure why especially me. But anyway.

I'm saying if I were Chicago what I would want for Butler is not something I'd give up I were the Celtics.

If they sell low, of course. Do it. The chance any pick is as good as Butler is low.

One question for the Celtics is do they want to win now or hedge and know that brown (I'm not a huge fan but regardless) plus two high lottery picks plus what is left from the current core is coming. But that means unlikely to win a title now though.

However, given the cavs and warriors. Is going good for it now sensible? It's interesting the Celtics can go for it now or even delay. They seem so far to be trying to be good now and later. But that might make a good not great team for a long time.
This is where I'm at too, but he seems to be the most likely guy that is going to be discussed at the deadline. As others have said, I'm more inclined to keep the picks and build for 2-3 years down the road in the hopes of competing when GSW/Cavs age out.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Ainge's hasn't been saving up for Jimmy Butler, who doesn't get you where you need to be. He's been saving up for two Jimmy Butlers or one Anthony Davis.

Unfortunately, because of the collection of assets Boston has and the leaguewide desire not to get swindled by Ainge, there's likely to be little to no functional difference between the asking price for one Anthony Davis and the price for one Jimmy Butler, even if assets at this level have historically been enough to get two Jimmy Butlers.

I'd be surprised, for example, if the offer listed above by cheech is enough. They'd be asking for a minimum of two of the Brooklyn assets and would only relent if they became truly desperate to move him.
I think you are underrating Jimmy Butler. The reason the price would be relatively the same is because there are maybe 10 players in the game better than him. Once you start talking about the best players in the game, I'm guessing they all have close to the same trade value.
 

Devizier

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The Spurs have one obvious weakness... point guard.

Would Pop et al. be cold blooded enough to make a trade for a new starter?
 

the moops

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The Spurs have one obvious weakness... point guard.

Would Pop et al. be cold blooded enough to make a trade for a new starter?
Tony Parker + Patty Mills are putting up 21.5 pts and 8.3 assts, while both shooting over 40% from three point land.

That is not a weakness. Not in the slightest.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Tony Parker + Patty Mills are putting up 21.5 pts and 8.3 assts, while both shooting over 40% from three point land.

That is not a weakness. Not in the slightest.
My draft binkie Dejounte Murray has been starting at the 1 over Mills in Parker's absence the past two games. He scored 24 against Denver then put up 14/6 on a combined 14-21 from the field. This kid has just turned 20 and is going to be something special. He has all the physicals.....body strength and perimeter shooting will come in time.
 

Devizier

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Tony Parker + Patty Mills are putting up 21.5 pts and 8.3 assts, while both shooting over 40% from three point land.

That is not a weakness. Not in the slightest.
Mills has been solid and Murray looks promsing, but Parker was looking bad even before he was (officially) hurt.
 

Derek's Friend

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I saw yesterday that Kenneth Faried might be available. He seems to be putting up number consistent with his career but is playing about 4 minutes less a game. This seems like something I'd think the Celts would be interested in looking in to. They need a banger that can get them the boards they badly need. He's under contract for 3 years at 12 mil. per. I'm not sure what it would take to get him at this point. Denver seems to have a glut at that position. If they are only looking for draft picks you could send Kelly and Zeller and next year's #1. No idea if that even remotely gets it done. Anyone else have a clue?
 

TheDeuce222

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I saw yesterday that Kenneth Faried might be available. He seems to be putting up number consistent with his career but is playing about 4 minutes less a game. This seems like something I'd think the Celts would be interested in looking in to. They need a banger that can get them the boards they badly need. He's under contract for 3 years at 12 mil. per. I'm not sure what it would take to get him at this point. Denver seems to have a glut at that position. If they are only looking for draft picks you could send Kelly and Zeller and next year's #1. No idea if that even remotely gets it done. Anyone else have a clue?
Don't see him being available, and don't see it making sense for the Celtics even in the event that he were obtainable. Faried has long been rumored to be available, but the Nuggets have recently scrapped the Nurkic/Jokic pairing and gone to a more traditional lineup utilizing (the criminally underrated and emerging) Jokic at Center with Faried or one of their smaller forwards at 4. The issue with taking on Faried's contract is that it would destroy the Celtics' ability to open up max space this summer, which I don't think that Ainge is going to be willing to do unless he's able to obtain a top-20 type player. Expiring bigs or guys on rookie deals that don't hurt future flexibility make far more sense.

Nurkic has been mostly benched and is reportedly widely available while Denver wants to keep Faried, and could conceivably make sense for the Celtics.
 

