NBA trade season

DJnVa

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Olowokandi got a 3 year deal in free agency. Let's see Bennett pull that off.
It took Bennett until his 33rd professional game before he scored in double digits. That has to be a record for a #1 draft choice, no?

He was also 1 for 21 from the field in his first 7 games.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I imagine a deal for Millsap would at least include one of Brown, Crowder, Bradley, or a BKN pick - sacrificing either our best defensive players or the future. For Millsap I don't think I do it.

I don't think I do it for anyone not named Cousins.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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I don't think a Millsap deal includes any of those assets.

My guess is Amir's contract and a non-Brooklyn first. Rozier as potential sweetener, Olynyk if the C's really want to blow them away.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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For a 31 year old unrestricted free agent? They know he's not part of the next iteration of the Hawks. Maybe they ask for the package you suggested, but there's not a single reasonable person who thinks that's the market, so their options are basically limited to get some return or get no return.
 

moondog80

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I don't think a Millsap deal includes any of those assets.

My guess is Amir's contract and a non-Brooklyn first. Rozier as potential sweetener, Olynyk if the C's really want to blow them away.
I'd go as high as Smart (assuming that's considered an upgrade).
 

Light-Tower-Power

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For a 31 year old unrestricted free agent? They know he's not part of the next iteration of the Hawks. Maybe they ask for the package you suggested, but there's not a single reasonable person who thinks that's the market, so their options are basically limited to get some return or get no return.
No I agree that his market as a 31 y.o. unrestricted FA isn't worth a plus package, and what you suggested is probably all I would like to see given up as well. It's just whether or not ATL would take it - or if there is another team willing to give more.
 

BigSoxFan

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I can't imagine many other teams could or would be willing to top what Boston would be willing to offer. For me, I would go Smart or Rozier/Memphis pick/filler. My guess is that they'd want to snag one of Zizic or Yabusele.
 

CreedBratton

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I don't think a Millsap deal includes any of those assets.

My guess is Amir's contract and a non-Brooklyn first. Rozier as potential sweetener, Olynyk if the C's really want to blow them away.
I would pack all their bags and sprint then to Atlanta. That would be a massive steal.

I think Millsap is arguably the most underrated player in the league. He gets you to the east finals and an cavs injury away from beating them.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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I would pack all their bags and sprint then to Atlanta. That would be a massive steal.

I think Millsap is arguably the most underrated player in the league. He gets you to the east finals and an cavs injury away from beating them.
Would it be a steal? It seems in line with what the market pretty much always is for these sorts of rentals.
 

sox311

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That's what she said.
It's amazing the difference in opinions on what it would take to get Milsap and how he will improve the Cs.

Rasheed Wallace as a 29 year old coming up on free agency netted the 17th over all pick and filler. That is as close a comparison there is for Milsap. Milsap today would fetch more than that, but not a Brooklyn pick or Jaylen Brown.

And who replaces what Amir does when he is moved?
 

Swedgin

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It's amazing the difference in opinions on what it would take to get Milsap and how he will improve the Cs.

Rasheed Wallace as a 29 year old coming up on free agency netted the 17th over all pick and filler. That is as close a comparison there is for Milsap. Milsap today would fetch more than that, but not a Brooklyn pick or Jaylen Brown.

And who replaces what Amir does when he is moved?
Wallace's reputation and the Jailblazer's stench played a role in depressing the return relative to his talent, but you're right he is the closest comp.

Toronto is an obvious destination for Millsap and they should be much more motivated than the Celtics to get a deal done now. The fit is perfect and the Raps window is much smaller. Hard to imagine Lowry or Derozan playing better than they are right now. However, Toronto does not have any asset that even approaches a Brooklyn pick in terms of value. I assume they would build a package around either Ross or Powell and a pick or two. If you want Millsap in green I think that is the type of package you need to match/beat. Obviously, Millsap also has a role to play in where he goes.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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I can't imagine many other teams could or would be willing to top what Boston would be willing to offer. For me, I would go Smart or Rozier/Memphis pick/filler. My guess is that they'd want to snag one of Zizic or Yabusele.
I think you're pretty close with that offer. I'd try to do something like Amir/Jerebko/Rozier/Zizic or Yabu/MEM 1st or C's '18 1st for Milsap and Sefolosha.

