NBA Trade Deadline Discussion

[southshoresoxfan]

At this point, the C's have a ton of assets lined up, they do not need to maximize his value. He's walking next year.  I don't think Danny's going to max contract him after next season.  This is probably your best bet right now to land a young player a pick for him.  Maybe in the off-season you can get a deal for him, but how many wins is he going to get you that you really don't want?  C's already have 10 1st rd picks in the next 5 drafts, a 10mil trade exception they can still use early in the next off-season, a bunch of different chips/expirings/etc.  They don't need the moon for him, and keeping him only costs you draft positions.
 
I guess one way to look at accepting a slightly lesser package now for Rondo rather than wait could be the difference between Embiid, Parker, Wiggins and Vonleh Gordon Ennis.
 
Is that difference worth one less pick, or a tick less of a caliber player? I'd argue it is.  

 

[ChillyMac]

Trade Machine accepts following: Boston gets Asik, Lin, Parsons and a first round pick
Houston gets Rondo and Wallace

Is this something both Ainge and Morey would do?

 

[southshoresoxfan]

Trade Machine accepts following: Boston gets Asik, Lin, Parsons and a first round pick
Houston gets Rondo and Wallace

Is this something both Ainge and Morey would do?

Ainge yes. Morey no. Hes not giving danny a first for the privilidge of gerald wallaces shitty contract

 

[bowiac]

I'm not Morey, but I'd be floored if the Rockets would seriously consider that.

Wallace is a bad contract, while Lin and Asik still both have real (albeit limited) trade value.

 

[bowiac]

I think the kind of deal Morey would do would be a first rounder this year, a contingent first later, Beverley, and Donatas Motiejūnas.

Even that might be a stretch.

 

[southshoresoxfan]

I think the kind of deal Morey would do would be a first rounder this year, a contingent first later, Beverley, and Donatas Motiejūnas.

Even that might be a stretch.

 
I love me some Motiejunas. Yes please.

 

[Brickowski]

Ainge isn't going to take that, obviously, and will wait (as he probably should) until draft night to trade Rondo.  Then he will have more certainty as to what he needs in return.  Meanwhile, Morey has burned the first year of Dwight's 4-year deal and of Harden's 5-year deal without a chance of sniffing the NBA finals, and his owners have to shell out $28M next year for Asik and Lin.

 

[southshoresoxfan]

Ainge isn't going to take that, obviously, and will wait (as he probably should) until draft night to trade Rondo.  Then he will have more certainty as to what he needs in return.  Meanwhile, Morey has burned the first year of Dwight's 4-year deal and of Harden's 5-year deal without a chance of sniffing the NBA finals, and his owners have to shell out $28M next year for Asik and Lin.

How irrational is ur view of rajon rondo? Two firsts beverly and montejunas isnt enough for you???

 

[Brickowski]

No it isn't, because Ainge isn't under any pressure to do something now.  And the firsts will be in the 20's.  Meh.  Early second rounders are more valuable because you don't have to give a guaranteed contract.  Frankly I'd rather have the two second rounders from the Knicks that Morey owns than one of the first rounders.
 
Rondo is what he is.  The disadvantage of keeping Rondo until the end of the year is that they may win a few more games.  But I'm sure Stevens can figure out a way to lose, even with Rondo.  He won't play back to backs, he'll experience "soreness" and sit out some games, etc. etc.  He'll play just enough to be showcased.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I think the kind of deal Morey would do would be a first rounder this year, a contingent first later, Beverley, and Donatas Motiejūnas.

Even that might be a stretch.

Would have to add Asik to that to make Salary work, but that was my idea as well for best trade possible with HOU.
 
Unless we want to get crazy and combine rumors for a 3 way deal....
 