Swedgin

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I saw yesterday that Kenneth Faried might be available. He seems to be putting up number consistent with his career but is playing about 4 minutes less a game. This seems like something I'd think the Celts would be interested in looking in to. They need a banger that can get them the boards they badly need. He's under contract for 3 years at 12 mil. per. I'm not sure what it would take to get him at this point. Denver seems to have a glut at that position. If they are only looking for draft picks you could send Kelly and Zeller and next year's #1. No idea if that even remotely gets it done. Anyone else have a clue?
Faried is the precisely the kind of deal Danny should (and I think will) avoid. Unless the player coming back is a star, keep the powder dry and maintain flexibility for this summer and beyond.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I saw yesterday that Kenneth Faried might be available. He seems to be putting up number consistent with his career but is playing about 4 minutes less a game. This seems like something I'd think the Celts would be interested in looking in to. They need a banger that can get them the boards they badly need. He's under contract for 3 years at 12 mil. per. I'm not sure what it would take to get him at this point. Denver seems to have a glut at that position. If they are only looking for draft picks you could send Kelly and Zeller and next year's #1. No idea if that even remotely gets it done. Anyone else have a clue?
It doesn't appear Ainge has any interest in either adding salary past this season to maintain flexibility this summer or in giving up any future assets for a potentially marginal gain this year. He's been viewing these past few seasons as Rebuild Plus rather than the Tanking version of 2007 when we sat Pierce for the last quarter of the season to secure as high a draft pick as possible. Every move he makes it to put together a Championship Team......Faried doesn't move the needle in this regard.
 

gammoseditor

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It doesn't appear Ainge has any interest in either adding salary past this season to maintain flexibility this summer or in giving up any future assets for a potentially marginal gain this year. He's been viewing these past few seasons as Rebuild Plus rather than the Tanking version of 2007 when we sat Pierce for the last quarter of the season to secure as high a draft pick as possible. Every move he makes it to put together a Championship Team......Faried doesn't move the needle in this regard.
Agree with all of this, but it's becoming less clear what the next move should be. There isn't a Durant to pitch this offseason. They are getting close to the point where they have more assets than guys they can play and there isn't an obvious guy to trade for. There's ways to make the team better but no clear path to the Cleveland/Golden State/San Antonio level.
 

Derek's Friend

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Agree with all of this, but it's becoming less clear what the next move should be. There isn't a Durant to pitch this offseason. They are getting close to the point where they have more assets than guys they can play and there isn't an obvious guy to trade for. There's ways to make the team better but no clear path to the Cleveland/Golden State/San Antonio level.
Beyond this they are changing the structure of free agency to make it much harder to sign top tier free agents away from their current teams. The Ringer said that for Steph Curry to leave GS he'd have to leave more than 75 Mil on the table. So either you luck out in the draft or you make trades. Maybe Faried isn't a blockbuster but he's a big part of what the Celts are lacking. Their offense seems to put up pretty good numbers at this point. They get killed by not being able to keep other teams from getting a ton of offensive rebounds. If there is another big rebounding guy out there that is cheaper then I'd go after him. Bogut is expiring and costs 11 mil. Could/Should they take a stab at him?
 

nighthob

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Agree with all of this, but it's becoming less clear what the next move should be. There isn't a Durant to pitch this offseason. They are getting close to the point where they have more assets than guys they can play and there isn't an obvious guy to trade for. There's ways to make the team better but no clear path to the Cleveland/Golden State/San Antonio level.
Aside from Durant, who's going to free agency. There's also one of Brad Stevens' former players on the market.
 

Big John

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Yeah, if you are going to take on that kind of salary, Tyson Chandler makes more sense than Faried. Obviously a big guy with an expiring deal (Bogut, Ibaka, Randolph, Millsap) makes the most sense if the price is not too high.

I don't see a clearcut path to the San Antonio level either, particularly given the new CBA. Probably the best long-term path is for Ainge to draft very well this year and next.

As for Gordon Hayward, even if he doesn't sign one of those new supermax veteran erxtensions and hits unrestricted free agency, the Jazz can offer 5 years, $180 million. I believe other suitors are limited to 4 years, $132 million.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Agree with all of this, but it's becoming less clear what the next move should be. There isn't a Durant to pitch this offseason. They are getting close to the point where they have more assets than guys they can play and there isn't an obvious guy to trade for. There's ways to make the team better but no clear path to the Cleveland/Golden State/San Antonio level.
I agree that FA has never been the way to rebuild in Boston. Horford was a nice complimentary piece but not the type of player you want to have to max out to acquire however with our cap structure it was a no-brainer. The trade front is much more complicated and Ainge continues to maintain flexibility with both Amir's contract last season and Zeller's set up with team options for this summer that can also be utilized as valuable expiring deals in a trade. This has always been Ainge's bread and butter option in rebuilding as he carried the Ratliff deal on the books to help facilitate the KG blockbuster that could not have occurred without it.