I can't see anyone giving up anything close to the value of a Brooklyn pick for Milsap. Doing a deal without Sefolosha (or another bench piece) leaves the C's bench really thin, so that's why I included him in the deal. I guess they could do something like Milsap for Amir, Rozier, Young and Yabu/Zizic without hurting the depth too much, but that offer looks a little light.

Milsap would be a great fit for the C's. IT/Bradley/Crowder/Milsap/Horford is a very well rounded starting 5 and the bench still has Smart, Olynyk, Brown, Zeller.

I don't know if that's good enough to beat CLE or GS/SA out west, but I'd take the chance. It's not like the trade is mortgaging the future. They'd still have the Brooklyn picks and Brown to build around.
 

Dahabenzapple2

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I am NO expert by any stretch and I just started getting back to watching the Celtics as I have a very hard time watching a team that has NO chance to compete with the real good teams.

But I have followed the discussion here for many years and value the input of the long-term highly committed followers of the NBA.

My view is that this team is now finally a step above of where they have been hovering the last couple of years due to a few factors:

1) Al Horford is a fine professional who has an excellent feel and is a positive veteran addition to a team that simply hasn't had one since the Big Three.

2) Isaiah Thomas is at his very peak (which we would think would have 2-3 years before some sort of decline). He has progressed from a valuable offensive force with defensive liabilities to a transcendent offensive player now masks his height (or lack thereof) driven the defensive liabilities.

3) Marcus Smart despite having huge offensive limitations is a defensive force

4) Avery Bradley, to my surprise, has become almost an All-Star with his continuous offensive improvement

I would NEVER EVER trade Jaylen Brown for Paul Millsap despite the hope (dream? pipe-dream?) that he might make the C's competitive against the Cavs this year. Not enough of a defensive force - sure he is a huge upgrade from Amir Johnson but what I see from Jaylen Brown in obviously very limited minutes is what I think some of you might see - a potential game changing force 3-4 years down the road. Last night except for 1 turnover, he looked like the real deal
 

nighthob

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You want to give up Rozier, Yabusele, a 1st, Bradley, Zeller and Crowder for Blake Griffin? Or am I reading this wrong? Because that seems like a horrid overpay.
I wouldn't have a problem giving up a collection of roleplayers for a superstar that fits Boston's needs. Because you can always replace the roleplayers. But, as I said, that's the only context in which I might consider it, because Millsap's a free agent that's going to cost a lot of coin to re-sign, and for his declining years at that. I'd much rather target Hayward or Durant this summer and go from there.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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I wouldn't have a problem giving up a collection of roleplayers for a superstar that fits Boston's needs. Because you can always replace the roleplayers. But, as I said, that's the only context in which I might consider it, because Millsap's a free agent that's going to cost a lot of coin to re-sign, and for his declining years at that. I'd much rather target Hayward or Durant this summer and go from there.
Oh, you like Durant more than Millsap?
 

amfox1

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I would go along with an Amir/Jerebko/Rozier/BOS 2018 1st for Millsap trade. My ultimate endgame would be to sign Hayward, assuming Durant is not available.

2016-17 rotation
C/PF - Horford, Millsap, Olynyk, Zeller
SF - Crowder, Brown, [trade deadline vet]
G - Thomas, Bradley, Smart, [trade deadline vet]
(out of the rotation: Green, Young, Jackson, Mickey)
(stashed elsewhere: Zizic, Yabusele, Nader)


2017-18 rotation
C/PF - Horford, Crowder, [FA backup C/PF], Olynyk
SF - Hayward, Brown, Nader
G - Thomas, Bradley, Smart, #1 pick
(out of the rotation: Zizic, Yabusele, Jackson, #35 pick)
(gone; Millsap, Zeller, Young, Green, Mickey, trade deadline vets)
 

moondog80

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Oh, you like Durant more than Millsap?