BOS
 
Out:
Rondo
Bass
Humphries
Wallace
 
IN:
Asik
Beverley
Montaejunas
Hardaway JR
Stoudamire
2014 HOU 1st
2016 HOU 1st (top 8 protected say?)
2018 NYK 1st
 
 
HOU:
OUT:
Asik
Lin
Beverley
Montaejaunajdkajfgbsalkdhbxsla
2014 1st
2016 1st
 
IN:
Rondo
Bass
Shumpert
Udrih
 
 
NYK
OUT:
Stoudamire
Hardaway Jr
Shumpert
Udrih
2018 1st
 
IN:
Humphries
Wallace
Lin
 
Probably an overpay by NYK, but I work on the assumption that they are idiots who will mortgage the future further to win now and convince Melo to stay.
Most fun part beyond the sheer scale and crazy of it, it that ESPN's Hollinger projections say it makes all 3 teams significantly worse.

 

[Devizier]

I didn't realize that Motiejunas is an NBA rotation player. There's no good fit for a Houston trade as far as I can see.

 

[MakMan44]

How would that make the Rockets worse? I think that's actually a pretty good deal for them.

 

[bowiac]

I didn't realize that Motiejunas is an NBA rotation player. There's no good fit for a Houston trade as far as I can see.

I agree. I think nothing happens.

 

[soxhop411]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA  now
Golden State expected to send Kent Bazemore and MarShon Brooks to the Lakers for Blake, league source tells Yahoo Sports
 
 
https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/436326480893980672

 

[thehitcat]

Wait I thought if a guy was traded once in a season then the only way you could trade him a second time was if he was alone not packaged.  Isn't that the deal with Bayless?  I read that somewhere, ESPN Celts blog maybe?  Is there something I don't know that makes MarShon special in this case?
 
Here it is under "Expiring Deals" http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4710943/option-route-cs-can-be-choosy#more

 

[PedroKsBambino]

It might fall under the rarely used "if not one person in the entire league cares, we'll let it go through" exception.

 

[ishmael]

Wait I thought if a guy was traded once in a season then the only way you could trade him a second time was if he was alone not packaged.  Isn't that the deal with Bayless?  I read that somewhere, ESPN Celts blog maybe?  Is there something I don't know that makes MarShon special in this case?
 
Here it is under "Expiring Deals" http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4710943/option-route-cs-can-be-choosy#more

That is the rule. My guess is that the Warriors either have a trade exception or some way to push this through as two simultaneous trades, as opposed to aggregating the salaries (which is prohibited for 60 days).

 

[radsoxfan]

 
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA  now
Golden State expected to send Kent Bazemore and MarShon Brooks to the Lakers for Blake, league source tells Yahoo Sports
 
 
https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/436326480893980672
 

 
 
I guess the Jordan Crawford as PG off the bench idea didn't work out too well....

 

[mcpickl]

Wait I thought if a guy was traded once in a season then the only way you could trade him a second time was if he was alone not packaged.  Isn't that the deal with Bayless?  I read that somewhere, ESPN Celts blog maybe?  Is there something I don't know that makes MarShon special in this case?
 
Here it is under "Expiring Deals" http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4710943/option-route-cs-can-be-choosy#more

You can't, but there are ways around it.
 
If this is the full trade, GS can trade one of Bazemore/Brooks for Blake and use their trade exception from Brandon Rush.
Then trade the other of Bazemore/Brooks to LA with LA using Blakes newly created trade exception(in this scenario, LA would have to send something of value back,like a protected 2nd rounder)
 
NBA rules are wack

 

[thehitcat]

Many thanks all you who understand these rules better than I ever wish to...also yes I agree mcpickl.  
 
PKB that did occur to me as a possible rule, like if every other team in the league just collectively went Meh and waved their hand towards the West Coast the deal could be consummated.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

 
 
I guess the Jordan Crawford as PG off the bench idea didn't work out too well....

Yeah, Ainge won that deal again.  Crawford is a high TOV, high frequency chucker off the Warriors bench.  In other words, he is who we thought he was.
 
In other news, the Warriors bench just got less amusing.  And now I have to root for this to work for the rest of the season...
 

 

[Tangled Up In Red]

It does make the Dubs better.
In a vacuum, I guess that's the point of a trade (I proclaim no knowledge of caps, roster spots, etc).