I disagree that we have more assets than guys that can play. This summer we'll lose Amir and Zeller in our Top-11 while gaining Zizic. Yabu will also likely come over however I wouldn't expect him to crack that 11. The only draft pick in 2017 to expect to make the Top-11 would be with the Nets pick. We need to UPGRADE each of these roster slots but in no way are we overloaded with players.

In the backcourt decisions will need to be made soon on Isaiah, Bradley, and Smart. Who stays? Who is moved and for what? If we are fortunate enough to land Fultz or Ball than we have some fantastic trade opportunities with one (or more) of those three rather than paying them the amount of money required for them to remain. The value in this new CBA is tied into receiving on-court production with rotation minutes from those on their initial contract.
 

gammoseditor

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I see a backlog of guys playing PG-SF. I expect the BK pick to be in that range. That leaves us with Isaiah, Bradley, Crowder, Smart, BK pick, and Brown. I'm less optimistic that we will have fantastic trade opportunities with these guys. Most guys available would fill those slots as well.

But going back to your original point that I agree with, "Every move he makes it to put us closer to a championship team." Danny has done a great job to this point. I honestly have no idea where he goes from here. The best case I can think of is adding both Blake Griffin and Jimmy Butler. That's extraordinarily unlikely and depending on who we give up might still leave us short.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I see a backlog of guys playing PG-SF. I expect the BK pick to be in that range. That leaves us with Isaiah, Bradley, Crowder, Smart, BK pick, and Brown. I'm less optimistic that we will have fantastic trade opportunities with these guys. Most guys available would fill those slots as well.

But going back to your original point that I agree with, "Every move he makes it to put us closer to a championship team." Danny has done a great job to this point. I honestly have no idea where he goes from here. The best case I can think of is adding both Blake Griffin and Jimmy Butler. That's extraordinarily unlikely and depending on who we give up might still leave us short.
The thing is that this backlog will be alleviated by the decisions on who to pay and who to move. We aren't going to be extending Isaiah, Avery, AND Smart. Crowder is useful in a full time role only until Jaylen is ready to assume his starting spot. I don't ever see him as a piece of our future championship team as he doesn't figure to age well being undersized for his position (much like Isaiah down the road). So yes we have depth, which is a good thing, but it isn't like we've got 3 All-Stars fighting for two positions......every single one of them can be moved prior to extending.

As far as where Ainge is going. If nothing develops on the FA or trade front we could do much worse than adding THREE Top-3 draft picks in three consecutive years to a 50-win team with a workmanlike culture. This could set us up for the next 12-15 years!
 

gammoseditor

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The thing is that this backlog will be alleviated by the decisions on who to pay and who to move. We aren't going to be extending Isaiah, Avery, AND Smart. Crowder is useful in a full time role only until Jaylen is ready to assume his starting spot. I don't ever see him as a piece of our future championship team as he doesn't figure to age well being undersized for his position (much like Isaiah down the road). So yes we have depth, which is a good thing, but it isn't like we've got 3 All-Stars fighting for two positions......every single one of them can be moved prior to extending.

As far as where Ainge is going. If nothing develops on the FA or trade front we could do much worse than adding THREE Top-3 draft picks in three consecutive years to a 50-win team with a workmanlike culture. This could set us up for the next 12-15 years!
Yup, but Ainge may need to decide by this offseason who to move. In making that decision he needs to decide if they're trying to win now or trying to win in 4-5 years. The pressure is going to be to win now. It's not clear that's possible.
 

Swedgin

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Yup, but Ainge may need to decide by this offseason who to move. In making that decision he needs to decide if they're trying to win now or trying to win in 4-5 years. The pressure is going to be to win now. It's not clear that's possible.
Not necessarily. The Celtics do not have to decide on IT, Bradley or Smart until next off season. A lot can change in the NBA in a year. More time, means more and better information when you make a decision. Granted that improved information and retained flexibility comes at cost, in that you run the risk of losing assets via free agency and getting nothing in return. I want the Celtics to run that risk.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Crowder is the guy I've got a close eye on for the summer. Shooting over 40% from 3, but doesn't provide great rebounding or any passing/slashing/general playmaking. His defense is fine. But the contract is GREAT, and his future replacement is already on the roster, plus Hayward potentially on the market and guys like Jackson and Tatum available in the draft. Could become very movable very quickly amidst the right combination of moves.