I don't think Durant is coming here, but this is from the piece about him on ESPN right now:

Durant meets with Boston for four hours. And, in the aftermath, many sources around the NBA come to believe this: Boston might have landed Durant had the Warriors won the Finals -- as Durant wouldn't want to have looked like a man hopping aboard a dynasty.
 

the moops

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So you are trading those assets just to win one, maybe 2 playoff series this year?

That seems foolish. Only way you trade for Millsap, is if you think he is apart of your team after this year.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Oh, you like Durant more than Millsap?
One more question mark and you are going to need a timeout son.

If you think there is a chance that Durant bails GS, I will throw one other thought out there. Steph Curry is a UFA after the season as well. Its highly unlikely that either he or Durant will leave but of the two, I would put Curry's departure as a higher, albeit still very small, probability outcome. There have been rumblings that he is frustrated with his usage but nothing concrete.

Back to trades, if I am Ainge I look hard at Millsap now because this may be as close as the Cs get for a few years. I am not suggesting they deal Brown and I get that people love his game. But the NBA is littered with guys like Brown - wings who have tantalizing skill sets, yet never put it all together.

That said, if you can get him without dealing Brown, then the trade becomes a lot more compelling.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I wouldn't have a problem giving up a collection of roleplayers for a superstar that fits Boston's needs. Because you can always replace the roleplayers. But, as I said, that's the only context in which I might consider it, because Millsap's a free agent that's going to cost a lot of coin to re-sign, and for his declining years at that. I'd much rather target Hayward or Durant this summer and go from there.
Griffin is likely a FA as well (same opt out) and he's an injury prone one at that. I understand role players can be replaced, but I think it'd be dumb to give up that much for a rental - a partial one at that, we still don't know when he will be back - coming off another knee surgery that will be looking at a max contract. Your concern about Millsap decline are no more or less worrisome than concern about Griffin's health.

I don't see what relevance your comments about Hayward or Durant have to this discussion.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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So you are trading those assets just to win one, maybe 2 playoff series this year?

That seems foolish. Only way you trade for Millsap, is if you think he is apart of your team after this year.
If the assets are Rozier, a MEM/LAC/BOS 1st and maybe one of Yabu or Zizic, yeah, I'm okay with the C's moving them for Milsap. That's not mortgaging the future. IT/Bradley/Crowder/Milsap/Horford can get you to the eastern conference finals and put up a legit challenge to Cleveland. And Brown and the Brooklyn picks continue the infusion of talented young players.

If you're talking about Brown or either of the Brooklyn picks in exchange for Milsap, then yeah, I'm with you. But I don't think Danny is willing to talk about those pieces for an aging player who's likely to opt out at the end of the year. And if he opts out and leaves, the C's would still have the flexibility to sign someone like Hayward.
 

Eddie Jurak

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If the assets are Rozier, a MEM/LAC/BOS 1st and maybe one of Yabu or Zizic, yeah, I'm okay with the C's moving them for Milsap. That's not mortgaging the future. IT/Bradley/Crowder/Milsap/Horford can get you to the eastern conference finals and put up a legit challenge to Cleveland. And Brown and the Brooklyn picks continue the infusion of talented young players.