 

[Brickowski]

According to Peter Vescey, Kevin Love informed the Wolves that he is opting out in 2015 and won't resign with Minnesota.  Flip Saunders denies that the conversation took place, but even if it didn't, you'd have to have your head in the sand to think that Love might stay beyond 2015.
 
Might make for an interesting afternoon.

 

[MakMan44]

According to Peter Vescey, Kevin Love informed the Wolves that he is opting out in 2015 and won't resign with Minnesota.  Flip Saunders denies that the conversation took place, but even if it didn't, you'd have to have your head in the sand to think that Love might stay beyond 2015.
 
Might make for an interesting afternoon.

I doubt it. If they move him, it'll be in the offseason or next trade dead line. 

 

[bowiac]

Spencer Hawes to the Cavs for 2 2nd round picks this seems. That looks like a pure tanking move to me - Hawes isn't great, but is worth more than that.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Quite true, especially when one considers the complete dreck the 76ers have left at center (at least until/unless Noel plays).   They might be checking whether they can add Vitaly Potapenko to start now...

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

Spencer Hawes to the Cavs for 2 2nd round picks this seems. That looks like a pure tanking move to me - Hawes isn't great, but is worth more than that.

 
 Woj says there could be more headed to Philly, but yeah, the Sixers are tanking hard.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

I don't think it's about tanking, at all. Hawes is an expiring contract that Philly has no use for going forward. They got what they could for him before the deadline.If they didn't trade him today, he leaves this off-season for nothing.

 

[Brickowski]

Any word on what's going back to Philly?  I do not believe Cleveland has any TPE's to permit them to take Hawes without shedding salary.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

Philly is now over $11 mil below the salary floor but there isn't really a penalty, they just have to pay their players more to make up the gap.

 

[bowiac]

I don't think it's about tanking, at all. Hawes is an expiring contract that Philly has no use for going forward. They got what they could for him before the deadline.If they didn't trade him today, he leaves this off-season for nothing.

I think this is a nomenclature issue. What you've described here sounds like tanking to me. Normally, you have a use for a good player like Hawes on a cheap contract because you're trying to win games. When you have no interest in winning games, you have no use for the player.

 

[nighthob]

Well, practically speaking, Hawes is going to get a large contract this summer, and isn't a max guy. Unless Philly were really overpaying for him they were going to lose him at season's end regardless. If you know you're losing an asset for nothing, then it's time to cash them in. Given the short term nature of the rental they weren't going to get much in return for him.

 

[DJnVa]

According to Peter Vescey, Kevin Love informed the Wolves that he is opting out in 2015 and won't resign with Minnesota.  Flip Saunders denies that the conversation took place, but even if it didn't, you'd have to have your head in the sand to think that Love might stay beyond 2015.
 
Might make for an interesting afternoon.

 
Peter Vescey is still around?

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

I think this is a nomenclature issue. What you've described here sounds like tanking to me. Normally, you have a use for a good player like Hawes on a cheap contract because you're trying to win games. When you have no interest in winning games, you have no use for the player.

 
But if they'd hung onto him for the second half, and he'd walked away this summer, everybody would criticize them for not capitalizing on an asset when they could. I have a lot of trouble considering something tanking when it's so obviously better for the future of your franchise. Spencer Hawes was leaving either way. It seems unreasonable to expect them to value the 2.5 wins he might be worth during the second half over the chance to find two cheap contributors in the draft.

 

[TroyOLeary]

Depending on what's coming back, Cleveland might shed a little salary next year.  Their only expiring is CJ Miles, so they'd have to throw in somebody else non-expiring.  Miles and Gee for Hawes works.
 
Edit: never mind, shamsports says Gee is unguaranteed next year

 

[bowiac]

I just don't think 2 second round picks qualify as capitalizing on an asset. Those picks are usually available for cash.
 
Again, outside the tanking context, winning games has value. I can't think of an analogous trade I've seen in MLB for instance, but maybe I'm forgetting.

