This is hilarious. At what point do you just stop? Not going to beat indiana or the heat anyways. Why bother?Grin&MartyBarret said:
NBA Trade Deadline Discussion
- Thread starter Jed Zeppelin
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I have no inside info about what the Rockets think of Parsons, but the guy ranks very high on a number of metrics, and makes under $1M this year and next. He's among the most valuable trade assets in the NBA after the true superstars.BigSoxFan said:
bowiac said:
The Nets truly baffle me. All of this spending has been about announcing themselves as a threat to the Knicks and they're doing so by. . .making all of the same mistakes that have always doomed the Knicks. Trading away their future for washed up big names? Check. Overpaying for players on terrible contracts? Check. Ending up in tax hell with no way to improve your completely mediocre roster? Check. It's like there's something in the water in New York that makes it impossible to run an NBA franchise intelligently. The funniest part about all of this is that if Prok had hired Sam Hinkie or some other metrics driven, forward-thinking GM and announced their plans to become Spurs East, as a long suffering Knicks fan who lives a mile away from the Barclays Center, it would have been very difficult to resist jumping ship. Instead, he's just James Dolan 2, and I know how that movie ends already.
The problem was they were opening a new arena in Brooklyn. In order to keep Deron Williams they had to trade for Joe Johnson. Obviously these were terrible decsions but it's hard to tell your owner that you're going to lose your best player to Dallas and build through the draft when you are opening a new stadium in a new city.
Plus the Gerald Wallace contract, which the Celtics took them off the hook for.The Social Chair said:
bowiac said:
Yep. Though I'd be totally down if if it did... it would run contrary to EVERYTHING we know about Daryl Morey.
Doesn't Harden + Howard + Rondo give you a decent chance at a title (or at least the Finals) this year and next? Isn't that the point of stockpiling assets?
TheRooster said:
The problem is Rondo doesn't make much sense with the players Houston has.
Houston is on a tear because they have a great inside-outside thing going on offense. Take out Parsons and add Rondo and that's gone.
To some degree depends on how much Hou is metrics-driven vs scouting/x and o driven in their decisions. We know that they have a ton of metrics and are very sophisticated about using them, but I don't think we necessarily know degree to which they consider other things (is this the current Red Sox decision making structure, with a significant scouting input, or something else?). Rondo and Parsons are two guys that tend to polarize those different approaches in terms of value.
I'd be pretty surprised if that specific proposal was real; I would not be surprised if Houston decided Rondo is worth more to them than Parsons, though. I'm not sure that I see how the rest of a deal would come together that both sides would want to do (I think Celts would want more, not sure Hou would want to give much more, and also hard to see how other roster pieces end up in right places)
As to fit, I think Houston probably feels a penetrator and distributor is a real gap. They are pretty dependent on Harden creating for them in half-court, and I'm not sure they can win in Western playoffs without someone else creating offense. They also may feel they need a better on-the-ball PG than Lin to play OKC and SA (though Rondo is hit or miss there himself, depending on motivation). They definitely would miss Parsons; I'd imagine they would plan to backfill that with another shooter, because I don't see a pure fit on their roster.
I'd be pretty surprised if that specific proposal was real; I would not be surprised if Houston decided Rondo is worth more to them than Parsons, though. I'm not sure that I see how the rest of a deal would come together that both sides would want to do (I think Celts would want more, not sure Hou would want to give much more, and also hard to see how other roster pieces end up in right places)
As to fit, I think Houston probably feels a penetrator and distributor is a real gap. They are pretty dependent on Harden creating for them in half-court, and I'm not sure they can win in Western playoffs without someone else creating offense. They also may feel they need a better on-the-ball PG than Lin to play OKC and SA (though Rondo is hit or miss there himself, depending on motivation). They definitely would miss Parsons; I'd imagine they would plan to backfill that with another shooter, because I don't see a pure fit on their roster.
Yeah. I think people are underrating Parsons here. I didn't think much of him myself before this year, but he's 6'9", can play the 3 or the 4, is shooting 40% from 3, gets boards, is a decent passer. Given the composition of the Rockets, with Lin and Beverley around, I'm not sure that move improves the Rockets at all, even if Rondo is a better player than Parsons in the abstract.
Isn't part of the problem that the Rockets would need to send out Lin or Asik to make the salaries work? Both of those guys have value in and of themselves, so if you're also asking for picks, that is almost definitely too high.