If you're talking about Brown or either of the Brooklyn picks in exchange for Milsap, then yeah, I'm with you. But I don't think Danny is willing to talk about those pieces for an aging player who's likely to opt out at the end of the year. And if he opts out and leaves, the C's would still have the flexibility to sign someone like Hayward.
Agree. If ATL insists on a Brooklyn pick we can throw in James Young. :)
 

nighthob

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Oh, you like Durant more than Millsap?
I would prefer that Boston get their second star in free agency rather than expending assets now, yes. If they can't get their star in free agency, then it's time to start looking at what's available on the trade markets.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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I would prefer that Boston get their second star in free agency rather than expending assets now, yes. If they can't get their star in free agency, then it's time to start looking at what's available on the trade markets.
The only assets that really matter are the Brooklyn picks and the players they draft with said picks. The later firsts, while nice enough, are the exact sort of asset you should be willing to move for a guy like Millsap. Doing so does not alter the longterm plans in any way, nor does it limit the Celtics ability to go after Hayward or Durant (for what it's worth, I feel like this forum should just go ahead and acknowledge any discussion of this is a waste of time. They had their shot, they came close, it didn't happen.).

If you can add Millsap for a package along the lines of Rozier (a guy who is currently a fringe rotation player in the NBA) and a late first round pick there's very little downside. That puts the Celtics an injury or poor series from a key Cavs player away from the NBA finals. Here are the guys the C's have taken in the latter third of the first round:

Delonte West
Tony Allen
MarShon Brooks
Jared Sullinger
Fab Melo
RJ Hunter
Ante Zizic

Some nice players? Sure. Anybody with the upside that should give you pause about giving up their rights for Paul Millsap? Nope.
 

cheech13

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Everyone keeps calling Millsap a rental and that's not necessarily true. Yes, he does plan to opt out this summer but only because he wants to secure a long-term deal under the new cap environment. Atlanta is rightfully nervous about this because they are a team on the downswing. Losing Millsap would be a blow, but resigning him for rebuilding years isn't exactly appealing either. An acquiring team should be looking at Millsap as a piece that is part of their core over the next couple years.

The calculus on acquisition is not what he costs for three months, but whether he's better than what you can acquire in free agency and whether the possession of his Bird rights is worth whatever assets you have to give up. He's a real piece that teams like Toronto, Denver and Portland should be going after. Most teams never get the opportunity to acquire a player as good as Millsap.
 

Sam Ray Not

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That puts the Celtics an injury or poor series from a key Cavs player away from the NBA finals.
Also worth noting that Mozgov gone, Birdman done for the season, and Tristan Thompson (6'-7.5" in bare feet) as their only real C, the Cavs are one of the teams in the league you can play small against with relative impunity. Both Horford and Millsap are big and rugged enough to hang with TT.

I'd definitely give a "finishing five" of IT-Bradley-Crowder-Millsap-Horford a puncher's chance against the Cavs.

Whether it's worth parting with Brown or one of the two Brooklyn picks ... tougher call. I imagine it'd be the least painful to part with the 2018 pick, as by the time that player starts being productive, Horford will likely be past his prime and IT will be nearing the end of his. There's also no guarantee the 2017-18 Nets will be quite as bad as this year's bunch, though that certainly looks like a good bet now. In any case: between Brown and a (likely) top 4 pick this season, you'd still have a nice core of young talent to groom.
 

Big John

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The only assets that really matter are the Brooklyn picks and the players they draft with said picks. The later firsts, while nice enough, are the exact sort of asset you should be willing to move for a guy like Millsap....
The Celtics won't have roster spots for the players selected with those late first round picks unless Ainge blows the Brooklyn picks. They've got Yabusele and Zizic stashed, and both have been playing extremely well. Add the two lottery players selected with the Brooklyn picks, plus Jaylen Brown, and that makes five. I think it is wildly unlikely that a guy picked in the 20s will be better than any of those five, and that doesn't even take Nader and Demetrius Jackson into account, both of whom are tearing up the D-league.

So trade the late first round picks for Millsap or whomever. No great loss.

As for Butler, I don't think he's worth a Brooklyn pick. The 2017 pick is pure gold, because even if the lottery balls are unkind you have a shot at a legitimate all-star prospect.
 