 

[The X Man Cometh]

Philly is crushing it. No compunction. Doing what needs to be done. Respect.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

I just don't think 2 second round picks qualify as capitalizing on an asset. Those picks are usually available for cash.
 
Again, outside the tanking context, winning games has value. I can't think of an analogous trade I've seen in MLB for instance, but maybe I'm forgetting.

 
Seems to me like the smarter franchises have been collecting 2nd round picks lately. If you can hit on them, a la a Chandler Parsons or Lance Stephenson, you can get a lot of mileage out of very low cap figures. Also, I mean, it's 30 games of Spencer Hawes. I'm not sure there's a return coming around that's much better than what they just got back.

 

[bowiac]

 
Seems to me like the smarter franchises have been collecting 2nd round picks lately. If you can hit on them, a la a Chandler Parsons or Lance Stephenson, you can get a lot of mileage out of very low cap figures. Also, I mean, it's 30 games of Spencer Hawes. I'm not sure there's a return coming around that's much better than what they just got back.

I don't doubt the value of 2nd round picks generally. My impression is more that you can buy them for "cash considerations" if there's a guy you like anyways however. Maybe that's changed recently of course.
 
I suppose there's also added value to them being Cleveland and Orlando's 2nd rounders, which are going to be like 32nd and 40th overall.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

 
Seems to me like the smarter franchises have been collecting 2nd round picks lately. If you can hit on them, a la a Chandler Parsons or Lance Stephenson, you can get a lot of mileage out of very low cap figures. Also, I mean, it's 30 games of Spencer Hawes. I'm not sure there's a return coming around that's much better than what they just got back.

 
Right, but they clearly get worse this year in doing so.  That is kind of the definition of tanking, isn't it?

 

[Devizier]

Here's hoping Philly gets done like the '97 Celtics.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

 

 

Steve Bulpett ‏@SteveBHoop

Hearing Celtics will have some smaller "call us back if the bigger things don't work out" options today.

 

[nighthob]

I just don't think 2 second round picks qualify as capitalizing on an asset. Those picks are usually available for cash.
 
Again, outside the tanking context, winning games has value. I can't think of an analogous trade I've seen in MLB for instance, but maybe I'm forgetting.

In fairness the last CBA has changed the calculus on this, very few first round picks have been sold under the new CBA and those early #2s are more valuable than ever. So if Philly is getting the 2014 Orlando #2 and Cleveland's own they're getting a pair of top 40 picks to gamble on sliders. Those picks are how you land guys like Chandler Parsons on hugely favourable deals.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

In fairness the last CBA has changed the calculus on this, very few first round picks have been sold under the new CBA and those early #2s are more valuable than ever. So if Philly is getting the 2014 Orlando #2 and Cleveland's own they're getting a pair of top 40 picks to gamble on sliders. Those picks are how you land guys like Chandler Parsons on hugely favourable deals.

 
Have any been sold? I was trying to figure this out recently. When was the last time a first round pick was traded for cash?

 

[bowiac]

Yeah, if it's true the CBA has reduced teams' willingness to part with 2nd rounders for relatively meager amounts of cash, then sure.

 

[nighthob]

Have any been sold? I was trying to figure this out recently. When was the last time a first round pick was traded for cash?

I couldn't think of any off the top of my head, but I didn't want to say none so opted for the safety play instead. You would think that last year would be the year if any, and I think some late second rounders were moved for cash.

 

[nighthob]

We're aware of that. I just can't think of any of those types of trades for a first under the new CBA.

 

[swingin val]

Philly sports radio reporting a rumor of three way between BOS PHI and HOU

 

[The X Man Cometh]

Philly sports radio reporting a rumor of three way between BOS PHI and HOU

 
Got a source?

 

[Brickowski]

The world has changed under the new CBA.  A team needs decent young cost-controlled players to compete, because the penalties for being over the luxury tax line are so draconian, especially for repeat offenders.  That makes draft picks much more valuable.