There'd have to be a third team involved for it to make any sense for the Rockets.
There'd have to be a third team involved for it to make any sense for the Rockets.
Not sure I buy that losing 4 on 3pt going from Parsons to Casspi totally ruins HOU balance. Especially since they gain Rondo's improved efficiency in the elbows which they could use and a much better distributor.
Edit- Asik or Lin have some value alone, combined their dual poison pills probably eliminate all value of and make them a negative.
Edit- Asik or Lin have some value alone, combined their dual poison pills probably eliminate all value of and make them a negative.
Another possibility is that Morey is throwing Ainge a bone here to influence other discussions that are going on.
I doubt if Celtics' ownership would be enamored of a $28M paycheck next year for both Asik and Lin.
This goes both ways. Houston is also betting that Rondo gets good again in such a deal, not just that Casspi can pick up Parsons' slack. Insofar as Houston is making a run now, Rondo issues with back to backs and his FG% are real problems that we're all assuming sort themselves out this year.Cellar-Door said:
This trade idea was a complete fabrication according to my guy. No discussions at all.nighthob said:
bowiac said:
I think the opposite; Parsons looks pretty great by offensive efficiency, and he's a very good three point shooter. However, he's being used in the capacity of supporting player. Nothing (in metrics or scouting) indicates that he's better than average defensively, and he's not really loved by the fancy plus-minus type stats either. I think he's a good player, but a lot of his value evaporates if he's playing for a shitty team like the Celtics.
My issue with a Rondo-Parsons centerpiece trade (I suppose it could work with Rondo-Green for Lin-Parsons-Asik and some combination of picks) is that it doesn't really move the needle for either team. Green's defense is probably a plus for the Rockets (maybe their scouts think he can slow down Durant?) but he's just not a great shooter. Rondo for Lin is another defense-for-offense switch, although one that I feel definitely favors Houston.
On the Celtics' side, they get a bunch of guys who expire next season, the best of whom will need a Jeff Green-like extension before the team is good again. In other words, I hate the deal for the Celtics but can justify it for the Rockets.
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Hearing that Gasol to Suns, if it ever was serious, dying quickly on the vine. PHX "looking at other stuff" now, per source.
This is interesting, if only because we might be Plan B for Phoenix.
@daldridgetntFollow
Hearing that Gasol to Suns, if it ever was serious, dying quickly on the vine. PHX "looking at other stuff" now, per source.
This is interesting, if only because we might be Plan B for Phoenix.
I agree that a lot of that value will vanish, but I think he's pretty important for what the Rockets do. I don't think he's a star either, but I'm not sure Rondo quite deserves all his accolades either.Devizier said:
Lin is a really bad defensive guard; however inconsistent Rondo is as an on-the-ball defender, I'd much prefer going to war with him against Parker or Westbrook than Lin. I'd be surprised if that isn't a material part of any assessment Houston has of such a deal.
I agree with Devizier's post both on this deal, and on it being a bit strange at the macro level especially for Celtics.
I agree with Devizier's post both on this deal, and on it being a bit strange at the macro level especially for Celtics.
From what I've heard, such an offer did occur, and the Rockets think Ainge is being crazy with his demands. That's how this got started - explaining why the Rockets don't think it makes sense for them.ivanvamp said:
Mark Stein saying that Celtics said Parsons would need to be involved and Houston saying they won't deal him---an unsurprising negotiating point from both. Continues to be hard for me to see how rest of the pieces would come together around that, even if they get past the 'must' 'no way' with the headliners.
Asik has to be the salary fill I would assume. Either him or Lin, and I think both teams would rather it was Asik.PedroKsBambino said:
Cellar-Door said:
Right, but thinking about what Houston has supposedly been asking for Asik, I don't think it is likely they would deal he AND Parsons for Rondo. And I don't think the Celtics would be interested in adding in picks to get there (though could be wrong).
Just not seeing it.
Rumors have Celts after Parsons and Hayward...some common traits there. Is there another outside shooting/strong passing wing that is potentially available we might speculate on?
If we really must move Rondo, my preference is to hang onto him until the off-season. If all goes well, he'll progressively improve the more he plays. A few triple-doubles in the last couple weeks of the season would be a nice exclamation point.