Koufax

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What late first round picks are you talking about? 2018 & 2019?
 

cheech13

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As for Butler, I don't think he's worth a Brooklyn pick. The 2017 pick is pure gold, because even if the lottery balls are unkind you have a shot at a legitimate all-star prospect.
This makes no sense. You can't trade the pick because of the chance that player becomes an All-Star? Jimmy Butler is an All-Star in his prime on a below market deal RIGHT NOW. The likelihood of that pick becoming something as good as Butler isn't that great.
 

RedOctober3829

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Ok, you (in the generic MBPC sense) don't want Milsap because of cost or age or what cheech points out. Fine. But the Cs have to be in on Butler and it is going to cost. A lot.
I'd much rather trade for Butler than Millsap. Butler fits a specific need(wing scorer), is coming into his prime, and is signed long-term. This is somebody you give up the Brooklyn pick for.
 

amfox1

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As for Butler, I don't think he's worth a Brooklyn pick. The 2017 pick is pure gold, because even if the lottery balls are unkind you have a shot at a legitimate all-star prospect.
I think we go back to a trade proposal centered around Rozier, Bradley, Jerebko and non-Brooklyn draft picks (two of 2017 MIN (currently #35)/2018 BOS 1st/2019 MEM 1st). Trade works for cap purposes.
 

the moops

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That 2017 pick is certainly the most intriguing, and I doubt you can get Butler without it, but I would be inclined to offer Brown, BRK 2018, and MEM 2019 as the core pieces.
 

the moops

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I think we go back to a trade proposal centered around Rozier, Bradley, Jerebko and non-Brooklyn draft picks (two of 2017 MIN (currently #35)/2018 BOS 1st/2019 MEM 1st). Trade works for cap purposes.
This doesn't even get you close to getting Butler. Like not even a call back to discuss
 

Devizier

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Ok, you (in the generic MBPC sense) don't want Milsap because of cost or age or what cheech points out. Fine. But the Cs have to be in on Butler and it is going to cost. A lot.
Both makes more sense than one or the other. It's possible, too, with the assets that the Celtics have.

It's a big gamble, though.
 

cheech13

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I think we go back to a trade proposal centered around Rozier, Bradley, Jerebko and non-Brooklyn draft picks (two of 2017 MIN (currently #35)/2018 BOS 1st/2019 MEM 1st). Trade works for cap purposes.
If that's your offer for Butler then you don't really want Butler.
 

heavyde050

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17 and 18 BKN picks have to be in play for Butler.
Not the 17 pick.
I really like Butler but he is already 27 and I don't think he is the missing piece for a championship.
I think I would only move the 17 pick for guys that aren't available (Westbrook, Anthony Davis, KAT, Embiid, Giannis, etc.)
I realize Westbrook just turned 28 but he is on a completely different level than Butler.
 

DannyDarwinism

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If Butler is traded, the Celtics have to be the destination, it just makes too much sense for both sides. I think Crowder, Amir and this year's Nets pick would have to going, along with Rozier + a non-BK pick or two, though if Danny could work something around Crowder, Brown and BK2018 ++, he'd deserve GM of the year. Butler's contract would provide great flexibility.
 

BigSoxFan

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We need to tamper with Gordon Hayward to get an idea on the viability of signing him. Butler is obviously the superior player but it wouldn't make sense to trade a boatload for Butler if Hayward can be had this summer for just cash.

Realistically, Boston and Chicago are great trading partners if Butler really is available. They will certain ask for a package around Brown, a Brooklyn pick, and probably one of the eurostashes. And Danny will try to keep the Brooklyn picks out by offering up some combination of Smart or Rozier, Memphis/Clippers picks, etc. I'd also look into seeing if we could make it a 3 team trade to see if Crowder could be spun for additional assets.

Still need an impact 4/5 so we can't empty the cupboard for Butler. The possibilities really are endless for Ainge.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Just don't get duped into negotiating against yourself because you have two assets nobody else can offer (lotto picks that won't automatically depreciate as a result of the trade).