It's been stated over and over again that the PG position is loaded through-out the NBA right now. In that case, it's in our best interest for him to separate himself from the pack and convince some NBA GMs that he's a top 5 PG. I suspect a number of them like his profile more than the guys on this board do. He's a "winner", puts up great passing numbers, has a great FG%, and has a good defensive reputation. We'd all love it if he had more range, but he doesn't. Most non-LeBron players have some weaknesses and that's his. His positives significantly out-weigh the negatives.
Trading him now seems like a sell low scenario to me. There aren't a lot of good fits and he's hasn't been putting up his peak performance numbers. Patience.
It's been stated over and over again that the PG position is loaded through-out the NBA right now. In that case, it's in our best interest for him to separate himself from the pack and convince some NBA GMs that he's a top 5 PG. I suspect a number of them like his profile more than the guys on this board do. He's a "winner", puts up great passing numbers, has a great FG%, and has a good defensive reputation. We'd all love it if he had more range, but he doesn't. Most non-LeBron players have some weaknesses and that's his. His positives significantly out-weigh the negatives.
Trading him now seems like a sell low scenario to me. There aren't a lot of good fits and he's hasn't been putting up his peak performance numbers. Patience.
Yeah that is probably why it is stalled. Asik, Beverley, Motnaejunas and picks works too I guess if the Celtics came off Parsons, but I doubt they would.PedroKsBambino said:
Jer said:
I think you are under-rating NBA front offices. They know who Rondo is, his limitations, and his peaks, and a few more weeks of him rounding into shape won't change his value all that much. I guess if a GM isn't sure he won't come back 100 percent, but the history of guys bouncing back from ACLs is pretty good now-a-days, that I don't think you'll upgrade your haul all that much from waiting until the off-season.
A few weeks of Rondo rounding into shape while continuing to shoot 38% from 3 would have a real impact on his trade value. There's a belief out there (which I subscribe to), that having a PG who can't shoot the three creates real spacing issues that usually aren't worth the headache (having Ray Allen obviously alleviates many of those issues of course). I think that's why the offers for Rondo haven't matched expectations - Rondo's value around the league may not match his Sportscenter highlights.
If he can shoot the 3 on the other hand, he looks like a top ~5ish PG.
If he can shoot the 3 on the other hand, he looks like a top ~5ish PG.
bowiac said:
Danny should cook up some bullshit stories and leak them to a few friends in the media about how Rondo spent his entire recovery period just taking threes and working with some shooting mechanics guru. Because otherwise there's really no reason to believe that 38% is anything more than a statistical anomaly given his track record.
southshoresoxfan said:
I disagree. I think one nagging concern with Rondo is that he only looked good when surrounded by the big 3. If he can be dynamic with this supporting cast and maintain that healthy FG%, it will definitely increase his value.
Small sample size... but the last 4 games are encouraging...
[table Rondo by Month]
Jer said:
Even if his value goes up a small tick, its negated by losing a post-season run with him. For example, if the Rockets were going to acquire him, you'll get more now, knowing they will get at a minimum 2 post-season runs with Rondo, where-as if they wait to the off-season, it may well only be one.
Amidst all these Rondo rumors, there hasn't been much of anything even vaguely specific about Bass, which has me even more confident than before that he will be moved. None of the bogus posturing, floating names and prices through the media or anything like that. He's the one guy I'm really praying doesn't get hurt tonight.
southshoresoxfan said:
This goes back to one of my original points. There are no good fits right now. Houston doesn't really have what we need and their GM is too smart to get screwed by Danny. The contenders that could use Rondo don't have sexy assets.
I'm surprised there have been no rumors about Humphries. Decent player, expiring contract. Humphries for Okafor and a late first round pick would work for Phoenix now that Gasol appears to be off the table..
Brickowski said:
If you're Phoenix how optimistic are you that Humphries changes how far you get in the playoffs this year, though? Gasol really impacts their ability to win a series...Humphries is not that guy.
If you're, say, Miami or maybe SA you might feel Humphries matters this year, but I don't know how much he really changes for Phoenix
Well, Okafor isn't going to change a damn thing, and I'm not sure what their other options are at this point. Everyone was talking about what a great trade chip Okafor's expiring (and insured) contract was; it would be curious to see the deadline pass with Okafor still there.
Brickowski said:
Right, but you propose them sending a first. Keeping Okafor basically costs them nothing (other than opportunity costs). So for them to deal him AND a pick, they gotta actually get better. And if it's acquiring a guy who will be a FA, they need to do better in this year's playoffs pretty much, right?
Humphries does make them better, but he probably doesn't get them past the first round, so maybe they do stand pat.